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Old 06-02-2012, 08:43 AM   #81
the_ohmbudsman
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Originally Posted by decode reality View Post
In truth movement circles, there's often the cries of 'FREE YOUR MIND!!' 'fluoride is dumbing down people!', "the pharmaceutical companies are the medical mafia" 'oppose aspartame in the drinks', 'E numbers', 'chemtrails, aaargh!! Where's me bunker?!'. Oh and the one about "we are not the body, we're spiritual beings on a human journey"

Yet from the same circles, it seems that the most destructive of drugs would be "legalised" at the drop of a hat. From this I guess the only perceived problem with e.g. heroin under the current system is that the slaves get arrested and the slaves don't make any money out of it.

And of course it's fine for any person or their partners, children and friends to use drugs; they're obviously dumb robots who haven't the ability to deal with life's challenges without resorting to becoming junkies - it's the only way out, right? Just as long as they don't get arrested.

"Free your mind", huh? Hmm.
Good to see u back Decode

If you eat cream cakes all day you'll end up ill and probably die, same as sausages and bacon and so on but these substances arn't banned. It's all about responsible use. Some people do eat all day and some get very ill!

All these currently illegal drugs; coke, speed, heroine, ecstasy, cannabis etc all have different functions and effects and can all be used to get "out of your head!" and some are highly addictive. But they are not all the same. The issue is not necasarily legalising them all but decriminlising them. People are going to take them anyway and isn't it better they do so in a safer situation than them being illegal and run by criminals?

We have to examine the social conditions as well that cultivate heroine use, that many people take this to help them cope with social dysfunctions caused by poverty. Possibly the legacy of Labours encouragement of single parent families are reaping a harvest of new drug addicts - kids with no foundation and no fathers?

Apparently the Portuguese decriminalization of drugs has worked...
http://www.time.com/time/health/arti...893946,00.html

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Old 06-02-2012, 08:44 AM   #82
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I don't know about legalizing everything in the sense of crack and smack being available at the corner store like booze, which incidentally is a very hardcore drug too if heavily abused, it ravages vital organs like the liver, and sudden withdrawal can even be more dangerous than heroin withdrawal, because of potential for seizures, But I am in favor of decriminalizing. Many heroin addicts are able to live normal lives on prescribed medications such as buprenorphine (it is somewhat novel in that it has agonist and antagonist properties, so rapid tolerance isn't as much of a problem as with other opioids including methadone), Some use it to gradually withdraw, some are maintained on it. There are medications that can help cocaine addicts as well, modafini seems to block coke cravings and can help with depressive withdrawal symptoms. I consider it criminally negligent, that many of these treatments are not accessible to working class and the poor, only to the professional classes with deep pockets (which also affords them a way out of prison via legal representation if they are "busted"). Addiction is a medical issue, not criminal.
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Old 06-02-2012, 08:53 AM   #83
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I don't know about legalizing everything in the sense of crack and smack being available at the corner store like booze, which incidentally is a very hardcore drug too if heavily abused, it ravages vital organs like the liver, and sudden withdrawal can even be more dangerous than heroin withdrawal, because of potential for seizures, But I am in favor of decriminalizing. Many heroin addicts are able to live normal lives on prescribed medications such as buprenorphine (it is somewhat novel in that it has agonist and antagonist properties, so rapid tolerance isn't as much of a problem as with other opioids including methadone), Some use it to gradually withdraw, some are maintained on it. There are medications that can help cocaine addicts as well, modafini seems to block coke cravings and can help with depressive withdrawal symptoms. I consider it criminally negligent, that many of these treatments are not accessible to working class and the poor, only to the professional classes with deep pockets (which also affords them a way out of prison via legal representation if they are "busted"). Addiction is a medical issue, not criminal.
I think the issue that Professor Nutt is making is that all these drugs are not the same and not all destructive all the time, it's the way they are used or abused!!! MDMA/Ecstasy was used before being banned as a highly effective tool in psycho-therapy but since it's restriction all research was stopped, and a lot of "knee jerk research" was used to justify it being demonised. Under current law research into MDMA ceased - though I think a few research people have been given licence to look into it in recent years.

There is the possibility that MDMA could be used to treat addicts in the right situation?


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Old 06-02-2012, 09:02 AM   #84
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Originally Posted by decode reality View Post
In truth movement circles, there's often the cries of 'FREE YOUR MIND!!' 'fluoride is dumbing down people!', "the pharmaceutical companies are the medical mafia" 'oppose aspartame in the drinks', 'E numbers', 'chemtrails, aaargh!! Where's me bunker?!'. Oh and the one about "we are not the body, we're spiritual beings on a human journey"

Yet from the same circles, it seems that the most destructive of drugs would be "legalised" at the drop of a hat. From this I guess the only perceived problem with e.g. heroin under the current system is that the slaves get arrested and the slaves don't make any money out of it.

And of course it's fine for any person or their partners, children and friends to use drugs; they're obviously dumb robots who haven't the ability to deal with life's challenges without resorting to becoming junkies - it's the only way out, right? Just as long as they don't get arrested.

