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-   -   I think I may be starting to agree with TPTB. (https://forum.davidicke.com/showthread.php?t=307517)

blythe 10-05-2016 12:53 PM

I think I may be starting to agree with TPTB.
 
And I'm not sure if it's a good thing or a bad thing.

I haven't posted here in a while, but I regularly come back with posts about my progress in my journey for knowledge. Hopefully some of you find it at least entertaining/interesting.

This could also play into how our consciousness creates reality, if you believe in that stuff.

A lot of people say they have traveled the world and seen the beauty of humanity, I feel like I've seen the opposite. When I was younger I thought everyone was like the people in my small suburban town in midwestern USA, overall friendly and laid back. As I've grown up and have done countless hours of research nearly every day for 10 years, I've seen the terrible side of humanity.

I now believe that without strict control we would've wiped ourselves out long ago. You may say "without the TPTB we wouldn't have the dangerous weapons we now have", but I strongly disagree. Humans are animals, a lot of people don't want to think of it this way, but we're just like a pack of animals where there are several competing animals for the alpha spot. We will do whatever it takes to be "better" than our fellow humans, and that includes creating the biggest and baddest weapons so that we cannot be contested.

Looking back through all that I have learned, it seemed that TPTB were pure evil, but I sincerely believe they have our best interests in mind. Do some of them abuse their power? Of course, but I'm sure that is dealt with internally.

There's something going on in this world that I can't quite put my finger on, but my theory is we're being guided as a whole. All the mindless dribble that the masses are fed makes them complete morons, which is actually a good thing. Humans are at the top of the food chain, our brains make it so we can be devastatingly destructive, so dumbing people down and making them docile makes it so there is less of a chance of people obliterating eachother.

What would people think about if it weren't for the TV/Movies/Sports etc...? I think we'd be a lot like Brazil, where even walking down the street is risking your life. In "first world countries" humans are told how to live by the TV/Movies/Religion/Music, so they suppress their natural instincts in favor of a more docile social life.

I think a lot of people in the "spiritual movement" (not sure what else to call it) believe without TPTB we'd all live in nature and hold hands while singing kumbaya. It's illogical to believe that humans could live in complete harmony without manipulation. In the animal world, the strong are on the top of the food chain, you don't get there by being docile and living together in peace, it's not in our DNA to be this way, we must be forced/taught to be this way.

During my knowledge journey I've asked many many people what they think a better system would be, most just say "get rid of the system", but then what? You don't want to see what the world would be like with no laws/rules, I promise you. Like I said before, humans are very dangerous and volatile.

In closing, I know a lot of you will disagree with me, I know I would have 3-4 years ago. This reality is harsh, but there's a lot to be learned about it, and I believe that is what the meaning of life is, to learn, not necessarily to be happy sitting on the beach sipping cocktails all day every day.

white light 10-05-2016 12:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by blythe (Post 1062727246)
And I'm not sure if it's a good thing or a bad thing.

I haven't posted here in a while, but I regularly come back with posts about my progress in my journey for knowledge. Hopefully some of you find it at least entertaining/interesting.

This could also play into how our consciousness creates reality, if you believe in that stuff.

A lot of people say they have traveled the world and seen the beauty of humanity, I feel like I've seen the opposite. When I was younger I thought everyone was like the people in my small suburban town in midwestern USA, overall friendly and laid back. As I've grown up and have done countless hours of research nearly every day for 10 years, I've seen the terrible side of humanity.

I now believe that without strict control we would've wiped ourselves out long ago. You may say "without the TPTB we wouldn't have the dangerous weapons we now have", but I strongly disagree. Humans are animals, a lot of people don't want to think of it this way, but we're just like a pack of animals where there are several competing animals for the alpha spot. We will do whatever it takes to be "better" than our fellow humans, and that includes creating the biggest and baddest weapons so that we cannot be contested.

Looking back through all that I have learned, it seemed that TPTB were pure evil, but I sincerely believe they have our best interests in mind. Do some of them abuse their power? Of course, but I'm sure that is dealt with internally.

There's something going on in this world that I can't quite put my finger on, but my theory is we're being guided as a whole. All the mindless dribble that the masses are fed makes them complete morons, which is actually a good thing. Humans are at the top of the food chain, our brains make it so we can be devastatingly destructive, so dumbing people down and making them docile makes it so there is less of a chance of people obliterating eachother.

