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-   -   BASIC INCOME GUARANTEE - what's the snag? (https://forum.davidicke.com/showthread.php?t=320827)

polyhedron 26-03-2018 09:16 PM


Originally Posted by da2255 (Post 1063010570)
You'd rather have the stress of having to hold down an absolutely mind-numbing job rather than just have the money instead?

My experience of the workplace has been extremely negative, I've had to spend most of the day around people I found to be intensely unlikable, and do mind-numbing high-stress nonsense for low pay, even though I graduated from a Russel Group University.

The sooner the majority of work is automated the better as far as I'm concerned.

I didn’t say anything about the jobs being mind-numbing. Yes, the workplace as we know it today is an extremely negative and high stress. As you say, the people found in the work place are commonly and frequently intensly dislikeable.

But jobs don’t have to be horrible. There are useful jobs that need doing. It’s just that no one gets paid to do those, but paid they could be. There are many jobs we need people to do. Countless numbers of them.

As for automation, that’s a white elephant. Mass production is terrible. Things can still be produced in appropiate quantity without expoitation. And if things were designed to last...

And we need to forget about “hi tech” solutions for everything. Not everything needs to be computer controlled. Not everything has to be electronic in order for it to work. Not everything needs to be super small or super thin in order to be useful.

iamawaveofthesea 26-03-2018 11:25 PM

The snag with basic income is that it is going to be the carrot that the cabal use to make you completely dependent on the state

once you are eating from their hand you are their slave

once you are dependent on them and they are no longer dependent on your labour you are no longer required. The 5G SMART grid can then be used to kill you off quietly

leighcgilbert 30-03-2018 02:04 PM

Part 14
A pro-UBI member of Demos was DAVID WILD, on the advisory board of "Demos Quarterly" journal, in which he lauded a CITIZEN'S INCOME (July 18th 2014).

Demos co-founder Geoff Mulgan has given TED talks and trained as a Buddhist monk. He was Chief Executive of the innovation charity NESTA (initially a British Government QUANGO), of which a UBI fan is PETER MCCOLL, who headed NESTA's policy/research in Scotland and has been heavily involved in the political transformation of Scotland in the 21st century. Scotland was set to implement UBI trials in 2018.

The next influential member of the UBI fan club is the WEF (World Economic Forum) founder KLAUS SCHWAB, an ex-BILDERBERG steering committee member and involved in UN agencies. Schwab described UBI in 2017 as "basically plausible". A WEF attendee, ERICA KOCHI, supports UBI and was co-chair of the WEF's GLOBAL FUTURE COUNCIL ON HUMAN RIGHTS. Kochi co-founded UNICEF's Innovation Unit.

Another UBI 'groupie' is the 'rock-star of Europe's anti-austerity uprising' (according to "The Telegraph", Feb 2015): YANIS VAROUFAKIS, the former Greek Finance minister who claimed that capitalism is making itself obsolete, spurred on by AI. Ever since Varoufakis resigned as Greece's Finance Minister in 2015 he has shot to prominence with books and TV appearances. Part 15 below.
Part 15 below.

leighcgilbert 09-04-2018 02:32 PM

Part 15
Yanis Varoufakis is a 'centrist' or '3rd way' politician (i.e. left and right merger). He warned that capitalism would "eat Democracy" unless action is taken. He wanted – he said – a world that is simultaneously libertarian, Marxist, and Keynesian. He appeared on BBC1 in 2017 on its' political debate show "Question Time" (30th Nov 2017). He was a columnist for the aforementioned PROJECT SYNDICATE (Soros and Gates funded), as were 2 notables: the UBI fan and Nobel Prize Winner JOSEPH STIGLITZ ( WORLD BANK Chief Economist); and an ally of Varoufakis: the UN Secretary-General Adviser JEFFREY SACHS, the Director of the EARTH INSTITUTE.

