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Old 27-07-2018, 10:04 PM   #1
soylentgreen
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Default Meds are killing my friend (and alcohol)

My friend has many issues. He takes six different meds: 2 anti-depressants, 2 high blood pressure, one gout, and one cholesterol and five of them say NO ALCOHOL ! He drinks every day, all day. OK, so the first solution is to get him off the alcohol (not likely) But even if he gave up drinking, the meds will still destroy his physical and mental health. Like many people, he is afraid if he doesn't take the meds, he will die. I have read about all his meds and it's a bad combination (similar side effects... all made worse by drinking) I would rather see him be an alcoholic and stop taking the meds.
Here's the list: allopurinol, amitriptyline, simvastatin, lisinopril, przosin, and duloxetine. Yes, he is an idiot! He is on disability (and medicare) and might risk losing this if they found out he was not following the doctor's advice. What can I do to help him (bullet in the head)? Anyone familiar with John Steinbeck's book "of mice and men"? He is like Lenny and I am George (he's not actually retartded, but the meds and alcohol are making him so) He is a very big overweight guy and falls down, pukes blood, has the "shites" all the time, does stupid things, and so on. I feel he is a danger to himself and others (for example me) I know he can't stop the meds all at once... has to do this gradually. Any advice (assuming he will even listen)?
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Old 27-07-2018, 10:06 PM   #2
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Leave him to it
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Old 27-07-2018, 10:22 PM   #3
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Leaving the part of his free will for a mo. Even if he is a simple type of person, he still gets to choose what he does with his own health.

Have you actually tried to talk to him about what he is doing?
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Old 28-07-2018, 03:41 PM   #4
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Yes, we have talked many times. He knows and understands what this is doing to him. We are both in our 50's and he has this attitude like he almost wants to die. A few years ago, he went to a rehab... now he has slipped right back into his old ways. Why do I even care? I'm stuck with the guy... he is my roommate. I don't have a choice... need the extra money to pay rent. I was going to post this on the health forum (mods, feel free to move this thread) The ironic thing is the doctors gave him some of the meds specifically to compensate for being an "ex-alcoholic. That has backfired! I told him yesterday that the two meds I'm most concerned with are the amitriptyline and lisinopril. One is a dangerous anti-depressant and the other is commonly mentioned as the worst blood pressure med to take. If nothing else, I'd like to wean him off these. In my opinion, the only two he needs are the gout med and the other anti-depressant. BP meds don't actually specifically help BP... they just knock your whole system down. The cholesterol med is bullshit... he just needs to eat healthier foods (yes, I have done my homework)
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Old 28-07-2018, 03:45 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by soylentgreen View Post
My friend has many issues. He takes six different meds: 2 anti-depressants, 2 high blood pressure, one gout, and one cholesterol and five of them say NO ALCOHOL ! He drinks every day, all day. OK, so the first solution is to get him off the alcohol (not likely) But even if he gave up drinking, the meds will still destroy his physical and mental health. Like many people, he is afraid if he doesn't take the meds, he will die. I have read about all his meds and it's a bad combination (similar side effects... all made worse by drinking) I would rather see him be an alcoholic and stop taking the meds.
Here's the list: allopurinol, amitriptyline, simvastatin, lisinopril, przosin, and duloxetine. Yes, he is an idiot! He is on disability (and medicare) and might risk losing this if they found out he was not following the doctor's advice. What can I do to help him (bullet in the head)? Anyone familiar with John Steinbeck's book "of mice and men"? He is like Lenny and I am George (he's not actually retartded, but the meds and alcohol are making him so) He is a very big overweight guy and falls down, pukes blood, has the "shites" all the time, does stupid things, and so on. I feel he is a danger to himself and others (for example me) I know he can't stop the meds all at once... has to do this gradually. Any advice (assuming he will even listen)?
If he doesn't want to change, you are on a losing battle.
One that could drag you down with him, mentally if nothing else.

