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Old 14-01-2019, 11:59 AM   #41
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It's always been a puzzle to me why babies seem to have such a hard time of it... they seem to spend a lot of time crying ... this crying can't be explained as demands for food , or the nappy needs changing , and the distress level seems very high.

We see none of this type of behavior in chimps of gorillas , or cats or dogs , or another life forms...

Pane Andov may have discovered the answer. He's a master at astral travelling , and his observations over many years have drawn him to the conclusion that certain types of ET send out orbs to mix among us and suck our energy ... These orbs are normally invisible , but sometimes show up on cameras , and are visible to babies and experienced astral travelers...

He has observed orbs hovering around babies ... inducing terror in them , and feeding off the energy this terror induces ..

Pane talks about his observations in this video clip , cued at the correct time.

https://youtu.be/t2vpBh_csvI?t=2440
You dont have kids, do you?!
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Old 14-01-2019, 02:14 PM   #42
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Can you point to anything that isn't within consciousness?
No. Everything is consciousness.
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Old 14-01-2019, 02:15 PM   #43
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As I said, I walked this route 25+ years ago - I know more about this than you could possibly comprehend.
mnn ya.
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Old 14-01-2019, 04:02 PM   #44
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No. Everything is consciousness.
Piffle.

The entire function of the body. You don't consciously pump blood through your heart or any one of a million little things all going on.

Any chance you could offer your marvellous insight and explain the above

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mnn ya.
How very enlightening. Try me, see if you can tell me something I didn't read about 50 times probably before you were even born!

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Old 14-01-2019, 07:13 PM   #45
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The entire function of the body. You don't consciously pump blood through your heart or any one of a million little things all going on.
The body and its functions are perceptions within consciousness.

Without consciousness, there would be no basis for experiencing them.

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What has this to do with "energy vampires"?
Probably something.
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Old 14-01-2019, 08:05 PM   #46
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The body and its functions are perceptions within consciousness.

Without consciousness, there would be no basis for experiencing them.
Nice sidestep. They occur whether you notice them or not.

This is going nowhere.

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Probably something.
Probably? If you say so.
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Old 14-01-2019, 08:12 PM   #47
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The body and its functions are perceptions within consciousness.

Without consciousness, there would be no basis for experiencing them.



Probably something.
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usage rules virtually identical to those of human
language. It turns out that the "junk" was laden with the
intimations of intelligence, purpose and meaning (a
perspective forbidden by fundamentalist Darwinism
).

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Our DNA harnesses both sound and light in its
moment-by-moment operations, but, more than this, it
"punches holes" in space-time, opening a window to
time-space/the time domain. To put it another way, our
DNA creates "magnetised wormholes" in the fabric of
space—"…tunnel connections between entirely
different areas in the universe through which
information can be transmitted outside of space and
time. The DNA attracts these bits of information and
passes them on to our consciousness."
10 Most of us
know this process as intuition or psychic insight.
Ordinary human memory would also operate on similar
principles, since available evidence indicates that our
memories are stored not in our brains but in field
structures that envelop our bodies, and ultimately in
the vacuum/aether itself.

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If your "soul" is in fact a torsion field or vortex in the
fabric of space (or a structure of multiple vortices, as
described by seers and occultists), then your
consciousness, by definition, must survive the demise of
your physical body: it existed in the aether/vacuum
before you ever obtained a body.

from an article abot junk dna .......


"junk".......

its like nasa double wack theory for the moon

they are all mercenaries......paid to steer from the truth
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Old 14-01-2019, 08:21 PM   #48
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Nice sidestep. They occur whether you notice them or not.

This is going nowhere.
Rethink this. It's not a sidestep at all - it's the fundamental issue.

How do they occur whether they're noticed or not?

Who do they occur to if that's the case?

They only appear to 'occur whether they're noticed or not' when they're noticed.

The functions of the human body have never been noticed or observed outside of a consciousness that is observing them.

I know the Brian Cox's of the world don't understand this simplest of simple points.

