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Old 25-11-2011, 06:01 AM   #1
pi3141
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Default The 52-year-old pantry lightbulbs

This story is one of particular interest to me.

Daily Mail

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The 52-year-old pantry lightbulbs that refuse to go out

Even in an era of high-tech eco lightbulbs, a filament that lasts for more than ten years is unusual.

So Carrie Bunkley's pantry is a museum of sorts, housing two 52-year-old lightbulbs that have never been changed.

The Lafayette, Louisiana resident, who says she switches the lightbulbs on and off up to 50 times a day, is astonished that the Westinghouse bulbs are working as well today as they were when she built her home more than half a century ago.


Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...#ixzz1ehLUusEp

For more info search 'The Lightbulb Conspiracy'


Whilst studying for my degree I worked on a group project and we submitted a design for an long lasting lightbulb. (Got distinctions for it)

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Old 25-11-2011, 12:44 PM   #2
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Is it true about manufactures today, they intentionally make the product last a couple of years so you buy another one, nothing today is built to last compared to a decade ago. (or longer)
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Old 25-11-2011, 12:57 PM   #3
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Planned obsilesense [sp** is the technical name for it.....It's especially obvious in

American made cars & trucks.....The Japanese made cars to last.....probably part of the reason they were taken down......
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Old 17-12-2011, 01:30 AM   #4
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This reminds me of a couch from the 1920's (It looked something like the ones that psychologist use, but I forgot what those are specifically called.) that my parents owned, which originally belonged to my great grandmother. It was in perfect condition for its age.

Being foolish however, they decided to sell it and got a blue sofa to replace it. Not surprisingly, the sofa only lasted about seven years. They then had to go out and get another couch. Guess how long that one lasted.

Yep, seven years.
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Old 17-12-2011, 12:42 PM   #5
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New stuff is just not comparable to the old ones. We have an old TV which my dad owned and used, and the fact that we have black outs and power surges and it still works is unique. Comparatively, our new TV's stop working in a few years
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Old 20-12-2011, 07:07 AM   #6
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Planned obsilesense [sp** is the technical name for it.....It's especially obvious in

American made cars & trucks.....The Japanese made cars to last.....probably part of the reason they were taken down......
Can be also applied to all things with the former "Made in West Germany" label.

Mercedes motors, for example, had a guaranteed life of 500.000km.
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Old 20-12-2011, 03:22 PM   #7
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I have a yellow Nelson "flaring rose" hand watering sprayer that my dad gave me.


(this is not mine, but mine looks like this)

It's older than my wife. Every year I buy new plastic crap for the garden that barely lasts through the summer, but that flaring rose keeps going.

What's better for the economy?

I've heard of old lightbulbs before. The main wear factor on incandescent lamps is tungsten evaporating from the filament and then condensing on the glass envelope. That's why old bulbs get dark on the inside. The filament gets thinner and thinner until it finally breaks. Halogen lamps have gas inside that (as I understand it) keeps the tungsten from condensing on the glass, so the metal recondenses on the surface of the filament. This means the filament can be run hotter without wearing out the same way. The other way to keep the filament from evaporating is to use bulbs made for higher voltage. I think this has been mentioned upthread.

In the US we use (nominally) 120v for household current. Some things are listed 110v, some 115v, some 120v. The reason for this is weird, but interesting.

Edison, who invented light bulbs, managed to have excessive influence on the development of the US electrical grid. His lightbulb manufacturing had quality control issues, so some lamps were brighter than others using the same voltage. His answer was to stamp the bulbs with the voltage at which they produced light of a given amount, 110, 115, 120 and I think 125 for a while. Then he sold different parts of the country different power generators, creating 110v and 120v (etc) regions, then shipped lightbulbs rated for those voltages to those regions.

I suspect the vintage bulbs are 125v units that somehow got into 110v regions.

In the US we can buy "rough duty" bulbs for things like automotive work lights. These are just bulbs rated for higher voltage (I've seen 130v printed on the glass) with a shatter-resistant coating. They last pretty long in ordinary service, because the filament is running cooler.

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Old 21-12-2011, 03:58 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by pi3141 View Post
This story is one of particular interest to me.

Daily Mail




For more info search 'The Lightbulb Conspiracy'


Whilst studying for my degree I worked on a group project and we submitted a design for an long lasting lightbulb. (Got distinctions for it)
I love this story.