Varoufakis has moved in high circles but rejected conspiracy theories, saying instead that all the people that he dealt with (e.g. the IMF Managing Director Christine Lagarde) were neither saints nor sinners, just well-meaning people struggling to deal with a fast-paced, complicated world. See his book "Adults In The Room". He denied the accusation that he was a stooge of George Soros, who had agreed with Yanis and his proposals on Greece. Yanis regarded critics of Soros as mostly anti-semitic, Right wingers.

Varoufakis spoke on UBI and other issues with the famous linguistic professor and Left leaning social commentator NOAM CHOMSKY, who advocated 'libertarian socialism' (more 3rd way thinking). Chomsky worked at MIT where he was funded by the US Military (Pentagon), though he maintains that they didn't affect his work. Chomsky joined an organisation co-founded by Varoufakis: DIEM 25 (DEMOCRACY IN EUROPE MOVEMENT 2025, intended to create a supposedly democratic European parliament. DIEM 25 advisers included:
Wikileaks founder JULIAN ASSANGE; JOHN MCDONNELL (Labour Party Shadow Chancellor and UBI supporter); British Green Party leader CAROLINE LUCAS (UBI fan); NAOMI KLEIN (social activist and pro- UBI); JAMES K. GALBRAITH (friend and ally of Yanis; American economist, son of renowned economist JOHN K. GALBRAITH). Part 16 below.
Part 16 below.

leighcgilbert 10-04-2018 03:02 PM

Part 16
Varoufakis and James Galbraith teamed up with the ex-Labour Party MP STUART HOLLAND to formulate a plan for resolving the Greek economic crisis. Varoufakis and Holland co-authored "The Modest Proposal" to fix the European Monetary Union's structural crisis. Holland served as an adviser to the EUROPEAN COMMISSION President JACQUES DELORS. Holland wanted a WORLD DEVELOPMENT ORGANISATION.

Varoufakis proposed the need for a new global financial system with a common currency managed by the IMF. He gave that currency a fictional name: the KOSMOS.

Varoufakis listed some of his friends/allies in his book "Adults In The Room", e.g. the ex-British Chancellor of the Exchequer NORMAN LAMONT (worked at N.M Rothschild bank) and the WORLD BANK Chief Economist LARRY SUMMERS who acted as a long time mentor to the FACEBOOK COO Sheryl Sandberg, initially at Harvard University, then the World Bank, then again in the Clinton government when Summers was Treasury Secretary.

Yanis Varoufakis was born in Greece but moved to Britain. His father was chairman of a major steel producer in Greece. Yanis Varoufakis became economic adviser to the Socialist leader of the Opposition in Greece: GEORGE PAPANDREOU, who would eventually become Prime Minister. Papandreou is a CLUB OF MADRID member, as is BILL CLINTON, MIKHAIL GORBACHEV (Ex-Russian leader), MARY ROBINSON (see above), ROMANO PRODI (ex-EUROPEAN COMMISSION President), ANTONIO GUTERRES (UN Secretary General).

Guterres and Papandreou were both President of SOCIALIST INTERNATIONAL, the worldwide association of political parties seeking democratic socialism. Guterres and Papandreou both belonged to the ECFR (EUROPEAN COUNCIL ON FOREIGN RELATIONS), founded with money from George Soros' OPEN SOCIETY FOUNDATIONS. The ECFR's founder MARK LEONARD wrote for PROJECT SYNDICATE. Part 17 below.
Part 17 below.

tamlinn 10-04-2018 05:20 PM


Originally Posted by alisa2 (Post 1063007347)
That's exactly right! All you have to do is look at all the degenerates on welfare where their only occupation is making babies.

What's the difference between an unemployed mother raising children with a man in the home and an unemployed woman raising children with a man outside the home? The woman with no man in the home no matter how dedicated a mother she is gets called a degenerate and the children are considered inferior.

Daycares are not a superior way to raise children and there are bad parents in all classes, the better off married ones just don't have a microscope on their lives. They can shuffle their children off to tutoring classes, counselling, rehabs and still put on a good appearance.

I live in a mixed neighbourhood and have worked in the schools.

alisa2 10-04-2018 11:31 PM


Originally Posted by tamlinn (Post 1063014756)
What's the difference between an unemployed mother raising children with a man in the home and an unemployed woman raising children with a man outside the home? The woman with no man in the home no matter how dedicated a mother she is gets called a degenerate and the children are considered inferior.

