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Old 13-01-2018, 06:28 PM   #40
mranderson
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Quote:
Originally Posted by st jimmy View Post
Why do people make claims about a book (the Quran) that they've never even read?
I have a copy and read it thoroughly and I also understand the process of abrogation.

Abrogation is the process of deciding which of the commands in the Quran are to be followed because there are contradictory commands.

This is due to the fact that while in Mecca to begin with , Mohammed was surrounded by different faiths including Christianity and Judaism and while there his teachings were more lenient.

After then going to Medina ( the start date of the Islamic calendar - the Islamic year 1 starts with his move to Medina ) his teachings become much more un forgiving.

So there are contradictory statements in the Quran and the scholars needed to work out which to follow because the Quran says it is immutable and a believer must follow the word of the Quran.

So the process of abrogation began in which scholars worked through deciding which commands over rule others and the way it was done was by taking any later command to over rule an earlier command if there was a contradiction.

By the process of abrogation is how we came to Sharia in it's many forms.

So for the record , and I previously put this in bold because it should not be overlooked , this is from https://islamqa.info/en/20327

al-Bukhaari, 6878; Muslim, 1676

Quote:
The ruling of execution because of a word that somebody utters is what the Muslim scholars call al-riddah (apostasy). What is apostasy and what constitutes apostasy? What is the ruling on the apostate (al-murtadd)?

1 – Riddah (apostasy) refers to when a Muslim becomes a disbeliever by saying a clear statement to that effect, or by uttering words which imply that (i.e., which imply kufr or disbelief), or he does something that implies that (i.e., an action which implies kufr or disbelief).

2 – What constitutes apostasy

The matters which constitute apostasy are divided into four categories:

(a) Apostasy in beliefs, such as associating others with Allaah, denying Him, or denying an attribute which is proven to be one of His attributes, or by affirming that Allaah has a son. Whoever believes that is an apostate and a disbeliever.

(b) Apostasy in words, such as insulting Allaah or the Messenger (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him).

(c) Apostasy in actions, such as throwing the Qur’an into a filthy place, because doing that shows disrespect towards the words of Allaah, so it is a sign that one does not believe. Other such actions include prostrating to an idol or to the sun or moon.

(d) Apostasy by omission, such as not doing any of the rituals of Islam, or turning away from following it altogether.

3 – What is the ruling on the apostate?

If a Muslim apostatizes and meets the conditions of apostasy – i.e., he is of sound mind, an adult and does that of his own free will – then his blood may be shed with impunity. He is to be executed by the Muslim ruler or by his deputy – such as the qaadi or judge, and he is not to not be washed (after death, in preparation for burial), the funeral prayer is not to be offered for him and he is not to be buried with the Muslims.

The evidence that the apostate is to be executed is the words of the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him): “Whoever changes his religion, execute him.” (Narrated by al-Bukhaari, 2794). What is meant by religion here is Islam (i.e., whoever changes from Islam to another religion).

The Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “It is not permissible to shed the blood of a Muslim who bears witness that there is no god except Allaah and that I am His Messenger, except in one of three cases: a soul for a soul (i.e., in the case of murder); a married man who commits adultery; and one who leaves his religion and splits form the jamaa’ah (main group of Muslims).” (Narrated by al-Bukhaari, 6878; Muslim, 1676)
There are also verses in the Quran which state those who say Allah has a partner , or a son, or a wife those people are disbelievers.

Christians are disbelievers in the Quran , because they will not accept the later revelations of the Quran.

The Quran thinks Jesus is a prophet , but they will not accept him as Son of God because to them , God can have no earthly son or partner.

Also Jimmy , how's it going for the Jews in Egypt these days ?

How's it going for the Jews in Saudi Arabia ? Or any other Islamic state for that matter ?

Me personally Jimmy , I think all three branches of Abraham are bearing rotten fruit and have taken us further from a connection to the creator than they have taken us nearer to it.

So I don't think any of them are right , and I will never bend at the knee to any of them.

I'm not a christian or a jew or a muslim , so I don't have to defend any of them or see any of them get special treatment.

If someone else wants to do that I understand , and if it's your faith then so be it , maybe you are right and you get a golden ticket to live with God.

But maybe I'm right and the whole thing is a system of social control introduced by a babylonian mystery school that left Ur which is determined to rule the world one way or another , even at the expense of billions of murdered souls.
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