I'll give you more credit than him and ask you to look at that point again.

...or feel free to ignore further discussion on this most important of important discussions, if you wish.

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Probably? If you say so.
Definitely probably!

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Old 14-01-2019, 08:31 PM   #49
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)

from an article abot junk dna .......


"junk".......
Yeah, 'junk' = inconvenient data to a false materialist paradigm.
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Old 14-01-2019, 08:51 PM   #50
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Rethink this. It's not a sidestep at all - it's the fundamental issue.

How do they occur whether they're noticed or not?

Who do they occur to if that's the case?

They only appear to 'occur whether they're noticed or not' when they're noticed.

The functions of the human body have never been noticed or observed outside of a consciousness that is observing them.

I know the Brian Cox's of the world don't understand this simplest of simple points.

I'll give you more credit than him and ask you to look at that point again.

...or feel free to ignore further discussion on this most important of important discussions, if you wish.
Done it all before. I know EXACTLY what you are talking about. I don't disagree with the concept. But you are doing the tree in the forest routine and saying physics only works because we are here to see it and my reply is whatever.

Going nowhere as I said.

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Definitely probably!
If you say so - again.
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Old 14-01-2019, 10:47 PM   #51
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Done it all before. I know EXACTLY what you are talking about. I don't disagree with the concept. But you are doing the tree in the forest routine and saying physics only works because we are here to see it and my reply is whatever..
I wouldn't call it a 'concept'. It is the primary, self-evident reality.

The 'whatever' response is common whenever somebody wants to gloss over that truth and get back to secondary characteristics.

It's like being in a dream, realizing everything - including the physics in a dream - all arise out of the dream consciousness, and then just shrugging and going back to calculating dream numbers to try to figure out the basis of reality.

Similar to what Buddha said about leaving your elephant at home and searching for it's footprints in the forest.

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Old 14-01-2019, 10:54 PM   #52
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I wouldn't call it a 'concept'. It is the primary, self-evident reality.
Didn't I ask you not to use your brain to come to conclusions that enable you to do that? It is most certainly a concept. A human being in a coma still bleeds and pumps blood, there is no awareness. Same as in sleep.

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The 'whatever' response is common whenever somebody wants to gloss over that truth and get back to secondary characteristics.
It's also common in those who simply see a never ending unresolvable exchange or the idea that such an exchange would be futile.

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It's like being in a dream, realizing everything - including the physics in a dream - all arise out of the dream consciousness, and then just shrugging and going back to calculating dream numbers to try to figure out the basis of reality.
Speaking of dreaming, does your consciousness know of every fart and snore

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Similar to what Buddha said about leaving your elephant at home and searching for it's footprints in the forest.

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Old 14-01-2019, 11:21 PM   #53
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A human being in a coma still bleeds and pumps blood, there is no awareness. Same as in sleep.
The guy in the coma and his pumping heart is perceived by your consciousness. It's your dream.

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It's also common in those who simply see a never ending unresolvable exchange or the idea that such an exchange would be futile.
It's futile unless I can wear you down and get you to understand where you're going wrong.

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Speaking of dreaming, does your consciousness know of every fart and snore
My girlfriend's consciousness does if she's awake and suffering through my nocturnal eructations.

In my consciousness, they never happened, so I don't know what her problem is!

Another analogy to drive you mad: Ignoring the primacy of consciousness is like screening a movie and expecting the characters in the movie to figure out how the projector works by going through the motions of the plot.

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Old 14-01-2019, 11:34 PM   #54
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The guy in the coma and his pumping heart is perceived by your consciousness. It's your dream.
Nice dodge. He's alive and when/if he wakes, all that was going on for HIM.

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It's futile unless I can wear you down and get you to understand where you're going wrong.
I'm not doubting what you are saying or why - you don't need to wear me down. I just haven't got the mind space anymore to walk with all this virtual life talk. It simply doesn't matter at any meaningful level.