I wouldn't actually buy the Daily Mail to read it, but I love it none the less.

When they do go, I bet she won't have to evacuate the house and throw all the food in the larder out for fear of mercury contamination, either.

Genius.
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Old 21-12-2011, 04:14 PM   #9
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Things are made to be broken.
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Old 22-12-2011, 10:27 PM   #10
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Big companies would rather you buy things over and over than just once. They make more money that way.

Older things were built to last. People would pay more but they knew they would last a few generations.

Nowadays we are encouraged to live in a throwaway society. Made in China is hardly a quality seal of approval on anything.

We accept poor quality products because if they fail we can always buy the updated version.
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Old 25-12-2011, 08:36 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by apollo_gnomon View Post
Edison, who invented light bulbs, managed to have excessive influence on the development of the US electrical grid. His lightbulb manufacturing had quality control issues, so some lamps were brighter than others using the same voltage. His answer was to stamp the bulbs with the voltage at which they produced light of a given amount, 110, 115, 120 and I think 125 for a while. Then he sold different parts of the country different power generators, creating 110v and 120v (etc) regions, then shipped lightbulbs rated for those voltages to those regions.

I suspect the vintage bulbs are 125v units that somehow got into 110v regions.

In the US we can buy "rough duty" bulbs for things like automotive work lights. These are just bulbs rated for higher voltage (I've seen 130v printed on the glass) with a shatter-resistant coating. They last pretty long in ordinary service, because the filament is running cooler.
I've recounted this story before but I'll state it again here, it would appear to support your theory.

When I was growing up, I heard 'storise' about everlasting lightbulbs. Usually, someone's relative had read a story in a newpaper, of course they never kept the paper and I was never able to see the story for myself.

When I went to University in Liverpool, i was there for 2 weeks and I learnt from another student how to fix the electricity meter so I didn't pay for electricity and how to make an everlasting lightbulb!

The guy that taught me was a mature student like myself, but considerably older, he had been playing in bands an repairing amps and equipment for years.

He explained to me, a lightbulb is just like a fuse, except, a fuse is designed to operate at a certain power level and when the power is exceeded to blow, a lightbulb is designed to emit light at a certain power level, and when that power is exceeded, like a fuse, it blows. Hence to stop a lightbulb from blowing, reduce its input power, then like a fuse, it will not blow. His solution was to fit a diode to lamps. Thus performing 'half wave rectification' and reducing the input power by half. The lightbulbs emit half the light they are rated for, but they never blow except occasionaly when switched on and going from cold state to hot state which is the other condition that causes lightbulbs to fail.

During the degree course, we had a module called 'Creative Problem Solving and Inovation' we had to use some Russian software that solved problems. You input terms that relate to your problem, volts, amps, light, heat etc etc and the softwre jumbles them up and spits them back out, much like a pseudo lateral thinking program. Of course we already knew our answer, so we just jumped on the 'solution' that came out 'reduce the voltage' The other function of the software was a database with innovative solutions to problems, that bit of software showed us several other lightbulb solutions, from phosphorous or silver coated bulbs etc. Basically, there were plenty of solutions to make a more efficient, longer lasting lightbulbs.

So your theory about edison's bulbs may well be right. A bulb, with a slightly higher voltage tolerance in an area with a lower voltage would undoubtedly last longer than normal.


I've met some interesting people in my time, someone who personally knows a lecturer working at Edinburgh university who converted a car to run on water and sold the design to an oil company and and ex soldier who while serving at the frontline during the Korean war witnessed the British army roll a tank to the battle lines and unleash an 'acoustic' cannon that 'melted' and enemy tank from a mile away!
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Old 25-12-2011, 08:39 PM   #12
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I love this story.

I wouldn't actually buy the Daily Mail to read it, but I love it none the less.
Lol.

I don't buy it - just skim through it online.


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Originally Posted by madame_follette View Post
When they do go, I bet she won't have to evacuate the house and throw all the food in the larder out for fear of mercury contamination, either.

Genius.
Indeed, they don't cause those problems.
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Old 25-12-2011, 08:39 PM   #13
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/\/\/\/\

This is fascinating and makes absolute sense to me. There really is no reason why a lightbulb should be finite, if you think about it. Or rather, why it should blow as quickly as it does.

I know nothing of the new poisonous types, but the 'mechanics' of the old type seem quite straight-forward.

