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View Poll Results: Do you eat meat?
Yes i eat meat But wouldn't slaughter animals myself 44 28.95%
Yes i eat meat and would slaughter animals myself 39 25.66%
I dont eat meat but dont mind others eating meat 25 16.45%
i dont eat meat and i'm against others eating meat 40 26.32%
Are you sick to death of this debate? 4 2.63%
Voters: 152. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 07-11-2015, 12:37 AM   #1781
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But that is what you all are/have been doing here. Telling people what is right for them. Telling people how they should think and feel about something.
I don't know about that my friend if I have done that in the past then I was wrong and will admit to it. I only speak for myself and am responsible only for my own actions and words and to be honest I have no problem with meat eaters only with the system that exploits and tortures my animal brothers and sisters for profit not for survival and personal choice.
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Old 07-11-2015, 12:49 AM   #1782
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I don't know about that my friend if I have done that in the past then I was wrong and will admit to it. I only speak for myself and am responsible only for my own actions and words and to be honest I have no problem with meat eaters only with the system that exploits and tortures my animal brothers and sisters for profit not for survival and personal choice.
I wasn't trying to place the blame solely on you. But I have been reading this thread for forever and every other so-called vegan does just that. And I agree with you about how the system exploits animals. They call hunting them for entertainment purposes a sport.
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Old 21-11-2015, 02:34 PM   #1783
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The industry of death will kill us all, one way or another... https://www.newscientist.com/article...rt-antibiotics
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Why is it that the loudest critics of ''Big Pharma'' are Big Placebo?

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Old 21-11-2015, 04:28 PM   #1784
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One of the Hairy Bikers was on telly this morning. He mentioned his visit to a concentration camp and we saw a clip from that programme. He wondered aloud how anyone could dare to decide that some lives (those of the victims of the camp) were not worth living. Yet he decides that the victims he cooks and eats on television are not worth living. He shed a tear at the camp but he jokes and clowns about when he is cooking and eating his victims. Many compassionate Jews have likened the treatment of slaughterhouse and vivisection victims to that of Jews and other humans in concentration camps. Until people realise and accept that the lives of all sentient beings are worthy of living we will never have peace.
A marvellous post!
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Old 09-12-2015, 03:31 PM   #1785
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A marvellous post!
Thanks, Sir Knight.
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Old 21-02-2016, 07:40 PM   #1786
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The alarm bells on antibiotic resistance have been ringing for long enough.

"In 1945 Alexander Fleming, the man who discovered penicillin, warned that overuse of his miracle drug could make bacteria immune to it. He was right—and not just about penicillin: the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention has estimated that antibiotic-resistant bacteria infect more than two million people a year, at least 23,000 of whom die. A significant part of that overuse, the CDC says, involves feeding the drugs to the animals we eat. Farmers do this not to cure or prevent disease but simply to make livestock grow bigger and faster."

New guidelines to curb the overuse of drugs in food animals are inadequate to deal with a growing crisis - http://www.scientificamerican.com/ar...-farm-animals/
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''Chlorine is a deadly poison gas employed on European battlefields in World War I. Sodium is a corrosive metal which burns upon contact with water. Together they make a placid and unpoisonous material, table salt. Why each of these substances has the properties it does is a subject called chemistry'' - Carl Sagan

Why is it that the loudest critics of ''Big Pharma'' are Big Placebo?
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Old 29-02-2016, 03:37 AM   #1787
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The environmental cost of wasting meat is high because all the valuable resources that went into its production are wasted too. Also wasted are the lives of tens of billions of sentient individuals annually, who are so grossly devalued as to not even be mentioned in the below article that includes this deeply disturbing photo of their anonymous dismembered remains, each and every one unique and worthy, with lives that mattered to them.

