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-   -   The Masonic Messiah (https://forum.davidicke.com/showthread.php?t=143153)

lightgiver 07-11-2010 01:53 PM

The Masonic Messiah
 
Come on own up who is it?

Just as the New Age Movement claims Jesus Christ as one of their kind -as a chief Ascended Master- Thus, we find in Freemasonic literature and ritual an oft repeated claim that "Jesus was a Freemason."

http://img696.imageshack.us/img696/2179/2887567f520.jpg

The Messiah Complex
Rabbi Adin Even-Yisrael (Steinsalz)
Translated by Dr. Isaac Y. Hayutman

"The People of Israel, in its general national being, and moreover in the being of each individual, is affected by a certain characteristic complex, namely the Messiah complex"

" . . .They all hold within them, some unconsciously perhaps, the basic dream of the Jewish child: to be a messiah."

http://www.thehope.org/mescompl.htm

stewart edwards 07-11-2010 01:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lightgiver (Post 1059396747)
Come on own up who is it?

I thought that it was you Lightgiver:D

dreampower 07-11-2010 02:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stewart edwards (Post 1059396773)
I thought that it was you Lightgiver:D

I thought that it was you Stewart!

lightgiver 07-11-2010 02:04 PM

Three
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by stewart edwards (Post 1059396773)
I thought that it was you Lightgiver:D

Its just that I have been hearing some rumours ;)

Quote:

Originally Posted by cess (Post 1059394908)
We're really lucky on this board. We've gotten, what, about 3 new messiahs on here in the past month? :rolleyes:


merlincove 07-11-2010 02:17 PM

When one considers that Christ was aligned with the Enochian lineage, and that as he embodied the royal line of David's ascension to the throne of David and the spiritual 'healer' aspect of the faith - he united both the Royal and Spiritual pillars existing in union under God.

http://i667.photobucket.com/albums/v...ithons-sun.jpg

The being of Christ was a powerful conduit for the faith, and when we see the Roman Church's drive across Europe and into England and consider their 'crusade' against the Druidical faith (which was a descendant again of the ancient foundation from Enochian order) - it becomes clear that the Roman drive to cull all aspects of Enochian faith was evident in the crucifiction of the Christ rather than a crucifiction of the King of the Jews.

It is somethin i am beginning to look into too, and i wonder whether the Freemasons follow the lineage of Christ of the Enochian lineage or Jesus the king of the Jews, and i feel that they forsake the truth of Christ and that the Masonic messiah is the figurehead who would wear the crown of David.

marpat 07-11-2010 02:24 PM

Its a bit low of you to just say you feel they forsake truth. What truth are you on about anyway? many of the gnostic gospels tell the 'truths' of jesus that the canons wont even touch.

Why would masons need a messiah anyway? when you think that many orders, like the scottish rite require a person to be christian, then their messiah is going to be jesus anyway. What about masosn who belong to eastern religions, who might follow krishna or buddha, etc? what about Muslim masons, who do not see jesus as a messiah but just as a prophet. The whole messiah thing is of jewish origin while freemaosnry goes far beyond that

one666 07-11-2010 02:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lightgiver (Post 1059396792)
Its just that I have been hearing some rumours ;)

I would always ignore these people who claim to be messiahs as they are obviously in need of some sort of help if they actually believe this. I use the name one666 but i don't go round the forums proclaiming to be the wise one etc. These people have a screw loose

merlincove 07-11-2010 02:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by marpat (Post 1059396871)
Why would masons need a messiah anyway? when you think that many orders, like the scottish rite require a person to be christian, then their messiah is going to be jesus anyway. What about masosn who belong to eastern religions, who might follow krishna or buddha, etc? what about Muslim masons, who do not see jesus as a messiah but just as a prophet. The whole messiah thing is of jewish origin while freemaosnry goes far beyond that

But which Jesus? Jesus the Son of God / spiritual leader, or Jesus the son of Mary the Divine provenance to the throne?

Because Jesus the Christ united both aspects - they crucified one, i think it is an important question to ask which one - and in doing so then we can decipher the answer as to which truth the order is living by, and which truth they have forsaken.

one666 07-11-2010 02:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by merlincove (Post 1059396887)
But which Jesus? Jesus the Son of God / spiritual leader, or Jesus the son of Mary the Divine provenance to the throne?

Because Jesus the Christ united both aspects - they crucified one, i think it is an important question to ask which one - and in doing so then we can decipher the answer as to which truth the order is living by, and which truth they have forsaken.

Maybe if religion never existed the world would be a better place? Remember this is where all our screwed up laws are based on. The ten commandments

merlincove 07-11-2010 02:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by one666 (Post 1059396909)
Maybe if religion never existed the world would be a better place? Remember this is where all our screwed up laws are based on. The ten commandments

Consider that the Enochian lineage based their faith and 'rule' on the concepts of two pillars being united under God, as depicted in the trilathon imagery:

http://i667.photobucket.com/albums/v...ithons-sun.jpg

The spiritual leader and the divine leader existing as equals under God: so that the structure of faith was a consideration of the voice of Divinity and the voice of the people joined together by God.

