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Old 24-01-2013, 10:22 PM   #41
neilbe
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mark1963 View Post
Enlightenment:

You nailed it, opas, simplicity and satisfaction come close to what I've experienced.

Being in the moment - No 1 for me.

Shaving a length of wood.

Sharing happiness with someone.

Being happy within.

Writing and feeling satisfied at the message, a simple message.

Wishing everyone well, even those who are mentally ill and claim rights over you.

Knowing that every day above ground means it's going to be a good day.

The sun on my face.

The singing of birds.

The pursuit of knowledge for the sake of just knowing.

Laughter, mine and others.

These are some of the things that bring me to me.
I like what you have written here, my only question would be, can you feel this oneness, this joy, this peace and happiness all the time?
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Old 24-01-2013, 10:25 PM   #42
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Doesn't everybody?
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Old 24-01-2013, 10:41 PM   #43
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There are two truths and I believe if everyone understood this we could and would communicate a whole lot better.

There is a relative truth and an ultimate truth.

For example, if I was to say, "every human being is unique" this would be true.

And if I was to say, " all human beings are the same," this is also true.

They sound contradictive at face value, but when you understand the two truths they make perfect sense.

How this fits in to the attainment of enlightenment, or what enlightenment is, I'll leave that to you.
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Old 24-01-2013, 10:48 PM   #44
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A paradox arises when a set of apparently incontrovertible premises gives unacceptable or contradictory conclusions. To solve a paradox will involve either showing that there is a hidden flaw in the premises, or that the reasoning is erroneous, or that the apparently unacceptable conclusion can, in fact, be tolerated.
Toleration's good.
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Old 25-01-2013, 12:14 AM   #45
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Old 25-01-2013, 11:08 AM   #46
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not a nanosecond, a whole six seconds between the actual brain activity and "you" calling it "your" conscious decision! unbelievable!
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Old 25-01-2013, 12:16 PM   #47
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not a nanosecond, a whole six seconds between the actual brain activity and "you" calling it "your" conscious decision! unbelievable!
ROFLMAO!

It's been repeatedly pointed to on this forum for quite some time now, that: your decision to choose to be more awake or not, is totally and completely bullshit! lol

Remember hierophant, as we've said many a time: this fact is very scary and seems laughably absurd and ridiculous to the 'person' who thinks they decide to either agree or disagree with that!

LMAO!

Like I've been saying for a while now, "It's so simple and seems hidden by it's own obviousness".

Or is this fact hidden by an intellectual ignorance?

I dunno...
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Old 25-01-2013, 02:11 PM   #48
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Originally Posted by opas23 View Post
ROFLMAO!

It's been repeatedly pointed to on this forum for quite some time now, that: your decision to choose to be more awake or not, is totally and completely bullshit! lol

Remember hierophant, as we've said many a time: this fact is very scary and seems laughably absurd and ridiculous to the 'person' who thinks they decide to either agree or disagree with that!

LMAO!

Like I've been saying for a while now, "It's so simple and seems hidden by it's own obviousness".

Or is this fact hidden by an intellectual ignorance?

I dunno...
i can see where you're coming from i just wanted to highlight the fact that a whole six seconds makes the "i" look even more ridiculous
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Old 25-01-2013, 02:26 PM   #49
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Default i dont want to be a shadow man

Quote:
Originally Posted by grandmasterp View Post
...........
Be well and be lucky buddy,

i appreciate that.


