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Old 24-06-2013, 08:52 PM   #21
gemstonelever
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Sure, it could be an ion drive, element 115, or the mercury thing like the link above. Who knows. However, there is one way to do it that has nothing to do with all of that in my view. And thanks to my being inspired by a motorcycle with three headlights last night, you guys get to hear a little more.

Let's go over what I have revealed up to now.
1) There is a large gyroscope inside the ships for stabilization.
2) Gyroscopic effects are a crucial part of how these achieve what they do.
3) A gyroscope will precess when pressure is applied to the axis 90 degrees to one side or the other depending on which direction the thing is spinning.
4) The more mass a gyroscope has, the more force it has to precess and resist tilting.
5) The higher the RPM of it's spinning, the more force it has to precess and resist tilting.
6) The axis of a spinning gyroscope will resist tilting, and this is called axis rigidity.

And now for your next lesson:

The entire weight of the ship is supported when in the air by the top of the large gyroscope that is inside the ship. The gyroscope is set axis vertical. The shell of the ship is all connected to itself, but the gyroscope only touches it at the top of the axis, so that the drive, which the gyroscope is part of, will rise and push the ship upward from the axis. Since this does not put any pressure sideways in any direction on the axis, the gyroscope does not precess in response to this.
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Old 26-06-2013, 11:36 PM   #22
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All well and good, but do the physics still work in space?
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Old 27-06-2013, 05:38 AM   #23
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Sure it works in space, as long as the craft remains parallel to the Earth's surface. For deep space stuff we can discuss later. But for now I'm focusing on the slow mode hover, lift, and flight capabilities.

I was inspired today by a chick from my work, and a guy "M.B." as well as another guy whose first name starts with a 'B'. With inspiration like this, you guys will get it in no time.

Okay, let's look for a minute at centrifugal force and it's role in gyroscopes. When a gyroscope spins, the mass at the edge of the disk is being pushed outwards. The force this is being done with is relative to the rate of spin (RPM's) and the mass of the object spinning. When you spin something that has arms or loose strings attached to the axis, then those arms or strings move outward and upward to the center line of where the disk on a gyroscope would be. This is like the ride you get on at a carnival where your seat is connected to a spinning axis by a long chain. As the speed of the spin increases, your seat moves out and up. The faster the thing rotates, the more force will be used to move you out and up. The heavier you are, the more force will be used to move you out and up.

If you are spinning fast enough to rise all the way to the horizontal position, you will stop rising. Notice gravity isn't pulling you down. Why? It's because there is more force pulling you outward than gravity is using to try to pull you downward. If the ride you are on has it's base or foundation suddenly removed and starts to fall, would that somehow, suddenly make gravity pull down on you harder than the force that is pulling you out? NO. Why would it? Then the axis is going to fall first and pull you down behind it as you continue to rotate. All the swings on chains of the ride will then be higher than the horizontal position relative to the axis as the ride falls.

Imagine a pencil with strings coming off the eraser. Each string has a bead on the end. You twirl it like a top. The beads go out and up to the horizontal position. Then you drop it. The beads are pulled down by the strings as the strings are pulled down by the pencil. If it wasn't spinning, then they would all fall together.

Why is this important to how flying disks work? It's because the gyroscope inside the disk is being pulled down by gravity and it is pulling the weight at it's edges down behind it. A solid body you say? What if it weren't? The first saucers seemed to have used arms instead of a disk. Anyone getting it yet? Re read my earlier posts and you might figure it out before I post the next 2. The next 2 posts I make will give the secret away in plain English. It is beautiful, simple, elegant, clean, and a wonder to think about.
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Old 28-06-2013, 05:47 AM   #24
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Okay, today I was inspired by a guy on a motorcycle with three headlights. One in the middle and two running lights that were smaller but still looked like headlights. The bike was orange I believe and he had a blue and black handkerchief on. He was right next to and then behind me. Later at work a female co-worker gave me some more inspiration to post. If not for all these people encouraging me to post, I'd never have given you all so much info on my idea here.

