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Old 08-04-2012, 11:28 PM   #1
arcyclus
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Default **DHS Preparing For Civil War In The US?**

Keep in mind DHS is not part of the US military. DHS is supposed to be for domestic use.

So why is DHS ordering 450 million rounds of ammunition?

http://www.infowars.com/dhs-preparin...war-in-the-us/
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Old 08-04-2012, 11:49 PM   #2
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Default Discussed previously.

http://forum.davidicke.com/showthread.php?t=205499

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By buying a commodity in advance an organization can lock in a price. Airlines do this with fuel -- they buy a year or more of fuel at a given price to minimize price change impact on the bottom line.

Also, government agencies need to spend all of the money in their budget every year or their budget gets cut the next year by the amount they didn't spend. Thus, nearly every government office ends up with closets full of post-it notes or paper towels.

Ammo prices can be pretty dynamic, and availability can be curtailed by unpredictable outside forces. Law enforcement agencies wouldn't want to be "out of bullets." After Obama was elected all the right-wing nutjobs freaked out, convinced the commie muslim nigger was going to take away guns from whitey (or something). So people bought, literally, all the ammo in every caliber in the entire country. Like a classic "run on the bank" a feedback loop was created. People went into stores, saw empty shelves and flipped, buying stupid amounts of ammo in calibers they didn't even need. So the next customer came in, saw even more empty shelves, and bought a lifetime supply of reloading supplies. And so on.

Prices rose accordingly.

It got to the point where stores were sold out of ammo several shipments ahead, because people were buying ammo that wasn't even delivered yet. I couldn't buy lead of any weight or style or primers of any type for Mrs. Gnomon's .357 so I canceled our membership at the gun club, reloaded everything I could and put it in a box. In my National Guard unit we didn't go to the range to qualify with our M16s for 3 years, between the stupid wars using military ammo and the stupid people in the States buying insane amounts of brass, powder and lead.
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My only question is what exactly the DHS needs with all these bullets? ICE I understand, but what armed officers fall under the DHS?
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U.S. Customs and Border Protection: Law enforcement agency that enforces U.S. laws along its international borders (air, land, and sea) including its enforcement of U.S. immigration, customs, and agriculture laws while at and patrolling between all U.S. ports-of-entry.

United States Coast Guard: Military service responsible for law enforcement, maritime security, national defense, maritime mobility, and protection of natural resources.[12]

United States Secret Service: Law enforcement agency that investigates threats against and provides protective services for the President and Vice President of the United States and their immediate families as well as other important governmental officials. It also investigates crimes against the U.S. monetary system including the crime of counterfeiting U.S. currency and other financial instruments.

Federal Law Enforcement Training Center: Interagency law enforcement training facilities located in Georgia, New Mexico, and South Carolina.
450 million bullets sounds like a lot, but this is spread over 5 years for all the above agencies.

Last edited by apollo_gnomon; 08-04-2012 at 11:52 PM.
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Old 08-04-2012, 11:51 PM   #3
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Maybe they are getting ready to force ppl into fema camps!!!!!!

They know ppl are getting madder and madder @ whats going on in this country..
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Old 08-04-2012, 11:53 PM   #4
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Of course. Someone had to go there.
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Old 08-04-2012, 11:54 PM   #5
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Originally Posted by apollo_gnomon View Post
http://forum.davidicke.com/showthread.php?t=205499







450 million bullets sounds like a lot, but this is spread over 5 years for all the above agencies.
Thanks for the input. Hope you are right.
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Old 09-04-2012, 12:23 AM   #6
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Maybe they are getting ready to force ppl into fema camps!!!!!!

They know ppl are getting madder and madder @ whats going on in this country..
LOL! Doubt it!
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Old 09-04-2012, 02:02 AM   #7
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The issue isn't really the number ordered, but the type; Hollow Point, also known as "Dum Dum" rounds, are designed to enter but not exit the human body, this is so they cause massive amounts of internal tissue damage and don't exit your target and into someone that isn't your target.

450 million I could also accept if they were rounds to be expended in the range, but Hollow Point ammo is more expensive than standard rounds so really you'd only purchase Hollow Points if you thought you'd actually be using them against a human target rather than spending them down the range.

Hollow Points are nasty rounds and are actually illegal to use in warfare, outlawed by the The Hague Convention of 1899. That said they are used by the police and civilians in peace time as it's useful to prevent the bullet going through your target and into an innocent person. Again, you don't need to avoid collateral damage if you're expending the rounds in the range.