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My girlfriend's consciousness does if she's awake and suffering through my nocturnal eructations.
Nice dodge again.

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In my consciousness, they never happened, so I don't know what her problem is!
Falling tree in forest - blah blah.

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Another analogy to drive you mad: Ignoring the primacy of consciousness is like screening a movie and expecting the characters in the movie to figure out how the projector works by going through the motions of the plot.
Here's one back. The movie on the DVD is still there when you don't play it. It isn't any more there when you do.
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Old 14-01-2019, 11:45 PM   #55
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Nice dodge. He's alive and when/if he wakes, all that was going on for HIM.
He didn't perceive his pumping heart. His conscious experience is a state of unconsciousness followed by a return to conscious awareness. When the doctors show him a graph to prove his heart was pumping while he was in the coma, he is experiencing that medical information in the present moment, in his present consciousness.

The doctors who were conscious during his coma, had different experiences in their own individual consciousnesses.

But to the coma guy who has woken up, the doctors and nursing staff who show him graphs and explain his body was still working while he was unconscious, are also perceived within this present consciousness now he is awake.

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I'm not doubting what you are saying or why - you don't need to wear me down. I just haven't got the mind space anymore to walk with all this virtual life talk. It simply doesn't matter at any meaningful level.
OK, but it isn't virtual at all, and it is ultimately meaningful.

What I'm describing is the way you and I are experiencing this conversation right now at the most fundamental level of reality.

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Here's one back. The movie on the DVD is still there when you don't play it. It isn't any more there when you do.
'Still there' in what sense? It's a potentiality, but the movie is nothing more than encoded data on a disk, and only then if you happen to be looking at that disc and thinking about it in your present consciousness.


--- Supposed to be preparing for a job interview atm.

Back later to reply if you keep banging your head against the wall of this reality.
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Old 15-01-2019, 01:16 AM   #56
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He didn't perceive his pumping heart. His conscious experience is a state of unconsciousness followed by a return to conscious awareness. When the doctors show him a graph to prove his heart was pumping while he was in the coma, he is experiencing that medical information in the present moment, in his present consciousness.
You know what? It would be dead peachy if you stopped trying to win a side issue that you already lost. His heart was beating and the blood was flowing whilst he was unconscious. Consciousness wasn't doing it. This crap about being told about it is neither here nor there....it happened

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The doctors who were conscious during his coma, had different experiences in their own individual consciousnesses.
Irrelevant.

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OK, but it isn't virtual at all, and it is ultimately meaningful.
I found differently.

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What I'm describing is the way you and I are experiencing this conversation right now at the most fundamental level of reality.
I could have sworn I told you I understand this whole thing. I just don't wear it like a dead blanket anymore. It is just another religion, a belief system that gives the illusion that there is nothing more to know.

'
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Still there' in what sense? It's a potentiality, but the movie is nothing more than encoded data on a disk, and only then if you happen to be looking at that disc and thinking about it in your present consciousness.
It's always encoded data whether you connect it to a decoder or not.

The body works whether there is consciousness in it or not. That was what you asked 5 or so posts back.
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Old 15-01-2019, 09:33 AM   #57
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You know what? It would be dead peachy if you stopped trying to win a side issue that you already lost. His heart was beating and the blood was flowing whilst he was unconscious. Consciousness wasn't doing it. This crap about being told about it is neither here nor there....it happened
I thought I 'won' that side issue...

...Which isn't really a side issue at all as the progression was: you asking what energies could astral entities be draining from babies > I suggested, among other things, 'energy-winds of the subtle body' > you said, Buddhism is all in the brain > I argued that the brain is a process within consciousness, not vice-versa.

Anyway, you seem to think that the fact that a person can be unconscious and still have a beating heart proves consciousness isn't driving the process of life.

There are two ways to counter what you're saying about Coma Man.

1. The unnecessarily complicated argument is that there are different levels of consciousness, e.g. normal waking consciousness, various dream-states, deep-sleep and subtle states and higher spiritual states etc.