So meat IS food waste and cruelty, whether it's eaten or not. The solution is not to stop wasting meat, it's to stop producing it – along with all slaughter products. Humans have no nutritional requirement for the flesh or secretions of any animal, and there is no valid scientific or ethical reason to consume them. Continuing this destructive and increasingly obsolete industry in the age of information, climate change, and increasing water scarcity along with many other things (i.e., healthy, etc) is truly absurd.

http://phys.org/news/2015-08-meat-fo...ronmental.html & http://www.theguardian.com/environme...beef-each-year
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''Chlorine is a deadly poison gas employed on European battlefields in World War I. Sodium is a corrosive metal which burns upon contact with water. Together they make a placid and unpoisonous material, table salt. Why each of these substances has the properties it does is a subject called chemistry'' - Carl Sagan

Why is it that the loudest critics of ''Big Pharma'' are Big Placebo?
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Old 29-02-2016, 05:40 AM   #1788
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Originally Posted by dumbcritic View Post
The environmental cost of wasting meat is high because all the valuable resources that went into its production are wasted too. Also wasted are the lives of tens of billions of sentient individuals annually, who are so grossly devalued as to not even be mentioned in the below article that includes this deeply disturbing photo of their anonymous dismembered remains, each and every one unique and worthy, with lives that mattered to them.

So meat IS food waste and cruelty, whether it's eaten or not. The solution is not to stop wasting meat, it's to stop producing it – along with all slaughter products. Humans have no nutritional requirement for the flesh or secretions of any animal, and there is no valid scientific or ethical reason to consume them. Continuing this destructive and increasingly obsolete industry in the age of information, climate change, and increasing water scarcity along with many other things (i.e., healthy, etc) is truly absurd.

http://phys.org/news/2015-08-meat-fo...ronmental.html & http://www.theguardian.com/environme...beef-each-year
I suffer absolute guilt and worry over my inability to go vegetarian, /vegan . Its something I try over and over at the big risk to my health and well being.

All these so called facts that are given out that no one believes at any other time become gods truth when its trying to make people stop eating meat. Only yesterday someone posted to me Its a scientific fact after a list of things eating meat can do to you and the planet.
Are these the same scientific facts that vaccines work? the same scientific facts that we are still looking for a cure for many diseases others have cured. Why do people believe this scientific fact about meat but not the others? they need to much water, they give out to much gasses on and on these FACTS go.. Vegans and vegetarian quote these facts over and over even here, where no one ever believes any FACTS by scientists .



Where I live there are a few fields where the farmers leave the bullocks, all they do is eat grass .. the farmer never gives anything else ( unless snow is on the ground) they have a trough that gets rain water if they need it, but they mainly get their water from eating wet and dew covered grass.




So once again last night my guilt overflows at eating what little meat I do but I do eat a lot of eggs butter and cheese. guilt ridden sleep.

Wake up to see once again DC pushing the guilt .. the only member who pushes the party line here. I have long thought that the way meat eaters are treated by some people is appalling and very much a agenda by tptb to make people ill. It makes me ill so who knows how many people would get mentally ill and go into "I cannot be bothered any more" mode. just what they want.

I do not believe the planet can support everyone being a vegetarian/vegan.. All the ones I know eat vast amounts they never seem to stop eating. .. how much land would they need to feed them , how much more water needed to water the plants? Hardly any goodness in today's plants.. Would not suprise me that they are pushing people to eat plants that they know do not have what we need any more..

One to watch very closely I think. thanks again DC. I always believe the opposite to you and i feel that is for a reason.

Edited to add
Wasted meat is down to them producing to much. Not many people eat as much as my parents and grandparents did and they never wasted any. Sunday joint would last three days meals. .. Dont blame Joe public for what has nothing to do with them..
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Old 29-02-2016, 10:17 AM   #1789
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Originally Posted by kizzie View Post
I suffer absolute guilt and worry over my inability to go vegetarian, /vegan . Its something I try over and over at the big risk to my health and well being.

All these so called facts that are given out that no one believes at any other time become gods truth when its trying to make people stop eating meat. Only yesterday someone posted to me Its a scientific fact after a list of things eating meat can do to you and the planet.
Are these the same scientific facts that vaccines work? the same scientific facts that we are still looking for a cure for many diseases others have cured. Why do people believe this scientific fact about meat but not the others? they need to much water, they give out to much gasses on and on these FACTS go.. Vegans and vegetarian quote these facts over and over even here, where no one ever believes any FACTS by scientists .