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Old 28-07-2018, 08:25 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by soylentgreen View Post
Yes, we have talked many times. He knows and understands what this is doing to him. We are both in our 50's and he has this attitude like he almost wants to die. A few years ago, he went to a rehab... now he has slipped right back into his old ways. Why do I even care? I'm stuck with the guy... he is my roommate. I don't have a choice... need the extra money to pay rent. I was going to post this on the health forum (mods, feel free to move this thread) The ironic thing is the doctors gave him some of the meds specifically to compensate for being an "ex-alcoholic. That has backfired! I told him yesterday that the two meds I'm most concerned with are the amitriptyline and lisinopril. One is a dangerous anti-depressant and the other is commonly mentioned as the worst blood pressure med to take. If nothing else, I'd like to wean him off these. In my opinion, the only two he needs are the gout med and the other anti-depressant. BP meds don't actually specifically help BP... they just knock your whole system down. The cholesterol med is bullshit... he just needs to eat healthier foods (yes, I have done my homework)
Amitriptyline is a fucking horrible drug - in my experience and opinion.
It's also a really old one, famous for people od'ing on it in the 70s - Nick Drake for one example.
I really don't understand why doctors are still prescribing it.
Why does your friend need to be on that as well as an SSRI?
Sometimes they prescribe ami for 'pain' - hmm. Don't know their arses from their elbows half the time ..
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Old 28-07-2018, 08:33 PM   #7
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He aint gonna change. He'll need to hit rock bottom and want to change himself.
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Old 28-07-2018, 09:44 PM   #8
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Don't be a Jesus OP.
In fact, your action undermine his personal power meaning that your action says he's powerless, when in fact that is counter productive.
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Old 28-07-2018, 09:50 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by soylentgreen View Post
Yes, we have talked many times. He knows and understands what this is doing to him. We are both in our 50's and he has this attitude like he almost wants to die. A few years ago, he went to a rehab... now he has slipped right back into his old ways. Why do I even care? I'm stuck with the guy... he is my roommate. I don't have a choice... need the extra money to pay rent. I was going to post this on the health forum (mods, feel free to move this thread) The ironic thing is the doctors gave him some of the meds specifically to compensate for being an "ex-alcoholic. That has backfired! I told him yesterday that the two meds I'm most concerned with are the amitriptyline and lisinopril. One is a dangerous anti-depressant and the other is commonly mentioned as the worst blood pressure med to take. If nothing else, I'd like to wean him off these. In my opinion, the only two he needs are the gout med and the other anti-depressant. BP meds don't actually specifically help BP... they just knock your whole system down. The cholesterol med is bullshit... he just needs to eat healthier foods (yes, I have done my homework)
You are not stuck with him even if you share a room. You can chose.
I think that is more of a lesson for you than for him.
I don't know where you are based, but I even say that both of you would be better off if he became homeless after you gently kick him out. The reason why I say this is that alchoholics have more chance of being housed in exchange of agreement to kick the habit via rehab. Then you can get yourself a new healthy conscious room mate. Both of you will be happy ever after that!
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Old 28-07-2018, 10:17 PM   #10
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Don't be a Jesus OP.
In fact, your action undermine his personal power meaning that your action says he's powerless, when in fact that is counter productive.
Trying to help someone doesn't necessarily undermine their personal power.

His friend is currently denying that he has any personal power, he is powerless because he believes he is powerless.

Perhaps OP can help him regain his belief in his personal power? Nothing wrong with wanting to do that imo.

OP, have you or your friend ever used psychedelics? Perhaps he needs something to 'shock' his psyche out the hole it has dug for itself. They have been proven (in a clinical setting) to help 'reset' the brains of people with depression.
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Old 28-07-2018, 10:21 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by oneriver View Post
Trying to help someone doesn't necessarily undermine their personal power.

His friend is currently denying that he has any personal power, he is powerless because he believes he is powerless.

Perhaps OP can help him regain his belief in his personal power? Nothing wrong with wanting to do that imo.

OP, have you or your friend ever used psychedelics? Perhaps he needs something to 'shock' his psyche out the hole it has dug for itself. They have been proven (in a clinical setting) to help 'reset' the brains of people with depression.
The point is he's not powerless even though he thinks he's powerless like many non-addict masses.

You can't tell people and make them understand such thing. It's a personal discovery. They have to find it themselves. If you tell them, they may understand the English sentences but does not click. This is the difference between understanding and innerstanding.
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Old 28-07-2018, 10:24 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by elshaper View Post
The point is he's not powerless even though he thinks he's powerless like many non-addict masses.

You can't tell people and make them understand such thing. It's a personal discovery. They have to find it themselves. If you tell them, they may understand the English sentences but does not click. This is the difference between understanding and innerstanding.
I agree with the bit in bold.

That's why I am suggesting loading him up with mushrooms or something, something to jolt him out of his stupor.
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Old 28-07-2018, 10:59 PM   #13
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nah shroom is weak.
Send him to Ayahusica retreat. He'd love it.

Another thing to think about OP...
If he really wants to quit then only help him half way.
He needs to show you that he's willing to move forward and not just you doing the work for him.

So if he's willing to become homeless, then do a search in your area how an addict can get help on housing, how system works in your area.
If he becomes homeless, may be you could store a box or two of his belongings until he gets his home. But don't offer these kind of help unless he's willing.

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Old 29-07-2018, 12:33 AM   #14
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Originally Posted by tinfoil hat View Post
If he doesn't want to change, you are on a losing battle.
One that could drag you down with him, mentally if nothing else.
Actually this is a very good point.

Unless an individual is already an expert and have control in one's life....
In this case, OP's life isn't from what I read....
Then OP is very likely to be dragged down.... infact, I think this is already happening imo.