Okay, start by watching the video at this link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ezJAmT19xwo

In this video you can see how the gyroscope resists tilting to the point where it is holding up a good amount of weight. It only does this of course when it is spinning. Eric acts like he doesn't know why, but it is simple. When a gyroscope spins, the centrifugal force being exerted to the outside of the disk and axis increases with the rate of spin. Also the more mass the gyro has, the more axis rigidity it has. It is as if a bunch of people were standing around the thing each with a hand on the gyro and each pulling at it in a different direction at the same time until all directions outward are being pulled. All of this pull is with the same force. Now in that situation, you can imagine that the weight pushing on the axis would have to be pulled by gravity stronger than all the forces pulling the axis against gravity. This includes the pulls up and to the sides. Even though you have added to the downward pull with the weight, it still doesn't surpass the countering pulls. In fact, if the gyro was spinning fast enough, it could support not only the weight of the base, but it's own weight as well. However, gravity is still pulling on the gyro itself, so we are only halfway there at this point.

So, is there a way to get a flying saucer to rest it's entire weight and the weight of it's drive (gyros) onto the axis of a gyro or gyros, and also somehow counter the weight of these gyros at the same time? There is.

On another forum, I once mentioned that there is an image, or symbol in our culture that looks exactly like the drive as seen from above. This is a very early version of the drive as far as I can tell as it uses arms in place of the disk of the main gyro. I assume that this was figured out by 1912 and was kept as a well guarded secret. The reason I assume this is that a secret society was formed and they used the image as their logo. You can easily find the image online doing a quick google search. The society was called the Thule society and the symbol is known today as a swastika. Members of this society later formed the Nazi party, which coincidentally are the ones who had the "Nazi Bell" under development at the end of WWII. I assume we got the technology from them after the war.

Don't write back that the swastika was an Indian or Asian symbol and that that is where they got it from. I know that, however, the turned part goes the opposite direction on the Nazi version and when you consider what I'm about to disclose, it will seem that I might be correct.

Notice that there are four arms going outward from the center in the symbol. The center is the axis seen from above. When not in operation, the arms are down to the side of the axis. As the axis spins, they rise. At the end of each arm (drumroll please) ... there is another gyro! In the image of the swastika, these gyros are precessing and that is why they are sticking out away from the arm. These gyros are in a position where their axis are horizontal to the Earth, while the big, or center gyro has it's axis vertical to the Earth.

Why does this matter? Because as the big gyro spins, the arms raise up, but are stopped before they can get to a horizontal position. The centrifugal force of the spinning big gyro throws them out with much force, and when they are stopped before getting to the horizontal position, they begin putting upward force against the stop. The stop touches the gyro at it's axis, and thus any force in the opposite direction is diverted sideways into precession. Since the entire weight of the ship, including arms and "rim gyros" is resting on the big gyro's axis at the top, all that weight is diverted into the rim gyros. Spinning fast enough, the rim gyros can support it.

But what about gravity pulling down on the rim gyros? Centrifugal force is pushing these outward with more force than gravity is using trying to pull them down and so they will not fall.

The rim gyros are positioned at the ends of the arms in such a way so as to be able to rotate freely any direction. And with this much force on them, they do!

Whenever you push up on something, an equal force is applied in the opposite direction. So, normally if you were inside a disk and pushed up on it with your hands, it would not lift because an equal downward force is being put on the craft as well. But if you were standing under it and it was light enough, and you pushed up, you might be able to lift it. But when you did, all that weight would be put onto the ground through your feet. Your feet might even sink into the ground a bit and leave a deep footprint. But with this setup, it's as if you were carrying a bit of "ground" around with you inside the ship. The thing is pushing off of the rim gyros' axis as if it were solid ground and that force does not push downward on the ship!

The stop creates a direct up/down pressure between the stop and the axis of the rim gyro. The arm itself does not act as a lever because the counter force from the stop is going down and not to the side where the arm is. And even if it did, this would just put the downward force back on the ship itself which would still end up being redirected to the side by the rim gyros. The stop travels around with the arms and sticks down towards the axis of a rim gyro to stop it from rising just above where they arm would be out straight. Centrifugal force keeps trying to raise it higher, thus upward push is exerted on the stop, and thus the big gyro and thus the ship itself. As the ship moves up from this, the arms rise up as well as it is still trying to get to the horizontal position.