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Old 25-12-2011, 08:59 PM   #14
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Originally Posted by reiko noir View Post
This reminds me of a couch from the 1920's (It looked something like the ones that psychologist use, but I forgot what those are specifically called.) that my parents owned, which originally belonged to my great grandmother. It was in perfect condition for its age.

Being foolish however, they decided to sell it and got a blue sofa to replace it. Not surprisingly, the sofa only lasted about seven years. They then had to go out and get another couch. Guess how long that one lasted.

Yep, seven years.
The couch you speak of is probably a
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Old 29-12-2011, 04:21 PM   #15
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/\/\/\/\

This is fascinating and makes absolute sense to me. There really is no reason why a lightbulb should be finite, if you think about it. Or rather, why it should blow as quickly as it does.

I know nothing of the new poisonous types, but the 'mechanics' of the old type seem quite straight-forward.
Thanks.

I didn't explain it as well as I could have so let me add a few points.

Lightbulbs generally only blow either when transitioning from cold (off) to hot (on) or when a 'ripple current' propogates through the mains network and momentarily takes the voltage higher than it should be - say 245 volts instead of 240 volts. This is the 'over voltage' I wrote about and blows the lightbulb like a fuse. Lightbulbs are 'rated' at 240 volts so a momentary increase in voltage causes it to blow. ]

So its obvious by reducing the voltage from 240 volts to 120 volts (using the diode to perform half wave rectification and thus reduce the input power from 240 volts to 120 volts) even with a huge ripple current the volts will never go over 240 volts so the bulb will never blow.

However that means you will only get half the light out - so a 100 watt bulb will give 50 watts of light. Hence if you want 80 watts of light you use a 160 watt lightbulb. If you want a 100 watt light source you need to get the manufacturers to make a 200 watt bulb rated for 240 volts and run it at 120 volts. Hence it is obvious, it really is just a matter of making the rating higher. In theory, they could produce a 160 watt lightbulb rated at 280 volts, then the bulb would not break unless it blows when being switched on.

This is why I wanted to explain it after apollo mentioned the slightly higher lightbulb ratings that Edison produced, it is entirely logical that a slightly higher rated filament used in a lower voltage environment would result in a long lasting lightbulb.

When you think about it, it seems almost like a confidence trick - how could something so delicate such as a lightbulb, with a thin metal filament contained in thin glass bowl that has been vacuated and subjected to a seemigly violent reaction of high voltage producing heat and light possibly last a lifetime?

Common sense dictates it must surely give up sometime, but apparently the tungsten filament does not agree, provided it is built slightly more sturdy than we actually build them or run at slightly lower voltage than they are rated for.

Finally, by rectifying the input voltage from 240 volts 50 Hz to 120 volts 25 Hz some people may notice a flicker in the bulb - some people won't as flicker is only detected by a human eye at below 24 Hz But to combat that, you can install a capacitor after the diode which will smooth out the waveform to be like D.C. and no flicker will be observable, also, the capacitor will help guard against the sudden surge when switching on and off.

When I worked for another company, I spoke with the engineering supervisor about this subject (he was one of the team that invented Ceefax for the BBC and his name was listed on the first generation mobile phone network patents as technology he developed was used by the network), he agreed with what I said and pointed out the much of the equipment we used which had buttons which were illuminated by bulbs when pressed, the bulbs rarely blew and this was because when the button was switched off, the equipment left a bit of DC current running through the bulb, but not enough to illuminate it. This kept the bulb 'warm' thus when you pressed the button and it illuminated the bulb to show the button was switched on, the bulb was not going from 'cold' to 'hot' it was going from 'warm' to 'hot' and as it was not such a violent change for the bulb, they didn't blow. Also, the equipment manufacturer built good power supplies into the equipment which prevented rippling of the power so the bulbs did not get to high a voltage and did not blow because of that condition.

So it seems the science is well understood by manufacturers and engineers and employed in 'professional' equipment where the customer demands higher reliability. But apparently, not many of us question why it can't be used elsewhere.

What annoys me, is the government and academics who advise government must be aware of these things and yet, while telling us we must be less wasteful they continue to allow manufacturer's to build and sell to us products that by design are wasteful. This situation then, is clear evidence of corruption and conspiracy in government, corporate and academic circles.

