Impossible to prove God/paranormal to skeptics?

[linenum]

From:
https://www.lifesplayer.com/bible.php

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I think ALL evidence of God and the paranormal can be explained by skeptics as coincidence, delusion, or hallucinations. Or involve fraud such as magic tricks. As "God" in Futurama explains, "When you [God] do things right, people won't be sure you've done anything at all".

I think God doesn't want to be obvious.... though I currently think most of the Bible isn't historical, a relevant verse is John 6:44a - "No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws them"

Currently I believe in an intelligent force that is part of a computer game but skeptics would say my experiences just involve coincidences...

 

e.g.
".....I wanted to annoy God so I was reading a Gideon's Bible upside-down then soon after I was given my own sealed Bible - inside it was upside-down!..."

 

 

In the science fiction comedy "The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy", the answer to "The Ultimate Question of Life, the Universe, and Everything" took millions of years for a supercomputer to calculate - and it was 42.

While in a mental ward I realised that Connect 4 sets also involve 42 pieces. This special set was the first time I'd ever tried counting the pieces. There were exactly 42 pieces but there should be 21 pieces of each color because it is possible to have a tied game. I think "God" (an intelligent force) might have a sense of humor. It seems my life is not as balanced as it should be.

 

[serpentine]

On 9/14/2020 at 5:34 AM, linenum said:

..I think God doesn't want to be obvious.... though I currently think most of the Bible isn't historical, a relevant verse is John 6:44a - "No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws them"

 

 

Like many ancients texts of it's ilk it's certainly got a fair share of wisdom within it's pages but when that wisdom isn't seen in the context of the time it was written the human tendency is often to take the text too literally.

 

 

 

[linenum]

6 minutes ago, serpentine said:

 

Like many ancients texts of it's ilk it's certainly got a fair share of wisdom within it's pages but when that wisdom isn't seen in the context of the time it was written the human tendency is often to take the text too literally.

 

 

 

Yeah taking it literally is one option.... that the sun, moon and stars were literally created one day after the plants...

[alexa]

On 9/14/2020 at 5:34 AM, linenum said:

.....I wanted to annoy God so I was reading a Gideon's Bible upside-down then soon after I was given my own sealed Bible - inside it was upside-down!..."

 

WOW, that'll teach you to try to annoy God 

[rideforever]

God does not seem to be arriving anytime soon to fix anything that's for sure.

But then again people never really read the words on the page that never really said he would anyway.

You can read texts at many levels but in general they are supposed to trigger a higher part of your intelligence to come forth, otherwise ... they are read by the ego self which can only make limited sense of them.

If we look at human life ... does it make sense?  Civilizations rise and fall.  People live waiting for death without any evasive action.  Does that really make any sense ?
 

But yeah from the OP's original point ... it is nigh on impossible to talk about something spiritual with non spiritual people ... and even with 'spiritual people' ... because spirituality imo rides ontop of a sane human life, and many people's human life isn't even sane.  Each to his own anyway.

Edited September 15, 2020 by rideforever

[Michi713]

42 as well as some other numbers:  the secret does not lie in the digits that add up to them but in multiplying, then adding and reducing the digits.  

There you will find the sacred numbers to which you can apply to the whole of the universe in all directions and time, the working of the human brain, and now, how AI is being designed.  There are the sacred numbers then there are others that are used as “weights.”

 

Ancient people had a grasp on this, which is how they were able to predict cosmic events that modern scientists have no clue.  Tesla had a grasp on the numbers as well as other genius folks through time.  They understood the numbers but didn’t invent them!!

 

Stupids like myself may not be able to split and forever dissect reality.  Atheistic, materialist scientists can, but never come to the point of humbling themselves before what is hugely greater than themselves.  They look at the sacred numbers, at nature and the cosmos as “just cool phenomena.”   They split the sciences into subcategories just as they split reality instead of considering the uniting factors. 

 

They won’t allow themselves to to really see because if they did they would have to admit their artificial constructed “self” doesn’t amount to much at all.  

 

So they go along buying and selling and being bought and sold and will never amount to anything close to the real great scientific innovators and thinkers.  They are their own worst enemies. 

Stupids like myself didn’t come to the numbers by books, but by dreams and divine intervention and being open to attempt to understand, and to realize that we will err a lot and will never be able to fully comprehend the mind of God.  

[Michi713]

Why do atheists use the dumbest arguments to disqualify Christianity?  (Oh what about the dinosaurs, etc.)  They can only see through a materialistic lens because that defines everything in their world.  

