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Grenfell Inquiry.

Albion

By Albion
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Albion

Albion

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Anyone following this inquiry? Absolutely appalling that the local council and national government were so subservient to the interests of the corporations involved. The crimes of the powerful usually remain shrouded in red tape as we all know so I'd be surprised if anyone responsible for this is actually held to account. And the tabloid media seem more concerned with turning the narrative towards the so called "Grenfell spongers" rather than focusing on the people responsible for the tragedy. The whole thing stinks.

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kj35

kj35

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Hmm. Interesting point about the council wanting the land back. They should be made to rebuild a state of the art residential block. All survivors to be given rent free homes for life. 

 

I have a lot of expertise in fire blocks ..spread..protection and construction and am waiting to see what the inquiry shows.  But I can tell you this...an office block or hotel of that size would have had as a minimum an l1 life safety fire alarm tested and signalling  direct to the brigade. More preferably sprinklers would protect communal areas. The advice to stay put was correct when this was purely a concrete structure. Obviously not once cladded. High rise fire modelling always assumes fire spread through building glazing as the concrete floors give a 2 to 4 hour fire break enough to escape and get brigades out. Glazing breaks under heat and spreads the fire by bouncing back into the building through adjoining glazing. Without the cladding should have taken out only a handful of flats via that vertical and lateral spread. Combustible cladding would not be allowed by people who know what they were talking about....if present an immediate 100 % recasting loss would be predicted. This was a known industry construction hazard...not an anomaly.But this cladding was allowed under building regs...but most architects bankers and underwriters effectively keep it at bay by making such buildings in a commercial setting uninsurable. That obviously didnt apply to social housing and, I believe student housing. 

 

Edited by kj35
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Morpheus

Morpheus

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Not surprised, the government and the media did the same hatchet job on Liverpool fans after Hillsborough. It's disgusting, the people who built and own that building should be sued into oblivion and held accountable for their poor upkeep of Grenfell. All this is the gentrification of London and it appears to me this was the underlying agenda on this situation. 

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rideforever

rideforever

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450 buildings around the country have Grenfell cladding.

It points to ... nobody really being responsible.

 

So they use cheap plastic cladding, what was it plastic and aluminium ... the cheapest shittest materials on the planet.

These days many frying pans are aluminium ... it gives you Alzheimer's the aluminium does.

But if you want Stainless Steel you will have to hunt for it and pay triple.

And that's the cost of staying safe.

If they give it to you for free you can be sure it's total shit and will probably kill you.

 

I see people who buy special "recycled" plastic cups to put coffee in.  Retarded.

Plastic cups if you put hot drinks in them, the plastic softens and melts a bit so you drink the plastic down your throat with the coffee.  You should never put anything hot in a plastic cup or bowl.
But many people do.
Plastic everything these days.  Plastic brains too.

 

Brighton Council Experience

In Brighton there was a contract to paint and repair the seafront railings ... I think they paid £250,000 /year.  And watching the "workmen" they do the shittest slowest job.  It was a complete rip off.  And everything the council does is a total ripoff.

Councils are a gravy train for contractors.

In Brighton the Planning Department was even taken wining and dinning in the South of France by one of the local contractors.

That was about 5 years ago ...and the next year the Planning Department at the council gave planning permission for a bunch of expensive flat complexes to be built in the area, by that same contractor who will now make millions out of the new buildings.

It's the same old shit.

This is the problem with the public sector ... and the rule is that unless you are looking after your own money, ripoffs will happen.

The local council provides housing for other people with the money of Central Government, and it's like everybody is working with somebody else's money.

Not good.

It's all so goddam corrupt.

There is no hope for justice in this world, it's useless to demand  it.

These people aren't capable of it.

You just get moron politicians apologize and then some other disaster happens next time.

Best bet is to take very good care, and watch yourself.

Edited by rideforever
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Moonlight

Moonlight

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I followed the case a little bit cause I know someone that knew someone that lived there

it is this claddings that are burning like straw.....it´s Styropor...these kind of claddings are everywhere in every country
my brother is a fireworker and he said that he has never seen such a thing and the fireworkers that came to this fire said the same in a video.....the fire spread so fast

maybe the conpiracy is where the fire broke out (in some kitchen) and that there were no escape ways
 

do not move in a house where you can not jump off

 

🙂

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kj35

kj35

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26 minutes ago, Moonlight said:

I followed the case a little bit cause I know someone that knew someone that lived there

it is this claddings that are burning like straw.....it´s Styropor...these kind of claddings are everywhere in every country
my brother is a fireworker and he said that he has never seen such a thing and the fireworkers that came to this fire said the same in a video.....the fire spread so fast

maybe the conpiracy is where the fire broke out (in some kitchen) and that there were no escape ways
 

do not move in a house where you can not jump off

 

🙂

They are in a lot of buildings but not in what would be classed as a high value building ( mostly as I said financial implications can stop it BUT...some slip through as again building regulations allow it)as their presence creates an immediate 100% loss in a fire situation and most people would want a cap at around a 50 million £ loss. Of equal concern is that a lot of hotels and apartment blocks are built of modular construction and although they look like brick from external viewing are (or can be)  actually timber with thin slivers of pretend bricks for aesthetics. You can't tell unless you drill a hole through the wall (Which owners frown on...) or have the original building reg drawings.I'm talking about UK construction regs. Worldwide construction regs vary massively and not usually for the better.