What would people think about if it weren't for the TV/Movies/Sports etc...? I think we'd be a lot like Brazil, where even walking down the street is risking your life. In "first world countries" humans are told how to live by the TV/Movies/Religion/Music, so they suppress their natural instincts in favor of a more docile social life.

I think a lot of people in the "spiritual movement" (not sure what else to call it) believe without TPTB we'd all live in nature and hold hands while singing kumbaya. It's illogical to believe that humans could live in complete harmony without manipulation. In the animal world, the strong are on the top of the food chain, you don't get there by being docile and living together in peace, it's not in our DNA to be this way, we must be forced/taught to be this way.

During my knowledge journey I've asked many many people what they think a better system would be, most just say "get rid of the system", but then what? You don't want to see what the world would be like with no laws/rules, I promise you. Like I said before, humans are very dangerous and volatile.

In closing, I know a lot of you will disagree with me, I know I would have 3-4 years ago. This reality is harsh, but there's a lot to be learned about it, and I believe that is what the meaning of life is, to learn, not necessarily to be happy sitting on the beach sipping cocktails all day every day.

So, human beings are animals competing for a spot at the top of the food chain, and the ptb at the top of the food chain are benevolent beings maintaining the system for our mutual benefit. Doesn't quite compute ??????????

kizzie 10-05-2016 01:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by white light (Post 1062727247)
So, human beings are animals competing for a spot at the top of the food chain, and the ptb at the top of the food chain are benevolent beings maintaining the system for our mutual benefit. Doesn't quite compute ??????????

I was halfway through a reply and thought "why waste keyboard ink"

the more people I meet the more I know most humans are lovely even if their circumstances are horrible. :Luv Heart:

white light 10-05-2016 01:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kizzie (Post 1062727252)
I was halfway through a reply and thought "why waste keyboard ink"

the more people I meet the more I know most humans are lovely even if their circumstances are horrible. :Luv Heart:

Yeah, I agree.

Whatever & however the system was set up it's not really beneficial for everyone. It could be seen in the way the op expresses it, but that's only half the story. Material wealth stays in the hands of those that control the money system.

.

cosmic tramp 10-05-2016 01:24 PM

Very interesting post that and I do (with deep reservations) acknowledge that side of the argument myself and I think you're right to post it...no as you suggest I don't think we'd all be dancing about hand in hand singing Kumbaya (nor would I wish to), still less so without TPTB basic ingredients ( back to the Romans basics again (TPTB of the time) things like pavements, roads , buildings, shops even up to and including indirectly energy, plumbing and lavatory systems, even the local fish and chip shop which operates on the same basic principles as the most sinister profit making multinational. Even David Icke books arrive courtesy of a profit making publishing house and printers. This very net system and site you are on now is facilitated by TPTB. Sorry, but it is. Without it you would not even have heard of David Icke.

I've no intention of living in a tree house in the middle of the Russian wilderness. I doubt at this age, either my body, mind or soul would benefit.

Regarding your animals reference it reminded me of a David Attenborough nature programme where it does occasionally happen on some islands that certain species are very docile owing to lack of predators. Which makes you think lack of docility in the animal kingdom up to and including Homo Sapiens on this site occurs owing to an awareness of a high prevalence of predators in whichever form (or forum).

The TPTB "system" is certainly being exposed for what it is more than it ever was - and certainly needs reforming in many ways, yet, as you say, to what alternative ? The majority of human beings I've met in life are not to be trusted without some 'system' in place. On the whole I'm not a believer in "good will triumph" by default from instinctively altruistic human beings - because a lot of people simply aren't like that, far from it. Though I am often pleasantly surprised. I know the naysayers will attribute that to TPTB social conditioning which could be reversed, but I'm not convinced. We may be long term evolving towards that point but not in our lifetimes.

cosmic tramp 10-05-2016 01:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by white light (Post 1062727255)

Whatever & however the system was set up it's not really beneficial for everyone. It could be seen in the way the op expresses it, but that's only half the story. Material wealth stays in the hands of those that control the money system.

.