The only thing wrong with that is both are relying on government handouts to live. At one time I could barely make it on my own let alone if I had kids. Here in the state of Kansas minimum wage is still $7.50 an hour. Who can live on that by themselves let alone a family of 3 or 5? People don't THINK before the F !

Today it's all about economics. There are currently 47 million Americans relying on government handouts to live. It's just plain stupid to have children these days especially if you're someone without jobs skills- which I would guess comprises most people on welfare.

alisa2 11-04-2018 01:25 AM


the tealady 11-04-2018 01:26 AM

This filth has now been suggested by the leader of the Australian Greens.

leighcgilbert 16-04-2018 03:07 PM

Part 17
Yanis Faroufakis and Noam Chomsky both endorsed the pro-UBI book "No Is Not Enough" (2017) by the DIEM 25 adviser NAOMI KLEIN, a left leaning Green activist and anti-Trump. She was invited by the Catholic Vatican to a conference on climate change in 2015, all part of Pope Francis' pro-Climate Change stance.

Varoufakis has been a newspaper columnist for the British centre-left newspaper "The Guardian", in which he wrote in 2017 of his support for the future French President EMMANUEL MACRON, a centrist, 3rd way, politician who worked for a Rothschild bank (French branch). Varoufakis' book "Adults In The Room" received praise from his fellow "The Guardian" journalist PAUL MASON, yet another BIG/UBI advocate. Mason moved from the far left to the centre left. He wants 'radical social democracy'. Mason edited mainstream TV news programmes, e.g. Economics Editor at BBC2's "Newsnight" and at "Channel 4 News". His first live appearance on "Newsnight" was on 9/11. He supported Labour Leader Jeremy Corbyn.

Paul Mason endorsed a manifesto for a 'post-capitalist future': the pro-UBI book "Inventing The Future" (2015), which proposed a reduced working week and full automation of labour. Its' co-author NICK SRNICEK got a PhD from the LSE. Part 18 below.
Part 18 below.

leighcgilbert 23-04-2018 03:04 PM

Part 18
Now to America for some UBI love – the ROOSEVELT INSTITUTE, a 'liberal' Think Tank run by descendants of the American President FRANKLIN D. ROOSEVELT and ELEANOR ROOSEVELT. In 2017 the Institute published a report (August 2017) that said that UBI would boost the US economy. It would be paid for by raising taxes. The Roosevelt Institute's Chief Economist in 2017 was the Nobel Prize winner and former WORLD BANK Chief Economist JOSEPH STIGLITZ who served in the Clinton administration. Stiglitz aided the Scottish government in its' independence policies and advised the British Labour Party under Jeremy Corbyn and John McDonnell. Although broadly in favour of UBI, Stiglitz said in 2017 that it shouldn't be a Scottish priority.

The Roosevelt Institute's Chairman emeritus in 2017/2018 was CFR member WILLIAM VANDEN HEUVEL who served in the CIA predecessor, the OSS, as executive assistant to the OSS founder WILLIAM DONOVAN. Heuvel was an assistant to ROBERT KENNEDY (brother of JFK and US Attorney General). Heuvel was ex-chairman of the UN ASSOCIATION OF THE USA (promotes US-UN links). The UN employed Eleanor Roosevelt as its inaugural chairman of it's COMMISSION ON HUMAN RIGHTS. Heuvel's daughter KATRINA also belonged to the Roosevelt Institute (board member) and was editor/publisher/part-owner of THE NATION, a 'progressive' current affairs magazine.

Other Roosevelt Institute board members:
KATE BRANDT – President Obama's and the US Government's first Chief Sustainability Officer. At GOOGLE she led its' sustainability policies worldwide. At Cambridge University she was a GATES SCHOLAR (scheme set up by Bill and Melinda Gates).