I have known for a long time that this humble lightbulb mystery actually proves the conspiracy and surpressed technology case beyond all reasonable doubt. (I'm just waiting for the world to catch up!)

Last edited by pi3141; 29-12-2011 at 04:47 PM.
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Old 29-12-2011, 04:45 PM   #16
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I have known for a long time that this humble lightbulb mystery actually proves the conspiracy case beyond all reasonable doubt. (I'm just waiting for the world to catch up!)
I fear you'll be waiting a while yet, unfortunately.
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Old 29-12-2011, 04:59 PM   #17
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Thanks.

I didn't explain it as well as I could have so let me add a few points.

Lightbulbs generally only blow either when transitioning from cold (off) to hot (on) or when a 'ripple current' propogates through the mains network and momentarily takes the voltage higher than it should be - say 245 volts instead of 240 volts. This is the 'over voltage' I wrote about and blows the lightbulb like a fuse. Lightbulbs are 'rated' at 240 volts so a momentary increase in voltage causes it to blow. ]

So its obvious by reducing the voltage from 240 volts to 120 volts (using the diode to perform half wave rectification and thus reduce the input power from 240 volts to 120 volts) even with a huge ripple current the volts will never go over 240 volts so the bulb will never blow.

However that means you will only get half the light out - so a 100 watt bulb will give 50 watts of light. Hence if you want 80 watts of light you use a 160 watt lightbulb. If you want a 100 watt light source you need to get the manufacturers to make a 200 watt bulb rated for 240 volts and run it at 120 volts. Hence it is obvious, it really is just a matter of making the rating higher. In theory, they could produce a 160 watt lightbulb rated at 280 volts, then the bulb would not break unless it blows when being switched on.

This is why I wanted to explain it after apollo mentioned the slightly higher lightbulb ratings that Edison produced, it is entirely logical that a slightly higher rated filament used in a lower voltage environment would result in a long lasting lightbulb.

When you think about it, it seems almost like a confidence trick - how could something so delicate such as a lightbulb, with a thin metal filament contained in thin glass bowl that has been vacuated and subjected to a seemigly violent reaction of high voltage producing heat and light possibly last a lifetime?

Common sense dictates it must surely give up sometime, but apparently the tungsten filament does not agree, provided it is built slightly more sturdy than we actually build them or run at slightly lower voltage than they are rated for.

Finally, by rectifying the input voltage from 240 volts 50 Hz to 120 volts 25 Hz some people may notice a flicker in the bulb - some people won't as flicker is only detected by a human eye at below 24 Hz But to combat that, you can install a capacitor after the diode which will smooth out the waveform to be like D.C. and no flicker will be observable, also, the capacitor will help guard against the sudden surge when switching on and off.

When I worked for another company, I spoke with the engineering supervisor about this subject, he agreed with what I said and pointed out the much of the equipment we used which had buttons illuminated by bulbs, the bulbs rarely blew and this was because when the button was switched off, the equipment left a bit of DC current running through the bulb, but not enough to illuminate it. This kept the bulb 'warm' thus when you pressed the button and it illuminated the bulb to show the button was switched on, the bulb was not going from 'cold' to 'hot' it was going from 'warm' to 'hot' and as it was not such a violent change for the bulb, they didn't blow. Also, the equipment manufacturer built good power supplies into the equipment which prevented rippling of the power so the bulbs did not get to high a voltage and did not blow because of that condition.

So it seems the science is well understood by manufacturers and engineers and employed in 'professional' equipment where the customer demands higher reliability. But apparently, not many of us question why it can't be used elsewhere.

What annoys me, is the government and academics who advise government must be aware of these things and yet, while telling us we must be less wasteful they continue to allow manufacturer's to build and sell to us products that by design are wasteful. This situation then, is clear evidence of corruption and conspiracy in government, corporate and academic circles.

