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Old 22-12-2012, 10:26 PM   #61
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All I was trying to say is that rejecting the Abrahamic god does not make one an atheist. Whether pagans call themselves atheists or not really is irrelevant.
Then we're in agreement on this point.

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The point I was trying to make, which you seem unable to grasp, is that atheism is simply a disbelief in gods.
Interesting.. I've already stated the same thing.

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Originally Posted by selig
Other than that atheists are free to believe in anything they like.
The point I was making, "which you seem unable to grasp".. Is that there's an apparent contradiction when an atheist believes in "souls/spirituality/ghosts" while denying the existence of a "supreme ultimate reality/underlying all pervading spirit or consciousness within the universe? ie 'God'"

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Since you're now using pseudo-science to play semantics, and you appear to be arguing for the sake of it, I'm going to leave this debate because I don't see the point in banging my head against a brick wall.
Oh please.. There was no pseudo-science there. I won't even pretend that was a scientific statement. It was just a statement. First of all, I'VE been saying that it's semantics.. that's the whole point..

Your arrogance is laughable considering you agree with me in your first two statements & don't even realize it.
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Old 22-12-2012, 10:27 PM   #62
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Lightbulb They want to be God

If you believe in souls then you believe in creationism, in some way or another you believe that the spiritual created the material.

We are fragile beings. Put your hand on your chest and feel your heartbeat. If that beat stops for too long it is over. Where is your infinite power then? You can replace God with Self but it leads to nowhere. Let's not take the arrogant and ignorant stance that we are God, we did not create this universe. We are not omniscient. People experience bliss during their meditation and then compare it to their normal state and foolishly think they are God.
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Old 22-12-2012, 10:29 PM   #63
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I mean.. how does an atheist justify belief in a soul/spirituality/ghosts without believing in a supreme ultimate reality/underlying all pervading spirit or consciousness within the universe? ie 'God'?
Thank you for that.

Obviously, logically if there is an immortal soul there is a God.
Exactly right. There's no other explanation unless they're trying to redefine "God" into something that it isn't/never was.
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Old 22-12-2012, 10:30 PM   #64
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If you believe in souls then you believe in creationism, in some way or another you believe that the spiritual created the material.

We are fragile beings. Put your hand on your chest and feel your heartbeat. If that beat stops for too long it is over. Where is your infinite power then? You can replace God with Self but it leads to nowhere. Let's not take the arrogant and ignorant stance that we are God, we did not create this universe. We are not omniscient. People experience bliss during their meditation and then compare it to their normal state and foolishly think they are God.
I don't think I'm god. I don't think there is a god. If you disagree prove me otherwise.
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Old 22-12-2012, 11:20 PM   #65
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If you believe in souls then you believe in creationism,
only in a world where 1+1-3.
i believe in a soul, or more correctly, spiritual bodies.
i believe there is a creative force in the universe, who is most certainly not your yhwh.
i accept evolution as fact, and the story of genesis creation as pure myth.

don't you hate it when the real world clashes with your fantasies?.
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Old 22-12-2012, 11:23 PM   #66
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Then we're in agreement on this point
Then you were simply arguing for the sake of it.

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Interesting.. I've already stated the same thing.
See above.

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The point I was making, "which you seem unable to grasp".. Is that there's an apparent contradiction when an atheist believes in "souls/spirituality/ghosts" while denying the existence of a "supreme ultimate reality/underlying all pervading spirit or consciousness within the universe? ie 'God'"
A ghost is not a deity so an atheist is able to believe in them if they wish.

Let us imagine for a moment that an atheist sees what they believe is a ghost, why does that prove god exists? All it proves (subjectively) is that ghosts exist, to tack anything else onto it is pure speculation.

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Oh please.. There was no pseudo-science there. I won't even pretend that was a scientific statement. It was just a statement. First of all, I'VE been saying that it's semantics.. that's the whole point..
If pretending that an atom being 99.9% empty space somehow validates the idea that the spirit world exists isn't pseudo-science then I clearly don't know what pseudo-science is.