Where I live there are a few fields where the farmers leave the bullocks, all they do is eat grass .. the farmer never gives anything else ( unless snow is on the ground) they have a trough that gets rain water if they need it, but they mainly get their water from eating wet and dew covered grass.




So once again last night my guilt overflows at eating what little meat I do but I do eat a lot of eggs butter and cheese. guilt ridden sleep.

Wake up to see once again DC pushing the guilt .. the only member who pushes the party line here. I have long thought that the way meat eaters are treated by some people is appalling and very much a agenda by tptb to make people ill. It makes me ill so who knows how many people would get mentally ill and go into "I cannot be bothered any more" mode. just what they want.

I do not believe the planet can support everyone being a vegetarian/vegan.. All the ones I know eat vast amounts they never seem to stop eating. .. how much land would they need to feed them , how much more water needed to water the plants? Hardly any goodness in today's plants.. Would not suprise me that they are pushing people to eat plants that they know do not have what we need any more..

One to watch very closely I think. thanks again DC. I always believe the opposite to you and i feel that is for a reason.

Edited to add
Wasted meat is down to them producing to much. Not many people eat as much as my parents and grandparents did and they never wasted any. Sunday joint would last three days meals. .. Dont blame Joe public for what has nothing to do with them..
kizzie, you can do it, just take it easy on yourself, small steps and love yourself all the way.
When I transitioned from eating meat, first I gave up eating four legged animals meat, then poultry and kept having some fish and sea food. There is plenty of protein in organic eggs, yoghurt, cheese and pretty much in every other plant foods. Plenty of protein in vegetables, pulses, beans, it's a truly rich choice.
For healthy, filling, low gluten breads and porridge I love organic corn flour, spelt, coconut flour. I love tomatoes with greek feta cheese and eggs, risotto, veggie rolls with egg. I don't even cook much, cause I don't enjoy cooking much and I work long enough hours. Just eat lots of raw food, buy ready made frozen, every now and then I'll cook a cream soup or pasta with sauce, stir fry vegetables and mushrooms. If I had all day long to cook and focus on that, I would make amazing stuff, maybe some day I will. But plenty of healthy vegetarian food choice, just say "yes I can, this is good for me", take it slowly and love yourself
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Old 29-02-2016, 01:27 PM   #1790
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One of the Hairy Bikers was on telly this morning. He mentioned his visit to a concentration camp and we saw a clip from that programme. He wondered aloud how anyone could dare to decide that some lives (those of the victims of the camp) were not worth living. Yet he decides that the victims he cooks and eats on television are not worth living. He shed a tear at the camp but he jokes and clowns about when he is cooking and eating his victims. Many compassionate Jews have likened the treatment of slaughterhouse and vivisection victims to that of Jews and other humans in concentration camps. Until people realise and accept that the lives of all sentient beings are worthy of living we will never have peace.
As you say a number of Holocaust survivors have drawn the same parallel. Perhaps Edgar Kupfer-Koberwitz was the one who termed it most eloquently ...
http://www.neveragain.org.il/article...pfer-koberwitz

Be it a global awakening, or an individual spiritual awakening, - if it is true - the first thing that rings out is empathy, accompanied by the desire not to hurt or kill, or cause sorrow.
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If you set out each day to do all the goodness and kindness that you can, and to do no harm to man or beast, then you are walking the highest path.
And when your time is up, if you can leave the earth a better place than you found it, then yours will have been a life well lived.
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Old 01-03-2016, 07:44 AM   #1791
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kizzie, you can do it, just take it easy on yourself, small steps and love yourself all the way.
When I transitioned from eating meat, first I gave up eating four legged animals meat, then poultry and kept having some fish and sea food. There is plenty of protein in organic eggs, yoghurt, cheese and pretty much in every other plant foods. Plenty of protein in vegetables, pulses, beans, it's a truly rich choice.
For healthy, filling, low gluten breads and porridge I love organic corn flour, spelt, coconut flour. I love tomatoes with greek feta cheese and eggs, risotto, veggie rolls with egg. I don't even cook much, cause I don't enjoy cooking much and I work long enough hours. Just eat lots of raw food, buy ready made frozen, every now and then I'll cook a cream soup or pasta with sauce, stir fry vegetables and mushrooms. If I had all day long to cook and focus on that, I would make amazing stuff, maybe some day I will. But plenty of healthy vegetarian food choice, just say "yes I can, this is good for me", take it slowly and love yourself


