The Keys To Religion

[pi3141]

Those bridges describe a perfect circle with their reflection - symbol of the Sun.

[Prince Arthur]

In Abrahamic Religions, NOAH features as the tenth and last of the pre-Flood patriARCHs.

 

The story is all about the signs of the Zodiac - the Royal ARCH or ARK….

 

 

[shabbirss]

[pi3141]

Seen the Vatican Snake pic loads of times and posted it. William Cooper reckoned the conspiracy went back to the Brotherhood Of The Snake. Seeing that pic and the power Rome has weilded and their wealth, makes you wonder if he was bang on target.

 

Do you have any nfo on it?

 

[pi3141]

3 hours ago, Prince Arthur said:

In Abrahamic Religions, NOAH features as the tenth and last of the pre-Flood patriARCHs.

 

 

 

The story is all about the signs of the Zodiac - the Royal ARCH or ARK….

 

Thanks for the post. I'm reading quite heavily about Solar theology and symbols of the ancients and their meaning.

 

The Noah info is much appreciated.

[pi3141]

Crozier of the Syriac Orthodox Bishop

 

[shabbirss]

@pi3141

since your looking deeper, check this out while is still available...
(goes deep into symbolism, word etymology,etc)
 

 

 

 

Edited March 15, 2021 by shabbirss

[pi3141]

[pi3141]

How It All Fits Together - Ken Cousens

 

Symbology, religion, alchemy, interesting info, he's touching on ideas that I'm reaching with this thread and I'm only up to part 4 so far. Some stuff I didn't know but some info I did from reading Jordan Maxwell, Laurence Gardiner, Zacharia Sitchen, David Icke. He seems to be building the picture on the backs of others. I'm not dismissing him, interesting talk and he is looking at it from the similar point of view as me, it all goes back to religion and most religion goes back to the Sun. Its dark magicians using natures secrets to enslave and control us and the Bible is their main spell. It hides the esoteric while giving empty exoteric knowledge to the masses that causes mental anguish, self loathing and fearful congregations. Far from the real purpose of spiritual knowledge in elevating the soul and helping people through life.

 

Thanks for posting it.

[pi3141]

On the back of the Ken Cousens info I feel inspired to post this -

 

Cross-Staff
The cross-staff was a navigational tool used to measure the angle between the horizon and a celestial body such as the sun or stars. By knowing this angle, a navigator could then determine his latitude and direction. The cross-staff is also referred to as the fore-staff and the Jacob's staff.

 

 

Davinci's painting of St John. His cross over his shoulder and he's pointing upwards - to me he's pointing to the Sun and telling us 'Its all about the Sun'

 

[pi3141]

Extract from - Mysterious Sphinx - Hilton Hotema

 

P2
The Bible confuses the clergy and the layman because it is a book of symbol and allegory, which can be interpreted only by him who knows the substances of the Master's teachings and is an expert in astrology, biology, psychology, physiology, anatomy, and all the true sciences related to Cosmic Principles and Processes as they are individualized and manifested in the Microcosom.

 

To interpret correctly the symbols of allegories of the Masters requires that we understand the substance of their teachings. The question of whether or not their teachings were always right and correct is irrelevant and immaterial.

 

The Bible is a book of these symbols and allegories but with many spurious interpolations and distortions, as the church fathers in their attempt to make the Bible say what the Ancient Masters did not teach, sought to muddy the water and confuse the reader.

[pi3141]

I would add Meta-Physics to that list above in the previous post, if you've been following along this thread you'll have seen the 4th Dimension has been mentioned.

 

Like I originally said, you need a lot of extensive knowledge if your going to delve into religion and lots of the information you need has been distorted or hidden from you. I've read all the books on religion in this thread, I've read many others and the Bible and Koran in search of the truth to religion but it is still veiled to me.

 

So whats the point? Well, I have at least developed a sense of contentment, I know I have a soul, I know we go on after death, death is not the end for us. I do not fear death. Yes I am concerned with how I'll go but not with the idea of going and being gone. I see material wealth as a fleeting illusion and I'm not to concerned with accumulating it. Yes I would like to own my own house and have a big pension pot for retirement but if I don't achieve those things I have produced 3 beautiful children, all intelligent and kind natured, I will try and instill in them good values as well as any spiritual teachings I can give them and I have provided a good start for them, happy home and good education. They are my achievement in this life. And I try to take time out every so often to wonder or marvel at life and enjoy a sunset or a starry night. 

Edited March 28, 2021 by pi3141

[pi3141]

On 9/7/2020 at 1:55 PM, Truthspoon said:

This is 4d. 

 

Found this reference in my readings, thought you might be interested, it was written in 1908 by 'Three Initiates'

 

Seems the ancients were talking about the 4th Dimension thousands of years ago from Hermes - 

 

The Kybalion -  Three Initiates

P31
At the beginning we may as well consider the question so often asked by the neophyte, who desires to be informed regarding the meaning of the word “Plane,” which term has been very freely used, and very poorly explained, in many recent works upon the subject of occultism, The question is generally about as fellows: “Is a Plane a place having dimensions, or is it merely a condition or state?” We answer: “No, not a place, nor ordinary dimension of space; and yet more than a state or condition. it may be considered as a state or condition, and yet the state or condition is a degree of dimension, in a scale subject to measurement.”

 

Somewhat paradoxical, is it not? But let us examine the matter. A “dimension,” you know, is “a measure in a straight line, relating to measure,” etc. The ordinary dimensions of space are length, breadth, and height, or perhaps length, breadth, height, thickness or circumference. But there is another dimension of “created things,” or “measure in a straight line,” known to occultists, and to scientists as well, although the latter have not as yet applied the term “dimension” to it–and this new dimension, which, by the way, is the much speculated about “Fourth Dimension,” is the standard used in determining the degrees or “planes.”

