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illuminumnuts 09-10-2012 07:32 PM

Savile: freemason?
 
If he wasn't a freemason, then please say so. Thank you. :)

welling 09-10-2012 07:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by illuminumnuts (Post 1061076337)
If he wasn't a freemason, then please say so. Thank you. :)

No he wasn't. He was a Roman Catholic though.:rolleyes:

truthspoon 09-10-2012 08:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by welling (Post 1061076368)
No he wasn't. He was a Roman Catholic though.:rolleyes:

A Christian and a friend and advisor to Israel?

That seems highly unlikely doesn't it?

ducks in anticipation of being labelled anti-semitic


Quote:

JIMMY SAVILE FIXED IT FOR ISRAEL

Sir Jimmy Savile in Israel in 1975.

JIMMY SAVILE FIX IT FOR ISRAEL IN 1977?

http://www.jewishtelegraph.com/savile.html (links found at Jimmy Savile Sex Beast Allegations.)

In 1977, Israel’s Prime Minister Menachem Begin had a meeting with Egyptian president Anwar Sadat.

This led to 'peace' between the two countries.

Sir Jimmy Savile received a medal from Israel in 1979, for services rendered.

Reportedly, Savile visited Israel in 1975 to advise Israel's President Ephraim Katzir on a matter of security.

Reportedly, Savile told the Israeli cabinet that he "was very disappointed: the Israelis had won the Six Day War but they had given back all the land, including the only oil well in the region, and were now paying the Egyptians more for oil than if they had bought it from Saudi Arabia."


Princess Diana with Jimmy Savile.

Reportedly, Savile visited Israel a number of times to offer his advice.

A Manchester businessman, Benny Sternberg, revealed that "Savile had been approached to explore the possibility of a meeting between Sadat and Begin because of his friendship with the family of the Egyptian president's wife Jehan."

Savile described himself as "the only yok with a Yiddishe kop".


Howard Silverman was one of Sir Jimmy Savile’s closest pals. Website for this image

"Savile claimed during an interview with The Guardian newspaper’s Simon Hattenstone that he told Professor Katzir: 'I’m very disappointed because you’ve all forgotten how to be Jewish and that’s why everyone is taking you to the cleaners … You won the Six Day War, you took all that land, you gave it all back, including the only oil well in the area, and now you’re paying the Egyptians for the oil you already had.'
"Savile also maintained that the president invited him to repeat his words at a Cabinet meeting. 'They asked my opinion about a couple of things, to which I said, ‘Nothing’s impossible’. They did exactly what I suggested and it worked out 100 per cent successful.’”
"The occasion was confirmed partly by Roger Ordish, producer of Jim'll Fix It, who said: 'I know he met the President when we were in Israel in 1975.'
http://technorati.com/entertainment/...abra-fixed-it/

"Sir Jimmy always said he had berated the Israeli Cabinet in 1975 for being too soft after the Six Day War."

http://www.thejc.com/news/uk-news/57...-my-batmitzvah

Savile's "ten-day visit to Israel in 1975, when he met President Ephraim Katzir and Jerusalem mayor Teddy Kollek, was organised by John Levy of the Friends of Israel Educational Trust...

"One of Savile's eight homes was a flat in the heart of the Leeds Jewish community in Roundhay...

"He was a regular at fundraising dinners at synagogues in Leeds and Manchester..."


Cardinal Keith O'Brien with Jimmy Savile

Jimmy Savile had both a Royal and Papal knighthood (Order of St. Gregory the Great)

He was a Knights Hospitaller (also known as the Sovereign Military Hospitaller Order of St. John of Jerusalem of Rhodes and of Malta, Order of St. John, Knights of Malta, and Chevaliers of Malta)

http://aangirfan.blogspot.com/2012/1...or-israel.html

illuminumnuts 09-10-2012 08:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by welling (Post 1061076368)
No he wasn't. He was a Roman Catholic though.:rolleyes:

If it's impossible that he could have been and you wouldn't have known, then please say so. Thank you. :)

truthspoon 09-10-2012 08:20 PM

Savile was a member of the Knights Hospitalier which was a group strongly analogous to the Knights Templar but a kind of 'lite' version.

