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Old 29-09-2008, 08:53 PM   #1
dodeca
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Default Saturn & Venus

Venus would show at the left edge of Saturn, so that, if Saturn is understood as a large person in the sky, Venus, with its tail connected to Saturn, would be understood as his right arm, holding some object. This is the scepter of kings and chiefs, both in Mesoamerica and elsewhere in the world, the cudgel of Narmer, and the "strong right arm" of the "Ancient of Days" figure of the Kabbalah.





The lady goes round and round and now one understand the entrance of General Electric building:



Remember venus was born 4200 BC out of Saturn. Of one of it spokes(ribs) the lady is born. Adamkadmon spits out Eve.

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Old 07-10-2008, 08:24 PM   #2
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Elsewhere I have assumed that approaches by Venus happened repeatedly between 2349 BC (the 'Flood of Noah') and 2193 BC (the fall of Akkad), for a total of four contacts. Earlier occurrences of Katun 9-Ahau do not match these dates. Katun 9-Ahau in Baktun 1 ends in 2523 BC (corrected to 2497 BC), too early for the 'Flood of Noah' by 200 years, and Katun 9-Ahau in Baktun 2 ends in 2266 BC (corrected to 2244 BC), to late for the Fall of Akkad by one hundred years.
Katun 9-Ahau in Baktun 4 ends in 1497 BC, but should be corrected to end in 1486 BC, and thus corresponds to the time of the Exodus of 1492 BC (or other estimates from 1495 to 1491 BC).

I have to make note again of the fact that, because of the Maya understanding of the cyclical nature of time, repeated appearance of visiting planets are not separately listed, except in their titles, as in "Nine-Lives," "Ten Skies," and "He Who Fertilizes the Maize Seven Times." I do not know why there is no notice of Venus between 2350 and 2293 BC, unless it is simply that the earlier visits by Venus fell in Katuns of a different number. However, the events of the period of 2400 to 2300 BC are listed separately further below.

To return to the seven appearances of "Ah Uuc Chek-nal," I count four close passages of Venus between 2349 BC and 2193 BC, and, 701 years later, two in 1492 BC and ca 1440 BC. This adds up to six overflights. It is possible that the nova event of Venus in 685 BC, another 755 years later, represented the seventh. But this last event is not attributed to Venus, except as the Sun going off course in 685 BC (further below). I think, however, that all references to Venus in 685 BC, when Quetzalcoatl lived and died, were carefully deleted from the record for fear of revealing information to the Spanish priests.
The "Chilam Balam" continues with how the people walked in darkness...

"They moved among the four lights, among the four layers of the stars. The world was not lighted; there was neither day nor night nor moon. Then they perceived that the world was being created. Then creation dawned upon the world."

Just as a note, the words "and" and "then" are translated from the same Mayan word, which doesn't have the oblique distinctions between "concurrent" and "consecutive" of its use in the English language.

"They" probably refers to the people, but could also refer to the Gods. That they (the people) "moved" may suggest a migration, as is likely under the conditions of the climatic turndown of 1492 BC. The whole of the paragraph seems almost lifted from the Bible -- speaking of the wanderings of Israel in the desert after 1492 BC.

The "four lights" might be the great luminaries -- the Sun, Moon, Jupiter, and Saturn, although the same line read that there was no Moon yet. In 1492 BC there was a Moon. Roys suggests "candles" also for the "lights," but the Maya used torches, not candles. Bolio uses "the fourth fire" for the "four lights." The reference may be to the earlier event (2349 BC), since the Moon only showed up at that time. I think that the "four lights" are the four "trees" at the cardinal points, the impinging plasma plumes. It would be doubtful if these were seen under the condition of clouded skies. The use of "the four lights," even if meant to signify the directional trees, might thus be a simile for wandering over a wide geographical area.

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Old 09-10-2008, 09:35 AM   #3
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During the encounters, plasma interactions occurred between Venus and Mars, and between Mars and the Earth's Moon. These are described in the "Iliad" and the "Odyssey." The "Homeric Poems," which follow closely in time to Homer's epics, have similar descriptions. The "Iliad" retells the events of 776 BC as the interaction between the Olympian gods in the skies above Troy. The action is between the warrior goddess Athena (Venus), and the blood-stained god of war Ares (Mars), with Aphrodite (the Moon) as a bystander. To keep Ares from aiding the Trojans in the battle over Troy, Athena drives a spear into Ares' "lower belly, below his belt." The scar still shows as a 3000 mile long gash below the Martian equator. As Aphrodite approaches to help Ares, Athena bashes her in the breast. "And her heart bled [or melted]," reads the "Iliad."