 

This Fourth Dimension may be called “the Dimension of Vibration.” It is a fact well known to modern science, as well as to the Hermetists who have embodied the truth in their “Third Hermetic Principle,” that “everything is in motion; everything vibrates; nothing is at rest.” From the highest manifestation, to the lowest, everything and all things Vibrate. Not only do they vibrate at different rates of motion, but as in different directions and in a different manner. The degrees of the “rate” of vibrations constitute the degrees of measurement on the Scale of Vibrations–in other words the degrees of the Fourth Dimension.

 

Quote

The Kybalion (full title: The Kybalion: A Study of the Hermetic Philosophy of Ancient Egypt and Greece) is a book originally published in 1908 by "Three Initiates" (often identified as the New Thought pioneer William Walker Atkinson, 1862–1932)[1] that purports to convey the teachings of Hermes Trismegistus. A modern Hermetic tract, it has been widely influential in twentieth- and twenty-first-century New Age circles.[2] 

Link - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Kybalion

 

[peter]

On 9/7/2020 at 1:18 AM, rideforever said:

I have thought many times about the possibility of introducing a British Spirituality, a type of non-nonsense direct personal spiritual explanation and practice that might appeal to the British Isles.

Will you be going with the vase of flowers or the bookshelf

[rideforever]

16 hours ago, peter said:

Will you be going with the vase of flowers or the bookshelf

 

On the other hand British people are so dumb they often seem not to be worth saving.  My shelves are filled with books on the British Raj a time when British people did have some balls ... but today I listened to two white British women discuss their "refugees" ... apparently it is a badge of honour to have a refugee at home.
I know lots of interesting and alive people in this country ... but none of them are of British stock, they are all 1st/2nd/3rd generation immigrants.
Some of my white British friends are salt of the earth, meaning they live normally, and I like them the best.  But most are busy taking up the backside as a virtue.
This country is exactly what it is, I am bored of trying to remember something real to these losers.  They are not the same as their ancestors.
British people are starting to remind me of "The Jews" .. they are so unlike their ancestors, betray themselves and their traditions, that they do not merit the badge.  I don't know who these people are, losers are losers even if there is a country full of them.

 

Edited March 29, 2021 by rideforever

[pi3141]

Been exploring on another thread the topic of Hell, it appears that Hell is a Christian myth which is not supported in the original texts.

 

For instance,in the Gospel of Mark it says - 

 

Mar 9:45 It is better for thee to enter halt into life, than having two feet to be cast into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched: Mar 9:46 - Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched. Mar 9:47 - And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out: it is better for thee to enter into the kingdom of God with one eye, than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire: Mar 9:48 - Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.

 

However another Bible website gives this translation - 

 

45 And if your foot makes you sin, cut it off! Better that you should be lame but obtain eternal life, rather than keep both feet and be thrown into Gei-Hinnom! 46 47 And if your eye makes you sin, pluck it out! Better that you should be one-eyed but enter the Kingdom of God, rather than keep both eyes and be thrown into Gei-Hinnom 

 

Hence the word we are looking at the the Christians substitute for Hell is Gei-Hinnom

 

Wiki gives us this translation - 

 

Gehenna or Gehinnom (literally translated as "Valley of Hinnom") is thought to be a small valley in Jerusalem. In the Hebrew Bible, Gehenna was initially where some of the kings of Judah sacrificed their children by fire. Thereafter, it was deemed to be cursed (Book of Jeremiah 7:31, 19:2–6).

 

In rabbinic literature, Gehenna is also a destination of the wicked. Gehinnom is not Hell, but originally a grave and in later times a sort of purgatory where one is judged based on one's life's deeds, or rather, where one becomes fully aware of one's own shortcomings and negative actions during one's life. 

 

Link - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gehenna

Further to this, the Valley of Gehinnom was turned into a rubbish tip for the city. In order to sanitize it they set alight to it, continually. If you were a criminal and sentenced to death, after execution your body would be dumped in the valley where at some point it would be set alight and burned. Well nobody would come and claim your bones so you would burn there forever. 

 

Hence it was known as a cursed and fiery place. This concept has been warped into the idea of Hell and it being an eternal place.

 

The Jews don't believe in Hell, nor do the Hindu's nor the Buddhist and nor do the Theosophists, nor do some spiritualists. The Coptic Christians don't believe in Hell and think of it as an offense against God to even consider such a place exists.

In Rev Robert Taylors discourse The Devils Pulpit he explains the phrase 'The worm that never dieth' as relating to the month of October, that being the Gates of Hell where the Sun is just about to enter Winter and hence into Hell and Satan's reign. The Sun in summer is Jesus reigning high in the Heavens and the Sun in winter is Satan in the bottomless pit.

 

As it says in the Wiki quote, the Jews viewed Gehinomm as a place of purgatory or a the grave but not an eternal destination. I took this from a website - 

 

The Jewish mystics described a spiritual place called “Gehinnom.” This is usually translated as “Hell,” but a better translation would be “the Supernal Washing Machine.” Because that’s exactly how it works. The way our soul is cleansed in Gehinnom is similar to the way our clothes are cleansed in a washing machine.

 

Link - https://www.chabad.org/library/article_cdo/aid/1594422/jewish/Do-Jews-Believe-in-Hell.htm

 

So it seems, the Christian doctrine of Hell is not supported by other religions or even in their scripture. According to Blavatsky and others all the times the word Hell or Hades appear in the Bible it is a mistranslation or a substituted word to support the doctrine.

Edited April 18, 2021 by pi3141

[pi3141]

On 4/18/2021 at 11:37 AM, pi3141 said:

So it seems, the Christian doctrine of Hell is not supported by other religions or even in their scripture. According to Blavatsky and others all the times the word Hell or Hades appear in the Bible it is a mistranslation or a substituted word to support the doctrine.

 

Further information to this, a piece from Wiki detailing the words used for Hell in the Bible, this is a list of all the words commonly translated in Bibles to mean Hell when in fact the words mean something different.

 

Hence I believe it can be said - there is no support in scripture for the doctrine of Hell.

