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Old 05-08-2009, 05:29 PM   #4981
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ASK WHO WAS THE "BEATLE"
********************/mw83db

Quote:
... In the absence of fingertips and DNA samples of the methodology used all'antropometria identification and, in particular, to craniometria, based on some specific points. In the face of anyone, unchangeable and codified by the French nell'Ottocento Paul Broca. What are these? In scientific terms we could not define the distance between the pupils, the intersection between the nose and arched sopraccigliari the point where the base of the nose is detached from the upper lip, the shape of the jaw and Regulation, the ear. Then there's the shape of the skull...

The first step is to then find and select images to be able to proportion the best photos for quality and range, and provide measurements and comparisons...

Two images pre'66, made a comparison and carried on a single scale of reference for making the same proportions, show a perfect coincidence of the main key points. In particular, the mandibular curve, ie the line that leads to the computer to define the perimeter of the lower face, say from ear to ear via the chin, is substantially identical. The margin of error is less than one percent. "For the perfect coincidence between two images is virtually impossible," says Gavazzeni, by convention it is considered acceptable at most 2.5 percent of difference. Beyond this limit, the divergence is such as to suggest the difference in identity between the two entities in question. Since in this case the spread is less than one percent, the problem does not arise: the two photos certainly depict the same person. " It was at this point to search for other photos with similar characteristics, but after the alleged "incident"...


Quote:
That McCartney, certainly portrayed in the first half of 1967, was flanked by another picture, a few years later, taken between 1971 and 1972. The aim was to repeat the operation of comparison already made with images from the early sixties and then proceed with comparative findings from two groups of pictures. Again, the two new images is a good compatibility. It only remains to compare the image data prior to the date of the alleged incident and subsequent ones. "The surprise was great," says Gavazzeni: The mandibular curve between the two sets of photos showed a discrepancy of over 6 percent, well beyond the threshold of error. But there was more. Changed the development of the mandibular profile: before 1966 each side of the jaw is composed of two curves Net, since 1967 appears to be a single curve. There is therefore a curve morphological different...


Quote:
Gabriella Carlesi adds an additional element: "Compared to the previous picture, that of Sgt Pepper's show clearly that the commessura lip, that is the line formed by the lips of the two, it was suddenly stretched. Which obviously is not possible and that the whiskers can not camouflage. In other words, the phenomenon is all too frequently these days, the lips can be inflated and increased in volume, but the width of the lip commessura can not vary that much. May be slight, but this is not the case for the photos examined: here the difference between the before and after is too strong to have been caused by any surgery. And more, always under the mustache of the McCartney Sgt Pepper's, maybe it was trying to hide something else: what the experts call it the nose-spinal or sottonasale. This is the point between the two nostrils where the nose begins to fall off the face: "This is also in this case a distinctive feature that medicine can not alter surgery. It can change the shape of the nose but not the nose-cord, "says Gabriella Carlesi. "And McCartney from the first group of photos and the second point that clearly varies...

The challenge was made intriguing, would go ahead because other important issues waiting to be examined. Starting with the one in which Gabriella Carlesi excel and for which enjoys international fame: dental identification. More McCartney sings and shows you smiling more Carlesi collects food items for his doubts: "To me the proof of evidence is the shape of the palate, yet more than the teeth." ...

There are impossible things and things that are possible but at the cost of operations long, painful and never perfect. Especially if done in the sixties. Now, careful examination of some pictures of McCartney before and after the 1966 autumn leaves, it must be said, in amazement: "First of all there is right upper canine," observes Carlesi Gabriella. "In the photos prior to 1966 is known as protruding relative to the line of teeth. It's the classic case of a tooth that lack of space it ends up misaligned, pushed out by the pressure of other teeth. It is curious that the same dogs in the photos from 1967 forward, but without ever protruding apparent reason: the images show that the space would have to be aligned with the neighboring teeth. It's like if you wanted to recreate is a detail in a mouth where quell'anomalia would have never been able to express. " The real crux of the reasoning of dental identification suggested by Gabriella Carlesi covers the whole palate of McCartney that before 1966, appears close to the point of justifying various misalignments of the teeth, although in less obvious forms of upper right canine. After the publication of Sgt Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club Band, however, the palates of McCartney widens considerably, to the point that the front teeth does not rotate on its axis more as before. With the only on, than the usual canine. "A change of the shape of the palate, Carlesi concludes, 'in the Sixties was not impossible but would be very traumatic, the result of an actual intervention maxillo-facial. In practice McCartney should have been subjected to an operation that would involve the opening of the suture palate, broken bone and then a long prosthetic and orthodontic treatment. In other words, for a change so sensitive in the sixties to McCartney would be required not only a particularly painful and bloody, but also the use of a fixed orthodontic multiband then, for over a year. Which would not have been possible to hide and would be obvious repercussions on the performance of a vocal professional singer. "But above all," concludes Gabriella Carlesi, "reasons that Paul McCartney might have to undergo such an ordeal?"...


