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Old 26-06-2010, 04:47 PM   #1
pezza19
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Default Electricity.

Heya guys, I'm 20 years old, study computer animation at Uni.

I'm really interested in Nikola Tesla but not only that, just electricity in general.

I want to start learning about electricity and want to first create a solar panel and then a wind turbine, I eventuallywant to build a charge controller to protect my batteries.

Even if I can boil a kettle from my own creation I will have that fuzzy feeling inside.

I think we take too much for granted these days, someday I'd like to be independant.

I want to get a good foothold in electricity, and would eventully liek to start testing more advanced things, like theories behind electromagnetism and other alternative energy sources.

Combustable energy doesnt interest me, but free clean energy does.






What I'm after is someone to talk to who is expereinced with electricity, I've got alot of books but I'd like t have someone to explai a few things once in a while?

Like a teacher or something?
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Old 26-06-2010, 04:50 PM   #2
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I want answers to questions like.

What is meant by a deep cycle battery?

Will a Car Battery work??? because I have them at hand.

What does a Battery mean By 72Ah ??? 75 Amps per Hour? but how do I know how much it can store?

If I have 10 solar cells, harnessing 1watt each, so they are making 10 watts
is that 10 watts per second or ? how does that work.

If i'm getting 12 volts at 2amps,
thats 24watts right? per second???? or what???
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Old 26-06-2010, 04:51 PM   #3
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I have no clue, but I'm subbing so I can learn, too
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Old 26-06-2010, 05:19 PM   #4
pezza19
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Yay =)

I've also been thinking of putting a big container on my grandma's garage roof, plumbng some plastic pipe onto it and routing it past a little hydro electric turbine, waiting for it to fill up with rain water, reroute the gutter from my parents garage (it's a big sloped roof), then having a valve to release the water once the container is full.

Other things I wanna do, i took an altenator out of a washing machien I found and wanna hook it upto a bike pedal system.
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Old 26-06-2010, 05:20 PM   #5
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If I ever realise my dream of buying a house in the French countryside, I want to be as self-suifficient as possible and utilise as many of Tesla's and Reich's inventions as possible. End result, being off the grid
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Old 27-06-2010, 09:12 PM   #6
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Old 27-06-2010, 09:25 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pezza19 View Post
Heya guys, I'm 20 years old, study computer animation at Uni.

I'm really interested in Nikola Tesla but not only that, just electricity in general.

I want to start learning about electricity and want to first create a solar panel and then a wind turbine, I eventuallywant to build a charge controller to protect my batteries.

Even if I can boil a kettle from my own creation I will have that fuzzy feeling inside.

I think we take too much for granted these days, someday I'd like to be independant.

I want to get a good foothold in electricity, and would eventully liek to start testing more advanced things, like theories behind electromagnetism and other alternative energy sources.

Combustable energy doesnt interest me, but free clean energy does.






What I'm after is someone to talk to who is expereinced with electricity, I've got alot of books but I'd like t have someone to explai a few things once in a while?

Like a teacher or something?
This might help
http://books.google.com/books?id=uBa...page&q&f=false
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Old 27-06-2010, 10:11 PM   #8
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I've owned several copies of this book over the years. Very good entry point for experimenters.
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Old 27-06-2010, 10:35 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by pezza19 View Post
I want answers to questions like.

What is meant by a deep cycle battery?
Lead acid batteries are made with plates of lead hanging in a tank of sulfuric acid. Deep cycle battery plates are thicker, so that the chemistry has more "mass" behind it. Small suface area per volume of lead. At the opposite extreme are "cyclon" batteries (a brand, and type) made with spiral wound electrodes of lead mesh - large surface area per volume.

Deep cycle batteries are made to be discharged deeper without damage. If you've ever left the lights on in your car and the battery no longer takes a charge, that's precisely the damage deep cycle batteries are made to resist.

Quote:
Will a Car Battery work??? because I have them at hand.
Excellent starting point for experimentation. Wear heavy rubber gloves and safety goggles when you open the caps to check your electrolyte levels. Keep baking soda (not baking powder) on hand to neutralize acid spills. Get a set of alligator clip leads, and have one with an in-line fuse that's always part of the battery's leads. Get a cheap digital multimeter if you don't have one. If you have a surplus electronics parts dealer in your area try to find "panel meters" for volts and amps - give them alligator clip leads and you have some good test bench gear to keep track of things.