So why 450 million Hollow Point rounds? That's enough to put a bullet in every U.S. citizen and have a 100 million left.

Regards,

Jack

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Old 09-04-2012, 02:54 AM   #8
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Originally Posted by mk_ultra View Post
The issue isn't really the number ordered, but the type; Hollow Point, also known as "Dum Dum" rounds, are designed to enter but not exit the human body, this is so they cause massive amounts of internal tissue damage and don't exit your target and into someone that isn't your target.

450 million I could also accept if they were rounds to be expended in the range, but Hollow Point ammo is more expensive than standard rounds so really you'd only purchase Hollow Points if you thought you'd actually be using them against a human target rather than spending them down the range.

Hollow Points are nasty rounds and are actually illegal to use in warfare, outlawed by the The Hague Convention of 1899. That said they are used by the police and civilians in peace time as it's useful to prevent the bullet going through your target and into an innocent person. Again, you don't need to avoid collateral damage if you're expending the rounds in the range.

So why 450 million Hollow Point rounds? That's enough to put a bullet in every U.S. citizen and have a 100 million left.

Regards,

Jack
Excellent point, thanks fro the clarification.
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Old 09-04-2012, 04:00 AM   #9
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DHS's name is derived from a Clinton neocon-era proposal. For an American, 'homeland' is a very foreign and alien name that has never been associated with the USA.

Homeland has been used in the world though, in Germany, in Russia, and in Israel. It German, homeland is not a word but rather a concept called Heimat. It's pretty similar to the Hebrew Moledat. In classic Hebrew, Moledat essentially means 'common era'

The department of common-era security. Preserving the status quo, the ruling class, silencing dissent. When you think about it, it makes sense. DHS should be thought of by Americans as a foreign police force. Anybody who works for DHS is a traitor. Their nudey x-ray machines kill unborn babies and give the employees cluster tumors (good, they deserve it). Thank Michael 'of the devil' Chertoff for those.

I'm waiting for the day that Americans realize that since the 50s, foreigners under communist and Marxist influence have infiltrated the government at the highest level and have destroyed it from the inside out (they call themselves neocons and liberals). That the USA and the West already live in a police state, one that they willingly accepted. That they have usurped the US constitution and turned a constitutional republic into a financial democracy via a foreign criminal banking cabal. Because when they do realize these facts, I would hate to be in DHS's shoes. Or a police officer. Or a politician. Or anybody connected with Wall Street and the financial sector, corporations, or anybody of tremendous wealth. Because folks among their ranks are part of the problem. And when the problem is identified and revolution has commenced, nobody will care about the innocent exceptions. They will all be slaughtered like cattle, French reign of terror style.

Last edited by believenothing; 09-04-2012 at 04:01 AM.
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Old 09-04-2012, 04:53 AM   #10
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Originally Posted by mk_ultra View Post
The issue isn't really the number ordered, but the type; Hollow Point, also known as "Dum Dum" rounds, are designed to enter but not exit the human body, this is so they cause massive amounts of internal tissue damage and don't exit your target and into someone that isn't your target.
The primary reason law enforcement uses hollowpoints is for stopping power. They are not interested in wounds, but in ending the situation. And yes, preventing bullets from overpenetrating prevents collateral damage.

Also, some ranges forbid the use of NON hollowpoints, as FMJ can damage the backstop and target holders more.

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450 million I could also accept if they were rounds to be expended in the range, but Hollow Point ammo is more expensive than standard rounds so really you'd only purchase Hollow Points if you thought you'd actually be using them against a human target rather than spending them down the range.
Not sure where you buy your ammo, but where I buy ammo hollow points are not more expensive than FMJ. Sometimes the opposite is true. Also, you should train with the ammo you use.

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Hollow Points are nasty rounds and are actually illegal to use in warfare, outlawed by the The Hague Convention of 1899. That said they are used by the police and civilians in peace time as it's useful to prevent the bullet going through your target and into an innocent person. Again, you don't need to avoid collateral damage if you're expending the rounds in the range.
Again, you train the way you fight. Or should. If your pistol stovepipes on hollowpoints (a cleanliness or wear cycle effect) you need to know that, but training with FMJ wouldn't show the error.

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So why 450 million Hollow Point rounds? That's enough to put a bullet in every U.S. citizen and have a 100 million left.
First, the arrangement is for 5 years. That's 9 million rounds per year.