If I post again, I'll discuss several things:
1) The "Bob Lazar" model.
2) Spinning the gyros with motors, bearings, possible electromagnetic motors to drive the gyros, centrifugal force in detail, and forces through solids.
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Old 29-06-2013, 09:59 PM   #25
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Gemstonelever - Very interesting concept.... Please keep it coming!
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Old 30-06-2013, 06:10 AM   #26
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Tonight I was inspired to write by a customer at my job, right before I got off work. He was asking for directions.

Thanks for the kind words, silentnomore. Now on to the good stuff.

The "Bob Lazar" model:
Bob Lazar claimed he was shown a craft like this while working at area S-4. I found it interesting how similar his account of the drive on the ship he saw is to what I figured out. Then it hit me. They figured out that they don't need the arms. The stop coming down holds the gyro at one end of it's axis. The one Bob saw either had an enclosure around the rim gyros (to prevent air resistance from causing an additional input force to the gyro?), or the whole thing was a solid mass. In other words, the axis itself was the whole gyro. In the first case, they could just evacuate the air from the drive chamber instead. Who knows.

At any rate, what I figure is that the stop is also the arm and it is attached near the edge of the disk of the big gyro on it's underside. The reason Bob didn't see this is that the gyro's disk is embedded into the ceiling of the chamber. He never saw the drive while it was running, else he'd have noticed it spinning and maybe figured it out.

In this model, according to Bob's description, there are only three rim gyros. The bottom end of the axis of the big gyro does not extend to the floor. When it spins, the stop/arm doesn't have to move up towards the horizontal position in order to create upward force. Why? Because as long as it's spinning, it's trying to. The force is there anyway. No need for an arm that has to rise up. The top axis that goes through the bulkhead into the pilot's cabin probably has the same weight as the three stops/arms and the three rim gyros combined to keep the balance even. That might not be necessary, but it might be what they are doing.

In Bob's description there is a "pole" that goes from the floor of the pilot's cabin all the way up to the ceiling. In my view this is the top of the big gyro's axis. There is a small rounded housing around it at the floor. This must be the engine that spins the big axis/and or the smaller sideways drive for lateral movement.

Poor Bob couldn't figure out how it worked, which they asked him to try to do when he got there. They never let him see the drive in operation. When he couldn't figure it out, suddenly they knew exactly how it worked. They told him about the gravity amplifiers and element 115 and all that stuff. Oh! So they suddenly figured it out only while Bob was working there. All that time since they recovered it and coincidentally just happened to figure it all out just after they found out that Bob couldn't figure it out. Then they let slip to him when they were going to test fly it. And he didn't get intercepted going into an area where he'd be able to see the flight? Bee Ess. They let him see it so he'd get exited and they'd also have a reason to fire him. They had already lied to him about how it worked so he could get all of you thinking about particle physics and everyone's hopes dashed since we don't have any element 115.

The next post, if I write it, will focus on how the backforce from the engines turning the gyro's is kept from mucking things up and a bit on centrifugal force and why the reverse force doesn't cancel the upward force. Peace to you.
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Old 30-06-2013, 09:11 AM   #27
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Originally Posted by silentnomore View Post
All well and good, but do the physics still work in space?
Or, do it works equally in all parts of Space?

Earlier the scientists hold opinion that a gravity weakens with distance. But now, it is thought that this is worth only to some extent and you can, for example go far, far away form the sun and it's gravity don't weakens as much as it could no matter on which distance you are.
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Old 30-06-2013, 04:30 PM   #28
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I found this an interesting read, if anyone hasn't seen it.

Quote:
Sponsored by Vangard Sciences
PO BOX 1031
Mesquite, TX 75150

October 16, 1990

listed on KeelyNet as
UFO4.ZIP

--------------------------------------------------------------------

How to Build a Flying Saucer
After So Many
Amateurs
Have Failed

An essay in Speculative Engineering

by T. B. Pawlicki

--------------------------------------------------------------------

At the end of the nineteenth century, the most distinguished
scientists and engineers declared that no known combination of
materials and locomotion could be assembled into a practical flying
machine. Fifty years later another generation of distinguished
scientists and engineers declared that it was technologically
infeasible for a rocket ship to reach the moon. Nevertheless, men
were getting off the ground and out into space even while these
words were uttered.