Quote:
What does a Battery mean By 72Ah ??? 75 Amps per Hour? but how do I know how much it can store?
A 72Ah battery will put out 1 amp for 72 hours, but usually will not put out 72 amps for one full hour - the rating is based on a given discharge rate (like 4 hour rate, for example) and the relationship is not totally linear. Heavier-plate batteries will deplete faster under heavy loads, but the chemistry will "recharge" a bit after it rests - exactly what you want for starting a car.

Watts = volts x amps, so a 12v 72Ah battery can store 864 watts. The faster you pull them out the less of them you can have. The slower you pull them out, the more of them you can have.

Quote:
If I have 10 solar cells, harnessing 1watt each, so they are making 10 watts
is that 10 watts per second or ? how does that work.
Watts are watts, watts over time are watt-seconds. Don't worry about watt-seconds.

Quote:
If i'm getting 12 volts at 2amps,
thats 24watts right? per second???? or what???
Yes, 12v x 2A = 24W.

This will help you understand how some of the numbers relate to one another. I have an "ohm's law circle" written on my shop desk with magic marker, and keep a calculator handy.

Last edited by apollo_gnomon; 27-06-2010 at 10:38 PM.
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Old 28-06-2010, 05:02 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by apollo_gnomon View Post
Lead acid batteries are made with plates of lead hanging in a tank of sulfuric acid. Deep cycle battery plates are thicker, so that the chemistry has more "mass" behind it. Small suface area per volume of lead. At the opposite extreme are "cyclon" batteries (a brand, and type) made with spiral wound electrodes of lead mesh - large surface area per volume.

Deep cycle batteries are made to be discharged deeper without damage. If you've ever left the lights on in your car and the battery no longer takes a charge, that's precisely the damage deep cycle batteries are made to resist.


Excellent starting point for experimentation. Wear heavy rubber gloves and safety goggles when you open the caps to check your electrolyte levels. Keep baking soda (not baking powder) on hand to neutralize acid spills. Get a set of alligator clip leads, and have one with an in-line fuse that's always part of the battery's leads. Get a cheap digital multimeter if you don't have one. If you have a surplus electronics parts dealer in your area try to find "panel meters" for volts and amps - give them alligator clip leads and you have some good test bench gear to keep track of things.



A 72Ah battery will put out 1 amp for 72 hours, but usually will not put out 72 amps for one full hour - the rating is based on a given discharge rate (like 4 hour rate, for example) and the relationship is not totally linear. Heavier-plate batteries will deplete faster under heavy loads, but the chemistry will "recharge" a bit after it rests - exactly what you want for starting a car.

Watts = volts x amps, so a 12v 72Ah battery can store 864 watts. The faster you pull them out the less of them you can have. The slower you pull them out, the more of them you can have.


Watts are watts, watts over time are watt-seconds. Don't worry about watt-seconds.


Yes, 12v x 2A = 24W.

This will help you understand how some of the numbers relate to one another. I have an "ohm's law circle" written on my shop desk with magic marker, and keep a calculator handy.


Awesome thanks alot apollo, Yeh I have a car battery, a volt metre, but not a digital metre as you spoke of. I will definitly have a look at the book you recommended. I've also bookmarked and wrote down ohm's law, Thats basically the foundation of all electric by the looks of it.

I've took appart an electric fan and can see, coils of wire and magnets I think.
There is the stator, and the rotar, and then wires that transfer the electric. when I give it a spin I start getting some current on teh volt metre.

it's exciting to see yourself making power. I've been looking to buy some cheap solar panels, and then I'm gonna wire em up once i work it out, and thats gonna be the basis of getting power into my battery.

I think there needs to be some kind of control unit to make sure the battery doesnt overcharge, and that will be more complicated. I've also started thinkig about frequency and things but until I'm more advanced I dont think I will be able to look into frequency and waves and things.
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Old 28-06-2010, 11:22 PM   #11
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Frequency is irrelevant for charging batteries - just cut your teeth on DC (direct current) and learn how Ohm's law works all the way around the circle and you'll be pretty well off for energy experiments.