Quote:
Technically called trago. All we have two, one by ear, but the characteristics are different for every human being. "In Germany, a recognition procedure craniometrico, identification of the right ear even tantamount to fingerprint, ie the collection of fingerprints," recalls Carlesi. But what trago? It is the small cartilage covered with skin that overhangs the entrance to the ear and ear canal, like the whole ear, not be changed surgically. How then to explain the differences between the right ear of Paul McCartney in a previous snapshot to 1966 and probably a built in the late nineties? It is not only to betray trago a different conformation as well as other parts, just above the ear canal entrance, measurements and dell'antelice propeller. Things that ordinary mortals might seem irrelevant or unclear, but instead, every day, allowing the experts to locate and identify persons, bodies, photographs...
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Old 05-08-2009, 06:09 PM   #4982
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Originally Posted by faulconandsnowjob View Post
Yes we have read the article.

Let us look at the teeth issue.

First, are either of these "scientists" certified forensic odontologists? No. And out of all of the hundreds of thousands of photos they could have used, why would serious scientists pick these two? They are at different angles and the one on the right is of extremely poor quality.

Let us look at what really is involved in having proof.

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Ray Krone was sentenced to death for the murder of Kim Ancona, 36, a bar manager who was killed at the CBS Lounge restaurant where she worked. Krone was a regular customer at the restaurant/bar and knew Ancona. Krone had an alibi and his 10-1/2 shoe size did not match the 9-1/2 size shoe print left at murder scene. Hairs and partial fingerprints found did not match Krone either. However, police felt Krone's teeth matched a bite mark on the victim. Krone was dubbed the "Snaggletooth Killer" because one of his top front teeth stuck out. At trial, Dr. Raymond Rawson, a nationally known forensic odontologist, testified that he was 100% certain that bite mark on the victim matched Krone. After Krone's conviction was overturned, a retrial jury convicted him again in 1996 despite defense testimony from three forensic dentists that the bite mark did not match. This time the judge sentenced him to life in prison, citing doubts about whether Krone was the killer. In 2001, DNA testing of blood found on victim was matched to the actual killer, Kenneth Phillips, and Krone was released after serving 10 1/3 years.
In this case we had a nationally known forensic odontologist say he was 100% certain that a bite mark came from the accused. And this guy had the accused's actual teeth to measure and evaluate, not just some grainy 40 year-old photograph. And guess what. He was wrong. A guy went to jail because of it. And we are supposed to accept the word of people who are not forensic odontologists and who are only using poor photographs for comparison? I think not.

Let us see what experts say should be the standard of proof.

Quote:
The Innocence Project believes that all forensic disciplines need to be scientifically validated through truly independent research and peer review before the methodologies are used in criminal cases where life and liberty are at stake. Moreover, even if the methodology is valid, bias, incompetence, or a lack of adequate internal controls can compromise the integrity of the results.
This research does not meet the standard.

Last edited by formosan termite; 05-08-2009 at 06:22 PM.
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Old 05-08-2009, 07:29 PM   #4983
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Some people won't be convinced no matter what the evidence shows (makes me think of the info on disinfo agents posted earlier). I really have to wonder about the motives of people who post here insisting Paul wasn't replaced when the evidence clearly shows he was.
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Old 05-08-2009, 08:04 PM   #4984
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Originally Posted by faulconandsnowjob View Post
(makes me think of the info on disinfo agents posted earlier).
**sigh** "disinfo agent". Still pushing that after what I posted earlier? Yeah, the life as a disinfo agent has been so wonderful. Unlike others here, you really are cold-hearted.