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Old 23-12-2012, 09:18 AM   #67
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only in a world where 1+1-3.
i believe in a soul, or more correctly, spiritual bodies.
i believe there is a creative force in the universe, who is most certainly not your yhwh.
i accept evolution as fact, and the story of genesis creation as pure myth.

don't you hate it when the real world clashes with your fantasies?.
You contradict yourself.

Creationism does not equate Genesis. If you believe in souls and ''a creative force'' you are a creationist.
As usual you cherry pick a line and ignore what was said afterwards.

Of course there are different types of creationism:
.

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Old 23-12-2012, 10:43 AM   #68
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Atheism for most people is a comfort myth that replaces an uncertainty that must be addressed by thinking, for a certainty that can be addressed with dogma. Atheism is the worldview of the lazy. It requires little though, no work and imposes no burden of responsibility.

Atheism, like all shallow and essentially dumb philosophies, is popular with two sectors of society: the masses and the intelligentsia. The intelligentsia are that sector of society that has intelligence but no power and seeks power by exploiting its intelligence. The problem with the intelligentsia is that it does not represent top flight intelligence, the type of intelligence possessed by an Enoch Powell for example, if it did it wouldn't be the intelligentsia, it would be the power elite.
I stopped reading at this point.

Atheism is and isn't a comfort. The comfort side is that it gives them certainty in an uncertain world. People want to be certain on something, whether it's good or bad. Hoewever, it isn't a comfort when they believe when they die, it's all over. So it has both sides.

Myth? Um, no, it's a belief, not a history tale.

Atheism is the worldview of the lazy? Um, no; though, there are lazy atheists. Then again, what is "lazy"? There are many definitions out there.

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It requires little though, no work and imposes no burden of responsibility.
That wasn't explained properly; what do you mean? You need to re-write that. In any case, so what? Just because, if, as you say, it doesn't impose a burden of responsibility, it doesn't make it wrong. Fallacy in logic.

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Atheism, like all shallow and essentially dumb philosophies
Shallow? What do you mean? Have you read the complex discourses on the belief? It's not a shallow belief; there are just superficial and non-superficial arguments for the belief.

As for the last part of your second paragraph, there is just too much to explain...

By the way, I'm not an atheist. If you're going to argue against it, do a good job. You, however, from those two paragraphs, did a poor job. Are you religious? Meh, I'm not looking at this thread again... not bothered.
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Old 23-12-2012, 01:58 PM   #69
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I don't think I'm god. I don't think there is a god. If you disagree prove me otherwise.

This is typical of lazy atheists. Rub your magic lamp, abracadabra, snap your fingers and `God' should appear.

Have you dedicated years of your life to a sincere search for God?

GOD is a fairly large and important subject which you seem to have dismissed out of hand.

How many years did you go to school to get the rudiments of an education? 10 years? What if you dedicated 10 years to reaching Higher/God Consciousness? Have you ever considered this?

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Old 23-12-2012, 02:01 PM   #70
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This is typical of lazy atheists. Rub your magic lamp, abracadabra, snap your fingers and `God' should appear.

Have you dedicated years of your life to a sincere search for God?

GOD is a fairly large and important subject which you seem to have dismissed out of hand.

How many years did you go to school to get the rudiments of an education? 10 years? What if you dedicated 10 years to reaching Higher/God Consciousness? Have you ever considered this?
It's not for me to attempt to prove the existance of a god I don't believe in. If you believe in god, convince me.
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Old 23-12-2012, 02:12 PM   #71
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It's not for me to attempt to prove the existance of a god I don't believe in. If you believe in god, convince me.

Again the intellectually, spiritually cheap, easy, lazy way out.

Do you sincerely want to know if there is a God?

Do You think you can find GOD in a book, in the written word or in an argument? The search for God is far beyond test tubes and books.

I cannot give you my experiences of Higher Consciousness. You have to do the WORK to find out for yourself.