Analog volt meters have their place - you can clip one into a charging rig and monitor things without eating batteries. But for accuracy and easy reading, get a decent digital. There are inexpensive chinese knock-offs of higher end units that are quite good. I have 2 of them, and a used Fluke I found in a pawn shop, plus an assortment analog multimeters and panel meters I've found over the years. More meters are better - when monitoring an experimental battery charger it's good to keep an eye on battery voltage and amperage draw at the same time.

Check out this guy's project - http://www.otherpower.com/pmg2.html A wooden alternator!

Have fun, stay safe, keep learning!
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Old 29-06-2010, 10:18 AM   #12
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Nicola Tesla said everything is frequency.....

when you pass a magnet past a copper coil it "collects" a pulse of magnetic energy

the electron was invented back in 1896
the neutron was invented some decades later to satisfy the mathematicians to balance the mass equation.

I have devices that show when you split DC current that device doesnt work...
further experiments show 16 phases to DC... if you study the water in a stream you will find it repeats its wash pattern every 16 bends.... gold isnt found on every bend....

tell me why when you place a wire from the 110V (or 220) power socket into water it shorts out the circuit because of current overload

But

if you make a coil of the wire it will heat the water.... (an electric jug)

so just what does this spiralling of the wire have to do with current use?

until all you electrical genius's can answer why a coil heats water but a length of wire shorts out, you really dont have credibility to understand the the true nature of energy...

Last edited by elpressiedente; 29-06-2010 at 10:19 AM.
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Old 29-06-2010, 02:57 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elpressiedente View Post
Nicola Tesla said everything is frequency.....

when you pass a magnet past a copper coil it "collects" a pulse of magnetic energy

the electron was invented back in 1896
the neutron was invented some decades later to satisfy the mathematicians to balance the mass equation.

I have devices that show when you split DC current that device doesnt work...
further experiments show 16 phases to DC... if you study the water in a stream you will find it repeats its wash pattern every 16 bends.... gold isnt found on every bend....

tell me why when you place a wire from the 110V (or 220) power socket into water it shorts out the circuit because of current overload

But

if you make a coil of the wire it will heat the water.... (an electric jug)

so just what does this spiralling of the wire have to do with current use?

until all you electrical genius's can answer why a coil heats water but a length of wire shorts out, you really dont have credibility to understand the the true nature of energy...
I'm not trying to be argumentative with the OP, I'm trying to help. Tesla's work with high-frequency alternating current was fascinating, but won't help a beginning experimenter charge a battery.

If you want to wave your arms around angrily and spout pseudo-scientific nonsense, that's great. There are many threads in the forum dedicated to that type of conversation. This isn't one of them.

Quote:
when you pass a magnet past a copper coil it "collects" a pulse of magnetic energy
Actually, the magnetic field induces a movement of electrons in the metal.


Quote:
the electron was invented back in 1896
the neutron was invented some decades later to satisfy the mathematicians to balance the mass equation.
You come in acting like Mister-know-it-all, but you have basic facts wrong. The proton balances the charge. The neutron is neutral, hence the name. The word you're looking for is "discovered" not "invented." If you refuse to believe the underlying science of basic physics and electricity, I recommend not using your computer or cellphone.

Quote:
I have devices that show when you split DC current that device doesnt work...
This statement doesn't make any sense, perhaps more information would clarify your point.

Quote:
further experiments show 16 phases to DC...
Okay.... if you say so. References please?

Quote:
if you study the water in a stream you will find it repeats its wash pattern every 16 bends.... gold isnt found on every bend....
And this has nothing to do with the subject at hand, which is how an experimenter can learn some basic information to use with energy storage projects.

Quote:
tell me why when you place a wire from the 110V (or 220) power socket into water it shorts out the circuit because of current overload

But

if you make a coil of the wire it will heat the water.... (an electric jug)

so just what does this spiralling of the wire have to do with current use?
It allows you to put a longer wire in the same package, in this case. The wire used for toaster coils, electric ranges and hot-pots is not copper, but a nickle-chromium alloy with higher resistance. Resistance to current flow creates heat. A copper wire shoved into a mains socket and dropped in a bathtub "shorts" because the low resistance allows very very high current flow.