...yet I also emphatically agree with the above and in one sense so what ? Fast cars, yachts and beach parties simply don't appeal to me anyway.

cont 10-05-2016 01:41 PM

Quote:

There's something going on in this world that I can't quite put my finger on, but my theory is we're being guided as a whole. All the mindless dribble that the masses are fed makes them complete morons, which is actually a good thing. Humans are at the top of the food chain, our brains make it so we can be devastatingly destructive, so dumbing people down and making them docile makes it so there is less of a chance of people obliterating eachother.
your conception of humanity is completely flawed. you are working from the principle that humans are essentially selfish and will only fight each other over scarce resources.

wrong.

humans are cooperative and we have built communities like large nations numbering millions of strangers because we are able to love each other and share. how else could they have come about?

we need to feed such good people honesty and love, so that our development continues to progress, not complete shit so that we go back to the stone age.

back to the philosophical drawing board you go.

blythe 10-05-2016 02:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cont (Post 1062727279)
your conception of humanity is completely flawed. you are working from the principle that humans are essentially selfish and will only fight each other over scarce resources.

wrong.

humans are cooperative and we have built communities like large nations numbering millions of strangers because we are able to love each other and share. how else could they have come about?

we need to feed such good people honesty and love, so that our development continues to progress, not complete shit so that we go back to the stone age.

back to the philosophical drawing board you go.

This is almost the exact post I would've made 4-6 years ago in response to my topic.

The want/need to be in power is fueled by our survival instincts, if nothing can defeat us, we are essentially invincible, or at least we've eliminated most possibilities that could mean our destruction.

I believe this very forum is also, albeit on the other end of the spectrum, an exercise of our survival instincts, because we feel powerless due to TPTB seemingly wanting us dead at every turn.

I've dedicated my life to researching, this isn't some idea that I came up with overnight. I research facts over feelings, and while it might make me feel all good inside to say we should "spread light and love!", it's illogical to believe we can live in this reality based on that. I have issued the challenge of finding an alternative way to live, where our infrastructure could be maintained and needs fulfilled outside of our current system, but people seem to think "light and love" will provide everything through magic without being realistic. I am not religious, nor am I overly spiritual (I used to be...), if someone can come up with how "light and love" will "fix"(assuming it's broken) the system/world, I'd be more than glad to hear it.

I respect your guys's opinions, even if it's douchey one-liners saying "why waste keyboard ink" (funny how "spiritual" people are quick to become aggressive). I appreciate all discussion.

grandmasterp 10-05-2016 02:23 PM

"All the mindless dribble that the masses are fed makes them complete morons, which is actually a good thing."

That's maybe a bit of a generalisation.
Ever heard of 'the wisdom of crowds'?
Might be worth looking up.
People are OK for the most part and they are possibly quite a lot smarter than you give them credit for.
Being content isn't an illusion to the contented person.
Happiness neither.
:)

kizzie 10-05-2016 02:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by blythe (Post 1062727289)
This is almost the exact post I would've made 4-6 years ago in response to my topic.

The want/need to be in power is fueled by our survival instincts, if nothing can defeat us, we are essentially invincible, or at least we've eliminated most possibilities that could mean our destruction.

I believe this very forum is also, albeit on the other end of the spectrum, an exercise of our survival instincts, because we feel powerless due to TPTB seemingly wanting us dead at every turn.

I've dedicated my life to researching, this isn't some idea that I came up with overnight. I research facts over feelings, and while it might make me feel all good inside to say we should "spread light and love!", it's illogical to believe we can live in this reality based on that. I have issued the challenge of finding an alternative way to live, where our infrastructure could be maintained and needs fulfilled outside of our current system, but people seem to think "light and love" will provide everything through magic without being realistic. I am not religious, nor am I overly spiritual (I used to be...), if someone can come up with how "light and love" will "fix"(assuming it's broken) the system/world, I'd be more than glad to hear it.

I respect your guys's opinions, even if it's douchey one-liners saying "why waste keyboard ink" (funny how "spiritual" people are quick to become aggressive). I appreciate all discussion.

It wasn't aggressive at all. just a joke .. Funny how you see aggression where there isnt any, isnt it? Maybe that is what the problem is. People really do see what they want to see.