"Free your mind", huh? Hmm.
Seriously? Reread what you just wrote. Freeing your mind involves FREEING YOUR MIND. As in, freeing your mind from societies imposed false hierarchical systems, false monetary system, and false laws restricting your ability to function in altered states through your own will. Nobody that says drugs should be legalized WANTS to be an addict or WANTS others to be addicts or WANTS "addiction" to exist. But they DO realize that losing your freedom because a corrupt bunch of bastards decided they didn't want to lose out on their medicine money (big pharma) and made PLANTS illegal. Ayahuasca, DMT, and LSD, when used under the proper conditions, are USUALLY what wake people up to the control system. Weed is more commonly used but since that is the case, people just think they live a double life of "smoking a little weed on the side" while toeing the line of society. When they experience a SERIOUSLY altered state like that of a psychedelic, your ego dissolves and you see yourself, society and the things around you for what they truly are. Do you think these drug are illegal "just because" the people in control don't want you "hurting yourself"? These are the same people that will kick down your door in SWAT gear if they somehow get word you have "a plant or two" in your house and will shoot your damn dog. Hell, they did it to a mayor in Baltimore. They don't care about you. They care about keeping people sick, keeping people dumb and glued to the TV, and keeping people in line, and when you begin to awaken to you "infinite awareness" as David puts it, you realize that's the reason hallucinogens and perfectly SAFE substances like marijuana are illegal.

You've got a huge chip on your shoulder if you think everyone that "uses drugs" is a junkie or will become one.
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Old 06-02-2012, 09:21 AM   #85
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Originally Posted by the_ohmbudsman View Post

There is the possibility that MDMA could be used to treat addicts in the right situation?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cf0NzQKcvEg
That's possible, in a therapeutic context (as opposed to recreational), I'm not well versed on MDMA to be frank, but I'll watch the video to learn more, thanks
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Old 06-02-2012, 09:41 AM   #86
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Seriously? Reread what you just wrote. Freeing your mind involves FREEING YOUR MIND. As in, freeing your mind from societies imposed false hierarchical systems, false monetary system, and false laws restricting your ability to function in altered states through your own will. Nobody that says drugs should be legalized WANTS to be an addict or WANTS others to be addicts or WANTS "addiction" to exist. But they DO realize that losing your freedom because a corrupt bunch of bastards decided they didn't want to lose out on their medicine money (big pharma) and made PLANTS illegal. Ayahuasca, DMT, and LSD, when used under the proper conditions, are USUALLY what wake people up to the control system. Weed is more commonly used but since that is the case, people just think they live a double life of "smoking a little weed on the side" while toeing the line of society. When they experience a SERIOUSLY altered state like that of a psychedelic, your ego dissolves and you see yourself, society and the things around you for what they truly are. Do you think these drug are illegal "just because" the people in control don't want you "hurting yourself"? These are the same people that will kick down your door in SWAT gear if they somehow get word you have "a plant or two" in your house and will shoot your damn dog. Hell, they did it to a mayor in Baltimore. They don't care about you. They care about keeping people sick, keeping people dumb and glued to the TV, and keeping people in line, and when you begin to awaken to you "infinite awareness" as David puts it, you realize that's the reason hallucinogens and perfectly SAFE substances like marijuana are illegal.

You've got a huge chip on your shoulder if you think everyone that "uses drugs" is a junkie or will become one.
Thanks for your reply.
I've re-read my post and read yours and I stick to everything I wrote.
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Old 06-02-2012, 09:49 AM   #87
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That's possible, in a therapeutic context (as opposed to recreational), I'm not well versed on MDMA to be frank, but I'll watch the video to learn more, thanks
MDMA is also VERY useful in therapy for getting rid of PTSD. It can take only one session with a guiding therapist to get rid of ALL symptoms.

http://www.time.com/time/health/arti...004887,00.html
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Old 06-02-2012, 09:52 AM   #88
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Thanks for your reply.
I've re-read my post and read yours and I stick to everything I wrote.
Ooookay, have fun in the box and missing out on the fruits of the earth because some people who got together and called themselves the "FDA" decided nobody could use them, then patent their molecular structures and sell them to you (marinol).
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Old 06-02-2012, 10:15 AM   #89
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That's possible, in a therapeutic context (as opposed to recreational), I'm not well versed on MDMA to be frank, but I'll watch the video to learn more, thanks
The problem is when something like ecstasy/MDMA is illegal, that means criminal gangs control it who sell pills that are often mixed with speed and other impurities and in many cases not even MDMA, then this has the knock on effect of the user taking more drugs and a cocktail of drugs and they end up dead! Many people have died from a cocktail of drugs and then the Media have blaimed it on Ecstasy in order to bolster up the case that it destroys your brain and is a killer! Actually what happens if MDMA could be used to solve wars by getting people round the table and seeing things from the others side? Who knows?

http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/20...rain-new-study

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Old 06-02-2012, 10:20 AM   #90
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Thanks for your reply.
I've re-read my post and read yours and I stick to everything I wrote.
I see what you are saying about Heroin but just because someone uses other drugs doesn't lead to becoming a Heroin or crack addict. Lsd can help people see through the robot society! Fact is the government want to keep us watching trash TV in our little boxes, paying off massive debts on our "make belief money" credit cards - drugs that make you see through it are banned and people made to feel paranoid!