its a bit more complicated than that, I cannot eat grain, rice, pasta noodles, legumes,beans potatoes some because I have joints that they inflame others because they kick me out of ketosis into a spiral of depression that is so hard to get out of .. Cravings for sweet things carb addiction is by far my hardest addiction to break and every time I think I have it beat.. I will eat something I should not have ( just a piece of fruit) and pow its back again.
I hardly eat any meat in fact I hardly eat much of anything these days I seem to live on peanut butter that I make with huge amounts of fat in (butter and coconut oil) Eggs and cheese that I snack on..

I have no idea what I am doing or where this is going. I just cannot deal with people telling me I am not spiritual enough because of eating butter, eggs cheese etc.. I should be ashamed of myself for these things.
I know my head tells me who are these people who think they are on "gods" right hand side because they no longer eat any animal products and yet are cruel to their fellow man.

As many here know its my biggest hurdle and I have had many.. I know and have been told many times.. Just eat what you need and dont think about those people trying to shame you.. but its not easy.

I would love to know why some people can be very healthy on a meat free diet and others just get ill

I am not a meat eater that would torment a vegan or vegetarian ( we all know them) and my daughter isnt a vegetarian that would shame a meat eater. She tells me to stop trying now and eat what I need and know I have done my best to eat in a way that harms no one..

I will one day sort this out in my head.. That day isnt now though
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Old 01-03-2016, 08:08 AM   #1792
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Also my dog eats raw and my cats are always bringing in rabbits to munch on or just to leave me as a present.. I dont feel bad about this at all. .. I always say sorry to the rabbits before disposing of them.. Took a live one back to the fields the other night. Its something I just shrug my shoulders at just cannot do that for myself.

mind you I have always carried the guilt of the world on my shoulders for some reason
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Old 01-03-2016, 11:45 AM   #1793
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its a bit more complicated than that, I cannot eat grain, rice, pasta noodles, legumes,beans potatoes some because I have joints that they inflame others because they kick me out of ketosis into a spiral of depression that is so hard to get out of .. Cravings for sweet things carb addiction is by far my hardest addiction to break and every time I think I have it beat.. I will eat something I should not have ( just a piece of fruit) and pow its back again.
I hardly eat any meat in fact I hardly eat much of anything these days I seem to live on peanut butter that I make with huge amounts of fat in (butter and coconut oil) Eggs and cheese that I snack on..

I have no idea what I am doing or where this is going. I just cannot deal with people telling me I am not spiritual enough because of eating butter, eggs cheese etc.. I should be ashamed of myself for these things.
I know my head tells me who are these people who think they are on "gods" right hand side because they no longer eat any animal products and yet are cruel to their fellow man.

As many here know its my biggest hurdle and I have had many.. I know and have been told many times.. Just eat what you need and dont think about those people trying to shame you.. but its not easy.

I would love to know why some people can be very healthy on a meat free diet and others just get ill

I am not a meat eater that would torment a vegan or vegetarian ( we all know them) and my daughter isnt a vegetarian that would shame a meat eater. She tells me to stop trying now and eat what I need and know I have done my best to eat in a way that harms no one..