Link - http://www.sacred-texts.com/ufo/ufo4.htm
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Old 30-06-2013, 06:07 PM   #29
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Pi3141, thanks for posting that link. I loved it. I would only add that I have seen a demonstration of the effect mentioned at the end, and the only problem is that it takes too much energy to run it per the output. They had a huge "capacitor" that was able to lift off about two feet. It still had to be attached to huge cables to provide power. I was thinking about these devices when I came upon my idea and realized that in the 1940's, there is no way such small craft were carrying power supplies capable of this.

I have also heard of the wheels within a larger wheel idea. In the one I saw, the large wheel was more like an oval and this provided an uneven output with more force to one end.

All of these are great ideas, however most of these use pulses and a clumsy attempt to to counter the back force with part of the forward force. It can work, in theory, but mine has no such difficulties to overcome. In my idea, all downward movement in response to gravity is redirected to the side. It doesn't wobble or have uneven forces or anything like that. The biggest issue is redirecting the backforce from the electric motors used to run the gyro's, but those also can be configured to not add any downward force to the ship. This must be the case, as the motors add the energy to the gyros, and thus will have an equal backforce. By backforce I mean the equal and opposite force on the motor to it's forward output. When you run a coil around a magnet in a generator for example, there is resistance to the direction it's turning. In a generator this is no big deal as the housing is heavy and easily absorbs the backforce without the housing moving. But in an airborn craft, these forces will be applied to the craft itself as it is not mounted to the Earth. I will discuss how this is accomplished in a future post.

Piskavac, thanks for your comment. Yes, this design will only work with the bottom of the craft pointed at the source of gravity. However, after making this realization, I figured out a way to make what I call an Interstellar Drive, that uses the same basic principal, yet counters gravity from all sides spherically, at the same time. I will get into that in the future perhaps. It does require my explaining something I call persistence of force.
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Old 30-06-2013, 07:46 PM   #30
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Most use anti-matter for fuel! Inside the reactor, protons are bombarded into the nucleous of a 115 atom - transmuting it to element 116. When this occurs, the element decays, and releases/radiates small amounts of anti-matter - which is released into a tube, protecting it from reacting with matter. This anti-matter is directed towards the end of the tube, where the anti-matter, and gaseous matter collide, and annihilate....converting 100% of the matter into energy. This energy is then converted into electrical energy, by a thermoelectric generator at 100% efficiency, to amplify the gravity wave!

They use one gravity amplifier to lift off the ground! The other two remaining generators are lifted infront of them to create a distortion, (essencially down hill) therefore creating a, "down hill" motion which could last for eternity!
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Old 03-07-2013, 03:25 AM   #31
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Okay, thanks to seven, count em, seven different people inspiring me to write, I will write another post! Thanks to the National Guard for some good work recently. Love you guys and gals.

Now, I made a mistake in my previous ideas, but it turns out to not matter. In this post I will fix my mistake. The mistake has to do with the idea that the vertical big gyro will press against the rim gyro downward and be held up by it. It will be held up by it turns out, but not due to the big gyro falling and trying to pull the rim gyro down from the side. In fact, the centrifugal force makes the arm act as a solid part of the gyro and gravity's downward pull on the rim gyro and arm does push down on the axis where it connects, thus it will all fall at the same rate in spite of the centrifugal force. Experiments have proven this as a spinning gyro does not lose weight as it spins. While there may be some slight loss of weight according to some researchers, it is not enough to make a difference to what I'm discussing here.

However, it turns out that that does not matter. I think that in the "Swastika Model" the "stop" can't be seen due to the view being from the top down, but it must be there. The stop comes down from the disk (or arm) and is attached to the rim gyro at one end of it's axis. As the big gyro spins, the rim gyro sticks out. The "stop" tries to move out straight but can't because it is not a lever. That's fine because the up and outward force is still applied to the disk. Plus, instead of the back force being down like it would if an arm was attached at the big gyro's axis, it goes laterally towards the axis through the disk. Once it is spinning, I assume then they turn on the rim gyros.

So, when the upward force is applied from the stop trying to swing out, the "levered" force does not go back against the rim gyro. And the weight of the ship is pushed against by it and is redirected into sideways precession by the rim gyro. Spin it fast enough and the entire weight of the ship plus rim gyros will be able to be overcome by the upward force of the rim gyros. (Because all downward force is redirected, there's nothing to overcome and even the slightest upward push will make the ship rise.) When the ship gets to the desired altitude, the stops can be retracted to reduce the upward force until it stops rising.
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Old 06-07-2013, 06:10 AM   #32
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Thanks to some folks in grey vehicle for tonight's inspiration.

