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-   -   Ukip's success is no false dawn (https://forum.davidicke.com/showthread.php?t=274653)

grannie27 23-05-2014 11:28 AM

Ukip's success is no false dawn
 
Over the past week or so – in the wake of Nigel Farage's supposedly disastrous LBC interview and as politicians and pundits queued up to accuse his party of being racist – something interesting began to emerge. It was almost as unpleasant as some of the views of the Ukip leader and the out-there candidates who were crash-landing in the news – a collective outbreak of sneering, which started to transcend the party itself and blur into a generalised mockery of anyone minded to support it. You could see it most clearly in the rash of satirical(ish) #WhyImVotingUkip tweets that are piling up even now (eg "Because our true British maypoles are set to be completely replaced by foreign gay Poles within 5 years" or "Because I'm uneducated,uncultured, white and old") and it's not pretty: an apparent belief that to vote UKIP is to be an idiot of some description, either bigoted or duped, and worthy of little more than contempt.

If you remain of that opinion, you should stop reading and go somewhere else. As the local election results come in and Ukip's numbers continue to look remarkable, the rest of us should maybe pause for thought and realise that something rather sobering is afoot, as happened in the 2012 county council elections, only more so. If a party is averaging 47% of the vote in a Labour stronghold such as Rotherham, toppling Tories from their perches in crucial Conservative territory and apparently heading towards first place in the European contest, something important is obviously afoot. Moreover, if people are supporting Ukip in such large numbers – even after the media's massed guns have been rattling at it for weeks – it is probably time to drop all the sneering and think about why.

So far, neither side of politics has even the beginnings of an adequate response. Listening to senior Conservatives this morning (Michael Gove on BBC Breakfast was a good example), you would think they simply need to further turn the screw on welfare and immigration and everything will be OK. Equally, when the left pipes up about Ukip voters' worries being reducible to either the "cost of living crisis" or a tangle of concerns around job markets and public services, they get nowhere near the whole story.

The truth is that the Ukip surge is built around a multitude of factors that wrong-foot both left and right. And on my side of politics, the most difficult stuff to process is about things from which the left tends to avert its eyes: notions of identity and belonging, anxiety about accelerated change and the fact that that leftie hooray-word "community" can actually have chewy connotations. Crudely put, when you meet a Labour-Ukip switcher who expresses worries about immigration, you can't simply reduce what they say to falling wages and the lack of social housing.

Immigration and people's responses to it are complex beyond words: they test just about every article of faith across the political spectrum.

I am writing this piece in Great Yarmouth, where the borough council count has yet to start, but a few hours spent talking to people outside polling stations underlined all those themes, and more. What was most telling, though, was the fact that so many people were engaged with what was happening and under precious few illusions. Given that Ukip is a non-story in London, the metropolitan media will presumably continue to misunderstand it and patronise its voters, but one misapprehension needs to be corrected, and fast: Ukip voters do not form some blind personality cult and neither are they unaware of the often unpleasant views of the party's people. Mention Farage and you hear things such as, "I don't trust him either". Yet again, "complicated" doesn't even begin to describe it.

This is not some bolt from the blue. The two – no, three – party system is in deep crisis. It looks like there is no way back to the world where either Labour or the Tories compete to break through the magic 40% barrier and all is largely well. The Liberal Democrats look to have had it. Meanwhile, Scotland is threatening to pull away from the UK and the result of next year's general election, let alone what will happen in its aftermath, is anyone's guess.

In my hotel room – at a ring-road Travelodge, in case anyone was wondering – a succession of Westminster faces are blathering on the television and I have just received a text message from an activist friend in response to one I sent which read, "I love the smell of toast in the morning". He wrote: "We can all smell the coffee. Ed, Cameron et al refuse to act because it's all about them. How long can it last?"

http://www.theguardian.com/commentis...rt-of-comments

truthspoon 23-05-2014 11:39 AM

I can't believe all those idiots voted labour.

If anyone is in any doubt as to why the human race is getting so badly fucked just think of all those gormless bastards who actually voted for any of the three political parties.


People can either vote for the ongoing agenda which is bound to result in either world war 3 somewhere down the line, ownership and impoverishment by the EU or mass authoritarianism.

Or you could vote UKIP and scupper all that bullshit.

strummer101 23-05-2014 09:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by edelweiss pirate (Post 1062105576)
I can't believe all those idiots voted labour.

If anyone is in any doubt as to why the human race is getting so badly fucked just think of all those gormless bastards who actually voted for any of the three political parties.


People can either vote for the ongoing agenda which is bound to result in either world war 3 somewhere down the line, ownership and impoverishment by the EU or mass authoritarianism.

Or you could vote UKIP and scupper all that bullshit.

?? Son of a stock broker, public schoolboy, City trader, Tory party member, free marketeer, 'laissez-faire', privatise the NHS......this man is the embodiment of 'the elite'.

grannie27 23-05-2014 09:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by strummer101 (Post 1062106188)
?? Son of a stock broker, public schoolboy, City trader, Tory party member, free marketeer, 'laissez-faire', privatise the NHS......this man is the embodiment of 'the elite'.

