9/11 was there a plane ?

[Arnie]

24 minutes ago, peter said:

Ok fair enough we will have to agree to disagree,however if they are indeed what you say they are, what is causing the floors above the puffs of air to disintegrate and they are not just creating dust they are disintegrating, if as you say these floors are collapsing one on top of the other internally you would expect the outside shell to be still visible for a certain amount of time but this is not the case

 

It's obscurred by vast amounts of dust. The metalwork is not turning to dust and there is an enormous amount of it.

[Arnie]

27 minutes ago, TheConsultant said:

Rivers of molten metals. 

Anyone can provide rebuttal and science that backs the story, it was falsified for a reason. 

 

Slag. No, that wasn't an insult 

 

Impurities in Aluminum Alloy | Method of Controlling Molten Impurities (aluminiumceramicfiber.com)

[Arnie]

20 minutes ago, TheConsultant said:

• The structural engineer responsible for the design of the WTC purportedly described fires still burning and molten steel still running 21 days after the attacks (page 3)

• A retired professor of physics and atmospheric science said "in mid-October when they would pull out a steel beam, the lower part would be glowing dull red, which indicates a temperature on the order of 500 to 600 °C. And we know that people were turning over pieces of concrete in December that would flash into fire--which requires about 300 °C. So the surface of the pile cooled rather rapidly, but the bulk of the pile stayed hot all the way to December"

• The head of a team of scientists studying the potential health effects of 9/11, reported, "Fires are still actively burning and the smoke is very intense. In some pockets now being uncovered, they are finding molten steel"

• Hazardous materials experts also stated that, six weeks after 9/11, "There are pieces of steel being pulled out [from as far as six stories underground] that are still cherry red" and "the blaze is so 'far beyond a normal fire' that it is nearly impossible to draw conclusions about it based on other fires" (pay-per-view)

• An expert stated about World Trade Center building 7, "A combination of an uncontrolled fire and the structural damage might have been able to bring the building down, some engineers said. But that would not explain steel members in the debris pile that appear to have been PARTLY EVAPORATED in extraordinarily high temperatures" (pay-per-view). Note that evaporation means conversion from a liquid to a gas; so the steel beams in building 7 were subjected to temperatures high enough to melt and evaporate them

• According to reporter Christopher Bollyn, Mark Loizeaux, president the world's top demolition company, and Peter Tully, head of a large construction firm, said the following:

Tully told AFP that he had seen pools of “literally molten steel” in the rubble.

Loizeaux confirmed this: “Yes, hot spots of molten steel in the basements,” he said, “at the bottom of the elevator shafts of the main towers, down seven levels.”

The molten steel was found “three, four, and five weeks later, when the rubble was being removed,” he said. He confirmed that molten steel was also found at WTC 7, which mysteriously collapsed in the late afternoon.

Here's what eyewitness firefighters say:

• New York firefighters recalled in a documentary film, "heat so intense they encountered rivers of molten steel"

• A NY firefighter described molten steel flowing at ground zero, and said it was like a "foundry" or like "lava"

• According to a member of New York Air National Guard's 109th Air Wing, who was at Ground Zero from September 22 to October 6, "One fireman told us that there was still molten steel at the heart of the towers' remains. Firemen sprayed water to cool the debris down but the heat remained intense enough at the surface to melt their boots"

• As late as five months after the attacks, in February 2002, firefighter Joe O'Toole saw a steel beam being lifted from deep underground at Ground Zero, which, he says, "was dripping from the molten steel"

Here's what other eyewitnesses say:

• A public health advisor who arrived at Ground Zero on September 12, said that "feeling the heat" and "seeing the molten steel" there reminded him of a volcano

• An employee of New Jersey's Task Force One Urban Search and Rescue witnessed "Fires burn[ing and molten steel flow[ing] in the pile of ruins still settling beneath her feet"

• A reporter with rare access to the debris at ground zero "descended deep below street level to areas where underground fires still burned and steel flowed in molten streams"

• An Occupational Safety and Health Administration Officer at the Trade Center reported a fire truck 10 feet below the ground that was still burning two weeks after the Tower collapsed, "its metal so hot that it looked like a vat of molten steel"

• A witness said “In the first few weeks, sometimes when a worker would pull a steel beam from the wreckage, the end of the beam would be dripping molten steel”

• A NY Department of Sanitation spokeswoman said "for about two and a half months after the attacks, in addition to its regular duties, NYDS played a major role in debris removal - everything from molten steel beams to human remains..."

The fact that there was molten steel under ground zero for months after 9/11 is very odd, especially since firefighters sprayed millions of gallons of water on the fires and applied high-tech fire retardants.

