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Old 11-09-2013, 11:48 PM   #41
vorwahr
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You can earn them playing the game of capitalism
Is that like tycoon
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Old 12-09-2013, 12:07 AM   #42
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Is that like tycoon
Yeah, I'll send you some fractions of this "new polymer money that means fek all in reality" if you create a wallet and post the address. Then you can join the game.
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Old 12-09-2013, 12:07 AM   #43
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Go on then start a syndication online ,
I give it six months or less before its integrated into capitalism
Via tax or fees .
there's a few sites around that are close to what you propose
But with no production Lines and delivery system and lack of servers and the tax laws in each country they are no more than secound hand shops online with some free stuff

you couldn't setup an eBay type thing now in the current system
Who the hell would supply you under the premise that profits were minimal or non Existent .

It's why I gave the obamacare example ,
Socialist systems can't operate within capitalism , capitalism was almost designed around inhibiting or preventing self help it is the epitomy of dependencey on gov or big buisness and if you cross it there's jail .
Of course it would have to be integrated to compete, it would be a level playing field & would rely on private interests to grow. I am not against capitalist ventures, just elite hoarding the wealth..

The idea is evolve rather than revolve. Your socialist revolution bullshit will get you no where. Is either that or we go full madmax back to basics.

This idea would mean the majority of the cash flow would be in the public's hands. So why are we so dumb to prefer to give our cash to robbers like Ebay & their shitty Paypal??

Capitalism doesn't discriminate. And this is not a socialist idea. You are like a stuck record with your agenda Vorwah try broadening your horizons for once.

In a syndicate profits wouldn't be minimal either, you could work on shares or less fees, however you choose. So people who wish to save can still have a more comfortable life, we are not talking communism here. For example if it was an Ebay trading type deal the sellers would still be private, just working together & not being mugged.
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Old 12-09-2013, 12:13 AM   #44
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Of course it would have to be integrated to compete, it would be a level playing field & would rely on private interests to grow. I am not against capitalist ventures, just elite hoarding the wealth..

The idea is evolve rather than revolve. Your socialist revolution bullshit will get you no where. Is either that or we go full madmax back to basics.

This idea would mean the majority of the cash flow would be in the public's hands. So why are we so dumb to prefer to give our cash to robbers like Ebay & their shitty Paypal??

Capitalism doesn't discriminate. And this is not a socialist idea. You are like a stuck record with your agenda Vorwah try broadening your horizons for once.

In a syndicate profits wouldn't be minimal either, you could work on shares or less fees, however you choose. So people who wish to save can still have a more comfortable life, we are not talking communism here. For example if it was an Ebay trading type deal the sellers would still be private, just working together & not being mugged.

There is no such thing as a level playing field in capitalism lol .
it relies on competition to exist .
capitalism on a level playing field is socialism lol ,

Let's say we all used bitcoins what difference would it make if everyone was buying them with hard cash then once established as a currencey we would work for them as a wage ,
Oh look full circle back to where we started lmao .


Oh capitalism does discriminate and its more effective the more cash you have ,
A millionaire can skim a billion pennies of a product
That his retailer can only skim a penny off every two sold and the customer loses ten pence buying the dam thing
And gets paid 10 pence a week to make a hundred of them .

Last edited by vorwahr; 12-09-2013 at 12:21 AM.
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Old 12-09-2013, 12:24 AM   #45
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There is no such thing as a level playing field in capitalism lol .
it relies on competition to exist .
capitalism on a level playing field is socialism lol ,

Let's say we all used bitcoins what difference would it make if everyone was buying them with hard cash then once established as a currencey we would work for them as a wage ,
Oh look full circle back to where we started lmao .
Youre dreaming man with your socialist utopian wetdreams.
Im just trying to keep it real on a piratical level we could be doing to restore the balance. Its the only realistic defence I have heard that can combat corporatist elite wankers hoarding all the wealth. You gotta beat em at their own game. Infiltrate & take over.
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Old 12-09-2013, 12:27 AM   #46
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Youre dreaming man with your socialist utopian wetdreams.
Im just trying to keep it real on a piratical level we could be doing to restore the balance. Its the only realistic defence I have heard that can combat corporatist elite wankers hoarding all the wealth. You gotta beat em at their own game. Infiltrate & take over.
Your not keeping it real your keeping it as is .

Meet the new boss same as the old boss .
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Old 12-09-2013, 12:32 AM   #47
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Your not keeping it real your keeping it as is .

Meet the new boss same as the old boss .
The whole idea of syndicates you dont have a boss.
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Old 12-09-2013, 12:37 AM   #48
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Yeah the internet is one of the greatest tools we have and a great opportunity. Have you looked into Bitcoin, because I am really excited about that and the prospects and the possibilities of what it could mean for society. That is our own Paypal in my opinion.
I missed the boat on bitcoin. But yes a good idea & shows the power we have if we utilise it.
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Old 12-09-2013, 12:43 AM   #49
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Let's say we all used bitcoins what difference would it make if everyone was buying them with hard cash then once established as a currencey we would work for them as a wage ,
Oh look full circle back to where we started lmao.
Chill out vorwahr, I was only pointing them out to porridge because he mentioned we should have our own version of paypal.