You would at least agree that the first two are real.

But there are plenty of reports of people experiencing consciousness while in comas, or under general anesthesia.

'Un-conscious' is a very fuzzy term that can mean whatever you want it to mean, though it is generally intended to describe a state removed from normal waking consciousness. When referring to a human who is in a coma or deep sleep, it shouldn't be confused with a non-conscious state, which you might attribute to a chair or a door or a pencil. It essentially means 'not in a state of waking consciousness.' But you're equating unconsciousness with non-consciousness.

So, unless the person is actually dead, it seems sensible to assume there is a subtle level of consciousness still operating even in the deepest coma states.

Backing this up is the fact that research has demonstrated that brain activity is reduced during hallucinogenic states, not enhanced, which is the opposite of what should happen according to the 'consciousness is an epiphenomenon of the brain' paradigm.

2. The simple and self-evident way to counter what you're saying is the one I first put forward, and which I'll try to repeat in a more straightforward way: If Coma Man is unconscious, and his heart is still beating, how do we know his heart is still beating? Because conscious minds are observing it.

In terms of the experience of Coma Man himself, if he is conscious, then falls into a coma, and then wakes up again, let's say he will either report one of two experiences: (a) no perceptions at all during the coma period, or (b) a vague, muddy state of semi-consciousness and a sense that time has elapsed since he lost consciousness and slipped into the coma.

(b) obviously demonstrates a continuum of conscious awareness on a subtler level than the normal waking state.

(a) demonstrates a continuum of consciousness that creates a sense of 'missing time' to account for the period in which he was in the coma.

Ever woken from a deep sleep? I have and the experience is exactly that in (b).

Ever had a general anesthetic? I' have and the experience is exactly that in (a).

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I could have sworn I told you I understand this whole thing. I just don't wear it like a dead blanket anymore. It is just another religion, a belief system that gives the illusion that there is nothing more to know.
Holy crap, why did you make me write all that above when you're saying you already understand it?!

Yet at the same time you clearly don't, since you're still arguing about the guy in the coma with the beating heart in an attempt to prove the opposite.

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It's always encoded data whether you connect it to a decoder or not.
Saying that a movie being watched on a TV screen 'isn't any more there' than it is when it is just code on a disc, is like saying an oak tree is no different to an acorn.

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Old 15-01-2019, 09:49 AM   #58
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Holy crap, why did you make me explain all that above when you're saying you already understand it?!

Yet at the same time you clearly don't, since you're still arguing about the guy in the coma with the beating heart in an attempt to prove the opposite.
The opposite of what you think is not the opposite of correct. You seem to suggest that you are the go to man for all things consciousness and if you say something or suggest something it is the bible for how consciousness works.

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Saying that a movie being watched on a TV screen actually exists in the same form when it is just code on a disc, is like saying an acorn is an oak tree.
Nope. I did not say that - decoding it doesn't stop the code from already existing.

You are gonna have to make one hell of a good post to get me to reply, this is boring me shitless now.
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Old 15-01-2019, 10:09 AM   #59
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Default A new born Baby cry's

To hear it own voice. an the newly awaking scenes.

a strange fact of deaf newborns is ; They do not cry as much. An the monkeys in the white coats. say this is probably, do to ; Them not being able to hear themselves

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Old 15-01-2019, 10:24 AM   #60
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The opposite of what you think is not the opposite of correct. You seem to suggest that you are the go to man for all things consciousness and if you say something or suggest something it is the bible for how consciousness works.
I would have applied for the 'NASA Spokesman' role, but it was already taken.

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Nope. I did not say that - decoding it doesn't stop the code from already existing
Yeah, you did (see quote below), but I won't push it, as I'm sensing epic levels of grumpiness...

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Here's one back. The movie on the DVD is still there when you don't play it. It isn't any more there when you do.


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You are gonna have to make one hell of a good post to get me to reply, this is boring me shitless now.
Thanks for the finger exercise.
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