I will one day sort this out in my head.. That day isnt now though
hi kizzie, I understand... maybe you would feel better by giving up just meat from four legged animals and go on having fish and poultry. Buy directly from small village farms if you can, then at least you know the chickens had a good life. But basically my observation is that our mind programs our body. If I will keep saying to myself that a certain food is good for my body, then the body will accept it and beging to slowly prosper on it. But if your health situation makes it best for you to avoid certain foods, maybe a dietician could help you design a guilt free menu for you, that would also set you on the path to health and would help cure your allergies.
Tell people to shut their mouths, get off the guilt internet threads, listen only to your inner sense of right or wrong. If your inner self says meat is good for you, then you should not feel guilt. If your inner self says meat is wrong, then ask for guidance and take small steps to live without internal conflict. In my opinion, meat is necessary for some people who got used to it or are living in certain climate conditions. Hunters live off what they hunt or catch or gather. I don't know if this kind of people gets self realized but they are living in accordance with natural laws. What your cats are doing is according to natural laws, that is perfectly OK and wild rabbits are pests to the field crops. What is not ok, wrong and evil, is modern man establishing concentration camps to torture and murder animals, to indulge in their overconsumption, just for convenience and taste. Awful and my extended family can have supermarket bought meat for breakfast, at lunch and for dinner too, in almost all their dishes. Totally irresponsible and I was getting sick of it, having to share the food with them and the waste. So I said that's it, no more meat for me, not with you, not alone, not ever. Still eating animal products like milk and eggs but I really don't have time to sit in the kitchen and cook vegan meals all day and the country I live in is cold, vegan is pretty much laughed upon here, it's hard enough to find ready made vegetarian meals already, but some day I might go vegan, who knows
Until then, it's good enough, fuck guilt
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Old 01-03-2016, 01:52 PM   #1794
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and, just look at the 2 week meal plan PETA offers, soy or soy derived products for every meal, wasn't soy hormone altering and cancer promoting?
please vegans, I'd like to have your opinion on all that soy consumption and what do you think of this meal plan?
http://www.peta.org/living/food/two-...gan-meal-plan/
what foods do you live on, how's your health, how much time a day do you spend cooking, do you use supermarket available ingredients or have to shop in specialized health food shops?
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Old 23-06-2016, 10:57 PM   #1795
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This story comes from the


All this vitriol aimed at PETA is from those whose profits suffer when PETA exposes them and their cruel ways.
Not everybody who speaks out against PETA is in the tank of the meat industry or the Center for Consumer Freedom.

Is Nathan Winograd paid by CCF for speaking out against PETA and speaking in favour of "no-kill"? No. In fact, Winograd has made it clear that CCF is not to be trusted.

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http://www.nathanwinograd.com/?p=10978

Frenemies

Go on the website or Facebook page of HumaneWatch or the Center for Consumer Freedom (CCF) and you’ll find a litany of articles and postings attacking the Humane Society of the United States (HSUS) for their hypocrisy and corruption. Not only do they attack HSUS generally, they attack HSUS CEO Wayne Pacelle, specifically. Read Wayne Pacelle’s blog and you’ll see plenty of articles attacking CCF, Humane Watch and their founder, Rick Berman. At first glance, you would think that they are mortal enemies. You’d be wrong. Scratch beneath the superficial surface, dig a little deeper and you’ll see that in fact Wayne Pacelle “loves” and needs Rick Berman. Why? Berman provides him the political cover he needs to avoid accountability and continue to mislead supporters.

Today, the number one cause of death for healthy dogs and cats in the U.S. is the local animal shelter. In spite of this, HSUS will readily admit it is the nation’s biggest cheerleader for these very shelters and it has proven that by defending them publicly even when they abuse and kill animals. They recently gave an award to a shelter which kills 9 out of ten animals and illegally and sadistically puts different species of animals in the gas chamber together to watch them fight before turning on the gas, calling it “A Shelter We Love.”

HSUS also fights reform efforts nationwide, including legislation introduced by animal lovers in several states mandating simple, common sense procedures which would protect shelter animals. HSUS successfully defeated animal protection legislation that would have banned the gas chamber, banned breed discrimination, mandated that shelters not kill animals when non-profit rescue groups are willing to save those animals, and which would have prohibited the common practice of killing animals when there are empty cages, a thoroughly reprehensible sheltering protocol which HSUS endorses unequivocally, while simultaneously disparaging the motives of anyone who questions these actions.

HSUS has a history of referring to people who want to reform deplorable sheltering practices as “divisive” and even “crazy” and asserting that such people hurt animals by creating strife and fostering discontent within the animal protection movement. They also tell their followers that people who criticize them are not animal lovers, but people with a secret agenda to destroy the animal rights movement.