Bitcoin could make a lot of difference, anarchists (which this thread is about) seem to love Bitcoin. It takes the monopoly of money creation away from the government.

It could solve a few problems some of which I'm sure you wouldn't mind seeing happen. It is deflationary and so therefore a government can't rob you using the hidden inflation tax. The money is also out of reach of government so they can't rob citizens like they did in Cyprus. It removes the ability of government to print money which is one of their ways of paying for things like war. It costs next to nothing to send to each other (currently less than 1p) so no evil capitalists are making transaction fees which are currently like 2 to 3% on credit cards. If we was all to use it, the banks would not be able to survive in their current form as they are no longer needed to store money. It also kind of promotes the idea of saving rather than spending on consumerist nonsence because it is deflationary.
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Old 12-09-2013, 02:41 AM   #50
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why do you feel the need to be governed, if you are not going to comply anyway?
The key to joy is disobedience, as you know
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Old 12-09-2013, 09:25 AM   #51
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But socialism isn't "whats yours is mine" at all that's
A scareongering capitalist myth , in socialist society if you steal you get punished
You don't get anything for free but its certainly esier to atain a comfortable lifestyle th. It is in a capitalist society where most of ypur financial efforts are steered towards your boss or the state .
and this hasn't been the socialist way as well? in the real world i mean. its thoose nasty fuckers who assume control through social contracts and bodys politic that screw it for everyone. yes, i see what you mean about socialism but capitalism would work just as well with "a soul". well, the money etc would take a hike, but thats another story...

btw, your bit about bitcoin was...right on the money

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Old 12-09-2013, 10:14 AM   #52
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marx believed that anarchism would naturally follow from communism, as the workers took over control of all production.
he believed that government would become redundant.
even in an anarchist society, it is my opinion that one would need some kind of government to protect the citizens against corporations that would screw us over to make a tidy profit for their shareholders. eg

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2008_Chinese_milk_scandal

i'm sure more people would be up to this kind of crap if they thought they could get away with it

Quote:
The 2008 Chinese milk scandal was a food safety incident in the People's Republic of China, involving milk and infant formula, and other food materials and components, adulterated with melamine.
Quote:
Melamine is described as being "Harmful if swallowed, inhaled or absorbed through the skin. Chronic exposure may cause cancer or reproductive damage. Eye, skin and respiratory irritant."
i wouldn't want to live in a world where corporations became the guardians of human safety

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and there is a sure way to screw anarchy....just add another unneeded ism.

capitalism and spirituality do not mix.for that matter, socialism is no better. on the one hand we have whats mine is mine and on the other we have whats yours is mine. believe it or not, there is another way. but humanity is nowhere near ready for it. until then i guess theres always stumbling about.
i disagree, spirituality bubbles up from the 'soul', not down from the central bank

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Yeah the internet is one of the greatest tools we have and a great opportunity. Have you looked into Bitcoin, because I am really excited about that and the prospects and the possibilities of what it could mean for society. That is our own Paypal in my opinion.

if bitcoin is bought with hard government fiat currency, then surely bitcoin is subject to inflation? ie

national debt = 100
can of coke costs 5
bit coin purchased for 10, can purchase 2 cans of coke
national debt increases to 200
can of coke increases cost to 10 (due to inflation)
bit coin can purchase 1 can of coke

bitcoin has lost value through inflation, i keep meaning to read about bitcoin but not got round to it, but i imagine that is how it works?


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Originally Posted by vorwahr View Post
Go on then start a syndication online ,
I give it six months or less before its integrated into capitalism
Via tax or fees .
there's a few sites around that are close to what you propose
But with no production Lines and delivery system and lack of servers and the tax laws in each country they are no more than secound hand shops online with some free stuff

you couldn't setup an eBay type thing now in the current system
Who the hell would supply you under the premise that profits were minimal or non Existent .

It's why I gave the obamacare example ,
Socialist systems can't operate within capitalism , capitalism was almost designed around inhibiting or preventing self help it is the epitomy of dependencey on gov or big buisness and if you cross it there's jail .
Perhaps i've watched to much aj, but capitalism leads to crony capitalism (ie giant monopolies) which consolidates all the wealth in the 1% meaning the 1% then provide services to the impoverished masses through socialism?


in reply to the op's question - something akin to a nightwatchman anarchism seems the way forward to me

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Night-watchman_state

the only people i trust less then the government are banks, corporations and my neighbours lol
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Old 12-09-2013, 10:25 AM   #53
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the only people i trust less then the government are banks, corporations and my neighbours lol



yup, would want like minded people around for a caring/ sharing community to work.
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Old 12-09-2013, 10:36 AM   #54
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the only people i trust less then the government are banks, corporations and my neighbours lol



yup, would want like minded people around for a caring/ sharing community to work.
just cause i don't trust, doesn't mean i don't care, strawman fallacy friend
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Old 12-09-2013, 10:58 AM   #55
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just cause i don't trust, doesn't mean i don't care, strawman fallacy friend
No, I was agreeing with you.
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Old 12-09-2013, 11:14 AM   #56
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No, I was agreeing with you.
oh, ok, i misinterpreted it then, please accept my appologies
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Old 12-09-2013, 11:16 AM   #57
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N/P
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Old 12-09-2013, 12:16 PM   #58
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Default Fiat paper is not real money.