The Iliad: http://classics.mit.edu/Homer/iliad.html

Mister scarface (ares):

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Old 09-10-2008, 06:57 PM   #4
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Thanks for this information.

What did you mean by the Sun going of course?

What is the relation to Venus?
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Old 09-10-2008, 10:35 PM   #5
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Good question minista,

The following describes the flare-up of Venus in 685 BC. It is, however, also listed out of place, because the event of 685 BC follows the repeated close calls by Mars in the 8th and 7th century BC, which are described (out of place) further below. The Katuns are here named. The individual pages are again being read in the wrong order.

"Then there came great misery, when it came about that the sun in Katun 3-Ahau was moved from its place for three months."


First, as I have noted earlier, the period of three months (60 days) exceeds the best estimate (from Zoroasterian sources) of the duration of the flare-up of Venus by a month. Since the movement of the Sun was most likely charted to sunset locations along the horizon, this would represent the earliest time that the axis of the Earth had started to relocate. I doubt if the phrase "moved from its place" has anything to do with the flare-up of Venus per se. The sixty days deal with the horizon setting location of the Sun. It is not a comment about Venus blazing in the sky.

Read more here: Katun 3-Ahau: the Sun http://saturniancosmology.org/chil.php
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Old 10-10-2008, 12:21 AM   #6
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Thanks for the link

Have you ever studied the works of Ian Xel Lungold? I believe that the next passage of Venus will be June 6th 2012. Is there any significance in the Chiliam Balam connected with that date? Forgive me, I'm still new at the Mayan calendar.
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Old 14-10-2008, 09:20 AM   #7
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Yes I have studied the works of Ian Xel Lungold and my conclusing is that he is making it way to complicated.

About the passage of venus on that date; it is of non importance for us as the system is completely different than in those days.
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Old 16-10-2008, 09:53 AM   #8
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It was in 1500 BC that the dragon Venus attacked Earth. This is the planet which had been "expelled from Jupiter's skull" at the time of the confrontation with Saturn (3114 BC), had swung into an elliptical orbit, and would blaze through the sky for 2400 years. Venus is the only 'God' which is almost universally recognized as having been 'born' during historic times, because the birth was seen by humans in 4186 BC (when Saturn went nova), or alternately seen as the separation from Saturn and Jupiter after 3114 BC. In China, Venus was the five-toed imperial dragon. In Mesoamerica, Venus was the feathered serpent Quetzalcoatl. In Greece, she was called Athena, sprung fully armed from the skull of Zeus. In Upper Egypt, she was Isis and Hathor, the celestial cow. In Lower Egypt and Libya, she was the warrior goddess Neith, who persists to classical Greek times. Plato notes that Neith is Athena. She was held as the generatrix of mankind and the mother of the Gods. The Egyptian queens and mothers of the first dozen Horus-named pharaohs after 3100 BC took Neith as their name.

more: http://saturniancosmology.org/moses.php
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Old 01-11-2008, 08:00 AM   #9
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The "Enuma Anu Enlil" records have been used by the Saturnians as one of the sources for the concept that Saturn was known in antiquity as "the Star of the Sun" and in fact was considered to be the Sun. Cardona and other Saturnians who used the essay "Sun and Saturn" (1910) by Morris Jastrow have been faulted for ignoring Jastrow's comments, to quote Leon Ellenberger..

"According to Morris Jastrow, Jr., in his 'famous' and oft-cited article 'Sun and Saturn,' Saturn was not given a specific name until after Venus and Jupiter were named, which is surely strange if Saturn was the primordial deity described by the 'Saturnists.'"

-- Ellenberger, "An Antidote to Velikovskian Delusions" in Skeptic (1995) or at http://abob.libs.uga.edu/bobk/velstcol.html

This sequences of naming, and similar faults, are entirely resolved if consideration is given to the sequence of events as I have proposed in this essay. The records in question all date to after 747 BC, although Jastrow suggest that some predate the period of Hammurabi (ca 1700 BC).

That Saturn is called "sun" (Shamas) is no surprise. Until 3114 BC Saturn indeed was the Sun, and certainly the "sun of the night." After 3114 BC, and until 2250 BC, with some interruptions, Jupiter assumed the role of the "Sun of the night" and was called Shamas. Some 1500 years after Jupiter disappeared from view -- became a star -- the Babylonian astronomers were suddenly pressed into service by the Assyrian kings. The names of the planets to be watched were derived from a 3000 year old tradition. Duplicated names could be sorted out when seen in context. Additionally, some tablets are annotated with indications of whether the daytime or nightime Sun was meant.

What none of the Saturnian commentators have done is to elucidate some of the truly strange wording of the tablets, like...