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I really have to wonder about the motives of people who post here insisting Paul wasn't replaced when the evidence clearly shows he was.
The evidence clearly shows that he wasn't replaced. As demonstrated, that silly article does not meet the standards of proof. Even the "scientists" admit that in the article.

You didn't answer the question. Is either a certified forensic odontologist?

And the answer to that would be "No".
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Old 05-08-2009, 08:06 PM   #4985
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More on how photos have been tampered with - for one, to make Faul's head seem rounder.

ASK WHO WAS THE "BEATLE"
Fabio Gigante Andriola and Alessandra | 15 July 2009

Quote:
... And the surprises do not end there because the relentless Gavazzeni, like a boxer who feels close the ko of the opponent, not the spring taken on the photo where McCartney, unaware, mentions a somewhat smug 'perplexed: "To the naked eye is known what will be a constant in the photos from that moment on, a couple of photo retouching fairly obvious to an expert eye. There is a gray area that covers the outside corner of left eye. Only for some time not seen before. And going to peep at that point, where for years there was one dark spot, now there is a cross between a scar and a sign of skin stretched like an aesthetic touch. The most immediate explanation is that probably, already in the sixties, has been made for an action on the eyes but it is still something imperfect, that for a long time has gone forward a mask. " Then there is a detail concerning the conformation of the skull: "Indeed, the impression is that the shape of the head was given a 'more rounded', Gavazzeni says:" So in the reduced effective length, by a trick used at the time and realized that being printed. Eff CTIVITIES change the conformation of the skull of an adult is something impossible. Yet, judging from the photos, is exactly what it shows...

********************/mw83db
Looks to me like the Sgt Pepper pic of Faul on the far right is a blend of Faul & Paul.


I'm not sure how they did it, but they could overlay negatives to blend images together by the early 1900's.
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Old 05-08-2009, 08:12 PM   #4986
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Originally Posted by formosan termite View Post
The evidence clearly shows that he wasn't replaced. As demonstrated, that silly article does not meet the standards of proof. Even the "scientists" admit that in the article.
Unless you're a scientist, how could you possibly make that determination? You can't. You don't even know what you're talking about

Quote:
You didn't answer the question. Is either a certified forensic odontologist?
I realize you have to try to discredit the scientists in any way you can, but that will be a tough one. lol

ASK WHO WAS THE "BEATLE"
Fabio Gigante Andriola and Alessandra | 15 July 2009

********************/mw83db

Quote:
... Gabriella Carlesi and Francesco Gavazzeni are an odd pair: she is un'anatomopatologa, he a computer scientist. She is an expert in the recognition craniometrico, he puts the potential of computers available to a discipline born in the mid nineteenth century: the craniometria note. According to Zingarelli, "is the science that deals with the measurement of the skull in relation to anthropology and comparative all'Anatomia...

Now, to identify a person has absolute damage the two exams: the fingerprints and the DNA (if the sampling is done properly, which is not always the case). In the absence of fingertips and DNA samples of the methodology used all'antropometria identification and, in particular, to craniometria, based on some specific points. In the face of anyone, unchangeable and codified by the French nell'Ottocento Paul Broca. What are these? In scientific terms we could not define the distance between the pupils, the intersection between the nose and arched sopraccigliari the point where the base of the nose is detached from the upper lip, the shape of the jaw and Regulation, the ear. Then there's the shape of the skull.

In general, however, prefers to speak topographic anatomy, rather than specific points, to "regions", because within a few inches of skin can be more useful to establish similarities and differences. The Anthropometrics and craniometria, as have an nineteenth century are the basis of biometrics, the science used today for personal recognition by the most sophisticated intelligence of the world. Vast database of biometric data of terrorists are quickly and looked cross and, based on algorithms generated by the points of the face, reveal the true identity of people shot from cameras or photographed airports. As a Carlesi and Gavazzeni, meet their responsibilities and, as happens in the show, really see what we humans can not even imagine...


SCIENCE craniometria Anthropometrics and are the basis of biometrics that, for purposes of intelligence or medical conditions, measure the physiological variables of a human being through mathematical or statistical methods.
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Old 05-08-2009, 08:27 PM   #4987
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Originally Posted by faulconandsnowjob View Post

Oh, God. The old Sun King stuff from six years ago. This is like old home week. The one on the right is from the original 1967 album cover and is unaltered. The middle photograph came from the CD version of the cover. It was stretched vertically and cropped to make it fit.