When an animal lover recently wrote HSUS upset that they had betrayed the dogs abused by Michael Vick by lobbying to have them killed and then later embracing their abuser (even urging him to adopt a dog from a shelter), HSUS did not respond to the issue. Instead, they hid behind the CCF, stating,

The misinformation spread by those who oppose our animal protection work is astounding—and the same things you post are ones that our opponents at the so called center for consumer freedom spread. These are people that defend the seal hunt, don’t see puppy mills as a big issue, and while they say it’s good to support your local shelter, back in 08′ over 92% of their funds went to one man, and his PR firm – a man that is also the founder of CCF. An issue like animal protection is bound to have people who disagree, who have conflicts, and that is important as sometimes different perspectives lead to great changes being made. That should not however, mean siding on the side of people trying to defend the very cruelty we are trying to stop.

In other words, while animal lovers were angry that HSUS was given a $50,000 grant by the Philadelphia Eagles for providing political cover for their star quarterback—a sadist who enjoyed beating dogs to death, hanging dogs, drowning dogs in buckets, shooting dogs, repeatedly slamming them to the ground, burying them alive, and attaching jumper cables connected to car batteries to their ears and then throwing them in a swimming pool—HSUS responded by arguing that those who criticized HSUS for their cozy and financially beneficial relationship with Vick are not concerned animal lovers, but people who support puppy mills and seal killers.

In fact, no matter what the issue, HSUS invariably responds to criticism in the same way—by creating a diversion. First they defame those who are holding HSUS accountable for their actions, stating but never giving proof how the concerns are “misinformation” or how, exactly, being concerned that HSUS did something which harmed animals translates into supporting puppy mills or wanting baby seals to be clubbed to death, and then they simply change the subject. They sent a similar statement to someone who complained to them after HSUS sent dogs they claimed to have “rescued” to a shelter which killed them by gassing. Ignore the issue, smear the messenger, then change the subject. It’s an effective sleight of hand used by HSUS over and over again, and is a shield that comes courtesy of the Center for Consumer Freedom.

Providing Pacelle the political cover to deflect criticism is not the only way Pacelle and HSUS manipulate CCF attacks to their own advantage. Playing the wounded innocent whenever the CCF goes on the attack with newspaper or television ads exposing HSUS corruption, HSUS asks their supporters to dig a little deeper to show their support. And invariably they do, not only by donating plenty of money, but often coming to their defense publicly as well. Through blogs, twitter and Facebook, so-called animal lovers duped by HSUS troll the social media, disparaging the motives of anyone—myself included—who criticizes the large national groups such as HSUS, thereby creating unwarranted suspicion of No Kill and those working to create an authentic and uncorrupted animal protection movement.

WHO DO YOU LOVE?
Like every social justice movement that has come before it, the cause of animal protection should be—first and foremost—a movement not of organizations and personalities, but of ideals—a belief in the right of animals to be free of suffering and abuse, and most importantly, to be free to live their lives. These values are the heart of our cause, the reason we exist. Animal protection organizations and the people who work at them are means to this greater end, not the end itself. As I have written so many times before, it is not who is right, but what is right that should dictate our behavior and our allegiance. When individuals and organizations authentically represent the goals of our movement, we should stand by them. When individuals and organizations fail to do so—as HSUS has done over and over again—not only should we expose them for the frauds that they are, our duty to animals dictates that we must.

While I do not embrace or support the Center for Consumer Freedom or what it stands for, that doesn’t change the fact that when it comes to their criticism of HSUS and PETA’s support for shelter killing and in the case of PETA, their own killing of thousands of animals every year, the CCF is correct in their criticism. While the motivations may be entirely base, what they are saying is in fact true, even though on everything else they are entirely wrong: we should ban the Canadian seal slaughter, we should close down puppy mills, we should eliminate the killing of animals for food, and we should ban hunting. To borrow an old saying, even a broken clock is right twice a day.

Moreover, it is not the Center for Consumer Freedom which is thwarting our effort to achieve a No Kill nation or build a better world for companion animals; rather, it is the leaders of organizations who are supposed to protect animals but instead betray them. It is also the legions of gullible grassroots activists who mindlessly come to their defense and eagerly dismiss all criticism of these organizations as a vast conspiracy of animal exploiters, thus allowing those betrayals to continue.