"Saturn stands in the halo of the moon"
"The moon has a halo around it and Saturn stands in it."
"When the sun stands in the place of the moon.."
"When a mock-sun stands over the moon (or) under the moon.."
"If Samas has a halo around it, there will be rain."
"When Jupiter [stands] in the sun.."
"If Venus approaches Samas, the King will perish." with a note explaining that here by Samas the Sun in meant.
A "sun-crown" above Venus...
"Dilbat [Venus] is decked with two crowns."
"A 'Samas' crown above the moon, is explained as 'Lu-Bat [Saturn] [standing] by the moon.'"
"If a mock-sun stands above the moon or below the moon.."
"If Mars reaches the road of the sun [the ecliptic] .. there will be a famine."
"The mock-sun and moon appear together," explained as "on this night Saturn approached (or 'was near') the moon."

On this last note, specifically, Jastrow starts to justify the texts of the tablets in uniformitarian terms, as..

"It would appear, therefore, that the association of sun with Saturn was carried to the extent of using even the term which stands for an image of the sun due to atmospheric conditions to represent Saturn. Naturally a 'mock-sun' or parhelion cannot stand above or below the moon or be seen anywhere near it."

"The term was intended to apply to a "mock-moon" and this phenomenon of a second moon was explained as due to the presence or reflection of Saturn near or standing by the moon."

"I venture to think, that we have in this naive explanation of an atmospheric phenomenon which seems simple enough to the modern astronomer, a suggestion as to the origin and meaning of this interesting association of the sun with Saturn, leading to the wide spread usage of the signs for Samas (An-UT and Amna) to represent Saturn."

"Strange as it may seem to us, the planet Saturn appears to leave been regarded as 'the sun of the night' corresponding to Samas as 'the sun of the daytime' and the cause of such light as the night furnishes. It was argued, that since there was a sun furnishing the light of day, so there must be some corresponding power which causes the illuminations of the heavens at night."

Besides the fact that such reasoning degrades the intellectual abilities of the Babylonians, none of these suppositions are necessary. The "crescent of the Moon," seen below, above, even on both the left and right, or seen in multiple units, are simply the diffraction of the light of a bright planet on approaching the last remaining band of the equatorial rings. It would be placed some distance away, probably 1/4 or 1/2 degrees, and thus make it appear as if the planet were placed within a Moon.

Mesopotamian "Star and Crescent" images show the star inevitable well within what would be the orb of the Moon, a situation which would not happen if the crescent genuinely belonged to the Moon.

The left and right diffraction, when a bright object were centered on the band of the equatorial ring, would result in an image identified as the 'double axe' in antiquity, although I would assume that the 'double axe's was more likely seen in remote antiquity, before 2349 BC, when the ecliptic dipped completely behind the still intact Absu. Jupiter, with its gigantic coma, would have been the candidate for this imagery. The handle of the axe, which is frequently, but not at all times, shown, is probably the south polar plasma plume. The double bitted battle axe is a fantastical invention of the current age. Even the tomahawk does not appear until the late Bronze Age.



Jastrow and others allowed that the situation of Saturn, or another planet, might be seen above or below the Moon because the Moon frequently runs off the ecliptic by some 5 degrees. What has not been accounted for, of course, is to have the Moon's crescent appear on the top or bottom. That does not happen in real life.

It is the same diffraction of the point light source of a planet when behind the last of the equatorial rings which causes the depiction of planets as a four and eight pointed figures.

It should also be pointed out again that this last equatorial ring was red. It would cause Sirius to appear as red when the axis of the Earth shifted. The ring was recalled as a rope in the sky by the low-land Maya -- "and blood ran through it." In the "Popol Vu" it is called the "river of blood."
The only hint at color comes from the tablet which reads, "If Mars reaches the road of the sun [the ecliptic] then.." Mars, colored red, would be nearly invisible behind the red ring and would appear to suddenly enter on the 'road of the Sun' as its travels along the ecliptic took it from behind the equatorial ring.

These conditions, including the 'planet within the crescent,' would only occur near the equinoxes, where the ecliptic crossed the equatorial ring in the sky.
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Old 07-11-2008, 09:17 AM   #10
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During the Mesozoic, proto-Saturn (Ouranos) orbited the Sun in what is now the asteroid belt. It was probably the only body orbiting the Sun, its immense size locking it into a binary system which astronomer's believe to be the more usual solar system formation. Earth and other satellites orbited proto-Saturn which dominated the skies, almost to the complete exclusion of the Sun and other celestial bodies; in comparison, the Sun was an insignificant body, proto-Saturn being the main source of heat and light.