 

Big difference between locked in metals forming the conditions to mimic a foundry and the presence of steel in the actual erect buildings. What is your point? btw, loads of those links are broken.

[TheConsultant]

 

5 minutes ago, Arnie said:

 

Big difference between locked in metals forming the conditions to mimic a foundry and the presence of steel in the actual erect buildings. What is your point? btw, loads of those links are broken.

If you are unable to follow my point which has been the same from the beginning of this discussion I and everyone else is clearly wasting their time discussing it with you at all. Having had interaction with you elsewhere it was clear then you didn't know what you were discussing either.

https://www.nist.gov/system/files/documents/2017/04/28/AE911Truth-NIST-Written-Submission12-18-07.pdf - molten steel mentioned throughout including analysis of the slag, showing signs of thermite compounds.

 

Edited September 17, 2022 by TheConsultant

[Arnie]

11 minutes ago, TheConsultant said:

If you are unable to follow my point which has been the same from the beginning of this discussion I and everyone else is clearly wasting their time discussing it with you at all.

 

Yeah, well that is just evasion. You point to "rivers of molten metal"  on the ground, days after the collapses. Now what exactly are you saying is the significance of this? What are you suggesting it proves? Steel cools quite quickly in air, thermite blows out really fast.

 

To me, you are just pointing at it and saying look, it must be suspicious for reasons.

 

11 minutes ago, TheConsultant said:

Having had interaction with you elsewhere it was clear then you didn't know what you were discussing either.

 

Whatever, that's just arm waving rhetoric. 

 

I missed even scant attention to this post, why is that?

https://forum.davidicke.com/index.php?/topic/9992-911-was-there-a-plane/&do=findComment&comment=447751

 

Edited September 17, 2022 by Arnie

[TheConsultant]

because like most of your posts (that I have read) it requires scant attention at best, not on here to waste my time.


 

[peter]

31 minutes ago, Arnie said:

It's obscurred by vast amounts of dust. The metalwork is not turning to dust and there is an enormous amount of it.

So what material was all the vast amounts of dust manufactured from and how,remember the floors are steel reinforced concrete and if they just pancaked as you say they wouldn't produce too much dust as they would mostly hold together so that amount of dust must be from another source then, if so what?

[Beaujangles]

2 hours ago, Arnie said:

 

And yet there were fires burning for most of the day and they all survived this? Extremely unlikely.

 

 

So, the claim is to get rid of these papers - rather than bundling them into a van at night, let the tower burn them completely (with maybe an assist with a few flame throwers) they in fact chose to detonate the tower and blow them all over the place, THEN spend hours making sure they had them all secure and sneak them offsite for something or other (destruction I presume).

 

Can you see any logic flaws here? I asked why they brought down WTC7, can anyone else supply a logical and workable reason?

 

 

I think the 'claim' is more a 'possibility'. 

 

As to why 'they' brought down WTC7 maybe the possibility is simply a distraction to make it look like hijackers had something against the US government.  Which is what the official narrative was/is wasnt it?

 

I think the passport BS was also to effect the same. I also think it strange that certain people were told not to go to work that day...and the circumstances re Silversteins insurance or similar was rather interesting iirc.

 

Have you ever posted on Websleuths Arnie??  You seem familiar in your stance in protecting narratives...and the name is the same... just wondering.

[webtrekker]

Let's not forget the 14 firemen who walked unscathed from the effects of a 110-story, half a million tons,  tower block 'collapsing' directly on top of them. What the hell do they make those firemen's helmets from?

 

 

 

[TheConsultant]

13 minutes ago, webtrekker said:

Let's not forget the 14 firemen who walked unscathed from the effects of a 110-story, half a million tons,  tower block 'collapsing' directly on top of them. What the hell do they make those firemen's helmets from?

 

 

 

Did they? :O

[webtrekker]

22 minutes ago, TheConsultant said:

Did they? :O

 

Apparently so ...

 

 

 

 

 

[Youknownothingbutyou]

2 hours ago, Morpheus said:

Exactly, the absurdity of it. But this guy's a regular know-it-all, so it does surprise me you're giving this energy vampire any attention at all. 

 

They're trying to convince you that what you see with your own eyes is a lie.

Its basic math

2 planes cannot make 3 tower fall in 7 seconds

 

those trolls are just pathetic

Edited September 17, 2022 by Youknownothingbutyou

[Nemuri Kyoshiro]

35 minutes ago, Youknownothingbutyou said:

2 planes cannot make 3 tower fall in 7 seconds

Can't make building 7 fall down either.