The central main gyro, what I call the big gyro is driven from just above the disk by an electric motor. The motor is mounted sideways and they use a gear to transfer momentum to the big gyro. This is so that the force and counter force created by the motor are horizontal and do not push down on the ship. In fact if they wanted they might use the counter force to drive a small sideways mounted version of the drive to be used for lateral motion.

They could also use electromagnets to turn the big gyro. There will still be a counter force, but again if the motor is aligned so that the counter force goes to the side and a gear transfers the momentum to the big gyros axis, this will work. You can't just rely on the rim gyros to redirect this force or the rim gyros motor's back force, because it will be equal to what you are putting into the gyros and thus the gyros won't have enough force to overcome it.

As for the rim gyros, the motor is in the arm or what I call the stop, which holds the rim gyro at one end of it's axis, which will be horizontal to the Earth once the big gyro is rotating. With the motor in the arm, the back force will be transferred through it and to the disc of the big gyro in a lateral direction. Sideways pushing and pulling don't go down and so will not stop the ship from rising.

You can build your own demo model without using engines. It will rise up and hover about for a little while and then slowly drift back to the ground. The big gyro can be turned by a modified bicycle pedal and wheel set on it's side. You turn the pedals with your hand and the drive will rise up out of the tube it's axis sits in once the thing is spinning fast enough. The rim gyros however, are a little trickier to get going without a motor hooked up to each. The best way I can figure is to use a ring that can be pushed up so that it's touching the disk on each gyro at the same time, once the big gyro is spinning. The ring is under the big disc and attached to the gear that is turned by the pedals. Once the big gyro is spinning and the rim gyros are sticking out straight, then push the ring up so that it starts the rim gyros spinning. Once they are spinning fast enough, they will push the drive upward and redirect all downward force into horizontal precession.

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Old 07-07-2013, 01:45 PM   #33
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my idea back in the day was to make a electrogravitic system, hyperstatic propulsion but have some kind of way of seeing objects, land masses etc as to program trajectory without a neural interface and have it be protected from intrusions as well, but i would add safety things like back up electrogravitic system in case of initial failure. and escape pods as well.
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Old 07-07-2013, 02:22 PM   #34
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my idea back in the day was to make a electrogravitic system, hyperstatic propulsion but have some kind of way of seeing objects, land masses etc as to program trajectory without a neural interface and have it be protected from intrusions as well, but i would add safety things like back up electrogravitic system in case of initial failure. and escape pods as well.
Imagine that since they say 2045 is the soonest date to singularity, that once achieved and human integrated with machine you can simply look further to the future and see that it is just a matter of time. A matter of time before it is not just human bodies integrated but the mind as well and when this becomes reality and consciousness can be shared or even relocated to a machine it changes everything. I mean if this were the case for some advanced civilization than conscious aware beings could be integrated in the ships themselves. The actual beings could for that matter be on a mother ship way out and not even really be on board but just on board using surrogate drone observation and investigative tools. Imagine in this case both these beings, the ship and the drone bodies would be biological units of some sort of life form. Instead of refueling the ship simply is fed nutrients just like we are. It has a life span and can be cloned. It is a Borg type integration of self healing awareness capable of interstellar travel and those on board feed it as well as provide energies and in return the ship is programmed to live off their left overs and wastes. A catfish that sails space.
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Old 11-08-2013, 09:16 PM   #35
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I read a book about a contact with an extraterrestrial race, and although the book focusses on what it takes to build a really working society it has a small section where they explain the workings of a space-disc that may be relevant here.
I would strongly suggest for you to stay on earth and have a look at John R.R. Searl’s SEG and IGV. Outer space? We are conquering it with a "sledge hammer", aren't we?
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Old 11-08-2013, 10:09 PM   #36
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Default Utmost interesting, but...

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Originally Posted by gemstonelever View Post
Okay, today I was inspired by a guy on a motorcycle with three headlights. One in the middle and two running lights that were smaller but still looked like headlights. ...
...thus upward push is exerted on the stop, and thus the big gyro and thus the ship itself. As the ship moves up from this, the arms rise up as well as it is still trying to get to the horizontal position.