See this link to see how that middle photo was stretched when doing the CD version.

http://www.tlcgraphic.com/paul2.html

Last edited by formosan termite; 05-08-2009 at 09:13 PM.
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Old 05-08-2009, 08:36 PM   #4988
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Oh, God. The old Sun King stuff from six years ago. This is like old home week. The middle photograph came from the CD version of the cover. It was stretched vertically and cropped to make it fit. The one on the right is the unaltered photo.
Is it really the same photo only stretched? In the one on the right his lips are slightly parted, aren't they? And the collar is not in the same position at all.
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Old 05-08-2009, 08:37 PM   #4989
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Unless you're a scientist, how could you possibly make that determination? You can't. You don't even know what you're talking about
You? The one who talked about them downoading Paul's mind into Faul's mind have the nerve to say others don't know what they are talking about? LOL! Wow. Where is the scientific basis for being able to download a mind? Especially with 1966 technology.

I can read. I have read about what the standard of proof is. I can read the article and see that there has been no peer review or independent verification. And I can read the article that clearly states that the "scientists" themselves do not claim it is proof.

Prove me wrong. Take this article and use it as a basis to sue Faul for fraud and report back after eveyone stops laughing. This article has been out for a while now. No one takes it seriously.


Quote:
I realize you have to try to discredit the scientists in any way you can, but that will be a tough one. lol
Answer the question. Is either a certified forensic odontologist?

Hint: The answer is "No."

**Hey. The first post on page 500**

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Old 05-08-2009, 08:42 PM   #4990
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Is it really the same photo only stretched? In the one on the right his lips are slightly parted, aren't they? And the collar is not in the same position at all.
No, not the same photo. There were many photos from that same photo shoot. The photo on the right with the more rounded face is from the original gatefold in the 1967 record album cover.

On the one in the middle you can look at the hair and see the funny angles and strait lines. Someone did a sloppy job cropping it. It looks like my kid cut it out with scissors.

See this link.

http://www.tlcgraphic.com/paul2.html

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Old 05-08-2009, 08:54 PM   #4991
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LOL! The truth is revealed. The photo they used was stretched! DOCTORED! No wonder the measurements don't work.



h/t Diabolo1
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Old 05-08-2009, 09:27 PM   #4992
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Photos have been doctored since Faul replaced Paul to improve the resemblance. That is nothing new. We've given several examples of that.






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Old 05-08-2009, 09:41 PM   #4993
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Originally Posted by formosan termite View Post
LOL! The truth is revealed. The photo they used was stretched! DOCTORED! No wonder the measurements don't work.



h/t Diabolo1
Great observation.

Which proves how unscientific the Wired article is. So much for faulconpoop's "proof". LOL!

The scientists should have used original photos, not dodgy photos handed to them by who knows?

Question is, who chose the photos to be used and where did they get them from? A PIDDER?

Let's look at the ear photos used:



Exactly the same photos as in Sunking's comp here:



http://digilander.libero.it/jamespaul/animations.html

What a coincidence!

(Thanks to Fireman for the above)

Something's very fishy about this Wired article and the photos used.

Look's like those scientists have been set up with some dodgy PID photos.
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Old 05-08-2009, 09:52 PM   #4994
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No, they have been flipped, stretched and doctored by pidders to make people think he looks different.

And now we have something important. This article now appears to be set up by the pidders from the start. We all know Sun King is Italian. Who supplied these "scientists" with these particular photos. Why were these chosen to the exclulsion to all others?

Look at the photos used for the ear comparison:



Now go to Sun King's web site and look at the ear comparison's there:

http://digilander.libero.it/jamespaul/animations.html

Here is an animation from Sun King, main Italian pidder himself:




Take a look. An exact match. The photos used by the "scientists" in the article exactly match the ear comparisons on the pidder website of Sun King. What are the chances that the these "scientists", with all of the hundreds of thousands of photos available, taken over more than 40 years would happen to choose the exact same photos, cropped the same way, as presented on the website of Sun King, who is happens to be pushing PID? Slim to none.

Who gave the "scientists" the idea to do this comparison? Possibly a pidder?

Who provided the photos used? A pidder?

Seems so.