Every time the Center for Consumer Freedom places an ad in a newspaper that exposes the grisly and disturbing truth about PETA’s killing or the truth about HSUS’ fraudulent fundraising, our response should be to address the hypocrisy and corruption being reported. Why? Because, tragically, they are true, and because those actions hurt animals: in the case of PETA because they literally inject thousands of animals a year with a fatal dose of poison and, in the case of HSUS, because they divert money donated with the best of intentions into their bloated coffers where it will be used to undermine, rather than further, the welfare of animals.

Ignoring the corruption within our movement will not make that corruption go away, nor will it ever stop it from causing real harm to animals. Only by refusing to tolerate that corruption and demanding change can we ever hope to do that. Moreover, it is naïve to ignore that it is already well within the power of HSUS (and, for that matter, PETA) to stop the ads that expose their hypocrisy and misdeeds if the leadership of those groups truly wanted to—by simply bringing their corruption to an end. Instead, HSUS has found a clever way to deflect all criticism for their actions so they don’t have to change, so they can continue to fraudulently fundraise, continue to undermine the effort to save the lives of dogs and cats in shelters, and even continue to get those who should be their most vocals critics—grassroots animal activists—to defend them while they do so. Pacelle knowingly serves up ammunition against himself to CCF on a silver platter then uses that same silver platter as a shield to defend himself against valid criticism by arguing that any censure of HSUS is simply part of a vast conspiracy by animal exploiters. That is why—although I am a vegan who believes in animal rights, who believes in an end to the killing of animals for any reason, and who believes in everything that the CCF exists to oppose—I believe defending HSUS (and PETA) for their hypocrisy and corruption hurts animals. The animal protection movement is hypocritical and it is inauthentic in its embrace of the killing of dogs and cats. And too many people who claim to love animals defend these groups anyway, putting their allegiance to organizations and the people who work at them before the very lives of animals.

Indeed, in promoting the corruption of our movement, the CCF has placed themselves in a Catch-22. Were the CCF to actually succeed in forcing reform, the animal protection movement as a whole would grow stronger. Should CCF succeed in reforming those practices of HSUS and PETA of which they are most critical, their success would also be their own loss and the animals’ unequivocal gain. And that is why, in reality, Berman and CCF do not want HSUS or PETA to reform. If they did, they could no longer attack them or the movement for hypocrisy and they would be forced to start fighting on the merits of the cause alone. And as the history of our country demonstrates, we are on the winning side of that debate. Those who work to eliminate the suffering and death of others—to build a kinder, gentler, and more just world—eventually triumph. But how can we get to that point if those in positions of leadership within our own movement are inauthentic, promote killing, and time and again sell out those they are supposed to be protecting? As long as there people in positions of leadership whose actions demonstrate that they do not really care about animals and who continue to sully the reputation and authenticity of the movement that they are supposed to represent, we are hobbled, and the longer animals will continue to suffer and die.

And so my plea to every animal activist who has been schooled to reject any criticism of HSUS as a vast conspiracy by the Center for Consumer Freedom, HumaneWatch, agribusiness or the pharmaceutical industry, is this: do your homework. Decide for yourself if you really want to defend HSUS once you learn about the many ways this group has truly harmed animals, undermined the efforts of those of us who want to bring killing to an end and defended those who systematically kill thousands of animals every year. Educate yourself about the tremendous success the No Kill movement is having in its efforts to protect the lives and well-being of millions of animals every year. And give yourself permission to entertain the notion that you have been misled, and that, like so many movements for social justice that have come before ours, it is in the voices of dissent—in this case, the voices of No Kill advocates—where you find truth and authenticity, and not the halls of power.

With genuine animal lovers at the helm of our nation’s large animal protection groups instead of pretenders like Wayne Pacelle, we could begin to exploit the vast, untapped potential in our society which would allow us to build a better, kinder and gentler world for all animals. Americans deeply love dogs and cats, and consider them cherished members of their families who deserve legal protection. They are ready and willing to give this group of animals their legal rights. And not only will doing so save the lives of millions of dogs, cats and other shelter animals every year, but, just as significant, it will create an important legal foundation which can be leveraged for the benefit of all animals, no matter the species, whatever the manner of exploitation. Right now, Wayne Pacelle is standing in the way of us saving those lives and creating that valuable precedent.