The Roosevelt Institute's Director of its' PROJECT ON GLOBAL FINANCE - ROBERT JOHNSON - has worked elsewhere with Joseph Stiglitz and George Soros. Part 19 below.
Part 19 below.

hokuspokus 24-04-2018 07:06 AM

Basic income guarantee is a "race to the bottom " . Just like minimum wage.
Employers are only legally obliged to pay the minimum . And that is what most do.
So don't bother looking for another job to increase your wage . Because you can't.

leighcgilbert 25-04-2018 01:52 PM

Part 19
The Roosevelt Institute's Director of its' PROJECT ON GLOBAL FINANCE - ROBERT JOHNSON - has worked elsewhere with Joseph Stiglitz and George Soros. Robert Johnson, under the Chairmanship of Joseph Stiglitz, served on the United Nations Commission of Experts on International Monetary Reform. Johnson was a Managing Director at SOROS FUND MANAGEMENT. Johnson served as President of the Soros co-founded think tank, the INET (INSTITUTE FOR NEW ECONOMIC THINKING), of which Board members included the aforementioned MINOUCHE SHAFIK (World Bank, IMF, LSE) and the Board's chairman ADAIR TURNER, ex-chair of the UK Financial Services Authority and Director General of the CBI (CONFEDERATION OF BRITISH INDUSTRY). Also at INET was the aforementioned LARRY SUMMERS (World Bank) as a Project leader.

On INET's GLOBAL PARTNERS COUNCIL was Sir CLIVE COWDERY, the majority owner of the British centre left current affairs magazine PROSPECT, founded by a DEMOS head (Director) DAVID GOODHART. Cowdery, a very rich insurance businessman, owned PROSPECT through his RESOLUTION group of organisations that employed as Directors the following:
1)ADAIR TURNER (INET chairman).
2)GAVIN KELLY – former senior adviser to the British PM GORDON BROWN (Labour Party); CEO of Cowdery's RESOLUTION TRUST and RESOLUTION FOUNDATION.
3)ANDREW ADONIS (Baron Adonis) – regular article writer for PROSPECT; Director of PM Tony Blair's Policy Unit; in 2017 was Chairman of the NATIONAL INFRASTRUCTURE COMMISSION.

Cowdery's RESOLUTION FOUNDATION is a non-profit think tank that supposedly aims to improve the standard of living for low- and middle-income families. Part 20 below.
Part 20 below.

elshaper 10-05-2018 03:30 PM

From today's headlines.
Concerns. :(

Universal credit rules risk 'crushing' self-employed and startups


alisa2 10-05-2018 06:21 PM

The problem starts with the centralization of money. Here in the U.S. it started at Art. 8 sec. 5 of the U.S. Constitution where the Federal Government retained the exclusive right to coin money, to wit:

"To coin Money, regulate the Value thereof, and of foreign Coin, and fix the Standard of Weights and Measures";

Why is it the Federal government is the only entity allowed to coin money? That power/right was taken from the people and given to the Feds by our rich Founders like James Madison so that they (the rich) can maintain their wealth. That's where the problem begins and ends; government controlling the money supply.

Here's what Christopher Langan had to say about that:

35:00 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=piE4zzZOjZc&t=2119s

This degree of centralization of the money supply allows them to take the standardized utility that money should be and actually usurp it and displace it and insert their own utility instead. I'd love to talk to some of these guys and have them tell me, no, you know, basically we're not just inserting our own utility in place of the general welfare. We really care about everybody and it's only a temporary appearance and here's where its all leading, and here's where we're all going to end up, and it's going to be some kind of fantastic utopia. I'd love to have them tell me that, but they're not. They're really very secretive about it. They're highly competitive and they don't like to share their information or anything about where they're going. But this idea that money is a standardized utility in a sense makes it the property of all mankind, because we all participate in that utility. You can't let any tiny handful of people control it unless they can establish right up front, by telling the truth to everybody, that they have the knowledge really to arbit what utility is and what is useful to the human race and where the human race should be going. So yes, to that extent we're going to be the change. It's going to have to be a relatively big change and I think that people are wising up to this situation and that's where we're headed.”