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Originally Posted by vorwahr View Post
How do you get bitcoins ?

Oh hang on you buy them with normal cash lol
What use is that its like changing the Uk money to new polymer money it means fek all in reality
Let's trade in bitcoins I've a dog for sale 10 bitcoins
Oh you don't have any that's ok exchange real money for some here a xxxx blah blah for a small fee
You could try selling your dog for bitcoins here https://www.bitmit.net/en/hotauctions
And then when you want some real money buy some silver with them
Or like wise if you have real money its easy to exchenge them for bitcoin.

And you wont get scammed a huge percent by wallst corporations
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Old 12-09-2013, 02:21 PM   #59
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if bitcoin is bought with hard government fiat currency, then surely bitcoin is subject to inflation?

bitcoin has lost value through inflation, i keep meaning to read about bitcoin but not got round to it, but i imagine that is how it works?
They optionally can be bought with gov fiat currency (you can also sell stuff, provide goods or services to earn them just like you would with any other currency, or you can mine them if you're tech-savvy).

Bitcoin has its own money supply and thus the exchange value is fluctuating all the time. If bitcoins continue to appreciate, then you will get milk tomorrow for less bitcoins than today.
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Old 12-09-2013, 06:02 PM   #60
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I have just finished reading a book called 'Anarchism: Arguments For And Against.'

Anarchism
'A political theory advocating the elimination of governments and governmental restraint and the substitution of voluntary cooperation among individuals.'


Those belonging to or coming from authoritarian parties find it hard to accept that one can organise without 'some form' of government.
Therefore they conclude, and it is a general argument against Anarchism, that 'Anarchists do not believe in organisation'. But government is of people, organisation is of things.
There is a belief that Anarchists 'break up other people's organisations but are unable to build their own' often expressed where dangerous, hierarchical or useless organisations dominate and prevent libertarian ones being created. it can well be admitted that particular people in particular places have failed in the task of building Anarchist organisations but in many parts of the world they do exist.

An organisation may be democratic or dictatorial, it may be authoritarian or libertarian, and there are many libertarian organisations, not necessarily Anarchist, which prove that all organisation need not be run from the top downwards.

So, Anarchy in the u.k -could it work ? or do you need to be governed?

What would be your argument ~ for or against.

.
In a perfect world which had government which served the poeple, government itself would be governed by its own obligation to fulfill its role!
TRUE - the world can organise and intelligently co-operate without government...
But surley government could do a better job of co-operating with the processes of co-operation itself!
It is obvious that many MPs are zenophobic, they token strike out against the politicly incorrect.. but thats just policy to do so!
Without policy they would all be transvestite dada dwarves accidently painting swastikas on banana boats every day, day after day!
IF government is ever to cease to be distastefull all it need do is fulfill its role and act as a "simplified people powered mechanism which serves more people than it employs in its own maintainance!", thus leaving civilisation not caught in inneficient mechanisms free to develop philosophy in the time salvaged"

for example..
If it was made illegal to become a consultant after being an MP or PM.. people would still apply for the position.
If it was mandatory to live on the state recognised minimum wage as a MP or PM.. people of political mind would still apply for the position.
If a PM had to face voluntary exile after his term , people would still apply for the position.
In countries of the world more desperate than our own, even maybe in our country.. IF DEATH ROW was the next step after presidency,, people of political intent and care for the people would still apply for the position.

OUR GOVERNMENTS do not vett for people who believe in the governments role perfected!
Our governments are zenophobes running from nightmares.. and making sure those nightmares stay amongst the lower people and not with the proper class of people.

4 years in power.. 20 in prison after..
yes i know they would improve the prisons IF that was the law
Thats the point.
Government should live in the world they build!
othewise you can arguably state their judgement is duplicitous and selfish.. heaven forbid.
their personal interests are before application of the peoples interest!
It is an definate offence against governments very foundation,
AND ILLEGAL!
but there is no barrister in our country who would dare argue the case, after spending many years succeeding, who wants to downgrade to EQUAL?

Im happy to be governed by death row MPs..
Im CERTAIN we could still make up the numbers AND increase the creativity..
No lONGTERM for the MPS...
we need lasting improvements today, their legacy of social harmony perpetuated from beyond the lethal injection should be all they are interested in!
I am in no way promoting an "off with their heads" attitude to our current governMENt, Im simply stating i would happily exchange them for people who give a shit about the people more than they give a shit about themselves! I am happy for the MP selection process to include psychological evaluation to ensure this SLANT ON POLITICAL CONTROL IS "within" a junior MPs psyche,! AND WHY NOT?, If they are not polticly in favour of the majority then they should be dismissed as elitists.

Last edited by the gourd; 12-09-2013 at 07:04 PM.
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