The Egyptians believed that you have to do the spiritual work in this life in order to go on to the next. If you knew that by denying the existence of God you were in effect giving up your Immortal Soul - would you still deny yourself the opportunity to reach for God Consciousness in this life? Jesus said the Kingdom of Heaven is here NOW. But even HE had to work for it...

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Old 23-12-2012, 02:24 PM   #72
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Again the intellectually, spiritually cheap, easy, lazy way out.

Do you sincerely want to know if there is a God?

Do You think you can find GOD in a book, in the written word or in an argument? The search for God is far beyond test tubes and books.

I cannot give you my experiences of Higher Consciousness. You have to do the WORK to find out for yourself.

The Egyptians believed that you have to do the spiritual work in this life in order to go on to the next. If you knew that by denying the existence of God you were in effect giving up your Immortal Soul - would you still deny yourself the opportunity to reach for God Consciousness in this life? Jesus said the Kingdom of Heaven is here NOW. But even HE had to work for it...
I, for one, have spent most of my intellectually active life in search of this Higher Being. I've had plenty of experiences, however, strange experience prove nothing beyond the fact that strange experiences can occur. They don't prove whatever framework was used to achieve this experience. I see no reason to believe in some God simply on the basis of a few odd experiences.
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an ignorant, babbling hooligan out to destroy the Christian religion
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Old 23-12-2012, 02:28 PM   #73
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fuck you, thats my answer.
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Old 23-12-2012, 02:38 PM   #74
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I, for one, have spent most of my intellectually active life in search of this Higher Being. I've had plenty of experiences, however, strange experience prove nothing beyond the fact that strange experiences can occur. They don't prove whatever framework was used to achieve this experience. I see no reason to believe in some God simply on the basis of a few odd experiences.

You tried to reach God Consciousness with your INTELLECT? Can't be done.

However at least you have made some effort and I applaud you for that.

What kind of `strange experiences' did you have? What practices have you been following?
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Old 23-12-2012, 02:38 PM   #75
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fuck you, thats my answer.
Brilliant.
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Old 23-12-2012, 02:41 PM   #76
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You tried to reach God Consciousness with your INTELLECT? Can't be done.

However at least you have made some effort and I applaud you for that.

What kind of `strange experiences' did you have? What practices have you been following?
Don't you think that if ive gone as far as going on the David icke forum religious board, i might have made some effort to search for god.
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Old 23-12-2012, 02:48 PM   #77
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Don't you think that if ive gone as far as going on the David icke forum religious board, i might have made some effort to search for god.
`Some effort to search for God'? Was that before or after your morning milk toast?

What effort?
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Old 23-12-2012, 02:53 PM   #78
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You tried to reach God Consciousness with your INTELLECT? Can't be done.

However at least you have made some effort and I applaud you for that.

What kind of `strange experiences' did you have? What practices have you been following?
I didn't say that, did I? I meant "intellectually active", as in, can read. I realize that in order to achieve a sacred state of being, one must first achieve a religious state of mind, which usually includes turning off ones skepticism and rationality.

I've had a number of experiences with various traditions. One of the more profound experiences I've had was performing Crowley's Liber Samekh with a degree of success and experiencing my "Holy Guardian Angel". I've found Crowley's rituals to be rather effective in general, and still perform the Star Ruby rather often. I've also tried traditions such as Hermetic magic, Enochian magic, etc. to varying degrees of success. I find the more "sinister" traditions work better form me.
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Old 23-12-2012, 02:56 PM   #79
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`Some effort to search for God'? Was that before or after your morning milk toast?

What effort?
I know my way round some of the bible. I've also had plenty of time to conceder the 'big questions.'

Ever since I was very young. I remember being at primary school thinking about all sorts of stuff.
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Old 23-12-2012, 04:46 PM   #80
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Creationism does not equate Genesis. If you believe in souls and ''a creative force'' you are a creationist.

Of course there are different types of creationism:
here you contradict yourself.
nailing me with 'creationist...but admitting there are different kinds of creationists.
generally, creationism acknowledges the abrahamic god as creator. (according to your link)

i do not acknowledge your tyrant god.
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