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Old 28-11-2014, 07:06 PM   #1
sanusi
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Default Deconstructing Atheism

Shaykh Asrar deconstructs atheism:

http://youtu.be/exYSgPKjF3w

He mentions organised religion as being different to whether there is a God or not. Worth the listen
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Old 28-11-2014, 07:10 PM   #2
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If there was a god that had a personal interest in every individual, why would it require middle men to transmit its message, and risk having its message distorted by human failings?
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Old 28-11-2014, 11:37 PM   #3
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Discussing whether there is an Originator of the universe is quiet different to saying whether He has revealed himself to us or not.

If He has revealed Himself then it would be through perfect humans for imperfect humans. Otherwise the imperfect humans would lie about what God has said. Therefore true prophets would be perfect and incapable of lying.
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Old 29-11-2014, 12:03 AM   #4
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there is absolutely nothing to "deconstruct," as there is no "construct" in atheism.
an atheist is an individual who does not believe there is a god or gods.
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Old 29-11-2014, 12:14 AM   #5
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People who believe like to believe atheists are people who believe......

I'm not sure why. Somehow levels the playing field. By putting atheism on the same footing as faith it makes it easier to pull apart, I suppose.

But it doesn't really. I'm an atheists because that's where the evidence is leading me. I don't simply proclaim that god doesn't exist, then work backwards to disprove it.

The scientific method Is to follow the evidence and draw a conclusion based on that. Religon is different because it asserts that god exists then tries to reshape the evidence to fit the hypothaisis...

Relgion is based on faith. Atheism is the assertion that the evidence implies that god does not exist.....
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Old 29-11-2014, 12:18 AM   #6
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An athiest is somebody who never visits the religious sections in a chat forum. That doesn't give them perfect insight into how the planet runs when religion is taken out of the equation.
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Old 29-11-2014, 12:20 AM   #7
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If there was a god that had a personal interest in every individual, why would it require middle men to transmit its message, and risk having its message distorted by human failings?
Who said it does ?
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Old 29-11-2014, 12:37 AM   #8
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An athiest is somebody who never visits the religious sections in a chat forum. That doesn't give them perfect insight into how the planet runs when religion is taken out of the equation.
There are several atheists on this thread.

From what I have observed there is nothing wrong with their insight.
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Old 29-11-2014, 12:45 AM   #9
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An athiest is somebody who never visits the religious sections in a chat forum. That doesn't give them perfect insight into how the planet runs when religion is taken out of the equation.
I'm an atheist and I frequent the religious section.
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Old 29-11-2014, 12:50 AM   #10
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I'm an atheist too.... If you don't at least make a stab of studying what you don't believe in, how can you know your against it?l....
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Old 29-11-2014, 07:22 AM   #11
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There is something to deconstruct as modern scientism atheists are militant and make atheism a formal movement. This is done by Dawkins, Krauss, et al
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Old 29-11-2014, 07:59 AM   #12
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Originally Posted by sanusi View Post
He mentions organised religion as being different to whether there is a God or not. Worth the listen
Amazing, who wouldve thought that atheism is not antitheism? Before I watch the video, can I ask if he offers any more profound insights, such as whether the pope is catholic or bears defecate in the woods?
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Last edited by chunky; 29-11-2014 at 08:42 AM.
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Old 29-11-2014, 08:01 AM   #13
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Who said it does ?
I think the very fact that you're here, trying to defend god as a middleman, kind of proves his point...
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The amount of energy needed to refute bullshit is an order of magnitude bigger than to produce it.

Last edited by chunky; 29-11-2014 at 08:43 AM.
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Old 29-11-2014, 04:11 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fairyprincess View Post
People who believe like to believe atheists are people who believe......

I'm not sure why.

Relgion is based on faith. Atheism is the assertion that the evidence implies that god does not exist.....
It is because the evidence does not imply that God does not exist.

That is an Atheist declaring a belief, just as us Theist declare that the evidence demonstrates that God does exist.

If you were neutral as in = I do not know about there being a God or not - then that would be having no belief.

As such Atheist are not neutral as the Atheist have a negative belief.

And if we go by the definition of faith then the Atheist belief is indeed faith.

1) Webster Dictionary - Faith = "firm belief in something for which there is no proof"

2) Hebrews 11:1 = "Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen." KJV.
===

So evidence is not proof, and belief includes faith, and thereby Atheism is a religion.
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Old 29-11-2014, 04:13 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by jpcusicksr View Post
It is because the evidence does not imply that God does not exist.

That is an Atheist declaring a belief, just as us Theist declare that the evidence demonstrates that God does exist.

If you were neutral as in = I do not know about there being a God or not - then that would be having no belief.

As such Atheist are not neutral as the Atheist have a negative belief.

And if we go by the definition of faith then the Atheist belief is indeed faith.