 

Same reason children in elementary school are taught about Alexander Graham Bell and Thomas Edison but not Tesla.  Same reason students come out of math class asking their parents “why?” And their parents can’t answer them.  

Same reason English teachers give their students meaningless texts to read and have them identify prepositions and participles and test them on that. 

 

It’s like the TV journalist interviewing the dumbest eye witness to the crime.  And why a parent would question bringing a child to church yet raise their child in front of a TV from the day it’s born.

[Bombadil]

Because there is no evidence of a god or higher power.

 

[linenum]

4 hours ago, Michi713 said:

42 as well as some other numbers:  the secret does not lie in the digits that add up to them but in multiplying, then adding and reducing the digits. ...

Well 42 is 6 x 7.... 6 is the number of man, 7 is the number of God... so maybe the meaning of life involves man and God....

[Michi713]

2 hours ago, Bombadil said:

Because there is no evidence of a god or higher power.

 

There’s also no evidence there is not a higher power.

 

Aside:

 

And damnit why are school children not taught how to take apart a radio, a TV, or even a coffee maker, taught the components and how they work?  So generations can be mystified by the endless distraction of magical gadgets,  set the gadgets and their makers above themselves and worship that. 

 

 

Edited September 15, 2020 by Michi713

[Michi713]

1 hour ago, linenum said:

Well 42 is 6 x 7.... 6 is the number of man, 7 is the number of God... so maybe the meaning of life involves man and God....

Yes interesting.  I’m trying to figure this out with limited intellect.   Interesting you say 6 is man and 7 is the number of God.

 

From the book Signs and Symbols:

 

“6 - universal harmony, stability, balance in relationship to the hexagon and the Star of David, which combines the union of the triangles of fire and water.  In Christianity six is ambivalent: it is sacred because God created the world in 6 days but also identifies it as the number of evil.”

 

“7  - Because the number 7 combines the ternary and quaternary - heaven or divinity and earth and mankind - it unifies the macrocosm and microcosm and signifies cosmic order.  In the Bible the septernary represents entirety and governs time and space.” 

Aside:  

 

In one dream involving numbers a terrible demonic monster was attacking me.  I threw something at him, it landed on his forehead it was three nines in an upside down triangle.  Why this happened I wish I knew, but nine is something special. 

 

[linenum]

6 hours ago, Bombadil said:

Because there is no evidence of a god or higher power.

 

Well I used to take the Bible literally and believed the universe was created in six days.... Like some other creationists I went straight to atheism. It's a long story but eventually I came to believe in an intelligent force and like Elon Musk I think I'm probably in a video game.

 

[Bombadil]

There might not be evidence that there is not a higher power, agreed. But if there is no evidence you can’t just make stuff up to fill lack of knowledge or understanding. There has to be a minimum amount of study on any subject, otherwise you end up with people believing the earth is flat, even when every method of research available to mankind, Plus new methods developed daily, are dismissed out of hand.

Ignorance is based upon lack of education and closed mindedness. For me religion was invented by opportunistic people profiting out of others fear and misery. Just like corona virus.

[linenum]

38 minutes ago, Bombadil said:

There might not be evidence that there is not a higher power, agreed. But if there is no evidence you can’t just make stuff up to fill lack of knowledge or understanding....

Well part of the foundation is the simulation hypothesis... if this is a video game then an intelligent force exists - but I believe that the intelligent force's existence can't be proven to skeptics... I'm working on the theory why but it the title of this thread ... I think David Icke also believes in a simulation.

 

"...the games will become indistinguishable from reality. ...there would probably be billions of such computers and set-top boxes. ...it would seem to follow that the odds that we're in base reality [NOT a simulation] is one in billions" - Elon Musk , an engineer worth about $100 billion....

 

 

Edited September 16, 2020 by linenum

[Bombadil]

I actually believe in the simulation hypothesis. Have for about twenty years. A power behind a simulation does not necessary need to be divine by default. Not all sceptics are unreachable and believe I am NOT a sceptic. The people who are unreachable are in my opinion generally the most religiously devout. If years of exposed pedophilia, profiteering and hypocrisy won’t sway people nothing will.

I also have the belief in the possibility that we are a.i robots. In my mind the ultimate robot would be indistinguishable from their makers. Unless intentionally different for control purposes. Stands to reason that eventually robots will receive more and more biological parts. The machine as humans are, would be capable of thought, decision making and developmental skills. Could explain early humans as just earlier models. Human being v1.1 etc. Just a rambling though!

[linenum]

34 minutes ago, Bombadil said:

I actually believe in the simulation hypothesis. Have for about twenty years. A power behind a simulation does not necessary need to be divine by default.