Edited by kj35
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Moonlight

Moonlight

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8 minutes ago, kj35 said:

They are in a lot of buildings but not in what would be classed as a high value building ( mostly ...some slip through as again building regulations allow it)as their presence creates an immediate 100% loss in a fire situation and most people would want a cap at around a 50 million £ loss. Of equal concern is that a lot of hotels and apartment blocks are built of modular construction and although they look like brick from external viewing are actually timber with thin slivers of pretend bricks for aesthetics. I'm talking about UK construction regs. Worldwide construction regs vary massively and not usually for the better.

 

in Germany where I live many new buildings are covered with this.....it´s because of energy saving rules
most buildings are not so high....but after Grenfell there were discussions in Germany to change the law for this kind of claddings

 

🙂

Edited by Moonlight
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kj35

kj35

Posted
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12 minutes ago, Moonlight said:

 

in Germany where I live many new buildings are covered with this.....it´s because of engery saving rules
most buildings are not so high ... but after Grenfell there were discussions in Germany to change the law for this kind of claddings

 

🙂

Not all cladding is combustible...some are plain polystyrene...and you'd have to be a psycho to use it as it's MEGA combustible ..ranging through to mineral wool / rockwool which is very safe. These are just cladding though on an exterior wall of hopefully concrete or brick.

 Some buildings are actually CONSTRUCTED from combustible  composite panels.. so would not even have brick or concrete layers to protect you. These are mostly industrial warehouses or food warehouses built to keep foods cold inside...ok if they are kept as that...cold storage but the danger is they get sold and occupancy changes to say a crisp manufacturer with frying lines.  An extreme example. To illustrate a point.

Edited by kj35
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kj35

kj35

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43 minutes ago, Moonlight said:

Styropor is dangerous for cladding

 

🙂

1200x675.jpg

186311_1_org_image_a0f93821ccfaf3301b89235fcf4c49c5.jpg

It is indeed.  I believe that's a brand name? It's a polystyrene cladding 

They go from most combustible to least/non combustible in this order

Polystyrene; polyurethane (pur); polyisocyanurate (pir); mineral wool.

Also same order for cheapest to most expensive. 

I've read different reports of what the cladding was that was used and it's this area I'm waiting on the inquiry for. Also whether the cladding was faulty in some way .... Which, without boring everyone as I go all techy.. can make the fire spread even faster through damaged panels.

 

 

Edited by kj35
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rideforever

rideforever

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This year a neighbour re-did his flat roof.  The builders did not use the usual torch on rolls of asphalt, they used fibre glass which sounds fancy but is actually a technique for idiots with no skill.  It requires zero skill to do, that's the attractiveness for builders.  You can be a total monkey and still do a fibreglass roof, you just stick down the mesh and then roller over it with resin.  3 coats of resin, one mixed with grey paint and its finished.  Torch on roofs are much more difficult.

And this is one reason why idiot cladding is used, you just screw it on, clip it together.

Rather than say rendering it which requires plastering skills.

Such is the descent, society is being reorganised for idiocy, it is a race to the bottom ... 
Similarly people have Ikea beds that are made of chipboard which is the lowest grade of wood, people think they have everything these days, but all they have is low grade cheap copies that will break in a few years and then destroy the environment.

It's incredible how much stuff is thrown out that is not biodegradeable which means it will return to haunt us.

Something is very wrong with human beings.

 

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Albion

Albion

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Lots of varied and interesting contributions above. Kj35 in particular mentioned the safety aspect and it does seem like Government deregulation of the building industry has left us in a situation where the people who are deciding what the safety regulations should be, are the same people making a profit from the lack of regulations. This morning I read that pre Grenfell, official guidance even omitted balconies from the combustible materials list. They could be put together from almost anything. Even windows were a loophole. Polystyrene frames for fucks sake. No sprinklers. One escape route. No alarms. At this point I wouldn't be surprised to learn that the fire doors were actually made out of lighter fuel. And as for the way the victims have been treated so far. Deary me.

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Albion

Albion

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1 hour ago, Basket Case said:

 

Gives this link.. 

 

https://www.insidehousing.co.uk/news/news/pms-chief-of-staff-did-not-act-on-multiple-warnings-about-fire-safety-in-months-before-grenfell-new-letters-show-61883 

 

 

 

The link you posted is a pinned tweet from peteapps page. He's posted several columns like that, including one from about an hour ago. His Twitter feed gives updates of the inquiry throughout the day, and it seems like a fairly balanced reporting of proceedings. I read another one of his pieces on the Lakanal House fire from 2009 and found it fascinating.

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Orange Alert

Orange Alert

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On 9/9/2020 at 12:47 AM, Albion said:

Lots of varied and interesting contributions above. Kj35 in particular mentioned the safety aspect and it does seem like Government deregulation of the building industry has left us in a situation where the people who are deciding what the safety regulations should be, are the same people making a profit from the lack of regulations. This morning I read that pre Grenfell, official guidance even omitted balconies from the combustible materials list. They could be put together from almost anything. Even windows were a loophole. Polystyrene frames for fucks sake. No sprinklers. One escape route. No alarms. At this point I wouldn't be surprised to learn that the fire doors were actually made out of lighter fuel. And as for the way the victims have been treated so far. Deary me.

 

They never did this test with the Greenfell type cladding, like here in the video from 60 years ago, fire testing of a mock up of residential flats with internal furnishings and faced with different materials to see which will prevent the spread of fire from one floor to another. Shown in the video at 5 mins 5 secs.

 

 

 

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