[webtrekker]

Nothing to see here ...

 

 

 

 

[Macnamara]

4 hours ago, Macnamara said:

Accounts say that certain lifts were not in use prior to the attacks and it is very possible that mossad teams, with the permission of larry silverstein, entered those lift shafts and other service channels and pre-placed the necessary charges

Eyewitness Scott Forbes: mysterious contractors in World Trade Center pre-9/11 weekend 'power down'

 

[zArk]

1 minute ago, webtrekker said:

Nothing to see here ...

 

 

 

 

propa clean job which multiple agencys and people gained from

keeping loads of important people happy made for a job to benefit all

not to mention the clean up job , shipping it all off to China (ultimate two fingers)

a completely controlled crime scene from early A.M 9/11 to days after

 

the clintons/socialists/commies must have been completely pissed off their 'buildings blown up' reason for martial law was thwarted

and the likes of Bush, Cheyney, Rumsfeld and Giuliani managing the 'aeroplanes did it' cover story got the Patriot Act and a big war.

 

[webtrekker]

 

 

 

 

 

[webtrekker]

Then, of course, there was the 'Spire' ...

 

 

 

 

[webtrekker]

We don't know the 'half' of it! ...

 

 

 

 

 

[webtrekker]

Steel turning to Steel Dust ...

 

 

 

 

[Edgewood]

53 minutes ago, webtrekker said:

We don't know the 'half' of it! ...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I wonder what those 'art students' were packing the building with....

 

 

https://theirishsentinel.com/2021/09/15/world-trade-centers-infamous-91st-floor-israeli-art-student-project/

Edited September 17, 2022 by Edgewood

[Arnie]

3 hours ago, peter said:

 if they just pancaked as you say they wouldn't produce too much dust as they would mostly hold together

 

False. Why would they hold together with millions of tons hitting them at 100+mph?

[Arnie]

44 minutes ago, Edgewood said:

I wonder what those 'art students' were packing the building with....

 

 

https://theirishsentinel.com/2021/09/15/world-trade-centers-infamous-91st-floor-israeli-art-student-project/

 

We covered this 3 pages back - they are Austrian:

https://www.gelitin.net/projects/b-thing/

References

• Kahn, Meredith (2005-11-06). "Directions: Big, Dead, Rotting, Silly Rabbit". New York Times. Retrieved 2009-04-17.
• Castellini, Luisa (2005-09-02). "Ad Artesina arriva Pink Rabbit, il coniglio rosa più grande del mondo" (in Italian). il Giornale. Retrieved 2009-04-17.
• Davis, Ben. "Raging Within the Machine". artnet magazine. Retrieved 2009-04-17.
• Dewan, Shaila (August 18, 2001). "Balcony scene (or unseen) atop the world;episode at trade center assumes mythic qualities". The New York Times (Metro section).
• Rubinowitz, Tex (2001). Gelatin: The B-Thing. ISBN 978-3883755076.
• Amazon listing for The B-Thing
• Angelopoulou, Sofia Lekka (2018-06-19). "gelitin invites visitors to walk around giant turds in latest exhibition 'vorm - fellows - attitude'". Designboom.
• "Artists erect giant pink bunny on mountain". Ananova. Archived from the original on 2005-09-24.
• Pictures Archived 2007-09-29 at the Wayback Machine, gelitin.net.

 

[Arnie]

3 hours ago, TheConsultant said:

because like most of your posts (that I have read) it requires scant attention at best, not on here to waste my time.

 

Nice evasion. Mick West explains how the evidence for thermite is not conclusive at all , since dozens of other things produce the same result.

[Edgewood]

16 minutes ago, Arnie said:

 

We covered this 3 pages back - they are Austrian:

https://www.gelitin.net/projects/b-thing/

References

• Kahn, Meredith (2005-11-06). "Directions: Big, Dead, Rotting, Silly Rabbit". New York Times. Retrieved 2009-04-17.
• Castellini, Luisa (2005-09-02). "Ad Artesina arriva Pink Rabbit, il coniglio rosa più grande del mondo" (in Italian). il Giornale. Retrieved 2009-04-17.
• Davis, Ben. "Raging Within the Machine". artnet magazine. Retrieved 2009-04-17.
• Dewan, Shaila (August 18, 2001). "Balcony scene (or unseen) atop the world;episode at trade center assumes mythic qualities". The New York Times (Metro section).
• Rubinowitz, Tex (2001). Gelatin: The B-Thing. ISBN 978-3883755076.
• Amazon listing for The B-Thing
• Angelopoulou, Sofia Lekka (2018-06-19). "gelitin invites visitors to walk around giant turds in latest exhibition 'vorm - fellows - attitude'". Designboom.
• "Artists erect giant pink bunny on mountain". Ananova. Archived from the original on 2005-09-24.
• Pictures Archived 2007-09-29 at the Wayback Machine, gelitin.net.

