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-   -   Savile: freemason? (https://forum.davidicke.com/showthread.php?t=224323)

kadosh 12-10-2012 10:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by edelweiss pirate (Post 1061080550)
Wrong AGAIN.

The Knight of Malta is a degree of Templar freemasonry.

That's twice you've been proved wrong about freemasonry Kadosh.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Knights...r_(Freemasonry)

It is an Order and NOT a degree. You would not know the difference though. Anyway Saville was not a Freemason so could not have been a member of the Masonic KT (Order of Malta is part of this). The award he received was from The Pope and was a Vatican honour and has no connection to Freemasonry whatsoever.

You have your facts mixed up because you are unable to discern the differences. Trust me you have not proved be wrong at all. As I am a Mason I think I have the advantage on this.

kadosh 12-10-2012 10:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by edelweiss pirate (Post 1061081082)
The truth from Masons who are known for their lies?

We have seen this with Kadosh who will lie his way through a thread until pulled up by the facts, not that the facts will stop him though, he just keeps on going just ignoring or using semantics to twist facts to suit him.

I have provided facts and not lies. Unfortunately you are out of your depth on these Masonic matter.

kadosh 12-10-2012 10:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by screechy (Post 1061079169)
You have to be a freemason to join or asked to join so give pirate that, but its not under the grandlodge of England as alot of people seem to think, but for pirate it is in the same year book, right Kadosh?:o

The Masonic Order of Knights Templar & Malta are part of Freemasonry in England, Ireland and Scotland (three separate groups but all the same in practice) but they do not come under the control or authority of any Grand Lodge. They are independent but to become a member one must first of all be a Craft Freemason and a Christian as well and in addition they must also be a member of the Royal Arch Masons. Savile was not a member of any part of Freemasonry.

illuminumnuts 14-10-2012 02:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by welling (Post 1061076465)
Regardless of what many on here would love to be true, Jimmy Saville was never a member of any regular Freemasonic organisation.

I think welling was trying to tell us all something. God bless his soul. :(

kadosh 14-10-2012 03:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by welling (Post 1061076465)
Regardless of what many on here would love to be true, Jimmy Saville was never a member of any regular Freemasonic organisation.

I also doubt he was a member of any irregular, clandestine or quasi masonic society either. The various other KT groups (except the Masonic ones) are not related to Freemasonry.

the mighty zhiba 14-10-2012 04:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kadosh (Post 1061081595)
It is an Order and NOT a degree. You would not know the difference though. Anyway Saville was not a Freemason so could not have been a member of the Masonic KT (Order of Malta is part of this). The award he received was from The Pope and was a Vatican honour and has no connection to Freemasonry whatsoever.

You have your facts mixed up because you are unable to discern the differences. Trust me you have not proved be wrong at all. As I am a Mason I think I have the advantage on this.

Is there a list that we can check to verify this, or is it just on the word of yourself and others that we need to rely on?

Do lodges have a membership list from where the claims presented here can be verified or nullified (as the case may be)?

If not, then one corner arguing that SaVile was a mason, and another arguing that he was not is not going to get us very far, tbf.

I think that you can understand why some will not accept your explanations that SaVile was not a freemason, just as you will not accept their claims that he was: the argument is cyclic.

But, we can see that freemasonry does a lot for charity, as did SaVile, that freemasonry is an order populated by people who mix in socialite circles, which SaVile did, SaVile seems to tick all the boxes, yet we have no pictures of him in freemason regalia and at the same time no proof he was not.

Are lodges able to publish membership lists to refute the claims?

ksigmason 14-10-2012 11:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zhiba (Post 1061084076)
Is there a list that we can check to verify this, or is it just on the word of yourself and others that we need to rely on?

There are some reputable websites out there that list some of the more famous members of Freemasonry.

Quote:

Do lodges have a membership list from where the claims presented here can be verified or nullified (as the case may be)?
Lodges have membership rosters as does the Grand Lodge, but to release those records the Lodges and Grand Lodges would have to have permission from every member to release the names/information, but most people value their privacy so this would probably never happen.

Quote:

If not, then one corner arguing that SaVile was a mason, and another arguing that he was not is not going to get us very far, tbf.
This is why I say that I cannot say whether he is a Mason or not.

kadosh 15-10-2012 02:43 AM

If Sir James Savile, OBE, KCSG (31 October 1926 – 29 October 2011) had been a Freemason I am quite sure that information would have been included here:

vizier 15-10-2012 03:34 AM

How would a person like Savile, if he wasn't a freemason, get away with so much shit year on year?

I don't know much about freemasonry, but in layman's terms, they look after their own. Now considering, that probably a lot of the police and judiciary are freemasons and probably a lot of politicians also are.. then you'd expect people to make these observations..

If the allegations were known. Why was Savile let off so often?

ksigmason 15-10-2012 04:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vizier (Post 1061084893)
How would a person like Savile, if he wasn't a freemason, get away with so much shit year on year?

Are you inferring that Freemasons "get away with so much shit"?

Quote:

I don't know much about freemasonry, but in layman's terms, they look after their own. Now considering, that probably a lot of the police and judiciary are freemasons and probably a lot of politicians also are.. then you'd expect people to make these observations..
You sure are making a lot of accusations of nepotism, corruption, and cronyism based on what you say you don't know.

the mighty zhiba 15-10-2012 07:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ksigmason (Post 1061084705)
There are some reputable websites out there that list some of the more famous members of Freemasonry.