The Earth was dominated by the large single super-continent Pangaea, with the World Mountain at its epicentre, and surrounded by a fresh-water shallow Sea. Only a non-rotating synchronous orbit, with the super-continent locked into and facing proto-Saturn, would account for this stability.

The climate was sub-tropical with high humidity. The synchronous (syn-, chronous: together with Saturn?) orbit meant constant light and heat, and hence no variation in temperature. There were no tidal forces in the large shallow Sea, and hence no sedimentation. There were no seasons and hence minimal tree rings.

Birds, mammals and our ancestors inhabited the planet during the Mesozoic, and co-existed with the dinosaurs. In much the same ways as our diversity exists today, cultures varied from the sophisticated, who lived towards the World Mountain, to the primitive who lived towards the ends of the super-continent. Giantism was common in this era of reduced gravitation, and size and bulk were no disadvantage.

The Earth and original satellites of proto-Saturn separated some 15,000-20,000 years ago, and the Golden Mesozoic Age came to an end. Proto-Saturn separated into may parts, to form the gas giants Neptune and Uranus. Proto-Saturn became Saturn. Part of the smaller debris became moons of the outer planets, and much remained in the original orbit as the asteroid belt. The events were witnessed by the peoples of the Earth, and became the basis of the ancient catastrophic mythologies, beginning with the Genesis event "Let There be Light". During separation, Earth was saturated with radiation from proto-Saturn, which caused much mutation and was the catalyst for new sequences of evolution for many generations. The same radiation rendered all forms of radiometric dating useless causing grossly exaggerated time-scales.

Separated from proto-Saturn, planet Earth commenced rotation and the charge focused on the World Mountain dispersed. Together, the Earth lost its inherent stability and with the new centrifugal force, the super-continent separated, and "drifted" changing the pear-shaped Earth into it present shape. The dispersion of the charge together with piezo-electro effects in the rocks, enabled the separation to take place in hours, rather than millions of years.

The survivors of the catastrophe found themselves in a completely new environment: lower temperatures, seasons, diurnal variations, a changed atmosphere, and an apparently greater gravitational effect. This was neither the environment, nor the "solar" system, in which life had evolved.
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Old 14-11-2008, 09:02 PM   #11
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Very interesting info
Thanks for that dodeca
--------------------------
Quote:
As you can see the emblem for the "Order Of The Eastern Star" is a pentagram - similar to that found on the UK Passport. An acknowledgement of the pagan deity Satan / Saturn.
http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showt...ghlight=saturn

Saturn - Satan - Black Sun -
Quote:
Wewelsburg Castle, built between 1603 and 1609.

Note: This is the only triangular castle in all of Europe, and its the castle in which Nazi SS leader Reichsfuhrer Heinrich Himmler held Black Sun rituals.
http://wikicompany.org/wiki/911:Occult_symbolism

See also: 'Black sun and Saturn symbolism' - http://www.wikicompany.org/wiki/911:...m_II#Black_Sun
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Old 14-11-2008, 09:58 PM   #12
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Imagine these currents increased. A circle of big electric current could melt a
circular section of the surface of Saturn, and thus promote the formation of
a new planet inside this ring. Even if Saturn is not hollow, a cylindrical piece
of crust could break away and being pretty hot, reshape into a sphere and thus
form a new planet. On the other hand the aurora ring could be evidence of a
section of the surface having already broken away. It is also evidence of a
large current travelling through the centre of the planet.

Venus is the only 'God' which is almost universally recognized as having been 'born' during historic times, because the birth was seen by humans in 4186 BC

Venus out of one of the spokes of saturn, like eve out of the rib of adam.
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Old 15-11-2008, 04:20 AM   #13
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Yes, very interesting dodeca. Hope you've got some more
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Old 15-11-2008, 06:57 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dodeca View Post
During the Mesozoic, proto-Saturn (Ouranos) orbited the Sun in what is now the asteroid belt. It was probably the only body orbiting the Sun, its immense size locking it into a binary system which astronomer's believe to be the more usual solar system formation. Earth and other satellites orbited proto-Saturn which dominated the skies, almost to the complete exclusion of the Sun and other celestial bodies; in comparison, the Sun was an insignificant body, proto-Saturn being the main source of heat and light.

The Earth was dominated by the large single super-continent Pangaea, with the World Mountain at its epicentre, and surrounded by a fresh-water shallow Sea. Only a non-rotating synchronous orbit, with the super-continent locked into and facing proto-Saturn, would account for this stability.

The climate was sub-tropical with high humidity. The synchronous (syn-, chronous: together with Saturn?) orbit meant constant light and heat, and hence no variation in temperature. There were no tidal forces in the large shallow Sea, and hence no sedimentation. There were no seasons and hence minimal tree rings.