Basically the Knights of the Hospital took over the holdings of the Temple Knights, and similarly, the Hospitalier knights were associated with Jerusalem pilgrims.

Quote:

Anonymous said...
Given Savile's untouchability, his hardcore associations with the extremely powerful, and, tellingly for mine, his elevation to the ranks of such groups as the Knights of Malta, I'd say the question, 'Was Jimmy Savile being used by the intelligence services?' should be turned on its head. Which is to say, it's far more likely that they worked for him, ie. he was a powerbroker and called the shots.

The idea that he rubbed shoulders (and in no small way) with royalty, presidents, and prime ministers because he was, I don't know... 'fun', fails in the face of the likelihood of him being one of their peers. Hell, let's scratch the word 'peer' and insert
'senior' or 'mentor'. They pretty much tell us this themselves.

Just the fact that he refused to own a computer speaks volumes. He knew what a computer was: a means by which the intelligence services could entrap and catch lower-pecking-order paedophiles (thus magnifying the fear and loathing attached to their blackmail threat). Neither Gary Glitter nor Pete Townshed knew this. Savile was possessed of 'intelligence' in the same way that they weren't.

Putting all this together, under the logic of as-likely-as-any-other-thing I'd guess that Savile was the kind of 'senior' that comes with 33rd degree masonry (or higher), or satanist high-priesthood. Or both. It's almost certain to be something like that.

welling 09-10-2012 08:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by edelweiss pirate (Post 1061076400)
Savile was a member of the Knights Hospitalier which was a group strongly analogous to the Knights Templar but a kind of 'lite' version.

Basically the Knights of the Hospital took over the holdings of the Temple Knights, and similarly, the Hospitalier knights were associated with Jerusalem pilgrims.

Regardless of what many on here would love to be true, Jimmy Saville was never a member of any regular Freemasonic organisation.

If you have any proof, other than speculation or hearsay to the contrary please share it with us.

If your intention is to somehow link Jimmy Saville with an organisation that condones or participates in paedophillia, I think you may be better off digging out the Roman Catholic Church.


:cool:

illuminumnuts 09-10-2012 09:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by welling (Post 1061076465)
Regardless of what many on here would love to be true, Jimmy Saville was never a member of any regular Freemasonic organisation.

Welling, you are beginning to sound a little paranoid to be honest. :(

Quote:

Originally Posted by illuminumnuts (Post 1061076397)
If it's impossible that he could have been and you wouldn't have known, then please say so. Thank you. :)

Just a reminder in case you stumble across any further knowledge which could provide certainty on the issue. Thank you. :)

welling 09-10-2012 09:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by illuminumnuts (Post 1061076474)
Welling, you are beginning to sound a little paranoid to be honest. :(

And your beginning to sound like you have an unhealthy obsession about Jimmy Savile.:rolleyes:


Just a reminder in case you stumble across any further knowledge which could provide certainty on the issue. Thank you. :)


Oh yeah of course I will. I've made a note to get back to you as soon as I hear anything
.:rolleyes:

illuminumnuts 09-10-2012 09:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by welling (Post 106107651)
And your beginning to sound like you have an unhealthy obsession about Jimmy Savile.

Please, I was certainly not insinuating that you had any unhealthy obsessions. :(

Quote:

Originally Posted by welling (Post 106107651)
Oh yeah of course I will. I've made a note to get back to you as soon as I hear anything.