Second, the DHS includes several armed agencies and the Federal Law Enforcement Training Centers.
US Customs and Border protection has 45600 officers.
US Coast Guard has over 42000 active duty members, plus reservists.
Secret Service has 4400 sworn officers

That's 92000 people who need to train and qualify with weapons one or more times per year, and that's not even taking into account number of people who run through training at the Federal Law Enforcement Training Centers.

9 million (9,000,000) rounds divided by 92,000 people is only 97 rounds per shooter per year. Frankly, that seems low. Most recreational shooters burn a hundred or 2 hundred rounds in a session, once or twice a month.


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Regards,

Jack

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Old 09-04-2012, 07:46 AM   #11
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450 million divided by 5 is 90 million.
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Old 09-04-2012, 09:32 AM   #12
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If dum dum bullets are banned, how come this sort of thing is allowed? It's shocking
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Old 09-04-2012, 04:26 PM   #13
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If the government or any organization affiliated with it were to have some kind of a plan in any relation, no matter how minute, to civil war/marshall law, you would NOT know about it until it happens.

duh duh duh
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Old 09-04-2012, 08:03 PM   #14
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Originally Posted by springcleaningyet View Post
450 million divided by 5 is 90 million.


Okay, so that makes it 970 rounds per shooter per year. I should have checked my math when I came up with 97 Thanks.

But still, a reasonable number.

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Old 09-04-2012, 08:09 PM   #15
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If dum dum bullets are banned, how come this sort of thing is allowed? It's shocking
Secret Particle Weapons In Iraq 1 of 3 - YouTube
Hollow point, explosive and fragmenting rounds are banned for uniformed military use by Geneva convention, along with chemical weapons. The reason is that horrific wounds make it harder to make peace after war. Better to either kill outright or make a clean, surgically operable wound.

Domestic law enforcement has no restriction in this regard, nor do private citizens. Mrs. Gnomon's home defense pistol has a couple of speed-loaders of .357 hollowpoints in the pistol safe along with a tactical flashlight.
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Old 09-04-2012, 08:58 PM   #16
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Just a weird thought...

The number 500,000,000 (rounds ordered) is the same number on the Georgia Guidestones where it says "Maintain humanity under 500,000,000 in perpetual balance with nature". Just thought it was a weird coincidence. That is all.

Carry on.
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Old 09-04-2012, 09:05 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by apollo_gnomon View Post
Hollow point, explosive and fragmenting rounds are banned for uniformed military use by Geneva convention, along with chemical weapons. The reason is that horrific wounds make it harder to make peace after war. Better to either kill outright or make a clean, surgically operable wound.
Not bashing on you or your post, but I think it's ironic how the military can be so "ethical" in regards to the type of round used in small arms weapons because they care about the type of wounds inflicted on humans, yet they allow grenades, rocket launchers, Tanks, Bunker Busters, Predator Drones with Hellfire Missles, AC-130 Gunships, Apache Helicopters, A-10's, F-15/16/18/22's, and numerous other destructive "weapons" to be used in the battlefield, all which cause far worse damage than a simple hollow point, explosive or fragmenting round. Good thing they care about people right?
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Old 09-04-2012, 10:16 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by rexypoo View Post
Not bashing on you or your post, but I think it's ironic how the military can be so "ethical" in regards to the type of round used in small arms weapons because they care about the type of wounds inflicted on humans, yet they allow grenades, rocket launchers, Tanks, Bunker Busters, Predator Drones with Hellfire Missles, AC-130 Gunships, Apache Helicopters, A-10's, F-15/16/18/22's, and numerous other destructive "weapons" to be used in the battlefield, all which cause far worse damage than a simple hollow point, explosive or fragmenting round. Good thing they care about people right?
Absolutely
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Old 10-04-2012, 01:34 AM   #19
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Originally Posted by rexypoo View Post
Not bashing on you or your post, but I think it's ironic how the military can be so "ethical" in regards to the type of round used in small arms weapons because they care about the type of wounds inflicted on humans, yet they allow grenades, rocket launchers, Tanks, Bunker Busters, Predator Drones with Hellfire Missles, AC-130 Gunships, Apache Helicopters, A-10's, F-15/16/18/22's, and numerous other destructive "weapons" to be used in the battlefield, all which cause far worse damage than a simple hollow point, explosive or fragmenting round. Good thing they care about people right?
I'm disinclined to disagree on this point.
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Old 10-04-2012, 03:27 AM   #20
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So why is DHS ordering 450 million rounds of ammunition?
That is how Tax payers money is fleeced to private interests
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