It's like disease or virus...you can get infected by these kind of consciousness by association. So you sacrifice your life over this person who hasn't contributed much to your life other than paying rent....doesn't seem good deal to me. But go ahead and sacrifice your life if you wish. We all have free will and lessons to learn.

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Old 29-07-2018, 01:01 AM   #15
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Oh WOW! Thank you all, and I didn't wan't to get into all of this, but there is much more to the story.
It's the meds I am concerned about... the two I mentioned... bad stuff for sure. Don't worry about my psyc as I am very strong (I'm right, and the whole world is wrong) but the stress of dealing with this is getting to me. In some ways, he is a very interesting person, can be amazing and very sociable. He has no self control. Actually, there is hope. He recently got a part time job and showing very positive/motivated attitude. We both have no brothers, so we have realized that we are brothers... it's a good thing. My wife is sister to him. That's why I care ( if we didn't need help with rent, and had not bonded, I could give a sh*t) Here's where it gets interesting... we grew up in the 70's... drugs rock and roll and good times. I tended towards moderation, he is full balls to the wall. Yes we have done very wonderful things (LSD, shrooms, other mind opening things) and even talked about doing this again after all these years. I wanted to focus on the meds/alcohol issue (mostly the meds... that's why I posted on this forum) They once called him "the traveler" (you asked for this) because he went to some hippie event and some dude said to him "you're not with us", told him to hold out his palm and gave him massive dose of pure liquid LSD 25. So, this is not the answer (although we watched the movie "bucket list" and agreed we would fry together some day) OK, let's move on. I think the true solution is to teach him moderation. Get him off the worst of the meds, and yes... motivate him. This has drifted way off topic. I mostly wanted specific advice about the meds... thank you, and thank you for putting up with this long post. (once again, maybe should have posted to the health or even support forum)
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Old 29-07-2018, 02:24 AM   #16
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My friend, this is the cause...

Quote:
Originally Posted by soylentgreen View Post
Here's where it gets interesting... we grew up in the 70's... drugs rock and roll and good times. I tended towards moderation, he is full balls to the wall. Yes we have done very wonderful things (LSD, shrooms, other mind opening things) and even talked about doing this again after all these years. I wanted to focus on the meds/alcohol issue (mostly the meds... that's why I posted on this forum) They once called him "the traveler" (you asked for this) because he went to some hippie event and some dude said to him "you're not with us", told him to hold out his palm and gave him massive dose of pure liquid LSD 25. So, this is not the answer (although we watched the movie "bucket list" and agreed we would fry together some day) OK, let's move on. I think the true solution is to teach him moderation. Get him off the worst of the meds, and yes... motivate him. This has drifted way off topic. I mostly wanted specific advice about the meds... thank you, and thank you for putting up with this long post. (once again, maybe should have posted to the health or even support forum)

This is the effect...

Quote:
Originally Posted by soylentgreen View Post
My friend has many issues. He takes six different meds: 2 anti-depressants, 2 high blood pressure, one gout, and one cholesterol and five of them say NO ALCOHOL ! He drinks every day, all day. OK, so the first solution is to get him off the alcohol (not likely) But even if he gave up drinking, the meds will still destroy his physical and mental health. Like many people, he is afraid if he doesn't take the meds, he will die. I have read about all his meds and it's a bad combination (similar side effects... all made worse by drinking) I would rather see him be an alcoholic and stop taking the meds.
Here's the list: allopurinol, amitriptyline, simvastatin, lisinopril, przosin, and duloxetine. Yes, he is an idiot! He is on disability (and medicare) and might risk losing this if they found out he was not following the doctor's advice. What can I do to help him (bullet in the head)? Anyone familiar with John Steinbeck's book "of mice and men"? He is like Lenny and I am George (he's not actually retartded, but the meds and alcohol are making him so) He is a very big overweight guy and falls down, pukes blood, has the "shites" all the time, does stupid things, and so on. I feel he is a danger to himself and others (for example me) I know he can't stop the meds all at once... has to do this gradually. Any advice (assuming he will even listen)?
His life is balanced by alcohol and prescription meds. Cut out the self abuse and there won't be a need for the meds. Easier said than done, I know. It's a catch 22 situation. Cut out the alcohol, get some exercise, even if it's just regular walking, eat clean, and all those meds won't be needed. Perhaps time out of his current environment would help to re-evaluate his life?
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Old 29-07-2018, 06:37 PM   #17
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Good news. Getting back to work is really helping. Gives him a reason to "get his sh*t together". Also, on the days he works (evening shift) forces him to cool it on the drinking. Thanks again for all the advice and support.
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Old 11-08-2018, 09:23 PM   #18
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Leave him to it
Yes its very hard to try and help someone who is being controlled by the establishment........
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