Welling, that is very good to hear. I have heard from several masons that they will always try to answer questions where possible and I am glad that you won't let the team down on this occasion. Thank you. :)

lizzy 09-10-2012 09:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by illuminumnuts (Post 1061076529)
Welling, that is very good to hear. I have heard from several masons that they will always try to answer questions where possible and I am glad that you won't let the team down on this occasion. Thank you. :)

:D..:cool:

EP's posts, esp re Israel ( which I've heard mention of before) make perfect sense to me. To have the 'protection' Vile had from So far up , almost scream Masonary.

welling 09-10-2012 10:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lizzy (Post 1061076553)
:D..:cool:

EP's posts, esp re Israel ( which I've heard mention of before) make perfect sense to me. To have the 'protection' Vile had from So far up , almost scream Masonary.

You seem to have alot of knowledge of this thing called "Masonary", is it possible you could share some of it with proof?

Thanks

Welling
:cool:

illuminumnuts 09-10-2012 10:14 PM

Horses For Courses.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by welling (Post 1061076572)
You seem to have alot of knowledge of this thing called "Masonary", is it possible you could share some of it with proof?

Welling, let's wait and see what you can come up with first. Always best from the horse's mouth as they say. I hope that you might hear something soon and can report back with all the relevant details, as you previously indicated you would do. Don't pull up lame and keep up the good work... :)

mrunhappy 09-10-2012 10:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by welling (Post 1061076368)
No he wasn't. He was a Roman Catholic though.:rolleyes:

Cathoilic, mason, often concurrent... often the same...

illuminumnuts 09-10-2012 10:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mrunhappy (Post 1061076583)
Cathoilic, mason, often concurrent... often the same...

Please, we need proof. Let's all just be patient and wait to see what he can come up with. :)

mrunhappy 09-10-2012 10:20 PM

masonry smasonry.. that's the thing that gets little soldiers off.

big stuff is beyond masonry. big stuff doesn't need masonry.

illuminumnuts 09-10-2012 10:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mrunhappy (Post 1061076590)
masonry smasonry.. that's the thing that gets little soldiers off. big stuff is beyond masonry. big stuff doesn't need masonry.

Do you have proof though? :(

lizzy 09-10-2012 10:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by welling (Post 1061076572)
You seem to have alot of knowledge of this thing called "Masonary", is it possible you could share some of it with proof?

Thanks

Welling
:cool:

NO:D.....I'm not your research assistant. Finding out for ones' self is ALWAYS the best way. I can't say he is a mason but it would be quite logical if he was.
The other side of that penny is he didn't need to be to get the protection and access to his victims that he had. With Israel on your side and the media already.
However, EP's post is entirely logical.

welling 09-10-2012 10:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by illuminumnuts (Post 1061076577)
Welling, let's wait and see what you can come up with first. Always best from the horse's mouth as they say. I hope that you might hear something soon and can report back with all the relevant details, as you previously indicated you would do. Don't pull up lame and keep up the good work... :)

Suits me. just to let you know that I've spoken to a couple of my Masonic friends that sit on the Supreme Council of the 33rd Degree AASR, another friend who sits on the Council of Nine and the Deputy Grand Consul of the Newton Commission. I've told them all that Illuminumnuts has asked about Jimmy Saville on the DI forum. As soon as I said it was for you, they all promised to come back to me asap.

Hopefully it won't take too long.;)

illuminumnuts 09-10-2012 10:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by welling (Post 1061076604)
Suits me. just to let you know that I've spoken to a couple of my Masonic friends that sit on the Supreme Council of the 33rd Degree AASR, another friend who sits on the Council of Nine and the Deputy Grand Consul of the Newton Commission. I've told them all that Illuminumnuts has asked about Jimmy Saville on the DI forum. As soon as I said it was for you, they all promised to come back to me asap. Hopefully it won't take too long.

Welling, that is excellent news and I am flattered to know they saw fit to expedite the investigatory process in my name. I will of course wait patiently though. All's well that ends well... :)

welling 09-10-2012 10:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mrunhappy (Post 1061076583)
Cathoilic, mason, often concurrent... often the same...