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Old 06-02-2012, 11:15 AM   #91
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The main reason or one of them , no legalization has a chance currently in america. Is my best case rough math says it will put around 15 million people out of work .
The often overlooked thing is , that if companies can ban users of legal substances like tobacco from using it while employed . It can do the same for anything else chemical wise. Sort of a pointless victory if one can not afford to be unemployed . So biff and buffy won't have to pay daddy's attorney to hush up their reefer madness fuckfest partay any more. The working class yobbos won't be able to lose their jobs or pay the fucko mart prices for them . Ya'll think drugs is spensive nao ? Wait till fucko mart is the only legal seller of said substances which will all have a DNA tagging "insert substance" to prove their legality in a court of law .
Along with letting around 1.4 million people out of prison and another 3.5 million people off fascist supervision . Simply not going too happen.

The remote possibility I see is DNA tagging of substances which will be legal to consume . Leaving the war on drugs intact and letting the 1 % at the top do all the drugs they like with no fear.
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Old 06-02-2012, 11:29 AM   #92
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Originally Posted by the_ohmbudsman View Post
I think the issue that Professor Nutt is making is that all these drugs are not the same and not all destructive all the time, it's the way they are used or abused!!! MDMA/Ecstasy was used before being banned as a highly effective tool in psycho-therapy but since it's restriction all research was stopped, and a lot of "knee jerk research" was used to justify it being demonised. Under current law research into MDMA ceased - though I think a few research people have been given licence to look into it in recent years.

There is the possibility that MDMA could be used to treat addicts in the right situation?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cf0NzQKcvEg
Great link, cheers

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"The problem was, that people where using the drug without problem"
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Old 06-02-2012, 11:30 AM   #93
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If I ruled the world, I would make it mandatory to add MDMA to ALL the worlds water supply. What a different world that would be.
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Old 06-02-2012, 04:35 PM   #94
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Good to see u back Decode

If you eat cream cakes all day you'll end up ill and probably die, same as sausages and bacon and so on but these substances arn't banned. It's all about responsible use. Some people do eat all day and some get very ill!

All these currently illegal drugs; coke, speed, heroine, ecstasy, cannabis etc all have different functions and effects and can all be used to get "out of your head!" and some are highly addictive. But they are not all the same. The issue is not necasarily legalising them all but decriminlising them. People are going to take them anyway and isn't it better they do so in a safer situation than them being illegal and run by criminals?

We have to examine the social conditions as well that cultivate heroine use, that many people take this to help them cope with social dysfunctions caused by poverty. Possibly the legacy of Labours encouragement of single parent families are reaping a harvest of new drug addicts - kids with no foundation and no fathers?

Apparently the Portuguese decriminalization of drugs has worked...
http://www.time.com/time/health/arti...893946,00.html
Yes, nice to be back...at the moment. It could all change!

In reference to the food comparison you made:
I've yet to hear of people committing muggings to fund their addiction to cream cakes and sausages. Not even in the Daily Mail. There again, they put so many additives in food that I guess the phrase is 'watch this space', as t'were.

The article about Portugal is interesting. It's a step in the right direction. I just disagree with the idea that taking the stuff has any benefits at all.

Now if you'll excuse me, I said I'd be at the crackhouse an hour ago, and I need to top up my supply.
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Old 06-02-2012, 07:21 PM   #95
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If I ruled the world, I would make it mandatory to add MDMA to ALL the worlds water supply. What a different world that would be.
Maybe we should take over the only cafe in a small village as an experiment! Then the world...
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Old 06-02-2012, 07:32 PM   #96
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Maybe we should take over the only cafe in a small village as an experiment! Then the world...
I like your thinking Mr...
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Old 06-02-2012, 07:50 PM   #97
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Yes, nice to be back...at the moment. It could all change!

In reference to the food comparison you made:
I've yet to hear of people committing muggings to fund their addiction to cream cakes and sausages. Not even in the Daily Mail. There again, they put so many additives in food that I guess the phrase is 'watch this space', as t'were.

The article about Portugal is interesting. It's a step in the right direction. I just disagree with the idea that taking the stuff has any benefits at all.

Now if you'll excuse me, I said I'd be at the crackhouse an hour ago, and I need to top up my supply.
Back for a bit of promotion/plugging!

As far as my analogy goes some people do eat cream cakes/fatty foods to excess and end up with obesity and diabetes leading to death by heart attack. So some drugs can lead to this - I took heroin about twice and no more and tried crack a few times and I did not carry on and become an addict! So we don't all become mugging crack addicts!

Each to his own! I don't take any illegal drugs but I don't think users should be sent to prison, that's just for starters!

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