I thought you could call the power behind a simulation a "higher power". They aren't necessarily perfect though. They would probably be AI-enhanced so could be aware of far more things than we are (we can only be aware of several chunks at once). Was David Icke influential in your belief in a simulation?

 

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Not all sceptics are unreachable and believe I am NOT a sceptic. The people who are unreachable are in my opinion generally the most religiously devout. If years of exposed pedophilia, profiteering and hypocrisy won’t sway people nothing will.

In the "Bible Test" page one option is to believe the Bible is 100% true and moral no matter what (with a child-like faith)

 

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I also have the belief in the possibility that we are a.i robots. In my mind the ultimate robot would be indistinguishable from their makers. Unless intentionally different for control purposes. Stands to reason that eventually robots will receive more and more biological parts. The machine as humans are, would be capable of thought, decision making and developmental skills. Could explain early humans as just earlier models. Human being v1.1 etc. Just a rambling though!

I think the intelligences behind our simulation would have huge amounts of "working memory" so we are far more limited than they are. But for now we don't really know much about what is beyond the simulation.... perhaps some memory of our former identity would return....

 

Edited September 16, 2020 by linenum

[rideforever]

It's taken me a long time to work out that people who talk about religion, know absolutely nothing about it.  This world is godless, it is a world of opinions and opinions of opinions.  Opinions are a currency, both for society and also for your own self-image.

All spirituality requires practices, mostly body-based practices.  And the only good spirituality is one where the practices lead you into the light.  That is the only determiner.  Everything else, the leaders, the corruption, the sexual depravity, the violence, the insincerity ... it just doesn't matter at all.

Because human life is full of violence and delusions, full of tremendously proud voices and endlessly repeated the collapses of the past.  And then after the sound and fury, everybody young and old, the children, the kings, the losers, the nobodies, everyone is thrown into a hole and nobody will remember you after 5 days.  The cult of this world is very strong, it's like a black hole.

So, the only single thing that counts is if there is a way to do something that changes this equation.

When the shit hits the fan the only church left will be the Catholic church for the simple reason that they do many body-based practices and beyond all the bullshit advertising fucke up popes and whatever ... their practices work.  And the people there know it.

And there are other traditions, even including modern ones like psychotherapy that can also take you out.

Science as it should be can also take you out, but science has to mean internal contact with the truth, not an 'expert industry' of empty theories and material fetishism.  Science once upon a time was religion by other means.  Crazy world.

Edited September 16, 2020 by rideforever

[Michi713]

God does not have the burden of proof.  

 

“Do not conform any longer to the pattern of this world, but be renewed by the transforming of your mind.  Then you will be able to test and approve what God’s will is - his good, pleasing and perfect will.”  Romans 12:2

 

If you cut yourself you bleed.  If you fall off of a building you die.  You don’t get up like  Super Mario Bro’s. 

 

I don’t know why I care.  I guess it’s because I turned my back on God and Jesus my entire life and went on my own steam, deluded and materialistic, not realizing I don’t have to live like that.  

 

It’s good to be brave, but it takes bravery to admit you’re just a little human and you need guidance.  God and Jesus gave the unfathomable sacrifice so we can have solace in their love.  I can’t even bring myself to imagine what it would be like to give my son, my baby away as a sacrifice.  

 

If you can’t comprehend that concept I understand.  There may be some other way to attain that state of surrender for you, maybe through another tradition.  That’s all it is in the Bible is a whole bunch of good wisdom to get your head right!  Why dwell on goofy stuff when there is pure gold in there.  

 

This digitized, fanciful, I’m a warrior in the matrix is just more manmade crap, no more useful than an Apple Watch.  And denying you’re flesh and blood come out of this world.  

 

I was scared I wouldn’t  be myself if I went to Christianity.  That it would make me some other person.  It doesn’t I’m still an asshole.  

[Michi713]

7 hours ago, rideforever said:

 

And there are other traditions, even including modern ones like psychotherapy that can also take you out.

 

IIIII dunno but psychotherapy is relying on another flawed human’s analysis of what they think you’re about.  And creates a dependence on that person mainly to fill an egotistical urge to dribble on about yourself, while the therapist pretends to care for 100 bucks an hour. 

[rideforever]

17 minutes ago, Michi713 said:

And creates a dependence on that person mainly to fill an egotistical urge to dribble on about yourself, while the therapist pretends to care for 100 bucks an hour.

 

Yes .. but I'm not talking about that stuff.
Inner Bonding is what I'm talking about, it's powerful and spiritual.
Also "Parts Work" is very good.
 