That makes sense! :rolleyes:

jp13 09-10-2012 10:37 PM

Freddie Starr Ate Me
 
Well I don't know if this has been posted before, but surely I can't be the only one to think it, even though I have nil proof.
Was he a member of the Royal Family?
I only ask because the amount of power he seemed to wield was considerable.
Watching this thing unfold in the mainstream news, even though I've not read many newspapers, it just seems to be to good to be true, with new revelations about him every day, as if it was all planned beforehand to bring some one's down or provide a smokescreen while something else goes on IDK:eek:

welling 09-10-2012 10:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jp13 (Post 1061076633)
Well I don't know if this has been posted before, but surely I can't be the only one to think it, even though I have nil proof.
Was he a member of the Royal Family?
I only ask because the amount of power he seemed to wield was considerable.
Watching this thing unfold in the mainstream news, even though I've not read many newspapers, it just seems to be to good to be true, with new revelations about him every day, as if it was all planned beforehand to bring some one's down or provide a smokescreen while something else goes on IDK:eek:

I'm fairly certain, he wasn't a member of the Royal Family.;)

My guess is that many celebrities cosied up to the man because of his work for charity and wanted to be associated with him because of this. I imagine there were also a few who were friendly to Savile because of his access to kids. Maybe Saville had a hold on some of these people that bought their silence.

I do believe though, that there is a much bigger dedicated thread to Savile in the general section of the forum. I'm not sure why this one is here.:rolleyes:

diamond dogs 09-10-2012 11:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by welling (Post 1061076465)


If your intention is to somehow link Jimmy Saville with an organisation that condones or participates in paedophillia, I think you may be better off digging out the Roman Catholic Church.


:cool:

Were the Krays Masons ?

Was Child killer paedophile Brian Field a mason?

truthspoon 10-10-2012 07:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mrunhappy (Post 1061076590)
masonry smasonry.. that's the thing that gets little soldiers off.

big stuff is beyond masonry. big stuff doesn't need masonry.

The only thing I know of beyond Masonry is the interdimensional demonic/reptilian hierarchy itself.

Often people can work for freemasons towards the agenda, who are not freemasons themselves, because they are directly connected to these discarnate evil beings.

People like Savile were probably a member of EVERYTHING under the sun.

Catholic secret groups, Masonic groups, and likely Satanic groups (hence the rumours of necrophilia).


That way he could go where he liked and get what he wanted wherever he went.

truthspoon 10-10-2012 08:01 AM

I would also like to add that Welling's claim to know that Savile was NOT a Mason is absurd.

Elite masonic lodges are organised according to the profession of the member, or the degree reached. Somone like Savile would never have to mix with common low level masons. Just as the big stars and high powered professionals have their own lodges.

This is done expressly to separate members into groups with the intention of keeping the lower members in ignorance about the identity of and the purposes behind, the high degree and/or professional lodges.

screechy 10-10-2012 07:51 PM

http://www.standard.co.uk/incoming/a.../02-savile.jpg

NOW then, now then, he dont look like a mason to me more a nutty old perv man who use to live with his mum!

truthspoon 10-10-2012 09:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by screechy (Post 1061077991)
http://www.standard.co.uk/incoming/a.../02-savile.jpg

NOW then, now then, he dont look like a mason to me more a nutty old perv man who use to live with his mum!

What do they look like Screechy?

He was a Knight of Malta (which is also a Masonc degree btw).

kadosh 11-10-2012 12:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by edelweiss pirate (Post 1061078209)
What do they look like Screechy?

He was a Knight of Malta (which is also a Masonc degree btw).

It is not a Masonic degree at all and in his case it is a Papal Order. This once again proves my point you simply do not have a clue what you are on about. That is not a lie it is a fact. Check your messages are truthful and factual before posting on the forum.

screechy 11-10-2012 02:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by edelweiss pirate (Post 1061078209)
What do they look like Screechy?

He was a Knight of Malta (which is also a Masonc degree btw).