 

Biblical terminology
Sheol
In the King James Bible, the Old Testament term Sheol is translated as "Hell" 31 times,[113] and it is translated as "the grave" 31 times.[114] Sheol is also translated as "the pit" three times.[115] Modern Bible translations typically render Sheol as "the grave", "the pit", or "death".

Abaddon
The Hebrew word abaddon, meaning "destruction", is sometimes interpreted as being a synonym for "Hell".[116]

Gehenna
In the New Testament, both early (i.e., the KJV) and modern translations often translate Gehenna as "Hell".[117] Young's Literal Translation and the New World Translation are two notable exceptions, both of which simply use the word "Gehenna".

Hades
Hades is the Greek word which is traditionally used in place of the Hebrew word Sheol in works such as the Septuagint, the Greek translation of the Hebrew Bible. Like other first-century Jews who were literate in Greek, Christian writers of the New Testament employed this usage. While earlier translations most often translated Hades as "Hell", as does the King James Version, modern translations use the transliteration "Hades",[118] or render the word as allusions "to the grave",[119] "among the dead",[120] "place of the dead"[121] or they contain similar statements. In Latin, Hades were translated as Purgatorium (Purgatory) after about 1200 AD,[122] but no modern English translations render Hades as Purgatory.

Tartarus
Only appears in 2 Peter 2:4 in the New Testament; both early and modern Bible translations usually translate Tartarus as "Hell", though a few render it as "Tartarus".

 

Link - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_views_on_Hell

 

Here is the translations 

 

Sheol

Sheol (/ˈʃiːoʊl/ SHEE-ohl, /-əl/; Hebrew: שְׁאוֹל‎ Šəʾōl), in the Hebrew Bible, is a place of darkness to which the dead go. When the Hebrew scriptures were translated into Greek in ancient Alexandria around 200 BC, the word Hades (the Greek underworld) was substituted for Sheol.[1]

 

Link - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sheol#:~:text=Sheol (%2Fˈʃiːoʊ,underworld) was substituted for Sheol.

 

Gehenna

Gehenna (/ɡɪˈhɛnə/, /ɡəˈhɛnə/[1]) or Gehinnom (literally translated as "Valley of Hinnom") is thought to be a small valley in Jerusalem. In the Hebrew Bible, Gehenna was initially where some of the kings of Judah sacrificed their children by fire.[2] Thereafter, it was deemed to be cursed (Book of Jeremiah 7:31, 19:2–6).[3]

 

In rabbinic literature, Gehenna is also a destination of the wicked.[4] Gehinnom is different from the more neutral Sheol/Hades, the abode of the dead, although the King James Version of the Bible misleadingly translates both with the Anglo-Saxon word hell.

 

Link - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gehenna#:~:text=Gehenna (%2Fɡɪˈh,19%3A2–6).

 

 

[pi3141]

The Bible

First of all, which translation, there are many.

Secondly, the Bible is full of mistranslations and additions which are not correct.
The Bible is a spell book, designed to put a spell on you.
The Bible is written in code and has many seals.
Some Bible verses are vehicles to convey higher and concealed knowledge and can only be gained by direct instruction.

To understand it you need knowledge of -
Symbolism and codes
Mysticism
Astrology
Astronomy
Physiology
Psychology
Alchemy
Chakra system

Plus you need access to the secret teachings that go along with some of the parables.

 

The Bible stories are like memorable allegories to facilitate the retention and transfer of knowledge.

 

There is a Roman memory system that works like this - you picture your house and anything you want to remember you picture in the house. So if you want to remember to take an umbrella the next day you picture your house with an umbrella at the door. Then when you want to remember you think about your house and you see the umbrella at the front door, this reminds you to take the umbrella.

 

Another example to build the idea, there is a rhyme it goes like this - 30 days has September, April, June and November... I don't need to remember the rest, I can derive the information I need from the information presented, i.e if September, April, June and November all have 30 days then every other month must have 31 days since I know there are only the 2 possibilities, with an exception for February.

 

The Bible stories are based on Astrotheology, the transit of the Sun and its effects on the earth through the seasons, this is like the house which defines the construct to which we hang ideas, concepts and information. It is the framework.

 

The rhyme is like the Bible stories which are memorable and help us remember the information in an orderly fashion.

 

So you see the Bible is a sealed and coded book with many levels of understanding but its structured by its Astrotheology and Astronomy information as this was the esoteric knowledge of the ancients at the time. Hugely important to help you plant crops and plan for winters, military campaigns, travelling for commerce etc but it also allowed you to make sense of the world and of course the ancients believed heavily in Astrology and hence be able to predict the future. Along with the memorable stories designed to help remember information a wealth of knowledge can be passed on in a human way.
 

Edited May 21, 2021 by pi3141

[pi3141]

You could say I am religious in an anti religious way. I certainly spend a lot of time reading up on it. When I was a kid I read parts of the Bible, Genesis, Revelations, some of the gospels. It was weird and I didn't pay much attention to it. My Dad was religious although he never went to church, he did go to a Spiritual church where at times he led the service - channeled spirits for the congregation.

 

I remember watching Zeitgeist and its opening segment about Sun Gods and religious idols being synonymous with the Sun. I started reading up on the sources for that knowledge and eventually leading me into occult interpretation of religion. I found Martin Luther Kings paper for Stanford University titled 'The Influence Of Ancient Pagan Religion On Christianity' I also read Madam Blavatsky Isis Unveiled from the 1920's and then Manly P Hall Secret Teachings Of All The Ages' as well as some Freemasonry stuff, there's a lot available online. I read that Christianity is a Roman state religion, based on earlier Pagan teachings and that is a synthesis of Eastern Hindu traditions and Western Druid traditions, woven together with a fictitious hero who is representative of the Sun and called Jesus. Jesus himself is based on a few different characters namely Apollonius of Tyrea as well as other real persons and of course Chrishna and this Hesus person who we don't know much about as Druidism died out years ago. Originally Jesus was called Hesus Kristos but the Greeks turned Kristos into Christos and the English turned Hesus into Jesus and we ended up with Jesus Christ.