Jesus took on both pillars.

stewart edwards 07-11-2010 02:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dreampower (Post 1059396778)
I thought that it was you Stewart!

Who me, a poor man rejected by the masons?! Perhaps "they" will offer me and Lightgiver a job-share?

I actually feel sorry for whoever such a person turned out to be. Assassination, blackmail, kidnapping and torture, all potentially await. I mean can you imagine how many noses would be out of joint and the sheer fear of those who were scared!! And then who would believe? Take Jesus, to Christians he was the messiah, but as someone above rightly pointed out, to his own people, he was but a phrophet. I could forgive the poor bloke (as in next messiah) for not wanting the job. I could imagine that he would most probably have chosen to work in the background, leading by example, but letting those who desire fancy titles have them. ( I mean if you already are part of the Kingdom, what do Earthly titles matter (beyond enabling authority to some) - think about it)

I mean come on seriously - if it were you, would you admit to it?

Anyhow what does it matter, besides as we know form the Da Vinci Code the messiah is a sexy French policewoman;)

marpat 07-11-2010 02:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by merlincove (Post 1059396887)
But which Jesus? Jesus the Son of God / spiritual leader, or Jesus the son of Mary the Divine provenance to the throne?

Because Jesus the Christ united both aspects - they crucified one, i think it is an important question to ask which one - and in doing so then we can decipher the answer as to which truth the order is living by, and which truth they have forsaken.

Personally I dont believe the christ is one person but a state of mind attainable by anybody, in practice similar to the enlightenment of Buddhism.

As for what masons think of jesus, that will have to be their own choice, the lodge does not force a belief onto anybody. I was told by an experienced mason that there is only one degree that is based on christianity although many orders require a person to be a christian to join.

stewart edwards 07-11-2010 03:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by marpat (Post 1059396992)
Personally I dont believe the christ is one person but a state of mind attainable by anybody, in practice similar to the enlightenment of Buddhism.

Indeed. The only difference is that we are all at different stages of different paths to the same place. But when you reach a certain point you begin to illuminate the way through your actions in the drudgery of daily life for those who follow on your path, and a bit to others as well, like a beacon in the night.

In truth, the messiah is simply someone who has reached a certain level of enlightenment. Now whether fellow humans recognise this or not in someone is a different matter.

I mean how would you recognsie the messiah? Think about it.

marpat 07-11-2010 03:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stewart edwards (Post 1059397014)
Indeed. The only difference is that we are all at different stages of different paths to the same place. But when you reach a certain point you begin to illuminate the way through your actions in the drudgery of daily life for those who follow on your path, and a bit to others as well, like a beacon in the night.

In truth, the messiah is simply someone who has reached a certain level of enlightenment. Now whether fellow humans recognise this or not in someone is a different matter.

I mean how would you recognsie the messiah? Think about it.

I guess any form of recognition would be based on an internal response to their knowlegde, but how do you define its depth? as far as I am aware messiah was a name given to hebrew kings anyway.

The jesus of the church is just their way of consolidating control of people by claiming to have a unique person who alone can offer salvation. This might be good enough for many but there are a growing number of people who reject this idea because they see the truth in spritual traditions around the globe, some of which are condemned by christians.

stewart edwards 07-11-2010 03:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by marpat (Post 1059397058)
I guess any form of recognition would be based on an internal response to their knowlegde,

I agree.

Quote:

but how do you define its depth?
I dont think that you need to. Think about "love at first sight" or even "seeing someone you fancy or want to have sex with", or "a feeling of deja vu" all (albeit very different) types of inner response to people or places we stumble across.

There are those, who have written to me (and yes they are masons) pleased that they have "found the one", while others have got right in my face (again masons) telling me that I am no more than a "false phrophet" [that was quite funny as I didnt even know what a phrophet was back then, far less a false one]:eek: Other masons have compared me to a famous bloke 2000 years ago, in front of my family:eek: and told me that I am clearly on a "divine mission". Yet you have also seen for yourself the intolerance towards me by other masons, even on this very forum.

For me I find it all quite funny. For I know who I am, and I am not really all that bothered who others think that I am. I am who I am, a simple man. I plod and stumble along doing the best I can.

I am sure that there are plenty of people out there who would love to be put on a pedestal, called the messiah, and pomped around with robes, honours, la de da de da. But I already have all that I want from life. Now anything else is simply icing on the cake.