 

[linenum]

6 hours ago, Michi713 said:

....This digitized, fanciful, I’m a warrior in the matrix is just more manmade crap, no more useful than an Apple Watch.  And denying you’re flesh and blood come out of this world.....

The simulation hypothesis explains why there could be an intelligent force that can interact with people... if our world is just physical then there doesn't seem to be any supernatural realm...

[Michi713]

1 hour ago, linenum said:

The simulation hypothesis explains why there could be an intelligent force that can interact with people... if our world is just physical then there doesn't seem to be any supernatural realm...

Ok looked up the simulation and trying to understand where y’all are coming from.  It would be shitty to dismiss your beliefs as goofy nonsense without attempting to get it.  

Honest questions:  

 

Does AI run the simulation universes?  

If they do, for what purpose do we exist, for their entertainment?  Kind of like God creating us in his image to make him happy? 
 

Are we fulfilling the purpose the creators of the simulation intended or are we messing it up? 
 

Does anything, does our life matter within this paradigm?
 

 

[linenum]

2 hours ago, Michi713 said:

....Does AI run the simulation universes?  

I think so....

 

 

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If they do, for what purpose do we exist, for their entertainment?  Kind of like God creating us in his image to make him happy? 

I think the following quote from Alan Watts is relevant (replace "dream" with "play a video game").

 

let’s suppose that you were able every night to dream any dream you wanted to dream, and that you could, for example, have the power within one night to dream 75 years of time, or any length of time you wanted to have.

And you would, naturally, as you began on this adventure of dreams, you would fulfill all your wishes. You would have every kind of pleasure you could conceive. And after several nights of 75 years of total pleasure each you would say “Well that was pretty great. But now let’s have a surprise, let’s have a dream which isn’t under control, where something is gonna happen to me that I don’t know what it's gonna be."

And you would dig that and would come out of that and you would say “Wow that was a close shave, wasn’t it?”. Then you would get more and more adventurous and you would make further- and further-out gambles what you would dream. And finally, you would dream where you are now. You would dream the dream of living the life that you are actually living today.

 

Alan Watts is saying that we originally were "God" (or had god-like abilities - to create any video game experience) but then we eventually gave up more and more of our abilities and self-awareness....

 

Checkout 24 seconds into this video - it is about a video game based on a somewhat normal person... When the game ends they remember their original identity...

 

 

 

 

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Are we fulfilling the purpose the creators of the simulation intended or are we messing it up? 
 

Does anything, does our life matter within this paradigm?

 

I don't have clear answers to your questions but I think it involves part entertainment and part personal growth or some other serious purpose.

Edited September 17, 2020 by linenum

[linenum]

I think this site is pretty good.... I'm going to try and learn from it...

 

Life Is a Video Game—Here Are the Cheat Codes

 

I'm not sure whether he talks about what happens after your life... after all I guess I can't be sure there is an after life....

 

I like how he says about how bad life can be.... there are a lot of famous thinkers that say things like "life is suffering", etc. He is very insightful.

Edited September 17, 2020 by linenum

[rideforever]

A soul is internalised personal consciousness this is when the Infinite Consciousness has become fused into an individuated being.  This being becomes after a very long time something like a microcosm of the entirety of existence.  The energy of all of existence has become fused, within the vehicle of the human psycho-somatic organism.  And when that body breaks, it remains as part of existence.

This is a soul, it is somebody who has something inside of them.

 

As the media, eye candy, stress and distractions become monumental ... an average person totally loses anything inside, he is so much outside, fighting the endless threatening outside, or his attention is endless directed outwards to the internet excitement, the media sensations ... that there is no longer any sense of the outside.

All the energy points outside, and flows outside, and the soul slowly leaks out and is finally dead.

Then you are left with a soulless human person who has nothing inside.

In this state, feeling nothing inside, you may believe that you are not real or you are a simulation or in a simulation.

Because the inner part of you has died, or is in the process of dying.

 

A real person, a person with a soul, does not think he is a simulation simply because he feels himself inside.

What is called "transhumanism" is nothing about progress of humanity ... it is simply a person who's soul energy is leaking outside into the endless noisy world, assisted by technology stuck on the body, that drains the soul outwards until it is fully dead.

Such a person is suffering so desperately that he resorts to dark activities grasping for any solution whatsoever.

Eventually even the suffering becomes numb and this person walking around with google glass or implants ... is the definition of hell, a soul that not only did not form properly, but is fully parasited and is the living dead.  Dead, but not dead because all the soul energy is endlessly drained with the assistance of all the other people around you and the machines in your body.
When this comes to path certainly god will destroy this planet because nothing further useful can come of it.