 

Since the 1900's scholars had the Rosetta Stone and archaeology came on in leaps and bounds studying the ancient ruins, this enabled a greater understanding of the ancient languages and mythologies. In the 1960's Yale University got together linguistic scholars, Biblical scholars, Religious leaders and using the original texts retranlsated the Bible for us to give us a literal translation of the texts. What we find is astounding.

 

Hell is a Christian fiction not based on scripture, nor Satan or the Rapture.

 

The word Hell is used 30 odd times in the Bible, 25 of those times it is a mistranslation of the Ghennon. Ghennon is a valley outside the city of Jerusalem, it was thought of as a cursed place because ancient kings used to sacrifice their children by fire to Moloch there. Partly to stop the practice they turned the area into a dump, rubbish dump. In order to keep the area sanitary they used to set it alight, keep it burning and keep away disease. Well if you were a criminal and sentenced to death, after the execution and if nobody claimed your body it was dumped in Ghennon. Where at somepoint it would be set alight and if nobody came to claim your bones, you would burn there forever. So the Christians have taken this idea that if you are a bad person you will get a bad end and probably be dumped in Ghennon to burn forever and turned it into a literal place where your soul goes after you die. But its not true.

 

In 'Ancient Sun God' Hilton Hotema quotes Doane -

 

Regarding the descent of Jesus into hell, Doane wrote:

This was one of the latest additions to the Sun-myth to the gospel story of Jesus. This has been proven not only to have been an invention after the apostles time, but even after the time of Eusebius (AD325)

 

The doctrine of the descent into hell was not found in the ancient creeds or rules of faith. It is not to be found in the rules of faith delivered by Irenaeus (AD 190), or by Origin (AD 230) or by Tertullian (AD 210). It is not expressed in those creeds that were made by the councils as larger explications of the Apostles Creed; nor in the Nicene, nor the Constantinopolitan, nor in those of Ephesus, nor Chalcedon; nor in confessions made at Sardica, Antioch, Selencia, Sirmium, etc (Bible myths p.49, ft. note)

 

In another quote Jesus says 'On your rock I will establish my church and the gates of Hades will not prevail against it' The Christians say this is the Christ endorsing the doctrine of Hell because Hades is an underworld and synonymous with Hell. Well in the original texts Jesus does not say 'gates of Hades' he says 'the gates of DEATH shall not prevail against it' Meaning if you believe in him, when you go to your grave the gates of death will not prevail against you, you will live on.The Christians have changed his words to support their misguided doctrine. The theosophists and spiritualists knew Hell was a myth back in the early 1900's but the scholars came along in the 1960's and confirmed it with their new translation of the original texts.

 

I'm with the Coptic's on this one, they say it is an offence against God to even think God would set up a place like Hell for us. Why would an ever loving, omniscient, omnipresent creator do such a thing to its own creation. Similar argument goes for reincarnation on the karmic wheel. If your not told what you did wrong in the last life your doomed to make the same mistake in the present one, for ever going round and round in circles on the karmic wheel, its cruel. Its illogical its unlikely.

Satan was invented by the church and associated with the Serpent in the Garden Of Eden to give the story substance. To believe in Satan as an ultimate adversary to God is to be a Polytheist, a Pagan or Heathen. There is only one God, belief in Satan as an ultimate adversary is a belief in many Gods.

 

The rapture was invented in the 18th century from an interpretation of a verse that says Jesus will return on the clouds and his followers gathered up. Well this again is an Astrotheological statement where the Sun comes through the clouds and as for returning it alludes to the procession of the equinoxes where the Sun having passed all the way around the Zodiac will again return in the sign of Pisces. Rapture is not recognized among the Roman Catholics.

 

Lucifer is not an actual demon its a Roman Christian creation. In the original Bible there is a verse that refers to Jupiter and it says 'How art thou fallen son of the day star' well this was changed at some point to be 'how art thou fallen light bearer' and when this was translated into Latin, light bearer became Lucifer, so it read 'How art thou fallen Lucifer' so they invented a mythology about Lucifer to substantiate their mistranslation.

 

The Bible stories are not literal, its a book of spiritual advice that has been written metaphorically or symbolically take for instance Jesus of Nazareth, there was no such place, The term Nazarene means 'one who consecrates his life to the service of God' Jesus being THE Nazarene means he was the most holy in that order. 

 

The name Jesus Christ is a corruption of Latin and English. The full Latin name would be Jesus Christus to denote Latin, to Anglicize it we drop the 'us' hence it becomes Jes Christ. What does Jes mean? Well there is no J in Greek and Hebrew its an English invention so the J becomes an I. Ies, break it down into its roots and you have 'I' which in Greek and Hebrew symbolizes God, the Great God, the One God, and 'es' which is the Phonecian root for Fire, hence Ies means great God of Fire. What was the Great God Of Fire to the ancient Pagans and Heathens? The Sun. Jesus's name literally translates to Sun God. How that relates to the Hesus name I don't know, this symbolism and cryptography is something else, so maybe the J was chosen on purpose so as to create the name Jesus and the etymology link to the Sun.

 

The fables in the Bible are mostly Astrotheological with the Sun being central to worship. Have you heard of the Jacob Staff, its a cross just like the Christian cross used to measure the position of the Sun. The Christian Cross is an Astronomical instrument. Of course this only helps if you know the Earth is not flat. Well the ancients knew this. They put up two poles of the same length in different locations and at midday measured the shadows cast by each pole. My measuring the difference in the length of the shadows they worked out the curvature of the Earth, from that they went on to calculate the Circumference of the Earth and they were quite close. 

 

Of course the Bible is a flat earth book, the original writers believed the Earth to be flat. This can be seen for instance in the fable where Satan takes Jesus up to see all the kingdoms of the world and promises to make Jesus the ruler if only he will bow down to Satan. Of course Jesus refuses but you see how could Jesus see 'All' the kingdoms of the world if it was a globe? he wouldn't be able to see underneath so the writers believed the world to be flat. This may explain the persecution of the church of those who came along and said differently.