leighcgilbert 11-05-2018 02:17 PM

Part 20
The Resolution Foundation's proposal for a kind of dilute UBI made the headlines in Britain in 2018, and was the front page lead story of "The Guardian" newspaper (May 8th 2018). Dubbed the CITIZEN'S INHERITANCE, everyone would get £10,000 on their 25th birthday, but only to be spent on education or housing or starting a business or on a pension. The proposal was amongst a series of recommendations of a commission chaired by the Resolution Foundation's executive chairman DAVID WILLETTS, an ex-Conservative Party Minister and ex-Director of Studies at the influential 'right wing' think tank, the CPS (CENTRE FOR POLICY STUDIES). Also on the Commission was the CBI Director General CAROLYN FAIRBAIRN; the LEGAL & GENERAL Group Chief Executive NIGEL WILSON; the TRADES UNION CONGRESS General Secretary FRANCES O'GRADY. The £10000 would be financed by a new type of inheritance tax.

A similar £10,000 scheme was proposed in 2018 by the centre left British think tank IPPR, who suggested a CITIZEN'S WEALTH FUND to administer a UNIVERSAL MINIMUM INHERITANCE of £10,000 to be given at the age of 25, and paid for by tax reforms and by a sell off of government assets. It could have been funded by a tax on North Sea Oil, said IPPR, but that was too late now, though an oil tax did finance Norway's SOVEREIGN WEALTH FUND. IPPR's recommendation got the thumbs up from British comedienne ELLIE TAYLOR on the BBC Radio 4 satirical show "The Now Show" (April 6th 2018). Taylor was a typical centre left, feminist, anti-Trump, anti-Brexit, comedian that has been a staple on British mainstream TV/Radio.

IPPR Trustees in 2018 included Andrew Adonis (see above); CHRIS POWELL (NESTA chairman); DAVID PITT-WATSON (chairman of the UN ENVIRONMENTAL PROGRAMME's Finance Initiative).

IPPR's Policy Advisory Council in 2018 included Frances O'Grady (see above) and JEREMY HARDIE (W.H.SMITH chairman; LSE researcher; ROYAL ECONOMIC SOCIETY Vice President). Part 21 below.
Part 21 below.

elshaper 11-05-2018 03:26 PM

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alisa2 12-05-2018 04:58 PM

by da2255

You'd rather have the stress of having to hold down an absolutely mind-numbing job rather than just have the money instead?

My experience of the workplace has been extremely negative, I've had to spend most of the day around people I found to be intensely unlikable, and do mind-numbing high-stress nonsense for low pay, even though I graduated from a Russel Group University.

The sooner the majority of work is automated the better as far as I'm concerned.

The problem (and solution) is the government's monopoly on money. You're forced to work a job you wouldn't otherwise do if you didn't have to have a job. I can't count the number of times I'd like to say stick it, I'm outa here, but I don't because the government controls my life via money. Everywhere you go you work for the government because the money is the same everywhere you go. It's a trap and would make anyone insane- that's why the world is the way it is- full of negatives and crazies. I'm not blaming them- the system has basically shaped the way they think and act. All jobs are government jobs. You don't really have a choice.

breaker 12-05-2018 07:06 PM


Originally Posted by alisa2 (Post 1063005723)
The only reason I can think why government allows the banks to print its money is because the central bank doesn't put restrictions on how much government can borrow and spend. IOWS it's all about GREED. It's the politicians who benefit the most from it.

Well if you’re in a position to line your own pockets wouldn’t you invent tax laws that benefit yourself and your mates.

The super rich dodge tax at an unbelievable amount year in year out.

If unemployed jo bloggs does a day of casual work for £50 and gets shopped, he’s looking at a criminal conviction.


alisa2 13-05-2018 05:03 PM


Originally Posted by breaker (Post 1063020811)
Well if you’re in a position to line your own pockets wouldn’t you invent tax laws that benefit yourself and your mates.

No, because freedom from the tax laws that is what I'm about. Maybe if I was born into a wealthy family I would care about tax laws that benefit myself and my mates, but I care more about truth and natural laws than fiction.

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