**Seems the wise Socrates beat(led) me to it. LOL! Oh well, I will keep mine for emphasis.**

This article was a pidder set up from the beginning.

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Old 06-08-2009, 01:57 PM   #4995
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Guess what. Another was found.

Remember the teeth comparison?




Guess where was found the EXACT SAME comparison...


Yep, on this site again:

http://digilander.libero.it/jamespaul/show-case.html




LOL! This is hillarious.

Some scientific proof! All of these photos from the magazine article came from the PID website of Sun King. The same genius that says that Paul was replaced by the clone of a female WWII spy, who also happened to be the real Paul's mother. That is right. This scientific proof came from the guy who states that Paul was replaced by the female clone of his own mother.

So. These scientists did not get the idea on their own. They did not go to archives and get authentic original photos. These photos came from a PID website with a heavy PID bias. The pidders created this mag article and then, without giving everyone the full story, came out and declared that it is scientific proof of PID. It was NOT an independent scientific analysis. This article, and fraudconandsnowjob are frauds.

**I neglected to note that this was another masterpiece from Diabolo1**

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Old 06-08-2009, 03:44 PM   #4996
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Hey guys!

Total newbie here. I landed on David Icke's forums by chance, and have been around for not very long, but a while. Although I find some stuff a bit over the top, I must admit that I've spent reading threads more than I should, lol.

Sadly, this is almost the only thread that I feel I can understand at least, so I joined

Apparently there's a bit of a war waging around here, so I'm not totally sure about my posting anything. After all, I didn't even know that this Paul thing was still going on nowadays, I thought it was the urban legend that was being commented. I never heard the particulars, so I came in. Anyway, even if I haven't read the whole 500 pages, I've read a good bunch. There are points I see and points I can't bring myself to see, but well, that's because I am biased.

For those of you who firmly believe that Paul isn't Paul, my personal experience is nothing, so you can skip if you like. For the others, well, I'm not part of any PIA movement or web or anything, but in my family we do believe Paul is very much alive and well.

Back in the 60s, my grandfather was working in one of the zillion nightclubs in London. Grandpa...well, let's say he had some very characteristic and visible trait. One night, he had the chance to serve the Beatles, whom he found fantastic and all. In person, it seems he found them as animated and funny as they seemed to be. He even got to be the target of some jokes (Ringo instigator,lol). But he always said it was nothing hurtful or malicious (not that I doubt it, but he was such a fan that he could have been called every name in the book and find them hilarious, bless him).

The thing is that he always recalled with special sentiment how Paul and George didn't carry on with the joke that much. Actually they were very sensitive and sweet, especially Paul, who even started a little chat with him.

Grandpa only saw them one other time, just a wave at them I believe, nothing closer.

The thing is that years later, and I'm talking like 10 or more years later, Grandpa and my father had a chance encounter with Paul. Paul stood looking at him squinting a bit, then said: "hey, I know you, right? Do you remember me?"

And that's why in my family we all love Paul. We were never allowed any different

Of course, this is just a story. A story that could be totally made up for all you know, which is ok because I don't believe everything I read. But well, it is proof enough for me, who have heard Paul's anecdote forever. And here I am, spreading it further . I can almost hear Grandpa's cheering from wherever he is, lol.

No, but jokes apart, if 'Faul' recognised my grandpa, I suppose it's because he recalled seeing him before. And when they met, Paul was Paul for PIDs and PIAs all together.

On the other hand, I can see why some people might see another person. Paul really looked different after that break time they took. His face looked less rounded (lost of cheeks, I guess) and the hair...really, some trends should be banned at the first symptom of appearing, but well. To me, he looked still Paul.

I'm really intrigued with the PID theory, though. I'll try and search how some things are explained, like the voice, which I particularly can't hear any different, or the hands, that I have the habit of checking out on anyone. They seem the same to me, I don't know. Or the teeth. Or those freckles.

I also will see what this article with the proofs is about. Haven't heard of it yet, so I'll try and see.

Anyway, peace! I'm off now to keep on browsing around.

Elisa ~

Last edited by elisa; 06-08-2009 at 04:19 PM. Reason: Total lack of proper grammar :)
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Old 06-08-2009, 04:19 PM   #4997
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Hey guys!