 

Although I don't agree with 'organized religion' I see that the central tenets of truth are still within most religions so the truth still gets through its just they dress it up in ceremony and public displays which do more to please the ego than God. They confuse and complicate it to make their existence necessary to extract money from you and with money and status they wield power over societies.

 

I'm going to add my 2 cents worth about homosexuality, because, like women being supposedly spiritually weaker than men I think gays have had an unfair time. 

 

The Biblical authority against gays in in Judges where it says 'it is an abomination for a man to lie with another man as a woman' Well firstly, this is old testament and supposedly the Christ Jesus came and put an end to the old agreement and gave us a new message or testament and nowhere did he say being gay was an abomination. He didn't mention it at all and if it was of highest importance or if being gay was spiritually wrong he would have said. 

 

The verse in Judges is not a perfect teaching - 'resist not evil', 'treat everyone as you wish to be treated', these are perfect teachings. You can apply them to any situation and they are correct. What about the Judges verse, well lets think, it says its an abomination for a man to lie with another man as a woman. Ok well what about a woman lying with another woman as a man? Is that an abomination? There are gay women to so shouldn't the verse or teaching cover that too? It doesn't, its imperfect. What about to gays who are non practicing? Is it an abomination for them to lay together? It doesn't really say. It is not a perfect teaching and in my opinion should be discarded. On top of that its old testament and so no longer relevant. 

 

Why does God create Gay people? I don't know, seems like an evolutionary dead end. I don't know what its purpose is but I know God is perfect and so is its plan and if its created Gay people its done it for a reason and it is not for us to judge or comment or criticize. Lets think about other 'evolutionary mistakes' the Dodo bird for instance, a flightless bird, the only form of defense a bird has is flight, but the Dodo didn't have it. It was doomed to failure, it was never going to survive, but God did it anyway. Why? We don't know, its not our place, but God did it and that is all there is to it. Gay people are a part of God's creation like anyone else and should be treated as such. 

 

Using scripture to justify throwing innocent people of rooftops to their death is disgusting misues of religious writings, criminalizing people for the way they were born like we did in the UK up until the 1950's is again a disgusting use of  authority and likewise using religion to justify treating women as second class citizens or worse as chattels or inferior is offensive to all that is good and part of the reason why I so vehemently disagree with organized religions. Look at what they have inspired. Witch hunts, burnings, torture, wars, death are all just the headlines, theirs all the deaths of children in orphanages, theres the burning of infants for witchcraft, there's the persecution of scientists for telling the truth, there's the second class citizenship because your a woman in eastern countries its even harsher where they are treated like objects, there's the persecution of Gays for being born the way they were. 'By their fruits ye shall the know them'

[pi3141]

The Origin of All Religious Worship - Dupuis

 

Came across this book in my wanderings, written back in 1792. It seems to be the origin of the Christ Sun God idea.

 

Heres a quote from Wiki -

 

Quote

Charles-François Dupuis

Charles François Dupuis (26 October 1742 – 29 September 1809) was a French savant, a professor (from 1766) of rhetoric at the Collège de Lisieux, Paris, who studied for the law in his spare time and was received as avocat in 1770. He also ventured into the field of mathematics and served on the committee that developed the French Republican Calendar.

 

Christ myth theory

Along with Constantin François Chassebœuf de Volney (1757–1820) Dupuis was known for developing the Christ myth theory, which argued that Christianity was an amalgamation of various ancient mythologies and that Jesus was a mythical character.

The beginnings of the formal denial of the existence of Jesus can be traced to late 18th century France, and the works of Constantin François Chassebœuf de Volney (1757–1820) and Dupuis.[3][4] Volney and Dupuis argued that Christianity was an amalgamation of various ancient mythologies and that Jesus was a mythical character.[3][5]

In his book, The Origin of All Religious Worship (Origine de tous les Cultes) he find this intriguing reference to Zoroaster and Eiren. Erin/Eireann is Ireland's ancient name.

 

The God of Light and of the good principle, informs Zoroaster, that he had given to man a place of delight and abundance..

 

this place was called Eiren, which at the beginning was more beautiful than all the world...

 

Nothing could equal the beauty of this delightful place.[6]

 

Dupuis argued that ancient rituals in Syria, Egypt and Persia had influenced the Christian story which was allegorized as the histories of solar deities, such as Sol Invictus.[7] He argued also that Jewish and Christian scriptures could be interpreted according to the solar pattern, e.g. the Fall of Man in Genesis being an allegory of the hardship caused by winter, and the resurrection of Jesus an allegory for the growth of the sun's strength in the sign of Aries at the spring equinox.[7]

 

Volney argued that Abraham and Sarah were derived from Brahma and his wife Saraswati, and that Christ was related to Krishna.[8] Volney published before Dupuis but made use of a draft version of Dupuis' work, and followed much of his argument, but at times differed from him, e.g. in arguing that the gospel stories were not intentionally created as an extended allegory grounded in solar myths, but were compiled organically when simple allegorical statements were misunderstood as history.[7]

 

Link - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles-François_Dupuis#Christ_myth_theory

 

Here's some extractions from the book

 

P226
The following we quote from 'Maimonides' the wisest of all Rabbi's:
'We must not understand or take in a literal sense, what is written in the book of creation, nor form of it the same ideas, which are participated by the generality of mankind, otherwise our ancients sages would not have so much recommended to us, to hide the real meaning of it, and not to lift the allegorical veil, which covers the truth contained therein. When taken in the literal sense, that work gives the most absurd and most extravagant ideas of the deity.

 

P227
Philon a Jewish writer, held the same opinion of the character of the sacred books of the Hebrews. He has made two particular treatises, bearing the title 'Of the Allegories' and he traces back to the allegorical sense, the tree of life, the rivers of Paradise, and the other fictions of Genesis. Although he has not been very felicitous in his explanations, yet he has neverless discovered, that it would be absurd, to take these in a literal sense. It is acknowledged by all, who have some knowledge of the Scriptures, says Origenes, that everything there is wrapped up under the veil of enigma and parable. This doctor and all his disciples regarded, in particular the whole story of Adam and Eve, and the fable of the terrestrial paradise, as an allegory.