 

 

 

Be wary that history is continually being rewritten....Those sources are also long after the fact.... not hard to invent a cover story, especially for something of this magnitude. 

 

 

 

 

Don't you also think that an art collective calling itself Gelatin......... as in gelignite....and blowing up the towers is just the kind of revelation of the method that the Illuminati are so well known for.

 

QUOTE:

 

Willie Rodriguez, one of the janitors who worked at the WTC and helped save lives that day, was the last person pulled from the rubble and was even recognized by the president for his actions. Aside from experiencing basement and sub-level explosions on 9/11 before the 1st plane hit, he also stated that he did see the art students in the WTC in an email exchange I had with him. So why is all this information about an innocent art stunt so important, aside from the fact that these individuals had WTC construction passes in 2000 before releasing their book in August of 2001? Because according to the DEA report on the investigation into a separate story of art students in the country penetrating military bases, government agencies and so fourth as a part of a spy ring, 2 names show up in the arrests of over 140 spies that sparked interest for me. Hanan Serfaty was arrested by DEA agents in connection to the Israeli spy ring. What makes him stand out, is that he was listed as being an art student who was apart of the World Views program, which was in the World Trade Center on floors 90 and 91 in the Lower Manhatten Cultural Council. Although he is not listed by Gelitin as a member of The B-Thing, the listing of the identities of the other 14 students who were on floor 91 at the time was never released to the public, neither was the total list of those involved in the stunt which numbers at a minimum of 6. It should be noted that 1 member of the Lower Manhattan Cultural Council died on 9/11 while working in his studio on the 91st floor. His name appears on the list of those who were in the building when it came down. Hanan was an "art student" who was a former Israeli military intelligence officer who rented two Hollywood apartments close to the mail drop and apartment of Mohammed Atta and four other hijackers. Serfaty was moving large amounts of cash: he carried bank slips showing more than $100,000 deposited from December 2000 through the first quarter of 2001; other bank slips showed withdrawals for about $80,000 during the same period. Serfaty's apartments, serving as crash pads for at least two other "art students", were located at 4220 Sheridan Street and 701 South 21st Avenue. Lead hijacker Mohammed Atta's mail drop was at 3389 Sheridan Street--approximately 2,700 feet from Serfaty's Sheridan Street apartment. Both Atta and Marwan al-Shehhi, the suicide pilot on United Airlines Flight 175, which smashed into World Trade Center 2, lived in a rented apartment at 1818 Jackson Street, some 1,800 feet from Serfaty's South 21st Avenue apartment. In fact, an improbable series of coincidences emerges from a close reading of the 2001 DEA memo, the 9/11 Commission's staff statements and final report, FBI and Justice Department watch lists, hijacker timelines compiled by major media and statements by local, state and federal law enforcement personnel. In at least six urban centers, suspected Israeli spies and 9/11 hijackers and/or al-Qaeda¬ connected suspects lived and operated near one another, in some cases less than half a mile apart, for various periods during 2001 in the run-up to the attacks. In addition to northern New Jersey and Hollywood, Florida, these centers included Arlington and Fredericksburg, Virginia; Atlanta; Oklahoma City; Los Angeles; and San Diego. Israeli "art students" also lived close to terror suspects in and around Dallas, Texas. A 25-year-old "art student" named Michael Calmanovic, arrested and questioned by Texas-based DEA officers in April 2001, maintained a mail drop at 3575 North Beltline Road, less than a thousand feet from the 4045 North Beltline Road apartment of Ahmed Khalefa, an FBI terror suspect. Dallas and its environs, especially the town of Richardson, Texas, throbbed with "art student" activity. Richardson is notable as the home of the Holy Land Foundation, an Islamic charity designated as a terrorist funder by the European Union and U.S. government in December 2001. Sources in 2002 told The Forward, in a report unrelated to the question of the "art students", that "Israeli intelligence played a key role in helping the Bush administration to crack down on Islamic charities suspected of funneling money to terrorist groups, most notably the Richardson, Texas-based Holy Land Foundation, last December [2001]". It's plausible that the intelligence prompting the shutdown of the Holy Land Foundation came from "art student" spies in the Richardson area. Thanks to CoreOfCorruption.com

Edited September 17, 2022 by Edgewood