Quote:
Originally Posted by grandmasterp View Post
...........
hope things turn round for ya over there.

they will. im just bitching. lucky for me i have been in a dark period most of my life and im just now seeing some light and its beautiful. everyone wakes up different, but its frightening to me watching my thoughts and how much i can change my mind just in one day! and then to look deeper, and realize that theres no one in fucking charge! omg!!!! lol





Walking

I see a shadowman walking

Looking from left

To right

Who's that man coming up from behind

Frightened

I see a red shadow frightened

Skimming the wall

The same speed walking

My heart grows small

Shadowman

Shadowman

Running

They're catching up with me

They're screaming

I can't stand to hear it

Shadowman

Shadowman

Shadowman

Run faster

Got to get them off my back

They're going to turn me into darkness

Don't want to be a shadowman

Shadowman

Shadowman

Shadowman


Quote:
Originally Posted by tnt1 View Post
enlightenment is seeing with ancient eyes.
i like that.

and i feel you tnt. i just cant help myself for wanting a better world for us. even now knowing that by looking at all the negatives about our world situation only contributes and adds to the negative vibrations. think mirror, reflection, shadows and its all vibrations. the good news is that because its all vibrations we change them with a strong WILL.

we can change the vibs with imagination. creativity, and abstract thinking. we just have to remember that there is no separation between matter and spirit, and when we start to not just understand this, but also live it, then we willwill see miracles happening.


Last edited by lonestar; 26-01-2013 at 02:57 AM.
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Old 25-01-2013, 05:44 PM   #50
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Default Upstream Of Thought...IT IS!

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i can see where you're coming from i just wanted to highlight the fact that a whole six seconds makes the "i" look even more ridiculous
Exactly, and can you remember a few months ago when we were talking about eye movements and tone of voice etc. also being a dead give away to the keen observer?

You can actually see bodily movements, way before the apparent 'Me' in the other person thinks they just thought about something and are about to tell you.

In fact, they tell you, in this way, before they attempt to speak.

All of this has gone unnoticed in human history {well, not totally unnoticed** and now it seems through quanta and holism, more are aware of it.

Wonder~full!
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Old 26-01-2013, 07:20 AM   #51
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Originally Posted by opas23 View Post
Exactly, and can you remember a few months ago when we were talking about eye movements and tone of voice etc. also being a dead give away to the keen observer?

You can actually see bodily movements, way before the apparent 'Me' in the other person thinks they just thought about something and are about to tell you.

In fact, they tell you, in this way, before they attempt to speak.

All of this has gone unnoticed in human history {well, not totally unnoticed** and now it seems through quanta and holism, more are aware of it.

Wonder~full!
yes, it is wonderful! but... for me, most of these processes happen to fast, and the other thing is, do i really need to analyze what people's behaviour has to say? i think if the meaning of a specific behaviour wants to be recognized by your character, it'll be recognized anyway.

intentional observation may be useful in therapy though...
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Old 26-01-2013, 09:45 AM   #52
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...do i really need to analyze what people's behaviour has to say?
No not at all, but you remember, and we were talking about it within the context of say, a loved one maybe using words to express what they want, whilst the movements could be a representation of what is needed perhaps.

Nothing to 'analyze' as such....just a noticing upstream of something not even themselves are aware of sometimes.

Call it an act of loving attention if you will.
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Old 26-01-2013, 12:17 PM   #53
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Old 26-01-2013, 01:54 PM   #54
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Default 'advaita traps'

awareness / content of awareness: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lxEZnYd7gz0
the ego: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C-B6XE5x9Eg
the mind: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RbENGeWAJ1A
dvaita / a-dvaita: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EcFfiuY-Z2U
free will & choice: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Dyd--49XGY
control: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GO0_dM2Ko_4
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Old 26-01-2013, 03:13 PM   #55
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not a nanosecond, a whole six seconds between the actual brain activity and "you" calling it "your" conscious decision! unbelievable!
Here's another interesting thing....the observer of the experiment, who noticed the brain activity six seconds before the subject appeared to make a decision and claim the act, was also six seconds behind the reporting or realisation of this experiment!

So 12 seconds has elapsed! lol

But let's be clear here: this is still an attempt to measure in words and numbers, something which is believed to be causal, when maybe even that is laughably ridiculous to start with!

Still very fascinating never~the~less.

And completely unknown.
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Old 26-01-2013, 04:04 PM   #56
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Default Freedom TO

There's two excellent threads going on at once here within the same subject and a fascinating investigation of what that subject may or may not be.

