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Old 27-12-2016, 08:54 PM   #53
tom bombadil
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Join Date: Jul 2008
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Originally Posted by polyhedron View Post
I would say the biggest challenge in going off grid is forming bonds of trust.
Most people when they consider the off-grid option is how to do it either alone or with as few people as possible. In other words they want to take the kitchen sink of privacy with them, and at the same time gain access to large unpopulated open spaces.

This is where the whole off-grid philosophy collapses into the sea.

The other flaw in the philosophy is when people consider the off-grid option, they may read a bit about it, but at some stage they then plunge into the deep end of it all with the hope of learning to swim on site, so to speak. Most off-grid ventures fail miserably, because they haven't studied and practiced the fundamentals of what it is they are trying to set out to achieve.

Going off-grid is an ENOURMOUS undertaking and requires a hell of a lot of homework.
If you really want to go off-grid, and don't get me wrong, I think it's an incredibly good and wise idea, but if you really want to truly succeed where most people have failed or are hanging in there by their finger nails, you have got to do a LOT of homework, and ease yourself in by increments.

You should keep your regular job and house and car, assuming you are lucky enough to have those, and any savings you have got, and very slowly ease your way into it, and make sure you can ALWAYS retreat back to the sanctity of where you left off in civvy street.

Because once you make that final cut, you will no longer be in civvy street and that means all the benefits and advantages you paid your taxes into over the course of your life, which you inevitably take for granted, all that will be gone. Society won't owe you anything. Not the police, the courts, the fire brigade, the health system, nothing. You are out on your own.

Once you stop paying tax, that's it, they will ignore you. So you had better do your homework and check what you're getting into, because there is a whole other world out there you don't know.

In order to be successful, you need to do it in small stages, and at each stage your number one question should ALWAYS be, not sometimes but ALWAYS be, "Who do I trust? Who can I trust? Who can I get to trust?" Because if you're starting out on this venture you're going to need people like you never imagined, and you're going to have to know how to cooperate and get on with a lot of different people from all types of backgrounds.

The one thing you're going to have to say goodbye to are your rights, and realise there is no such thing as rights. That's just a comfortable illusion people have, but if you go off-grid, you won't be able to have that illusion. You are going to have to know how to work with people and people are going to have to know how to work with each other.

So if you want to be successful in going off-grid you need to do it in very small stages and you need to get to know as many people as you can and find out if you think you honestly have a chance down that road because a lot of people don't. A lot of people would not have a clue once things started to go wrong, and they will go wrong, so you need to have experience in dealing with things when they go wrong, because once you're out there, there is no safety net, unless you and your community bothered to sit down and ensure a series of plans for such eventualities.

The truth is, you are not going to get to be master of all skills. You need to know where your discipline ends and another starts. Ask yourselves this, what are your skills? What can you do? How will you be useful in such a society? What knowledge can you bring? Are you going to be an asset or a burden? Are you just looking for a cheap holiday, or are you aware that the apprenticing takes years of hard, hard work, like you would not believe. Because it will be a hell of a lot harder than studying for a university degree. A hell of a lot harder, and a lot longer too.

So, those are just some things to consider when looking at the possibilities of going off-grid.
This is my opinion here obviously, but I think I am speaking as a brit in my responses.

Your first paragraph is not a bad thing. I dont get it when you say privacy AND wide open unpopulated places are not compatable! I have found that if one wishes, one could find a neighbour sooner in the open places. Because those same spaces bring folk of the same ilk together! It takes a little longer to find out what you and your town-ey next door neighbour have in common because they might not be around all day, unlike folk doing what they have to do on their land.

The poster (sacredrealm) strikes me as someone that can make friends and trusts sooner than later.

So, for the next paragraph, not so much of a disaster at sea. In my view.

I would like to see the statistics on paragraph 3! If its just a gut feeling, I can dig that!
life, as a whole, can be failed at miserably by anyone without tuition. We all need dads to help us hit the nail, and mums to fight for. Plunging in the deep end is what we do after leaving home for the first time, standing up for ourselves in a fight or at work or with a woman (man too, girls)
The fundamentals are new to anyone. And it IS a bad move to jump head first into a hard place, but who am I to say dont? Advice is freely given, but it does not have to be accepted.

I did not do what I did without advice and crossed fingers.
Now I am 'here' in the nitty gritty, I am having hard days and soft.I am enjoying much too.

Without statistics to back your claim though, I think that most, by pure understanding of the way people succeed, will make it. And they do!

Paragraph 4, is so right except for the 'most fail' bit.

In 5 you suggest keeping your job etc...this might work for some. Not all. There are some that need to just let go of the 'role' they have now!
As for the house....nope. If its yours, you have assets. Sell it. If its rented, you are better of downsizing or living cheaper elsewhere. Notice I didn't suggest specifically where. As we are seeing here, some have many options or choices.

If one owned their home, they could sell it to buy the 'starter plot' or a smaller home close by along with a plot. etc etc etc.

If one fails and ends up in the gutter, they have not failed in life, just in that venture. Going back on grid is simple in the UK. At no point do you lose a pension or birth cert. or NI number etc unless one just does not use it. Even off grid you can have use of the NHS, though that might change if one needs a passport in the future, but so what! Get one!

Paragraph 6...nope. Not in the Uk, and I suspect not anywhere in the west. Going off grid is not going full hippy. It just isn't.

I will say though, on my plot I will have a large H for a medi copter and make sure my paths are fixed for fire and ambulances and docs. etc. My water storage will have a huge pump too to put out fires. Gravity fed and generator powered. WILL....its not ready yet.

So yes, in some ways one is responsible for their home in a way one might not have thought over. It happened in Lammas a few years ago. I talked to them in passing of fires etc. The day I left, that night someones home burned down. A caravan. In the middle of nowhere, it is not quick for a fire truck to get there. But to be truthful, in Wales, there are not many places that do have instant access to fire services, and its the construction that will save lives.

Not true in most case in the uk in paragraph 7.
One can earn, if they like, and not pay much in taxes. But some taxes are hard to get rid of!

There are earnings tax that goes along with any job. But by doing ones own taxes, they can live on the 'breadline' all of their lives. You are too small for them to bother much with.

In simple terms, one only admits to some, and not all , of their income. Simple.

You will still get a full pension and nhs etc.

It IS a different world, but not one 'you don't know' like its a bad thing.
We, here in this very thread, have been giving new laws and rights that were not known. Soon, all that are pertinent will manifest.

Paragraph 8. I think that trust of others, when one is on their own, IS IMPORTANT TOO! That paragraph is a good one for me. It looks ominous, but the jist is correct in my view.

Paragraph 9. Nope. One never loses their rights, unless they give them up, and one ALWAYS has their freedoms. Rights are an illusion, as you suggest, but we do still have many of them when one goes off grid.

For example. One has the freedom to build a barn on a 5 hectares site (12.5 acres) Notice is given. Never can they say no. However. If you are suckered into their double talk, you give up your freedom, it becomes a right, and as we know, he who gives the right can withhold the right.

Paragraph 10. There is no substitute for experience. But one has to sometimes fuck up to get it right. Step by step, rather than v.small stages.

Also, you sound a bit negative concerning communities! Yup, some can suck. Not all. In my experience, those with the same goal or beliefs will more than likely stay as a community.

Paragraph 11. Lastly. So many negatives in that paragraph fella! Years to get an apprenaship? No. You dont need to mast cutting flowers, herbs, trees etc. You just need to be proficient. You dont need to master chicken farming before you buy your first chick!

I didnt become a forester untill I planted my first tree!

Just my spin on you post. It seems very backward, and yesterday type thinking in my book.

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