I dont want to disagree with you pirate, so I wont:o
as if he is a knight of malta he would defo have to be a freemason as you can not join that degree unless you have become a master mason in freemasonry

Still just think savile is just a dirty old perv who used his situation to get near children

screechy 11-10-2012 02:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kadosh (Post 1061078410)
It is not a Masonic degree at all and in his case it is a Papal Order. This once again proves my point you simply do not have a clue what you are on about. That is not a lie it is a fact. Check your messages are truthful and factual before posting on the forum.

You have to be a freemason to join or asked to join so give pirate that, but its not under the grandlodge of England as alot of people seem to think, but for pirate it is in the same year book, right Kadosh?:o

techman 11-10-2012 04:09 PM

Jimmy Savile.
 
I love how almost everyone on conspiracy sites and on here are saying "yes, David Icke was right about Jimmy Savile, etc". Although some people, whether conspiracy minded or not, will say he was involved, I very much doubt most people will be thinking of David Icke when Savile is brought up, or, will even believe he was one of many high profile people involved in pedophilia and not just an isolated case. Most people will just treat it with "oh well, he was just a freak who liked to abuse his powers abit and liked girls, etc", or others mostly say "he's dead now, he can't defend himself, don't judge a person by the way he dresses/looks".

Those are the kinds of comments I here from 'ordinary' people on mainstream (also non-mainstream) news websites, newspapers etc and not "that Icke was right what he said all those years, etc, etc"; the latter comments I only see on this site and other conspiracy sites which most don't wanna know about. People are jumping on the David Icke was right about child abuse bandwagon. Everytime there's a link to a David Icke claims Savile was a pedophile article, it's never a link from say The Daily Mail, Sunday Express, BBC, etc. Yes, I know those kinds of news sites are never gonna allow David and others with a similar mindset to express their views, but they have on other occasions (albeit in a humorous way). What I am basically saying is that, whether people agree about Savile or not, very few are relating the case to what Icke and others in the conspiracy world are saying. In short, I very much doubt people will go further down the hole and name more high profile people. I have a feeling that all it's gonna do is be pushed under the carpet and be forgotten about in a few years time, it always happens. I think they waited till he was dead so that he couldn't talk about (even if he was involved) in case he mentioned others involved so that he could - possibly - get off the hook. The people at the top are not stupid.

Also, I wonder how many people are gonna link Jimmy with the Savile family; why is it that people can't spell 'Savile' right? Just because he had that surname doesn't mean he was linked the Freemasonry or an occult family.

the mighty zhiba 12-10-2012 02:02 AM

Moderator Note.

This is not an arena for ego battles, please discuss things without making the discussion personal.

Some posts have been removed, lets not see the thread spiral into insult exchanges and personalisations eh.

truthspoon 12-10-2012 07:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kadosh (Post 1061078410)
[BThat is not a lie it is a fact. Check your messages are truthful and factual before posting on the forum.[/B]

Wrong AGAIN.
Quote:

The Knights Templar is an international philanthropic chivalric order affiliated with Freemasonry.
The Knight of Malta is a degree of Templar freemasonry.


That's twice you've been proved wrong about freemasonry Kadosh.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Knights...r_(Freemasonry)

ksigmason 12-10-2012 03:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by edelweiss pirate (Post 1061080550)
The Knight of Malta is a degree of Templar freemasonry.

It is an "order" of Freemasonry, not a degree, but as I said before, not all who use "Knight or Order of Malta" are Masons. There are plenty of non-Masonic Orders of Malta like SMOM. I would also like to note that we York Rite Masons never meet in a Priory of Knights of Malta (except for conferral only), but rather any time, specifically in business meetings, a Commandery opens it is always as Knights Templar. These names like "Malta", "Templar", or even "Freemasonry" are not copyrighted so anyone may use them...and do. Just because SMOM (a Catholic religious order) is a Maltese Order and Masons use a "Order of Malta" does not mean we are connected or united in any way other than mere circumstance of using a similar name, not in leadership, authority, intent, or even members.

truthspoon 12-10-2012 03:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ksigmason (Post 1061081030)
It is an "order" of Freemasonry, not a degree.