Quote:
until all you electrical genius's can answer why a coil heats water but a length of wire shorts out, you really dont have credibility to understand the the true nature of energy...
Perhaps you need to examine your preconceived notions and ask yourself why you feel the need to thread-jack a perfectly rational conversation with belligerent nonsense. If you want learn the "true nature" of energy it would behoove you to first understand some elementary science.

This thread does not need input like the post above. That does not increase the knowledge of humanity, but denies knowledge. Truth-seeking does not require you to blanket-dismiss scientific information. That's the opposite of an open mind.

Please contribute in a more helpful manner.

Last edited by apollo_gnomon; 29-06-2010 at 02:58 PM.
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Old 29-06-2010, 04:11 PM   #14
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Thanks alot Guys, Please lets not argue, I do believe theres more to electricity than we know, and we can learn alot from nature around us.

I need to start at the bottom, and learn how to charge a battery, generate electrcity, and wire things up and create a circuit before, I can start more advanced things like

the tesla coil for example.

I'm buying a little permenant magnet motor soon to have a bash at getting a little wind turbine up and running, I'll post more again thanks alot appreciate any input.
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Old 29-06-2010, 04:44 PM   #15
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Here's an everyday example of a Tesla coil in use -- your automobile uses one to generate spark voltage. This application uses DC, not high frequency AC, but the principle is the same. 12vdc from the battery loads a coil, which generates a magnetic field. Like an electromagnet. The breaker-points (in older non-electronic systems) disconnect the power to the coil, the magnetic field collapses, and induces a current in the other coil within the package (like the pair of coils in a "wall-wart" transformer). The coil ratio is usually on the order of 1,000:1, so the 12vdc becomes a 12,000vdc spike to create the ignition spark.

For high-voltage experiments people sometimes start with ignition coils, then wind their own coils when they know what they need. Neon-signs and microwave ovens also have good high-ratio transformers that can be salvaged and used to make scary crazy high-voltage.

I've never played with high voltage, I get in enough trouble with DC and Line voltage AC, but I recently scrapped out a microwave and kept the transformer.

Here's an example of a home-made wind turbine project
http://www.mdpub.com/Wind_Turbine/

I tried making one using a motor salvaged from a cordless tool, but the rpm from the blades were too low at normal wind speeds around here. The motor he uses has lower interal friction, too, so lower wind speeds will actually turn it. My motor required too much torque to get it turning. Gearing up between the blades and the motor would increase the RPM to the motor, but would increase the torque requirements. Poo. I scrapped the whole thing and put the remains in parts bins in my lab.

Here's a bit of info about charging lead-acid batteries to get you started
http://www.batteryuniversity.com/partone-13.htm

Pay attention to the voltage-per-plate requirements. I've killed expensive batteries by both over and under charging them.
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Old 29-06-2010, 10:25 PM   #16
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the topic is hidden science and advanced technology

Im sure Tesla bounced electrons off the ionisphere when he "transmitted electricity" without wires to light up electrical devices many miles away....

I didnt thread jack....... i responded to ......

Heya guys, I'm 20 years old, study computer animation at Uni.

I'm really interested in Nikola Tesla but not only that, just electricity in general.

So to tweak his interest I basicly started out with the fact that just like everything else in this world even chemistry and physics which includes electricity may just be totally wrong and the conspiracy is.... like the forum states... the truth of what the nature of matter and energy is might be totally different to what they teach in schools.


Damn people are quick to put down in here......
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Old 30-06-2010, 04:54 AM   #17
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Originally Posted by elpressiedente View Post
So to tweak his interest I basicly started out with the fact that just like everything else in this world even chemistry and physics which includes electricity may just be totally wrong and the conspiracy is.... like the forum states... the truth of what the nature of matter and energy is might be totally different to what they teach in schools.
While it may be that the nature of matter and energy is different than the accepted academic models, in practice the stuff they teach works. I've been playing with electrons since 1982, and I'll tell ya, they do what the book says they'll do in all the things I've tried. Sometimes you have to go with what works. The truth-seekers who figured this stuff out the first time had names the electronics student will learn as units of measurement -- Watt, Ohm, Coulomb, Faraday, Henry -- All of these guys discovered things that flew in the face of the academic models of the time. Just because they're taught in today's books doesn't mean they're part of some vast ancient conspiracy to trick you out of free lunch.