1) Webster Dictionary - Faith = "firm belief in something for which there is no proof"

2) Hebrews 11:1 = "Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen." KJV.
===

So evidence is not proof, and belief includes faith, and thereby Atheism is a religion.
still spewing the same bullshit?
wow.
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Old 29-11-2014, 04:16 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fairyprincess View Post
People who believe like to believe atheists are people who believe......

I'm not sure why. Somehow levels the playing field. By putting atheism on the same footing as faith it makes it easier to pull apart, I suppose.

But it doesn't really. I'm an atheists because that's where the evidence is leading me. I don't simply proclaim that god doesn't exist, then work backwards to disprove it.

The scientific method Is to follow the evidence and draw a conclusion based on that. Religon is different because it asserts that god exists then tries to reshape the evidence to fit the hypothaisis...

Relgion is based on faith. Atheism is the assertion that the evidence implies that god does not exist.....
Isn't everything a belief? This entire universe?

If you truly don't believe in anything, then you are already there.

Satori/Nirvana/Enlightenment/Moksha et al.

Hell, even that is a belief.

Last edited by seraphicson; 29-11-2014 at 04:42 PM.
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Old 29-11-2014, 04:36 PM   #17
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Everything has a cause. The universe had a beginning and therefore a cause. The cause of the universe is the Originator of the universe. That Originator is Self Subsistent, Eternal and uncaused. The universe cannot be eternal as it is observably contingent. All contingents would have to be relying finally on a cause which is Self established and independent.

That is what I picked up from Shaykh Asrar.

Faith on a Originator of the universe is based on knowledge.
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Old 29-11-2014, 04:59 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jpcusicksr View Post
It is because the evidence does not imply that God does not exist.

That is an Atheist declaring a belief, just as us Theist declare that the evidence demonstrates that God does exist.

If you were neutral as in = I do not know about there being a God or not - then that would be having no belief.

As such Atheist are not neutral as the Atheist have a negative belief.

And if we go by the definition of faith then the Atheist belief is indeed faith.

1) Webster Dictionary - Faith = "firm belief in something for which there is no proof"

2) Hebrews 11:1 = "Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen." KJV.
===

So evidence is not proof, and belief includes faith, and thereby Atheism is a religion.

No.

The atheist just doesn't believe you.
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Old 29-11-2014, 05:06 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sanusi View Post
Everything has a cause. The universe had a beginning and therefore a cause. The cause of the universe is the Originator of the universe. That Originator is Self Subsistent, Eternal and uncaused. The universe cannot be eternal as it is observably contingent. All contingents would have to be relying finally on a cause which is Self established and independent.

That is what I picked up from Shaykh Asrar.

Faith on a Originator of the universe is based on knowledge.
I with you up until the highlighted part. "Independent" is mere speculation.
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Old 29-11-2014, 05:14 PM   #20
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One should have wrote a book called it...... my life

My life. -- and it should be a very interesting book. One's life is a book and one writes that book. So, in a way one is the author of one's own destiny.

Was it Atheism that made me reject the living which I found while I was being raised in a community of Mormons? ... ?? No. I wouldn't say so. But by the time I left the community, I just had no interest in those pursuits.. Didn't give it any thought one way or the other.

But I guess I did have enough of the trappings,, and was smart enough to relise this mass market form of religion wasn't going to do it for me. Wasn't for me.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

But the world and it's non-theistic values wasn't for me either. I didn't buy into the idea or beliif.... Get an education, good job, married, children,, retire equels good Full Life. Those pursuits made me sick.

I couldn't get myself to be a part of crime either.-- I was plauged by guilt for every theft, lie and shaddy deal.

So then thru some lucky circumstance,, I embarked on a quest. I didn't even know what I wanted -- but I knew I wanted some quiet and peace to find out what's going on with this world and myself.

Quiet and Peace.. Learn to meditate.-- that took years and visits to many differing communities of people. It still is going on with me.

It seems to me really it is a question of elevating one's consciousness. When someone I know expresses the desire to Retaliate for some harm done to them.. I now see this is an expression of low conscious state. In a higher conscoious state one does not seek revenge.

It's that easy. Elevate one's conscousness and one will BE.. that higher state. So, now when the swirling winds of revenge, hate, anger, rage, whatever manefest themselves.. I know the unreality of it.... while those in low-consciousness state see no other reality but revenge, hate, lust, greed whatever.


Even the pusuit of "Good Full Life".. is low consciousness activity. Even the pursuit of Truth can be low consciousness activity. This entire world and world systems are Low Consciousness activity..

.. but if one is lucky one will hit the nail of the head and elevate themselves,,, because elevating one's consciousness is not something that

can be bought.
can be sold
can be forced upon anyone.

But one can train oneself,, and one can be open -- by a slight inclination of the Will -- to being educated in these things.


There. No mention of God or Bible. No agenda to get one to believe anything -- except .. possiblities.

Last edited by dedicate; 29-11-2014 at 05:44 PM.
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