Knights Templar can exist either as part of the York Rite or as an independent organization. Though the York Rite and the independent versions share many similarities there are key differences which are described below.
[edit]Knights Templar as a part of the York Rite
Main article: York Rite
A Knights Templar commandery is traditionally the final body that a member joins in the York Rite after the chapter of Royal Arch Masons and a council of Royal & Select Masters. Some jurisdictions, however, allow members to skip over membership in a council. A local Knights Templar commandery operates under a state-level Grand Commandery, however American commanderies also operate under The Grand Encampment of the United States. This is unique among American Masonic bodies, as most report to the state level alone.

While a chapter bestows the Royal Arch degrees, and a council bestows the Cryptic degrees, a Knights Templar commandery bestows three orders and one passing order onto its members. This is opposed to the standard degree system found elsewhere in Freemasonry, and they are the only ones not to deal with the Hiramic Legend.[10] The York Rite orders are:
The Illustrious Order of the Red Cross
The Passing Order of St. Paul, (or Mediterranean Pass)
The Order of the Knights of Malta (or simply Order of Malta)
The Order of the Temple
[edit]Knights Templar as an Independent Body


The Cross pattée, symbol of the Order of the Temple in the independent body.

Outside the York Rite, membership is by invitation only. Candidates are required to be Master Masons, and Royal Arch Masons, and to sign a declaration that they profess the Doctrine of the Holy and Undivided Trinity. In some Australian States, the requirement of being a Royal Arch Mason no longer applies.

Local bodies of Knights Templar are known as Preceptories; local bodies of Knights of St Paul are known as Chapters; local bodies of Knights of Malta are known as Priories; all operate under a Grand or Great Priory, often with an intermediate level of Provincial Priories. Although some jurisdictions maintain a separate Great Priory of the Temple and Great Priory of Malta (as, for example, in England), the Grand Master and other officers of both Great Priories hold simultaneous equal office in both bodies.

Three degrees are administered in this system:
The Degree of Knight Templar (Order of the Temple)
The Degree of Knight of St. Paul (incorporating the Mediterranean Pass)
The Degree of Knight of Malta (Order of Malta)
[edit]The Degrees or Orders


The Cross and Crown, symbol of the Order of the Temple as found in the York Rite.
[edit]The Degree of Knight of the Temple (Order of the Temple)
The original medieval Order of Knights Templar was established after the First Crusade, and existed from approximately 1118 to 1312. There is no known historical evidence to link the medieval Knights Templar and Masonic Templarism, nor do the Masonic Knights Templar organizations claim any such direct link to the original medieval Templar organization.[11] Though it has been said that its affiliation with Masonry is based on texts that indicate persecuted Templars found refuge within the safety of Freemasonry, the order itself states that "there is no proof of direct connection between the ancient order and the modern order known today as the Knights Templar."[12] The official motto of the Knights Templar is In Hoc Signo Vinces, the rendition in Latin of the Greek phrase "εν τούτῳ νίκα", en toutōi nika, meaning "in this [sign] you will conquer".
The Knight Templar degree is associated with elaborate regalia (costume) the precise detail of which varies between nations. The ritual draws upon the traditions of medieval Knights Templar, using them to impart moral instruction consistent with the biblical teachings of the Christian tradition.
[edit]The Degree of Knight of Malta (Order of Malta)