Birds, mammals and our ancestors inhabited the planet during the Mesozoic, and co-existed with the dinosaurs. In much the same ways as our diversity exists today, cultures varied from the sophisticated, who lived towards the World Mountain, to the primitive who lived towards the ends of the super-continent. Giantism was common in this era of reduced gravitation, and size and bulk were no disadvantage.

The Earth and original satellites of proto-Saturn separated some 15,000-20,000 years ago, and the Golden Mesozoic Age came to an end. Proto-Saturn separated into may parts, to form the gas giants Neptune and Uranus. Proto-Saturn became Saturn. Part of the smaller debris became moons of the outer planets, and much remained in the original orbit as the asteroid belt. The events were witnessed by the peoples of the Earth, and became the basis of the ancient catastrophic mythologies, beginning with the Genesis event "Let There be Light". During separation, Earth was saturated with radiation from proto-Saturn, which caused much mutation and was the catalyst for new sequences of evolution for many generations. The same radiation rendered all forms of radiometric dating useless causing grossly exaggerated time-scales.

Separated from proto-Saturn, planet Earth commenced rotation and the charge focused on the World Mountain dispersed. Together, the Earth lost its inherent stability and with the new centrifugal force, the super-continent separated, and "drifted" changing the pear-shaped Earth into it present shape. The dispersion of the charge together with piezo-electro effects in the rocks, enabled the separation to take place in hours, rather than millions of years.

The survivors of the catastrophe found themselves in a completely new environment: lower temperatures, seasons, diurnal variations, a changed atmosphere, and an apparently greater gravitational effect. This was neither the environment, nor the "solar" system, in which life had evolved.
this post blew me away, and all this thread is amazing.

thank you dodeca
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Old 08-12-2008, 08:19 PM   #15
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Old 15-12-2008, 08:21 PM   #16
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Anahid
This and its variations Anahita and Anitis were the Persian and Armenian names for Venus, the star of Ishtar and Astarte, Mother Goddess of the Zend-Avesta; ruler of waters, stars, and Fate. The Mithraic Mysteries, though strongly male-oriented, retained Anahita as the necessary female principle of creation.




Anahita is the name of the ancient Persian Goddess of Fertility, Goddess of Water, and Patroness of Women. Her worship originated in Babylon and spread to Ancient Egypt then Armenia, Persia and various parts of western Asia. Also know as Lady of the Lions, or Lady of the Beasts, she is associated with rivers and lakes, the waters of birth. Anahita is the Mother Goddess and was also called Ishtar or Nahid.




Note the cresent moon;it sails the absu/heavenly waters/the seven seas aka 7-up,the cresent moon represents "archa noah" and the guy is very busy with the beasts (pairs)

In Persian culture, the myth is called as Anahita, Anahit, Anahiti, and Ardvi Sura Anahita. In Modern Persian, it is called as Nahid (spelled also as Naheed), which is the name of planet Venus. In Greek culture, it is called as Anahitis. The Greeks also associated Anahitis with either Athena or Aphrodite. It should be noted that there is a complete distinction between the Persian Myth of Anahita and Anat or Anath. In contrary to Anahita, Anat or Anath was a goddess of the Canaanites, Phoenicians, and Egyptians, which was regarded as the goddess of war and violence. The Egyptians usually depicted Anat carrying a spear, axe and shield, and wearing a tall crown surmounted by two ostrich feathers.





Anahita was and still is regarded as an ancient Persian Myth. She embodied the physical and metaphorical qualities of water, especially the productive flow of water from the fountain in the stars. She also ruled semen and human fertility. She was viewed as the "Golden Mother", "Goddess of Productivity", and as a "Warrior Maiden". She is associated with rivers and lakes, as the "Water of Birth".
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Old 17-12-2008, 08:23 PM   #17
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This one:



represents this one:

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Old 19-12-2008, 09:09 AM   #18
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Initially it is proposed that the Saturn system was meandering OUTSIDE our solar system, and was drawn in by a combination of it's trajectory and Sol's gravity. The severing from our initial host would have occurred as the plasmasphere of Saturn contacted the plasmasphere of Sol. Two Double Layers coming in contact... talk about all hell braking loose!

This is what the movie Star Wars is all about.

The sol being the guy who walks the sky and darth vader being saturn.
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Old 19-12-2008, 10:51 AM   #19
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ANAHATA chakra or the heart chakra, hence the VENUS/love connection...
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Old 02-01-2009, 09:15 PM   #20
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Most of our symbols comes from this couple:

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