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Old 17-07-2012, 03:50 PM   #12
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Hopefully I can illustrate to some extent what I have been wrestling with and laughing my head off at since yesterday when I was introduced to the idea and desperately looking for loopholes

Originally Posted by reverendsquid View Post
I'm not the brightest, so forgive me if this is an obvious question, but isn't there always a small element of free will, even if you take into account your unconscious and your past experiences?

For example, I saw Unicorny's post and thought 'I won't read that, I'm rubbish at science' , and then I decided to read it anyway, just in case I understood it. (I didn't, or not much of it, because I am rubbish at science). But the point is, I made a choice. There were also a number of other things I could have done - turned the computer off, made chicken noises, looked at another site to help me make sense of it, PM'd Unicorny to ask what s/he meant..and I understand that the likelihood of me making any of those choices comes down to my background and inclinations. It's still a choice that I make, though. It might be statistically more likely that I'll do one of those things, but I'm aware of the others and can decide. For example, next time I might just decide to make chicken noises.

I hope I don't sound flippant, I'm very interested in what you have to say, but I need a bit of clarification, I think!
The point is kind of that you could have done all those things but you didn't.
you did what you did and that was based on past and present experiences in one form or another.

Originally Posted by zephirop View Post
True but with some caveat, if I chose to saw my own leg off right now, that was a action of free will, it will change my life in a way I will always be responsible for.

True random acts are the only way to make sure you are not being fucked over by 'fate'.

What you are saying is quite true though, but it's such an infinite web of cause and effect, who could gain any insight from it?
It wouldn't be a random act at all because you only thought of it because you thought if i did a random act that would be free will and you only thought that because you were looking at this thread

Originally Posted by oiram View Post
So when People vote for known evil its "God's Will"?

Or the will of the Gods?

Or was it your personal individual free choice & God's Will therefore God's fault?

To me it looks like finding someone to blame others then yourself.......

I truly know the effect of the voters voting causing Evil & Shit for all.

The cause needs a actor ..... no actor no cause! ..... even the Will is not a actor ..... it needs a body to cause something.
Without a actor making the cause happen there will be no effect, effecting anyone.

"God's Will" .... OK..... nice..... what's next ..... blame the Aliens?

I'm not keen on the whole god bit that sandy put in there I prefer to see it as a universe in flux and no
single action can happen that has not been caused in some way by past actions ...... we are all one

and it's not about blame either just cause something has a cause and effect it doesn't mean that there is blame it almost negates all blame really

Originally Posted by ufochick View Post
If we REact with the programs we are born with and accumulate from society then yes free will is a joke. It's like living life on auto pilot. However if we CHOOSE our actions and reactions and don't just hang on for the ride it is a completely different set of rules.
we do yes but learn about another way of being and that effects the path we take, as it gives us different ways of looking at things the cause and effect thing actually. In some ways it's kind of irrelevant and wont effect your life in any way by realising any of this, but at the same time you can let go of all that blame towards others and guilt that we pile on ourselves because we did what we did.

To be honest there is no way of knowing for sure, not from inside this universe's reality anyway, but the law of cause and effect seems pretty rock solid if anyone can find a way round it then please let me know.
"Humanity has advanced, when it has advanced, not because it has been sober, responsible, and cautious, but because it has been playful, rebellious, and immature" Tom Robbins

Last edited by unicorny; 17-07-2012 at 04:04 PM.
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