Augustin in his 'City of God', acknowledges, that many people saw the incident of Rvr and the Serpent, as well as in the terrestrial paradise, only an allegorical fiction. This doctor, after quoting several explanations, which had been given of it, and which were drawn from morality, adds, that there might be found still better ones; that he was not opposed to it, provided always, says he, that a real history may be found in it also.

How Augustin could reconcile Fable with History, an allegorical fiction with real fact, I am unable to comprehend. If he holds on to this reality at the risk of being illogical, it is because he has fallen into a still greater contradiction, to wit: the acknowledgement of the real mission of Christ as the redeemer of the sin of the first man, and to see in the two first chapters of the Genesis nothing but simple allegory.

 

P247
Do you ignore, that two thousand years before the Christian era, to which epoch the religion of the Persians and the Mithraic worship, or the Bull of Mithras is traced - the Sun made the transit of the equinox under the sign of the Bull, and that it is merely through the effect of the Precession of the Equinoxes, that this passage in our days is under the sign of the Lamb; that there is nothing changed but the celestial forms nad the name? That the worship is absolutely the same? And it would really seem in this instance, as if Firmicus, in his onset on the ancient religions, had his heart set on it, to collect all the traits of analogy, which their mysteries had with those of the Christians. He clings cheifly to the Mithraic Initiation, of which he draws a pretty uniform parallel with that of Christ, and to which it has so much resemblance, merely because it is one and the same sect. It is true he explains all this conformity, which exists between these two religions, by asserting, as Tertullian and St Justin did, that a long time before there were Christians in existence, the Devil had taken pleasure to have their future mysteries and ceremonies copied by his worshippers. This may be an excellent reason for certain Christians, such as there are plenty in our days, but an extremely paltry one for men of common sense. As far as we are concerned, we, who do not believe in the Devil, and who are not, like them, in his secrets, we shall simply observe, that the religion of Christ, founded like all others on the worship of the Sun, has preserved the same practices, the same mysteries or very nearly so, that everything has been in common; because the God was the same; that there were only the accessories, which could differ, but that the basis was absolutely the same. The oldest apologists of the Christian religion agree, that the Mithraic religion had its sacrements, its baptism, its penitence, its Eucharist and its consecration by mystical words; that the catchehumens of that religion had preparatory trials, more rigorous than those of the Christians; that the Initiates or the faithful marked their foreheads with a sacred sign; that they admitted also the dogma of the resurrection; that they were presented with the crown, that ornamated the forehead of the martyrs; that their sovereign Pontiff was not allowed to marry several times; that they had their virgins and their laws of continence; finally that they had everything, which has since been practiced by Christians. Of course Tertullian calls again the Devil to his assistance in order to expalin away so complete a resemblance. But as there is not the slightest difficulty, without the intervention of the Devil, to perceive, that whenever two religions resemble each other so completely, the oldest must be the mother and the youngest the daughter, we shall conclude, that since the worship of Mithras is infinetly older than that of Christ, and its ceremonies a great deal anterior to those of the Christians, that therefore the Christians are incontestably either sectarians or plagarists of the religion of the Magi.
I shall add with the learned 'Hyde', that concerning the angals, the theory of the Persians was more complete; that they acknowledged the distinction of the Angels into Angels of Light and Angels of darkness; that they knew the narratives of their battles, and the names of the Angels, which have been admitted into our religion; that they baptised their children and gave them a name; that they had the fiction of Paradis and of Hell, which is likewise found with the Greeks and the Romans, and with several other nations; that they possessed a heirarchical order, and the whole ecclesiastical constitution of the Christians, which according to Hyde, dates back with them more than three thousand years. But I shall not say with him, that we should see in this the resemblance the work of Providence, which has willed, that the Persians should do in anticipation, what the Christians should do at some future day. If Hyde (who was born on an island, where superstition is almost always found alongside philosophy, forming with it a monstous alliance) - was not deterred through fear of shocking the prejudices of his time and of his country, to disguise in this way the opinion, which a striking resemblance must neccessarily awaken in him; then we must confess, that wisdom is not always common sense; and is by no means its equal. I shall therefore agree with Hyde, that the two religions are similar in almost all points; but I shall come to the conclusion, that they form only one, or at all events, that they are only two sects of the ancient religion of the Orientals, worshippers of the Sun, and that their institutions, as well as their principle dogmas had, - at least as far as there basis is concerned, on common origin. It is still the Sun which is the God of their religion, may he be called Christ or Mithras, Osiris or Bachus, Adonis or Atys etc. Let us now pass to the forms which characterize the God Sun of the Christians in his triumph.
These forms are very naturally taken from the celestial sign, thro which the Star of Day passed at the time, when it restored to our hemisphere the long days and the heat. At the epoch, when Christianism came to be known to the West, and more than fifteen centuries before, this sign was the Ram, which the Pesians in their cosmogony call the Lamb, as we have shown before. This was the sign of exaltation of the Sun in the system of the Astrologers, and the ancient Sabismus had fixed there its grandest feast. It was therefore the Suns return to the Celestial Lamb, which anually regenerated Nature. This then is the form, which this majestic Luminary, this beneficent God, this saviour of mankind, took in its triumph. And this is, - to speak in a mystical style, 'the Lamb which reddemeth the sins "of the World"

 

Link - https://archive.org/details/originallreligi00dupugoog

 

Edited July 17, 2021 by pi3141

[pi3141]

More excerpts from 'The Origins Of All Religious Worship 

 