The Maltese Cross, symbol of the Order of Malta.
This degree is universally associated with the Masonic Knights Templar. In the York Rite system it is conferred before the Templar Degree; in the 'stand-alone' tradition it is conferred subsequently to the Templar Degree. It is known by varying degrees of formality as the Order of Malta, or the Order of Knights of Malta, or the Ancient and Masonic Order of St John of Jerusalem, Palestine, Rhodes, and Malta. In practice this last and fullest version of the name tends to be reserved to letterheads, rituals, and formal documents.
The ceremony for conferring the degree (which is always worked in full) contains a mixture of masonic tradition, historical accounts of the Order of St John, moral teaching, and the communication of modes of recognition between members. A series of banners is employed in the ceremony, each representing one of the great battles of the historic medieval Order of St John, whose story is the basis of the moral teachings of the degree.
[edit]The Degree of Knight of St Paul (Order of St Paul)


Two downward pointing swords in saltire, symbol of the Order of St Paul.
This degree is conferred as a prerequisite to becoming a Knight of Malta, in both the York Rite and independent 'stand-alone' versions of Knight Templar Freemasonry. The "Preliminary Declarations" of the Order of Malta ritual in England state of a candidate for the Order of Malta: "He must also have received the Degree of Knight of St Paul, including the Mediterranean Pass". The exact status of the 'Mediterranean Pass' has at times led to confusion as to whether this is the 'stub' of a separate degree. The English ritual book clarified this in its 1989 edition (and subsequent editions) by stating: "The Mediterranean Pass is one of the secrets of the Degree of Knight of St Paul".[13]
This degree is close to being a true 'side degree', in that a small group (usually three) of members of the degree take the candidate "to one side" (i.e. apart on his own) and simply communicate the secrets of the degree to him, without actually working the ceremonial ritual of the degree. The only respect in which the degree fails to meet the definition of a true 'side degree' is that a Chapter of the Order is formally opened and closed by the presiding officer, on either side of the secrets being communicated.
[edit]The Illustrious Order of the Red Cross (Order of the Red Cross)
Unique to the York Rite, the Illustrious Order of the Red Cross continues or reverts to the period of the Royal Arch Degree when the Israelites were returning from Babylon to Jerusalem to rebuild the Temple. Zerubbabel, their leader prevails upon King Darius to restore the Holy Vessels to the new Temple. They had been carried away by the Babylonian armies when the first Temple was destroyed. In presenting his plea before the King, the companion gives a powerful testimony to the almighty force of Truth.
The ritual places the candidate in the role of Zerubbabel and follows him through his journey to King Darius and his role in the Immemorial Discussion, as found in the apocryphal book, 1 Esdras. The purpose is to bridge the gap between Royal Arch Masonry, and the Chivalric Orders as well the Old Testament and the New Testament. The Illustrious Order of the Red Cross teaches the lessons of the triumph of truth.
This Order is often considered a compressed version of the Order of Knight Masons.
It should not be confused with the Masoni
c Order known as the Red Cross of Constantine.

ksigmason 12-10-2012 03:31 PM

Here is a description of the Order of Malta:

Quote:

An Order emphasizing the lesson of faith. This Order requires the Mason to profess and practice the Christian faith. The pass degree of the Mediterranean Pass, or Knight of St. Paul prepares the candidate for the Order by introducing the lesson and example of the unfearing and faithful martyr of Christianity. The Order is centered on allegorical elements of the Knights of Malta, inheritors of the medieval Knights Hospitaller.

SOURCE
Quote:

THE ORDER OF MALTA

The ritual of the Order of Malta is purely Christian and, when conferred in full form, is one of the most striking and impressive of the degrees in the York rite system.

The Commandery of Knights Templar opens a "Priory of Knights of Malta" for the conferral of this Order. The work includes a pass degree termed "Knight of St. Paul, or the Mediterranean Pass." In accordance with the history of the original Knights of Malta, the degree created the candidate a Knight Hospitaler of St. John of Jerusalem, Palestine, Rhodes and Malta.

SOURCE

multisync 12-10-2012 04:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by welling (Post 1061076516)

Oh yeah of course I will. I've made a note to get back to you as soon as I hear anything
.:rolleyes:



This was touched on another forum a couple of years ago so I asked an insider with access to the records and this is what I got:

Quote:

Posted 19/03/2010 14:58

This once only.