Quote:
Damn people are quick to put down in here......
No put down intended, sir, but many posters on this forum are pretty quick to jump in and dismiss common knowledge without thinking. It seems to be a knee jerk reaction.

Perhaps we could simply tidy up the threads and keep one line of thought here, and another over there, if ya know what I mean. I think our OP's interest is already tweaked, as he has posted in this thread and in the one on free energy in this subforum.

I'd like to answer the OP's basic questions about basic electricity here. The understanding gained by hobby experimenting with simple DC battery-load-charge systems might give him the fundamentals to go further, and perhaps explore some of the high-frequency stuff Tesla played with. Who knows, maybe he'll be the guy to finally get some free lunch out of the universe.

It's best to crawl before walking, and interstellar flight comes WAY after running, if you can follow that metaphor to the point of absurdity.

Best regards, elpressiedente, and no hostility intended.
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Old 30-06-2010, 11:11 AM   #18
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I think we take too much for granted these days, someday I'd like to be independant.
Thats the spirit!

Just ask your questions as you go along there are loads of people on here with relevant experience and knowledge that will answer your questions, some will feed your brain with alternative ideas and others will give you cutting edge science explanations.

It is good here.

For my self I got a degree in Broadcast Engineering from Liverpool JM Universitywhere I studied the BEng Power Systems as a course module option.(at the time I was the only student to ever have taken the module as an option - but I'm no expert)

I've read loads of Tesla stuff, he's kind of a 'hero' of mine, my goal is self sufficiency and I research/read up on Electric, Steam and Hydrogen cars, Alternative Power and Alternative Technology - as well as the conspiracy stuff.

You were right about Ohms law, you can solve most problems and gain understanding just with that info.

Good luck.
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Old 30-06-2010, 06:01 PM   #19
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Heya Guys, the tesla coil really is beautiful, I don't know what to say, I'm not 100% sure what the use of a tesla coil is or, does anyone have any applications you, said it's used in a car to, ramp up the voltage so that it jumps the spark gap firing up the ignition?

Isn't then a tesla coil simliar to a transformer?

Did you guys see wardenclyff tower?, do you think this was like a giant tesla coil?, as in it ramped up a huge amount f voltage from energy, and tesla was trying to make the earth conduct, so wireless electicity could be transferred through the air and earth.


I'm wanting to start out by making electricity, i've foudn this on ebay, will it work as a little motor for generating electiricy from wind? if I make some blades and a mounting.



I've also been looking at solar panels, manufactures waste ones (the ones hat dont make the grade so they are scrap or just sold of cheaper), I've found 40 for £50 quid, they have been tested and produce 1.8 watts each, but obviously that depends on the light.

Thanks alot Pezza.
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Old 30-06-2010, 07:28 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pezza19 View Post
Heya Guys, the tesla coil really is beautiful, I don't know what to say, I'm not 100% sure what the use of a tesla coil is or, does anyone have any applications you, said it's used in a car to, ramp up the voltage so that it jumps the spark gap firing up the ignition?

Isn't then a tesla coil simliar to a transformer?
Yes, Tesla coils are basically transformers but they have a spark gap before the primary winding so the charge increases to the point where it can 'jump' the gap producing a high voltage pulse in the primary coil, the pulse travels through the primary and inducts into the secondary coil winding and then travels 'up' the secondary coil and back down again. Then at exactly the right time, the next spark jumps the gap, into the primary and on into the secondary at exactly the right moment to coincide with the pulse in the secondary winding coming back down the coil and just as its about to travel back up the coil. This action increases the voltage of the original pulse as they combine perfectly.

This is done successively to create massive voltage in the secondary winding.

Tesla likened it to a childs swing. You push the swing lots of times to get it up to 'full swing' from then on, it only takes a little push, at exactly the right time to maintain the 'full swing' due to to the inherent momentum.

Other use for the Tesla coil is as a flyback transformer in a CRT TV
i.e it controls the electron beam scan which excites the TV pixels on the screen.
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