Lodges have membership rosters as does the Grand Lodge, but to release those records the Lodges and Grand Lodges would have to have permission from every member to release the names/information, but most people value their privacy so this would probably never happen.


This is why I say that I cannot say whether he is a Mason or not.

Thanks ksigmason

Quote:

Originally Posted by kadosh (Post 1061084870)
If Sir James Savile, OBE, KCSG (31 October 1926 – 29 October 2011) had been a Freemason I am quite sure that information would have been included here: Jimmy Savile - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Yes, because wiki is the sourse of all correct info lol :D

truthspoon 15-10-2012 08:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ksigmason (Post 1061084705)
This is why I say that I cannot say whether he is a Mason or not.


Yes, thanks indeed.

I admire your frankness and honesty in this instance.


The claim of some masons here that they know everything and everyone who is and isn't a mason, starts to wear a bit thin.

busa 15-10-2012 08:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ksigmason (Post 1061084705)
There are some reputable websites out there that list some of the more famous members of Freemasonry.


Lodges have membership rosters as does the Grand Lodge, but to release those records the Lodges and Grand Lodges would have to have permission from every member to release the names/information, but most people value their privacy so this would probably never happen.


This is why I say that I cannot say whether he is a Mason or not.

I found some reputable websites listing famous Masons that were dismissed on here as not being correct without any valid reason given.

The Masons don't seem to have any proof of who is or was a member, speaking objectively.

ksigmason 15-10-2012 03:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by edelweiss pirate (Post 1061085069)
The claim of some masons here that they know everything and everyone who is and isn't a mason, starts to wear a bit thin.

As a Mason I do have more ways of finding out, but I'd have to know what Grand Lodge he currently fell under (sometimes regardless of his current residence), but even then the Grand Lodge doesn't have to tell me. Quite often more well known people are easier to find out if they are Masons simply because of their exposure to media outlets and many Lodges like to showcase their more famous Masons.

When there is a claim that someone is a Mason I search as much as I can and can only ever say that I cannot find anything that supports the assertions (or vice versa).

Quote:

Originally Posted by busa (Post 1061085082)
I found some reputable websites listing famous Masons that were dismissed on here as not being correct without any valid reason given.

Examples?

kadosh 15-10-2012 05:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zhiba (Post 1061085042)
Yes, because wiki is the sourse of all correct info lol :D

You do not have to take my word that Savile was not a Mason. Write to the HQ in London of the United Grand Lodge of England and ask them the question.

welling 15-10-2012 06:15 PM

I know for a fact that Jimmy Savile was not, nor ever was a Freemason. Whether others choose to believe me or not is entirely up to them.

Some seem to be confused about his Papal Knighthood and the Masonic order, Knight of Malta. It is however, fairly easy to discover that the two things have no actual connection. If some want to believe there is, that is entirely their perogative.

To state however that he did alot of charity work and socialised in elite circles, therefore he could be, or probably was a Freemason is frankly ridiculous.:rolleyes:

It would appear that some posters on here are quite happy about employing similar tactics to the corrupt authorities and so called "power elite" that they tirelessly profess to detest.

Regardless of what any of us believe in, read, watch, or listen to, we should all strive for the truth, which, as I understand it, is also what David Icke himself believes.

truthspoon 15-10-2012 06:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by welling (Post 1061085765)
I know for a fact that Jimmy Savile was not, nor ever was a Freemason.

Bullshit. You can't know this.

It has been shown before that there are high degree lodges and lodges based on professions about which some have shown themselves entirely ignorant.


You're the last person on earth I would turn to for matters of freemasonry.

Ksigmason shows far more class than you.

He at least doesn't take us for utter mugs.

kadosh 15-10-2012 08:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by edelweiss pirate (Post 1061085848)
Bullshit. You can't know this.

You are wrong. As a matter of fact I do.

Quote:

Originally Posted by edelweiss pirate (Post 1061085848)
It has been shown before that there are high degree lodges and lodges based on professions about which some have shown themselves entirely ignorant.

But not me though!

Quote:

Originally Posted by edelweiss pirate (Post 1061085848)
You're the last person on earth I would turn to for matters of freemasonry.

No problem. Perhaps you cannot handle the facts when they are provided.

Quote:

Originally Posted by edelweiss pirate (Post 1061085848)
Ksigmason shows far more class than you.

He at least doesn't take us for utter mugs.

He has more patience than I do in dealing with all the rubbish that is posted concerning Freemasonry by those who are not members of the fraternity. It is often copy and paste misinformation that they have found. Most of the messages are simply 'fishing' exercises and unlike some I have no intention of providing complete details of every aspect of Freemasonry on the internet to all the inquiring minds of the profane (non Masons).

busa 15-10-2012 08:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ksigmason (Post 1061085491)
As a Mason I do have more ways of finding out, but I'd have to know what Grand Lodge he currently fell under (sometimes regardless of his current residence), but even then the Grand Lodge doesn't have to tell me. Quite often more well known people are easier to find out if they are Masons simply because of their exposure to media outlets and many Lodges like to showcase their more famous Masons.

When there is a claim that someone is a Mason I search as much as I can and can only ever say that I cannot find anything that supports the assertions (or vice versa).


Examples?

When we discussed which US presidents are or were Masons, if you remember? Keep up lad.

busa 15-10-2012 08:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kadosh (Post 1061085633)
You do not have to take my word that Savile was not a Mason. Write to the HQ in London of the United Grand Lodge of England and ask them the question.

They could not reveal that information under the Data Protection Act.


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