P251
All the Nations of the Universe are placing themselves before the throne and before the Lamb. They are dressed in white; they have palms in their hands, and sing with a loud voice: Glory to our God, who is sitting on the throne! It will be remembered that the Celestial Lamb or Ram is the sign of the exaltation of the God Sun and this victorious luminary seems to be carried on it in its triumph. The Lamb is surrounded by the duodecimal court or retinue, of which it is the leader in the celestial signs. It appears to be standing on the mountain, and the twelve tribes surround it, and are appointed to follow it, wherever it goes

 

P252
The conquerors of the Dragon are to be seen there, singing the canticle of the Lamb. It would be superfluous to multiply here the passages, in which this mysterious name is repeated. Everywhere we see, that the God of Light under the name of the Lamb, was the great Divinity, which was the great object of devotion in the Initiations of the Christians. The mysteries of Christ are therefore merely the mysteries of the God Sun in its equinoctial triumph, when it assumes the forms of the first sign, or those of the Celestial lamb: consequently the figure of the Lamb was the emblem or the seal, with which in those times the Neophytes of this sect were marked. It was there 'Tessera' and the symbolical attribute, by which the brethren of this religious fraternity or freemasonry made themselves known to each other. The Christians of that time, made their children wear around their necks the symbolic image of the Lamb. Everybody knows the famous 'Agnus Dei.'

 

The oldest representation of the God of the Christians was a figure of a Lamb, to which sometimes a vase was added, into which his blood flowed, and at other times couched at the foot of a cross. This custom subsisted up to the year 680, and until pontificat Agathon, during the reign of Constatine Pogonat. By the sixth synod of Constantinople, (cannon 82) it was ordained, that instead of the ancient symbol, which had been the Lamb, the figure of a man fastened to a cross should be represented; all this was confirmed by Pope Adrian 1. This symbol may still be seen on the Tabernacle or on the little shrine, in which our priests shut up the Sun of Gold or of Silver, consisting the circular image of their God, as also in front of their altars. The Lamb is there frequently represented in a couching position, sometimes on a cross, and at other times on the book of Fate, closed with seven seals. This number seven is that of the seven spheres, of which the Sun is the Soul, and the movement or revolution of which is counted from the point of Aries, or the equinoctial Lamb.

 

P256
The reason why the Ram or Lamb is now playing with the Christians so important a figure, is because it fills the part, which in ancient times was occupied by the Bull in the mysteries of Bacchus and Mithras. Osiris and Bacchus were both represented with the forms of the ancient equinoctial Bull, and died and resuscitated like Christ: the mysteries of their passion were represented in their sanctuaries, as were those of Atys and of Christ, with the Phrygians and with the Christians.

 

The fathers of the Church and the writers of the Christian sect speak frequently of these feats, celebrated in honor of Osiris, who died and arose from the dead, and they draw a parallel with the adventures of their God. Athanasius, Augustin, Theophilus, Athengoras, Minutius Felix, Lactantius, Firmicus, as also the ancient authors who have spoken of Osiris or of the God Sun, worshipped under that name in Egypt, all agree the description of the universal mourning of the Egyptians at that festival, when the commemoration of that death took place, the same as we do with the Sun Christ every good Friday. They describe the ceremonies, which were practiced at his sepulchre, the tears which were there shed during several days, and the festivities and rejoicing, which followed after that mourning, at the moment when the resurrection was announced. He had descended into the lower regions of Hell, and afterwards came out of it again, in order to make his conjunction with Horus, the God of Spring, and to triumph over the prince of darkness, or Typhon his enemy, who had put him to death. These mysteries in which the spectacle of his passion was given, were called the mysteries of the night. These ceremonies had the same object in view, as those of the worship of Atys, according to Macrobius, and had reference to the Sun, the conqueror of darkness, which was represented by the Serpent, of which Typhon took the forms in autumn, during the passage of that Luminary under the Scorpion.

 

P266
We are not the only ones, nor the first, who have this idea of the religion of the Christians. Their apologist Tertullian, agrees, that from the earliest days of the introduction of this religion in the West, the more enlightened men, who had examined into it, pronounced it to be merely a sect of Mithraic religion, and that the God of the Christians like that of the Persians, was the Sun. In Christianism there were sundry practices remarked, which betrayed that origin; the Christians never said their prayers without facing east, or that part of the world where the Sun rises. All their temples, or all their religious meeting houses were anciently facing the rising Sun. Their holy day in each week had reference to the day of the Sun, called Sunday, or the day of the Lord Sun. The ancient Franks called Sunday the day of the Sun. All these practices derived from their origin from the very nature of their religion.

 

The Manicheans, whose religion was a compound of Christianism and Magiism, always faced in their prayers, that part where the Sun was. Zoraster gave to his disciples the same precept. The Manicheans, who had not entirely lost the thread of the religious opinions of the Persians on the two principles and on the Sun Mithras, of which Christ is a copy, said therefore, that Christ was the Sun, or that Christ resided in the Sun, where the ancients also placed Apollo and Hercules. This fact is attested by Theodoret, St Cyril and St Leon. It was in consequence of this opinion, that the other Christians, who styled themselves the 'better believers', doubtless because they were more ignorant, did not admit them in their communion, except by making them abjure the heresy, or the dogma of their religion, which consisted in the belief that Christ and the Sun was only one and the same thing. There are still two Christian sects in the east, who are regarded as worshipers of the Sun. The Gnostics and the Basilidians, - being the most learned sectarians, which this religion has had, and at the same time almost the oldest, - have preserved many of the characteristics which betrayed the origin of this solar worship. They gave to their Christ the name 'Iao', which the oracle of Claros, in Macrobius, gives to the Sun. They had their 365 Eons or Genii, being an equal number of the 365 days, engendered by the Sun, and their Ogdoad, representative of the spheres. Finally Christianism has so much conformity with the worship of the Sun,that the emperor Adrian called the Christians the worshipers of Serapis, in other words, the Sun; because Serapis was the same as Osiris, and the ancient medals, with the impress of Serapis, have this legend: 'Sun Serapis'

We are therefore, neither the first not the only ones, who have ranked the Christians in the class of worshipers of the Sun: and if our assertion should seem a paradox, it is at least not a new one.   