I get up in the morning and go to my groups read about how we all have it wrong and people are nasty and deserve everything that happens to them
David is out to rob us blind and he steals other people's ideas, him and his cult are trying to trick the world .. It really gets boring hearing how horrible people are and how we are kidding ourselfs that we can live without tptb ..

That imo is a trick put out by tptb to make us fearful about being in a world without them to keep us safe.

amberleaf 10-05-2016 02:42 PM

Certainly an interesting topic. I have thought a little on a similar strain before and came to the conclusion that human beings simply are not greedy enough.

white light 10-05-2016 02:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by amberleaf (Post 1062727314)
Certainly an interesting topic. I have thought a little on a similar strain before and came to the conclusion that human beings simply are not greedy enough.

That’s right. I don’t hate the rich, I hate the poor. If everyone were rich there would be no hate of that sort, if everyone were poor there’d still be hate of that sort. So it’s the poor I hate. I hate to see them poor. It sets up negative emotions. But the poor are only poor because of the rich.

freshpot 10-05-2016 02:47 PM

Who ever and what ever the TPTB is or are, there will always be some one, gang, community, organisation, grouping, cult, bunch, gathering, ready to step in at a moments notice and become the new and improved PTB.
Your bestess interests at heart n all that.
Look around, they are all champing at the bit to tell you their truth.

decode reality 10-05-2016 03:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by freshpot (Post 1062727317)
Who ever and what ever the TPTB is or are, there will always be some one, gang, community, organisation, grouping, cult, bunch, gathering, ready to step in at a moments notice and become the new and improved PTB.
Your bestess interests at heart n all that.
Look around, they are all champing at the bit to tell you their truth.

Reminds me of how after the Iraq invasion in 2003, the fundamentalist groups stepped in and it became even more dangerous, especially for women.

cont 10-05-2016 03:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by blythe (Post 1062727289)
This is almost the exact post I would've made 4-6 years ago in response to my topic.

The want/need to be in power is fueled by our survival instincts, if nothing can defeat us, we are essentially invincible, or at least we've eliminated most possibilities that could mean our destruction.

I believe this very forum is also, albeit on the other end of the spectrum, an exercise of our survival instincts, because we feel powerless due to TPTB seemingly wanting us dead at every turn.

I've dedicated my life to researching, this isn't some idea that I came up with overnight. I research facts over feelings, and while it might make me feel all good inside to say we should "spread light and love!", it's illogical to believe we can live in this reality based on that. I have issued the challenge of finding an alternative way to live, where our infrastructure could be maintained and needs fulfilled outside of our current system, but people seem to think "light and love" will provide everything through magic without being realistic. I am not religious, nor am I overly spiritual (I used to be...), if someone can come up with how "light and love" will "fix"(assuming it's broken) the system/world, I'd be more than glad to hear it.

I respect your guys's opinions, even if it's douchey one-liners saying "why waste keyboard ink" (funny how "spiritual" people are quick to become aggressive). I appreciate all discussion.


the mythical view of humanity as self-interested maximisers has been around for a long time and is the basis of a widely-practiced and flawed economic model, which includes proponents for Ayn Rand.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homo_economicus

Read this:

http://evonomics.com/what-happens-wh...onomic-theory/

Quote:

Economists alternately find alarming and amusing a large body of results from experimental studies showing that people don’t behave according to the tenets of rational choice theory. We are far more cooperative and willing to trust than is predicted by the theory, and we retaliate vehemently when others behave selfishly. In fact, we are willing to pay a penalty for an opportunity to punish people who appear to be breaking implicit rules of fairness in economic transactions.

decode reality 10-05-2016 03:19 PM

Then again, I remember back in November 2012 when there was a report of no violent crime taking place in New York on one particular day. That shows what's possible.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worl...ent-crime.html

kizzie 10-05-2016 03:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by decode reality (Post 1062727329)
Reminds me of how after the Iraq invasion in 2003, the fundamentalist groups stepped in and it became even more dangerous, especially for women.

Stepped in or put there by their bosses. :lol:

There are many in the world who are born leaders that also have integrity.

decode reality 10-05-2016 04:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kizzie (Post 1062727335)
Stepped in or put there by their bosses. :lol:

There are many in the world who are born leaders that also have integrity.

