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Old 22-09-2012, 12:52 PM   #242
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Originally Posted by tony 1 View Post

I agree with much of what you are saying re that our actions are not governed by 'God's will' and that we do have our own 'free will' and can exercise it. However, we can only do that in a relative sense here on earth.
Just one example of you excersising your free wil?

The law of cause and effect is also an aspect of relativity - in the finite universe everything is relative and duality prevails and everything that manifests in concrete form is thus subject to duality, and limitation. It is also subject to the law of cause and effect - if we pretend otherwise we end up with a some sort of thesis based on absolute chance.

All change of position, substance, or form is the result of some form of causality; there is no such thing as absolute chance. Nothing can happen for no reason at all for nothing exists in isolation; everything is part of an intricate web of causal interconnections and interactions.
Definitly, Chance and co-incidence do not exist. They are just words that we employ to make sense of seemingly random occurences, which in fact are not random at all.

Causal laws do not preclude the responsibility for our actions neither do they preclude our free will which is consistent with cause and effect. If free will cannot be a fortuitous phenomenon it must therefore be a causal phenomenon as it involves selfconscious self-determinism.
They must do, if we accept cause and effect, then we are definitly not responsible for our action, how can we be. We are a direct product of our experience and our environmment, as I said before, if you had EXACTLY the same experience and envioronment as Adolf Hitler, you woul have acted in EXACTLY the same way.

How is it possible for an abstraction referred to as God that is supposed to be infinite and separate from us to also have concrete attributes such as will, and be capable of an act or acts of willing anything and also of acting in accordance with such a will in relation to finities?
Depends totally on what your concept of God is. My concept of God doesn't involve him willng anything once everything started, it was all only going to happen one way and the soul was going to experience every single thing the reality has to offer.

If such a deity is responsible for everything that happens in the universe because it is his own direct doing; and the supposition, absurd as it is, likewise forbids the existence of free will and self-initiative in any minutest degree in any entity. This is not to say that the archetype or prototype of the Will does not exist within the infinitude of the Boundless All, but THAT is not a personal God as Sandwarrior seems to suggest but Will in that sense is not a concrete will of any particular concrete human being.
Your philosophy proposes a God with a will and he is responsible for everything then supposes that we have a free will, which could presumably go against Gods will.

You see the problem?

Only finite beings have wills that can actually be exercised or acted upon if they have been developed in the course of spiritual evolution.
Will is totally different to free will.
Eating a lamb for the way it tastes is exactly the same as eating a songbird for the way it sounds.


Enlightenment is: Absolute co-operation with the inevitable.

Last edited by sandwarrior; 22-09-2012 at 01:01 PM.
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