Quote:

privatise the NHS.
:confused: why do you make this shit up ???

Quote:

UKIP Head of policy Tim Aker last night warned voters not to believe Labour’s misinformation and lies about the party.

Mr Aker confirmed UKIP’s commitment to the NHS free at the point of delivery – despite groups linked to Labour claiming the opposite.

And he warned voters that in fact it is Labour insiders who have an agenda to make people for the NHS and cut the state pension.

Mr Aker said: “Labour are the party that carried on the PFI project in the NHS. In addition their open borders policies turned it into an international health service, costing £2bn per year.

“Only recently Labour’s Lord Warner announced plans to charge NHS patients £10 a month to use the NHS. Labour are only putting around lies about UKIP to hide their own agenda.

“UKIP will defend the NHS and services you rely on. Money can be saved from the quangos and we can get better value but we support and defend the policy that healthcare should be free at the point of need. The other parties want cuts at home while sending £55m a day to the EU and increasing foreign aid. UKIP believes charity begins at home.”

He added: “Labour’s Rachel Reeves, shadow work and pensions secretary, admitted recently that they would include the state pension in their social security spending cap, which will cut the state pension.

truthspoon 23-05-2014 09:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by strummer101 (Post 1062106188)
?? Son of a stock broker, public schoolboy, City trader, Tory party member, free marketeer, 'laissez-faire', privatise the NHS......this man is the embodiment of 'the elite'.

Except he hasn't been invited to the 'party'....yet.

Who knows what will happen, assuming he can go all the way one day and win the general election, when he is shown the 'secret film' by powerful men chomping cigars.

Still, I think his point about upsetting the traditional 'left right politics' is essential for the progress of modern democracy.

I think his contribution is essential at this time. He may be of the elite, but he isn't in the elite club.... they tried to kill the guy for heaven's sake.

I think he and his party are a major thorn in the side of the corrupt political agenda.


I just like the guy. He kicks ass in the European parliament, tells it like it is, has talked to Alex Jones and he like a proper pint of British beer.

The guy's a hero. Sorry.... I just love how much he pisses off the liberals and make them froth uninformed platitudes about 'fascism'. He's worth it for that alone.

strummer101 23-05-2014 10:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by grannie27 (Post 1062106194)
:confused: why do you make this shit up ???

Check their last general election manifesto!! They are to the right of Pol Pot.

truthspoon 23-05-2014 10:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by strummer101 (Post 1062106201)
Check their last general election manifesto!! They are to the right of Pol Pot.

Go ahead. Shoot.

I like how they refuse to get involved in foreign wars. That would make a change.


Anyway:

Quote:

Nigel Farage has disowned his party's entire 2010 election manifesto after he was asked whether the UK Independence party still wanted to introduce a dress code for taxi drivers, regularly deploy armed forces on the street and repaint trains in traditional colours.

The Ukip leader said all the party's policies were under review and he would not commit to new ones until after the European elections in May.

Speaking on BBC2's Daily Politics, Farage argued he was not in charge of the party in 2010 as he was just a candidate – despite having previously led the group between 2006 and 2009. "I don't defend the 2010 manifesto. I didn't put it together," he said.

Farage addressed the issue again during a lecture at the London School of Economics, emphasising the party "got it wrong" when it came to publishing policies at the last election.
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/...tion-manifesto

strummer101 23-05-2014 10:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by edelweiss pirate (Post 1062106200)
Except he hasn't been invited to the 'party'....yet.

Who knows what will happen, assuming he can go all the way one day and win the general election, when he is shown the 'secret film' by powerful men chomping cigars.

Still, I think his point about upsetting the traditional 'left right politics' is essential for the progress of modern democracy.

I think his contribution is essential at this time. He may be of the elite, but he isn't in the elite club.... they tried to kill the guy for heaven's sake.

I think he and his party are a major thorn in the side of the corrupt political agenda.


I just like the guy. He kicks ass in the European parliament, tells it like it is, has talked to Alex Jones and he like a proper pint of British beer.

The guy's a hero. Sorry.... I just love how much he pisses off the liberals and make them froth uninformed platitudes about 'fascism'. He's worth it for that alone.

If 'they' wanted him dead, he would be pushing up daisies! Where's Felix when you need him. Sorry, he is a Tory back-bencher a la Bill Cash without the crazy baggage, who smokes a fag and has a pint at lunchtime.

I worked in the City for a while, these guys are ten a penny. He has had the gumption to make it big, fair play to him for that.

grannie27 23-05-2014 10:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by strummer101 (Post 1062106201)
Check their last general election manifesto!! They are to the right of Pol Pot.

They don't have a general Election manifesto ...it was torn up and the new one will be issued to the public later this year .

Might I add the last load of rubbish was written by Ex Tories who joined the party Farrage even admitted it was a load of old crap ....sabbotage springs to mind .
Still UKIP have done very well for such a New Party .