I can confirm that James Wilson Vincent Savile does NOT appear on the register of members of the UGLE. With or without a Sir.

truthspoon 12-10-2012 04:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by multisync (Post 1061081075)
This was touched on another forum a couple of years ago so I asked an insider with access to the records and this is what I got:

The truth from Masons who are known for their lies?

We have seen this with Kadosh who will lie his way through a thread until pulled up by the facts, not that the facts will stop him though, he just keeps on going just ignoring or using semantics to twist facts to suit him.

So no Multisync, your trolling and that of your mason brothers has no currency here.

ksigmason 12-10-2012 04:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by edelweiss pirate (Post 1061081038)
Knights Templar can exist either as part of the York Rite or as an independent organization.

In American, the Commandery of Knights Templar falls under the term York Rite. The term York Rite is an American invention as outside of the US, particularly in the UK, they don't use the term York Rite and the degrees/orders are structured slightly different, but have some important similarities. Truly, the York Rite should be called the American Rite.

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Some jurisdictions, however, allow members to skip over membership in a council.
This is true.

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This is unique among American Masonic bodies, as most report to the state level alone.
Canada also has a tiered structure due to its provincial structure.

Your article seems to be missing an order practiced in the English system which replaces the American "Order of the Red Cross". I think the name involves "red cross", but I can't think of the official title. I'll have to look it up.

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Though it has been said that its affiliation with Masonry is based on texts that indicate persecuted Templars found refuge within the safety of Freemasonry, the order itself states that "there is no proof of direct connection between the ancient order and the modern order known today as the Knights Templar."
This is a romanticized theory. We do say that there is no direct connection and that we take their name in commemoration only.

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The Knight Templar degree is associated with elaborate regalia (costume) the precise detail of which varies between nations.
And the uniforms are expensive if you buy them new.

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In the York Rite system it is conferred before the Templar Degree; in the 'stand-alone' tradition it is conferred subsequently to the Templar Degree.
I will say this though, I found an early York Rite monitor that listed the Order of Malta after the Knights Templar. I will also say that the American York Rite has kept the rituals pretty much the same over the last couple centuries while in England many of the rituals, the Royal Arch particularly, has changed significantly.

While I find the Order of the Temple is one of the most beautiful ceremonies in all of Masonry I do enjoy the Order of Malta as I am the Marshall which guides the candidates and gives a large portion of the lecture.

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This degree is close to being a true 'side degree', in that a small group (usually three) of members of the degree take the candidate "to one side" (i.e. apart on his own) and simply communicate the secrets of the degree to him, without actually working the ceremonial ritual of the degree.
Unless the English system is completely different, this is not really true or is a misconception. It takes a large cast to put on this ceremony, but really only 3 people are the main actors: the Prior, the Prelate, and the Marshall.

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It should not be confused with the Masonic Order known as the Red Cross of Constantine.
Another interesting set of Orders.

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Originally Posted by edelweiss pirate (Post 1061081082)
The truth from Masons who are known for their lies?

I have only tried to tell the truth and hand out truth

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So no Multisync, your trolling and that of your mason brothers has no currency here.
One's "currency" should only be held by the facts that support their argument, not an opinion, assumption, myths, theories, or fallacies.

multisync 12-10-2012 10:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by edelweiss pirate (Post 1061081082)
The truth from Masons who are known for their lies?

We have seen this with Kadosh who will lie his way through a thread until pulled up by the facts, not that the facts will stop him though, he just keeps on going just ignoring or using semantics to twist facts to suit him.

So no Multisync, your trolling and that of your mason brothers has no currency here.

There were no semantics in my post as it was a straight forward rebuttal.

If you can post counter proof. Lodge, join date etc then let's see it here..Then I will submit to the error. Till that time I remain convinced he was not nor ever was a Freemason (under UGLE)


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