And every time you defend him, you are, too.
Is Heather Harper-Troje paid by the Center for Consumer Freedom every time she speaks out against PETA? Of course not. In fact, she actually worked for PETA.

And would the Center for Consumer Freedom - run by a Zionist - pay me to call PETA a Zionist false flag trying to incite a violent response from Muslims because PETA paid her to wear a veggie burqa and blasphem Islam and nearly got stoned to death? Hell no they wouldn't. If I worked for CCF and tried to make such allegations, Rick Berman would fire me on the spot and accuse me of being a secret PETA agent hired to undermine CCF. See, there's a reason why the Center for Consumer Freedom has never talked about that story, and it's because PETA and the Center for Consumer Freedom are Zionist fronts, and when it comes to Zionism, PETA and CCF are BFFs.

Here's the video neither PETA nor the Center for Consumer Freedom want you to know about. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zqUYWbt7NKg

Look at PETA and HSUS as the Infowars.com of the animal rights movement and Ingrid Newkirk and Wayne Pacelle as the Alex Jones of the animal rights movement. Much like how Alex Jones is paid by the CIA to undermine and discredit the patriot/liberty movement, Ingrid Newkirk and Wayne Pacelle are paid by the CIA as well as the meat lobby to discredit the animal rights movement.

Oh, and why does PETA allow pro-GMO shills to post pro-GMO propaganda on their YouTube videos while I get blocked for calling out the GMO shills as well as PETA for allowing pro-GMO comments to be posted?

And why does HSUS use its publications to promote phony "organic" foods from phony "organic" brands owned by pro-GMO conglomerates who donated to defeat GMO labelling laws in California and Washington?

Quote:
https://dcinfowarrior.wordpress.com/...nesociety-gmo/

HSUS promotes pro-GMO propaganda.

https://veganfuture.files.wordpress....ating-hsus.pdf

Nowhere in the PDF does HSUS advocate seeking out non-GMO foods. In fact, in the “Shopping Suggestions” section, HSUS advocates the purchase of vegetarian foods made by phony “organic” companies which are owned by huge corporations which donated to the campaigns to defeat GMO labelling laws such as Prop 37 (California) and I-522 (State of Washington).

Some of the phony organic companies endorsed by HSUS include:

Lightlife (owned by ConAgra which donated $1,176,700 to defeat Prop 37)
Morningstar Farms and Gardenburger (owned by Kellogg’s which donated $790,700 to defeat Prop 37)
White Wave and Silk (both of which at the time were owned by Dean Foods which donated $253,950 to defeat Prop 37)

(Information previously posted here.)
PETA and HSUS are secret front groups for Monsanto as well as the animal abuse industry.

Last edited by darthchaos; 23-06-2016 at 11:09 PM.
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Old 23-06-2016, 11:11 PM   #1796
darthchaos
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iamhe View Post
and, just look at the 2 week meal plan PETA offers, soy or soy derived products for every meal, wasn't soy hormone altering and cancer promoting?
please vegans, I'd like to have your opinion on all that soy consumption and what do you think of this meal plan?
http://www.peta.org/living/food/two-...gan-meal-plan/
what foods do you live on, how's your health, how much time a day do you spend cooking, do you use supermarket available ingredients or have to shop in specialized health food shops?
Well they allow pro-GMO shills to promote pro-GMO propaganda in the comments sections of their YouTube videos and will block you for questioning why they allow such comments to be posted.

PETA doesn't work for the animals. They work for Monsanto, ConAgra, and Cargill.
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Old 03-03-2017, 03:52 AM   #1797
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I know there have a been a number of articles on veggie and vegan ''meats'' but this is the most interesting update I've seen in months https://www.theguardian.com/sustaina...egetarian-meat
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Why is it that the loudest critics of ''Big Pharma'' are Big Placebo?
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Old 15-03-2017, 12:15 AM   #1798
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Harald kautz-vella scientist journalist in germany says the millions of birds and mammals slaughtered is rituakblack magic sacirifice energy to feed the dark forces that coinbtrokl this planet. Makes sense to me
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