Either way, it only takes a few in positions of authority with enough 'charisma' to get the majority to follow them. I know there are lots of good people but take away the fear of legal reprisal and all hell usually breaks loose. In riot situations where people have gone on looting rampages, often among the looters are people with jobs, families, sometimes even doing degrees - whom you'd think would know better. Many people would gladly take the freedom bit, but not the responsibility. This is where society is - in 'Animal Farm mode', 'ptb' or not.

mkpetrov 10-05-2016 05:01 PM

Well if we are that bad, than what's wrong with us wiping ourselves out? And what's good about group of people trying to preserve all that evil and madness? Besides, we are wiping ourselves out, slowly, and exactly as a result of their actions. Capitalism and corporations are destroying our planes and sooner or later we won't be able to survive on it.

iamawaveofthesea 10-05-2016 05:11 PM

The psycho-analyst Carl jung interviewed thousands of people in his career which spanned many decades. Through these interviews he was able to discearn patterns in human behaviour.

For example he noticed that some people were energised by being around other people. He called these people 'extroverts'. However he also found that other people were energised by being alone and needed to recharge after being around other people; he called these people 'introverts'.

This then split people into a dichotomy of introverts or extroverts. These operated on a sliding scale so people were these things to varying degrees for example one person might be very introverted and another person might only be a little introverted.

He then outlined a few other dichotomies. he called all these 'cognitive functions' and discearned roughly 16 personality types. Everyone used all the functions but people had preferences and those preferences defined their personality type.

Different personality types are motivated by different things for example some are morally driven and some are driven by a desire to be the boss.

So all people are different and the problem comes in that some people expect everyone to be the same or behave the same. If you are trying to conceive of your ideal society you will need to take into account the fact that not everyone will agree with your vision for society.

A film called 'divergent' came out a few years back where society was split into 5 groups who all had different jobs eg farming, police, government, science etc. Each citizen upon reaching a certain age was then put into the group that most suited their personality type. This is an oversimplification of personality type theory but there is some truth to these categorisations.

The point i'm trying to make is that people all see the world through a different lens

Then on top of personality types people have layers of societal programming eg religious, cultural, nationality etc which can then also colour how they see the world and other people

So you can think of people as like sliding scales and you can think of society as a sliding scale for example on one end of the scale you could have people who only ever think about other people and at the other end of the scale you could have people who only ever think about themselves. Those different extremes would no doubt have different visions of what their ideal society would look like.

Equally if you consider society itself you can have at one end of the scale an 'authoritarian' society where people are ruled autocratically by a single dictator and at the other end of the scale you could have a society where there is no authority and everyone is equal ie a 'libertarian' society

In a society that believes in taxing people you can see tax as a sliding scale too. So you could have a society where no one is taxed or you could have a society where everyone is taxed and then you can also have different sections of society being taxed to different degrees. So one change we have seen in the last fifty years is that the rich have been given more and more tax breaks and the pension money the rest of society has put into the pot has been used to finance that so that now the rest of society will have to work to older ages before they receive any pension if at all.

A balanced society would have no one in poverty and a large middle class, but in western society we now have growing poverty levels and a shrinking middle class whilst the super rich hold an increasing portion of the wealth

The options usually presented to the public by the corporate media is between authoritarian-right politics or authoritarian-left politics which both include the rich being protected by a powerful state. Some mention is made of libertarian-right politics but the corporate media never discusses the possiblity of a libertarian-left society

So if you are considering possible alternative societies one option might be to look into libertarian-socialism/anarchist-communism and a 'gift economy'

But a non-coercive society where people are free to do what they want to do as long as they harm no others will not appeal to all personality types because some personality types want to have power over others so their ideal society will be a coercive hierarchy, authoritarian society where they can be the boss and call the shots

This then is the constant tug and pull over who holds the power. if we hand the power of decision making over to others we shouldn't then be suprised if they act in their own interests! Perhaps a healthier balance would be achieved if more people had more democratic say.

At the moment we live in a coercive, authoritarian system which seeks to bend people to that model of behaviour and thinking, which is one of competition between the general populace but under the control of the ptb. This then arguably encourages the worst side in human nature by making survival depend on competition instead of cooperation (divide and rule)


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