Perhaps Homer Simpson should get the job. A global fan base, and according to the BBC News the Vatican has publicly stated that he is Catholic (though his producers disagree). But hold on the messiah may not be Catholic, or Christian for that matter - after all he was Jewish last time:eek:

I still think that lightgiver should be given a crack at the Job:) - are you up for it LG:confused:

dreampower 07-11-2010 04:01 PM

The majority love to believe that a 'messiah' exists and infact, the minority also possess an alike mental status.

'Ignorance' (a byproduct that is created from the illusion of 'individuality', 'separation', 'fragmented consciousness') looks to that with which it is not.

What not is fragmented consciousness? 'Constant' harmony. What is existence, defined from the terms that the human condition is capable of percieving...? The interaction of/and motion between polarities. The remainder is a 'secret'. (I'm not a 'mason' just incase anybody was 'wondering').

merlincove 07-11-2010 04:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by marpat (Post 1059396992)
Personally I dont believe the christ is one person but a state of mind attainable by anybody, in practice similar to the enlightenment of Buddhism.

.

i agree with that, but i was speaking historically, but in current context, yes, i'd very much agree :D

Quote:

Originally Posted by marpat (Post 1059396992)
As for what masons think of jesus, that will have to be their own choice, the lodge does not force a belief onto anybody. I was told by an experienced mason that there is only one degree that is based on christianity although many orders require a person to be a christian to join.

i was under the impression that initaiate mason's are asked 'To who do you put your trust in' - and that the appropriate answer is 'i put my trust in God' - is that not a maxim of joining the masonic order?

lizzyking 07-11-2010 05:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by marpat (Post 1059396992)
Personally I dont believe the christ is one person but a state of mind attainable by anybody, in practice similar to the enlightenment of Buddhism.

You might enjoy this read:
Quote:

Buddhist Influence on Aleister Crowley

http://www.ashejournal.com/five/jellyfish.shtml

lightgiver 07-11-2010 05:55 PM

Abrahamic religions
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by marpat (Post 1059396871)
Its a bit low of you to just say you feel they forsake truth. What truth are you on about anyway? many of the gnostic gospels tell the 'truths' of jesus that the canons wont even touch.

Why would masons need a messiah anyway? when you think that many orders, like the scottish rite require a person to be christian, then their messiah is going to be jesus anyway. What about masosn who belong to eastern religions, who might follow krishna or buddha, etc? what about Muslim masons, who do not see jesus as a messiah but just as a prophet. The whole messiah thing is of jewish origin while freemaosnry goes far beyond that


Abrahamic religions

The three religions have been intertwined throughout their histories. They are considered inextricably linked to one another because of a 'family likeness' and a certain commonality in theology: all three claim to be monotheistic (although both Judaism and Islam doubt Christianity's right to this description), and conceive God to be a transcendent Creator-figure and the source of moral law. They are faiths that recognize a spiritual tradition identified with Abraham. The sacred narratives of all three of these religions feature many of the same figures, histories and places in each, although they often present them with different roles, perspectives and meanings.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...nSymbolAbr.PNG
Symbols of the Abrahamic religions: Judaism represented by the Star of David (top), Christianity represented by the Cross (left), and Islam represented by the Arabic calligraphy of God's Name (Allah) (right).


All the major Abrahamic religions claim a direct lineage to Abraham.

* Abraham is recorded in the Torah as the ancestor of the Israelites through his son Isaac, born to Sarah through a promise made in Genesis.[Gen. 17:16] All variants of Judaism through the early twentieth century (prophetic, rabbinic, reform, and conservative) were founded by Israelite descendants.
* Christianity is sourced from Christ, known to be Jewish, and therefore making the same ancestry claim as above.
* Muslims have a tradition that Muhammed, as a Mecca-region Arab, descends from Abraham's son Ishmael.

Other terms sometimes used include Abrahamic faiths, Abrahamic traditions, religions of Abraham, Abrahamic monotheistic religions, semitic religions, Semitic monotheistic religions, and Semitic one god religions.

However, the term 'Abrahamic faiths,' while helpful, is also misleading. It conveys an unspecified historical and theological commonality that is problematic on closer examination. While there is commonality among the religions, in large measure their shared ancestry is peripheral to their respective foundational beliefs and thus eclipse crucial differences. For example, the core Christian beliefs of Incarnation, Trinity, and Jesus' Resurrection are categorically denied by Judaism and Islam (see for example Islamic view of Jesus' death.) There are key beliefs in both Islam and Judaism that are not shared by Christianity, and so on.

dreampower 07-11-2010 06:06 PM

The majority love to believe that a 'messiah' exists and infact, the minority also possess an alike mental status.

'Ignorance' (a byproduct that is created from the illusion of 'individuality', 'separation', 'fragmented consciousness') looks to that with which it is not.

What not is fragmented consciousness? 'Constant' harmony. What is existence, defined from the terms that the human condition is capable of percieving...? The interaction of/and motion between polarities.


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