I've just had a quick scan of the other wonder~full thread and came across a very interesting post indeed.

It seems that there are certain individuals who consider themselves a particular worded 'state' such as enlightened.

There is also the claim in justification through struggle as in a 'progressive' path where they have dropped something else they call 'ego' etc.

Unfortunately they find it hard trying to live a normal life and can't relate or communicate with certain friends etc.

They have also offered this state to others through a teaching they will lovingly provide.

Be that as it may.

I'd just like to draw the reader's attention to any of my posts over the years where there has never been any claim to own any state, especially enlightenment.

Another difference in my message is that I do not prescribe what to do, but only attempt to describe what is impossible to fit into words and understanding.

I am not enlightened in this sense of the word and I am not an enlightened person within this context.

All of my posts are not about eventually getting somewhere or gaining a lonely freedom from something, but rather this message is about the celebration of freedom to....to be, all inclusive.

This maybe seen as a distinction between what expectancy can be put onto a 'state' rather than life already and actually being.

No road, path, process, purpose, striving, gaining, owning....just simply what's already occurring....as it's apparently happening.

I wish the person on the other thread all the very best of wishes and hope they can find a way in their hearts to relate and get involved with their friends conversations about every day life within the so called matrix they claimed to have dropped etc.

In short; one message offers something for sale, whilst another message cannot offer what already is: life, as it is.

One message is very popular, and the other completely radical.

Either way {or wayless way** it's no one's choice whether or not to be, or not be completely confused!

Namaste.
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Old 26-01-2013, 04:36 PM   #57
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Oh, someone is back...

Anyways...
Right now doesn't feel like making words and noise about the ineffable...

But this song is quite to the point:


Complexity of the maze, beautiful from the above...



__________________
"Einsicht – dass jeder seine Fehler hat,
und Weitsicht – das Leben findet nicht nur heute statt,
und Vorsicht – dass man den andern nicht zerbricht."
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Old 26-01-2013, 04:45 PM   #58
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They this, they that, they the other.

There is no Them and Us

Mitakuye oyasin.

Love
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Old 26-01-2013, 08:02 PM   #59
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Originally Posted by opas23 View Post
T

How else can this 'enlightenment' be recognised if I don't know what it may be before hand and may miss it when it comes without the initial idea.
Well, as Margot Ridler said in her all her videos, enlightenment is the dissolution of the I. Tony Parsons agrees. Enlightenment is the death of the I. Here's a quote from TP's book, The Open Secret:

" What happened is simply beyond description. I can only adequately say in words that total stillness and presence seemed to descend over everything. All and everything became timeless and I no longer existed. I vanished and there was no longer and experiencer."
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Old 26-01-2013, 10:55 PM   #60
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Well, as Margot Ridler said in her all her videos, enlightenment is the dissolution of the I. Tony Parsons agrees. Enlightenment is the death of the I. Here's a quote from TP's book, The Open Secret:

" What happened is simply beyond description. I can only adequately say in words that total stillness and presence seemed to descend over everything. All and everything became timeless and I no longer existed. I vanished and there was no longer and experiencer."
Hey alisa2,

It's been a long time, how are you?

So, back to the point at hand:~ the Tony Parsons' quote may be an out of context one, because that quote was in reference to what he called his initial awakening from which he explains was then lost and seeking took over and he clearly then goes on to explain the 'I' came back.

Later on, he describes liberation apparently happening which, for him, he made distinct and clear differences between the two words.

But I have to both agree and disagree with the whole notion of the 'I' disappearing because I'm more of a 'me' or 'I' now than I ever was but without any attachment to the apparent old idea of 'me' or 'I' which is no longer separate and in that sense seems to have vanished.

The question seems to linger; if the 'I' is completely and always insubstantial then how can it die if never born?

But it's a radical severance from any individuated and separate seeker which desired it's own demise which has dropped.

So, yes, and not yes!

All the best,

Opas23.
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