I have known for a long time that this humble lightbulb mystery actually proves the conspiracy case beyond all reasonable doubt. (I'm just waiting for the world to catch up!)
There were other indicators re the conspiracy; the first ones that I became increasingly aware of were...
...after the recession in the late 70's, we were informed via the media that the financial situation wasn't as good as hoped. I knew straight away this was a lie because people had "put their backs into it" and "tightened their belts" all of the things that had been advocated by the media to get us out of the recession in fact. My parents, however, got annoyed with me and shouted me down making vague excuses for those in power...
...an increasing pressure to conform to greater demands for personal information and TPTB always doing the exact opposite of what they always said they would do. I'm still, thoroughly disgusted, by all the paper that gets pushed through my door only to go straight into the recycling bag: What's the point! The answer to that question has been answered, of course, because now I know it's all about subterfuge and sabotage.
Thanks for sharing your knowledge of the light bulb, it's fascinating stuff. I just wish I knew things of that nature as I'm trying to figure out alternative ways of obtaining free energy. I believe my best bet is cob.

http://www.simondale.net/house/

http://topdocumentaryfilms.com/first...-architecture/
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Old 29-12-2011, 07:38 PM   #18
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I fear you'll be waiting a while yet, unfortunately.
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Old 29-12-2011, 07:39 PM   #19
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There were other indicators re the conspiracy; the first ones that I became increasingly aware of were...
...after the recession in the late 70's, we were informed via the media that the financial situation wasn't as good as hoped. I knew straight away this was a lie because people had "put their backs into it" and "tightened their belts" all of the things that had been advocated by the media to get us out of the recession in fact. My parents, however, got annoyed with me and shouted me down making vague excuses for those in power...
...an increasing pressure to conform to greater demands for personal information and TPTB always doing the exact opposite of what they always said they would do. I'm still, thoroughly disgusted, by all the paper that gets pushed through my door only to go straight into the recycling bag: What's the point! The answer to that question has been answered, of course, because now I know it's all about subterfuge and sabotage.
Thanks for sharing your knowledge of the light bulb, it's fascinating stuff. I just wish I knew things of that nature as I'm trying to figure out alternative ways of obtaining free energy. I believe my best bet is cob.

http://www.simondale.net/house/

http://topdocumentaryfilms.com/first...-architecture/
Thanks, your very welcome.

You are right of course there were other indicators, for me, it was just an inner sense that the world wasn't right. So I started looking for answers and came across the usual 'urban legends' and 'conspiracy theories'. Finally nailing this lightbulb thing down while at college was the first real bit of first hand proof I could find, that and the supernatural.

As far as free energy advice, my best advice is don't put all your eggs in one basket. Find several sources to use, some can be conventional like solar as well as exotic like the Bedini system. But I don't think one source will solve it all. Secondly, don't think 'on demand' think storage, finding a system that can provide several Kwatt 'on demand' is not easy. I suggest a shed to store a load of car batteries on shelves, wired together and connected to a 240V inverter that can be connected to your fuse board as an alternative source, via a changeover switch preferably. That way, you can find a source that gives a fairly low but steady output, store it in your batteries until the peak usage times in your home. At the very least, you could charge those batteries up overnight on cheap electricity from the mains network and use them during the day when electricity is at its most expensive. That would reduce your bill while you figure out how to produce your own. Plus of course utilise all the eco tech to reduce need for heat etc.

Hope you can sort it out, good luck looking and if you want advice just post a thread I do check this forum fairly regulary and there are many others with interesting ideas and good knowledge.
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Old 29-12-2011, 08:43 PM   #20
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Thanks, your very welcome.

You are right of course there were other indicators, for me, it was just an inner sense that the world wasn't right. So I started looking for answers and came across the usual 'urban legends' and 'conspiracy theories'. Finally nailing this lightbulb thing down while at college was the first real bit of first hand proof I could find, that and the supernatural.

As far as free energy advice, my best advice is don't put all your eggs in one basket. Find several sources to use, some can be conventional like solar as well as exotic like the Bedini system. But I don't think one source will solve it all. Secondly, don't think 'on demand' think storage, finding a system that can provide several Kwatt 'on demand' is not easy. I suggest a shed to store a load of car batteries on shelves, wired together and connected to a 240V inverter that can be connected to your fuse board as an alternative source, via a changeover switch preferably. That way, you can find a source that gives a fairly low but steady output, store it in your batteries until the peak usage times in your home. At the very least, you could charge those batteries up overnight on cheap electricity from the mains network and use them during the day when electricity is at its most expensive. That would reduce your bill while you figure out how to produce your own. Plus of course utilise all the eco tech to reduce need for heat etc.

Hope you can sort it out, good luck looking and if you want advice just post a thread I do check this forum fairly regulary and there are many others with interesting ideas and good knowledge.
Brilliant! Thanks for all the advice, I'll start looking for those batteries
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