Hate them if you must but repeating the MSM lies as fact makes you look pretty stupid .

strummer101 23-05-2014 10:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by grannie27 (Post 1062106211)
They don't have a general Election manifesto ...it was torn up and the new one will be issued to the public later this year .

Might I add the last load of rubbish was written by Ex Tories who joined the party Farrage even admitted it was a load of old crap ....sabbotage springs to mind .
Still UKIP have done very well for such a New Party .

Hate them if you must but repeating the MSM lies as fact makes you look pretty stupid .

Sorry, the 2010 manifesto! As your mate says, Farage has disowned it, as the leader he seemed to know nothing about what was in it!

'Those are my principles....if you don't like them, I have others!' Thanks Groucho

bendoon 23-05-2014 11:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by strummer101 (Post 1062106201)
Check their last general election manifesto!! They are to the right of Pol Pot.

Thats not hard since Pol Pot was about as far left as it would be possible to get, even Ken Livingstone is to the right of Pol Pot.

rosomak 23-05-2014 11:28 PM

UKIP mm seems fine. I listened to Farage dismantle Clegg, a 3 year old retard could dismantle Clegg. I then had a wee look for UKIP policies, that was a struggle.
I am a Scottish man looking to leave the EU, the problem is I cannot vote for this party.
This is simply because this party has no consideration for my country. In actuality this party
should be called EIP, it is an English party, if they had any real say we would have to bow to
London. As far as I can see, after looking at their own material, they are a back of a fag packet policy party.

vorwahr 24-05-2014 02:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bendoon (Post 1062106303)
Thats not hard since Pol Pot was about as far left as it would be possible to get, even Ken Livingstone is to the right of Pol Pot.

What a stupid thing to say .

blue2 24-05-2014 09:17 AM

UKIP failed miserably in my area,plus a UKIP guy made himself look stupid so would have put folks off him by having a go at Romanians stealing so he got ousted, and not pleased that village where i live is back to Conservative for local stuff and i cannot stand the woman, from Libs and i couldn't stand the man who ruled here for years all false and corrupted. Labour got majority in town,very disappointed, for god sakes wished the people in my area would wake up. I've very little in common with anyone anymore lol. UKIP and Independent i voted for and the EU form was a joke totalled 15 only one of whom i know god knows who all the rest were/are. I voted one on that sheet,wouldn't have bothered if not for protest vote really. I know one thing there is a strong Common Purpose around these parts though.

Farage aint afraid to speak his mind but still his background makes me nervous and how long would it last once inside No10 with others pulling his strings,if ever he gets that far...just as with Obama he's been made to be a very nasty person but at the back of him were Clintons etc and who took him to his first Bilderberg meeting-not their own boss once in office-although there is more of an airy fairy business with him.

carl0599 24-05-2014 09:29 AM

I think it is just a good idea to remind people of the utopian society that Barrack Obama promised prior to his first term of office

be aware it is called politics, what is preached on the doorstep is not necessarily that which is practised in their reality, as a fact of politics it has never been known for a politician to actually fulfil their manifesto and not add something which was usually not disclosed to the voter. [breach of contract]

blue2 24-05-2014 09:32 AM

Here! here! Carl0599:)

john white 24-05-2014 05:55 PM

I completely agree with the OP that UKIP's success in weathering the storm of invective and hate hysteria thrown their way represents KBO in true British fashion. I know better to think UKIP itself is the organsiation that it going to "save" everybody: people have to learn to save themselves, but it is a light shining though the darkness giving the people a VERY rare opportunity. I have made a thread with some perspectives to explore that opportunity here: http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?t=274712

dragond 24-05-2014 06:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by strummer101 (Post 1062106188)
?? Son of a stock broker, public schoolboy, City trader, Tory party member, free marketeer, 'laissez-faire', privatise the NHS......this man is the embodiment of 'the elite'.

He could be or not. Can i ask what your thoughts are/were on JFK? You know his story, so i dont need to link info on his life, where he came from, what his family did or what happened when he got in power. He was as 'elite' as the rest of them but for some reason he wasn't 'elite' enough, hence the Dallas assasination.


D

truthspoon 24-05-2014 09:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by john white (Post 1062107058)
I completely agree with the OP that UKIP's success in weathering the storm of invective and hate hysteria thrown their way represents KBO in true British fashion. I know better to think UKIP itself is the organsiation that it going to "save" everybody: people have to learn to save themselves, but it is a light shining though the darkness giving the people a VERY rare opportunity. I have made a thread with some perspectives to explore that opportunity here: http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?t=274712

Hey John White, a real blast from the past.

I never did like that avatar though. The Gandalf thing was better. Bring Gandalf back!

danster82 24-05-2014 10:12 PM

Theres nothing surprising about it at all, its history repeating itself, frustration has set in to a high degree so people vote in the worst as a protest.

Theres not an ounce of good in ukip and most people who are voting for them know that.

Just another setback for this country while it process's its unconscious garbage.


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