If I post again, I'll discuss several things:
1) The "Bob Lazar" model.
2) Spinning the gyros with motors, bearings, possible electromagnetic motors to drive the gyros, centrifugal force in detail, and forces through solids.
Gemstonelever keep it going. Good Stuff!

I don't know much myself about these subjects, but I wonder if you have ever looked at John R.R. Searl’s SEG and IGV. I think that if you have read his material and understood what he is saying, you will agree that "building" a UFO is not so complicated. John had built around fourty of them in his days and flown (by remote control) some of them, with the BBC in attendance. Now he is trying to finance the manufacture of his Searl Effect Generator (which is the basis of the Inverse Gravity Disk, or IGV), which is an absolutely amazing machine, but has trouble getting financing. Trouble is he is the (almost) only person in the world who understands the Law of the Squares, as used in the designs of his SEG and IGV. Without this understanding nobody can copy these machines. It's a long story, but please read it, if you haven't already. It might give you some more insight on this subject.
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Old 11-08-2013, 10:51 PM   #37
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Default Gyroscope rotating in three directions

My own drawings......

Gyroscope rotating in three directions..

Three ideas.








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Old 12-08-2013, 12:37 AM   #38
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Default You want to build a Flying Saucer?

Take a look at this:
http://www.searlsolution.com/
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Old 24-08-2013, 11:22 AM   #39
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Default Vibrational Energy

It can all done with the mind.
All the machine has to do is provide the right environment.
The right vibrational fields
The right electro-magnetic environment.
And the stabilisation whilst providing those environments
The mind does the rest. - Choose the reference point and visualise it (the most important part).
The machine does not have to go anywhere.
It does not travel, per se.
The mind does the travelling.
Time and space are only our perceptions of this world.
We already are everywhere and nowhere - all possibility.
Everything is here and now.
We only require the right environment/the right reference/and the right visualisation to enter any time and any place as we perceive it.

Old scientist talk about: anti-gravity, time-travel, free energy, tesla (every colour has a different vibration)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jRDxdalTbNg

For the mechanics of this machine, I am sure some of the excellent above examples could possibly fit the bill.

The following video goes into more detail about travelling in time and space (same method), and some of the problems encountered, although a chair (inside a building) was used - not a saucer.
Info on the experiments with going back in time start around 29 minutes in.
Previous black projects including invisibility/ time travel/ mind control with "1943 Philadelphia Experiment" and later "Montauk Project" survivor Duncan Cameron (psychic/time traveller), interviewed together with Montauk Project engineer Preston Nichols ( Parapsychology, Psychology, and Electrical Engineering):
The Philadelphia Experiment and The Montauk Project: (going back in time starts at 29 minutes into the interview)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vRN98JnR-hA

Last edited by denis; 24-08-2013 at 07:18 PM.
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Old 25-08-2013, 07:57 PM   #40
denis
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Default Ralph Ring / Otis Carr / Tesla principled saucer

More info:

Free Energy - a flying saucer can transcend time and space - it is essentially able to do both - since neither exist except in our minds. No need to travel to a time or place-just bring it to you.

I remember this - all the media/ everyone just about ridiculed Otis Carr when he said he had tested his UFO/saucer and it worked - and he could design/build levitating cars that used no fuel. Ridicule still continues today.
They ridiculed him because it was obvious the craft had no propulsion system to actually move it to another place.
They laughed at him because the UFO doesn't actually move when travelling, (except it visibly moves/appears/disappears to onlookers - even miles away). No propulsion/fuel needed - only energy and focused thought.
Perfectly safe system is virtually impossible to crash into objects. Crystal energy was used as craft energy controller.
(see above)

Ralph Ring :
(who worked with Otis Carr developing Tesla ideas and principles building successful "flying saucer",
who were both threatened by tptb into abandoning the project, and ridiculed by the media.)
Website:
http://bluestarenterprise.com/
Info:
http://www.projectcamelot.org/ralph_ring.html
Interview:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RfM23rAZTSQ
UFO Builder's manuscript Part 3 (can be downloaded as PDF):
http://www.scribd.com/doc/82548833/O...ery-Schematics

Last edited by denis; 26-08-2013 at 04:53 PM.
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