Total newbie here. I landed on David Icke's forums by chance, and have been around for not very long, but a while. Although I find some stuff a bit over the top, I must admit that I've spent reading threads more than I should, lol.

Sadly, this is almost the only thread that I feel I can understand at least, so I joined

Apparently there's a bit of a war waging around here, so I'm not totally sure about my posting anything. After all, I didn't even know that this Paul thing was still going on nowadays, I thought it was the urban legend that was being commented. I never heard the particulars, so I came in. Anyway, even if I haven't read the whole 500 pages, I've read a good bunch. There are points I see and points I can't bring myself to see, but well, that's because I am biased.

For those of you who firmly believe that Paul isn't Paul, my personal experience is nothing, so you can skip if you like. For the others, well, I'm not part of any PIA movement or web or anything, but in my family we do believe Paul is very much alive and well.

Back in the 60s, my grandfather was working in one of the zillion nightclubs in London. Grandpa...well, let's say he had some very characteristic and visible trait. One night, he had the chance to serve the Beatles, whom he found fantastic and all. In person, it seems he found them as animated and funny as they seemed to be. He even got to be the target of some jokes (Ringo instigator,lol). But he always said it was nothing hurtful or malicious (not that I doubt it, but he was such a fan that he could have been called every name in the book and find them hilarious, bless him).

The thing is that he always recalled with special sentiment how Paul and George didn't carry on with the joke that much. Actually they were very sensitive and sweet, especially Paul, who even started a little chat with him.

Grandpa only saw them one other time, just a wave at them I believe, nothing closer.

The thing is that years later, and I'm talking like 10 or more years later, Grandpa and my father had a chance encounter with Paul. Paul stood looking at him squinting a bit, then said: "hey, I know you, right? Do you remember me?"

And that's why in my family we all love Paul. We were never allowed any different

Of course, this is just a story. A story that could be totally made up for all you know, which is ok because I don't believe everything I read. But well, it is proof enough for me, who have heard Paul's anecdote forever. And here I am, spreading it further . I can almost hear Grandpa's cheering from wherever he is, lol.

No, but jokes apart, if Faul recognised my grandpa, I suppose it's because he recalled seeing him before. And when they met, Paul was Paul for PIDs and PIAs all together.

On the other hand, I can see why some people might see another person. Paul really looked different after that break time they took. His face looked less rounded (lost of cheeks, I guess) and the hair...really, some trends should be banned at the first symptom of appearing, but well. To me, he looked still Paul.

I'm really intrigued with the PID theory, though. I'll try and search how some things are explained, like the voice, which I particularly can't hear any different, or the hands, that I have the habit of checking out on anyone. They seem the same to me, I don't know. Or the teeth. Or those freckles.

I also will see what this article with the proofs is about. Haven't heard of it yet, so I'll try and see.

Anyway, peace! I'm off now to keep on browsing around.

Elisa ~

That is a great story. That was quite nice of Paul.
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Old 06-08-2009, 04:54 PM   #4998
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Hi Elisa. What a great anecdote.

The fact that Paul recognised your grandfather is proof enough for you and him that Paul was never replaced. How would an imposter know?

Paul is alive.
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Old 06-08-2009, 06:07 PM   #4999
faulconandsnowjob
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I'm going to be quite blunt here. People don't change their eye color, their facial features, & grow 2 inches in their mid-20's. If you think Paul is the same after 1966, then you're either a disinfo agent or just plain stupid.

Last edited by faulconandsnowjob; 06-08-2009 at 06:07 PM.
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Old 06-08-2009, 06:18 PM   #5000
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Quote:
Originally Posted by faulconandsnowjob View Post
I'm going to be quite blunt here. People don't change their eye color, their facial features, & grow 2 inches in their mid-20's.
No, they don't.

Quote:
If you think Paul is the same after 1966, then you're either a disinfo agent
You know all about "disinfo". 'Paul didn't have freckles', 'Scientists prove Paul wasn't replaced'... etc. LOL!

All bullshit.

Quote:
or just plain stupid.
Says the person who thinks they may have downloaded Paul's mind into 'Faul's's brain.

You are just going round and round in circles, posting the same responses, the same photos over and over and over and over and over and over....

I bet you just cut and paste your responses from your previous posts.

Last edited by pinkfreud; 10-08-2009 at 07:38 AM. Reason: name calling
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