 

P285
From all we have said in this chapter it follows,that Christianism, which is of modern origin, at least in the West, has borrowed everything from the ancient religions; that the fable of the terrestrial Paradise and of the introduction of evil by the Serpent, which serves as the basis of the dogma of the incarnation of Christ and of his title of Redeemer, has been borrowed from the books of Zoroaster, and is merely an allegory of the physical good and evil, which comingle in equal degree with the operations of Nature at each solar revolution; that the redeemer from evil, and the conqueror of darkness is the Sun of Easter or the equinoctial Lamb; that the legend of Christ, dead and resuscitated, resembles, as far as genius is concerned, all the legends and ancient poems on the Star of day personified, and that the mysteries of his death and resurrection are those of the death and resurrection of Osiris, of Bacchus, of Adonis, but principally of Mithras, or the Sun worshiped under a great many different names with different nations; that the dogmas of their theology and especially that of the three principles, belong to many theologies much older than that of the Christians, and are also found with the Platonists, in Plotin, in Macrobius and other writers, foreign to Christianism and imbued with the principles professed by Plato, many centuries before Christianism was known, and afterwards by their sectarian, in the times, when the first Christian Doctors wrote; finally, that the Christian possess absolutely nothing, which might be called their own work, much less that of the deity. 

Edited July 18, 2021 by pi3141

[pi3141]

On 7/17/2021 at 7:07 AM, pi3141 said:

The Origin of All Religious Worship - Dupuis

P226
The following we quote from 'Maimonides' the wisest of all Rabbi's:
'We must not understand or take in a literal sense, what is written in the book of creation, nor form of it the same ideas, which are participated by the generality of mankind, otherwise our ancients sages would not have so much recommended to us, to hide the real meaning of it, and not to lift the allegorical veil, which covers the truth contained therein. When taken in the literal sense, that work gives the most absurd and most extravagant ideas of the deity.

 

To expand on this.

 

In the Bible in Genesis God says - 

 

'Let us make man in our image' then he makes a Man and Woman, I'm cutting the story down a bit here but there are of course two accounts of creation in Genesis, the one where God just creates Man and Woman, he just does, thats what it says, 'Man and Woman he created them' implying no supremacy of Man over Woman by way of Man being First creation and Woman only second and made from a small inconsequential or irrelevant part of Man, implying Women are of 'Lesser' Holy stuff than Man and then the one where he takes the rib. In the latter version in the KJV for instance of the Bible we have the speech 'Let us make man in our image'

 

So whats the mirror image of a Man and Woman? Its of a God and Goddess, a Male and Female God. Or you can contort it as the Kabbalists do and say if God made man and woman in his own image then He must be the image of a Man and Woman. Hence God becomes a Hermaphrodite or as the Spiritualists have it 'Bisexual'.

 

So depending on how you read it God is either Schizophrenic and prone to talking to himself, an Hermaphrodite or there are two or more Gods, a Male and a Female one, at which point you become a Polytheist. I think the RC church holds there are other lesser Gods than God but their God is the supreme one. Maybe a Christian can comment.

 

I have some sympathy for the idea that the creator is both male and female but not that it is in our image - i.e a corporeal being of some sort. But I can see what the Rabbi was trying to say, taking the Bible and especially Genesis literally can lead to much contortion to fit ideas that have no basis in reality. Like the world is 6000 years old, dinosaur bones the work of the Devil, the earth is flat with a crystal dome over it. 

[BlueSky]

52 minutes ago, pi3141 said:

 

To expand on this.

 

In the Bible in Genesis God says - 

 

'Let us make man in our image' then he makes a Man and Woman, I'm cutting the story down a bit here but there are of course two accounts of creation in Genesis, the one where God just creates Man and Woman, he just does, thats what it says, 'Man and Woman he created them' implying no supremacy of Man over Woman by way of Man being First creation and Woman only second and made from a small inconsequential or irrelevant part of Man, implying Women are of 'Lesser' Holy stuff than Man and then the one where he takes the rib. In the latter version in the KJV for instance of the Bible we have the speech 'Let us make man in our image'

 

So whats the mirror image of a Man and Woman? Its of a God and Goddess, a Male and Female God. Or you can contort it as the Kabbalists do and say if God made man and woman in his own image then He must be the image of a Man and Woman. Hence God becomes a Hermaphrodite or as the Spiritualists have it 'Bisexual'.

 

So depending on how you read it God is either Schizophrenic and prone to talking to himself, an Hermaphrodite or there are two or more Gods, a Male and a Female one, at which point you become a Polytheist. I think the RC church holds there are other lesser Gods than God but their God is the supreme one. Maybe a Christian can comment.

 

I have some sympathy for the idea that the creator is both male and female but not that it is in our image - i.e a corporeal being of some sort. But I can see what the Rabbi was trying to say, taking the Bible and especially Genesis literally can lead to much contortion to fit ideas that have no basis in reality. Like the world is 6000 years old, dinosaur bones the work of the Devil, the earth is flat with a crystal dome over it. 

What if "and God said, let us make man in our image, after our likeness" meant "let us make man in our mind to imitate us". Maybe it doesn't mean we look like the creator, but we have the essence from it. 

 

 

[pi3141]

15 minutes ago, BlueSky said:

Maybe it doesn't mean we look like the creator, but we have the essence from it. 

 

I think thats exactly the truth.

[pi3141]

Some supportive evidence.

 

Jesus' real name, Yeshua, evolved over millennia in a case of transliteration.

 

Regardless of religious belief, the name “Jesus” is nearly universally recognizable. However, it may come as a surprise that the name millions of Christians all over the world are implored not to take in vain was not actually “Jesus” at all.

Controversial though the claim may sound, at heart it is really more of a translation issue.

 

Of course, neither English nor Spanish were around in their modern form when the real Jesus was actually alive, or for that matter, when the New Testament was written.

 

Jesus and his followers were all Jewish and so they had Hebrew names — although they would likely have spoken Aramaic. The “J” sound used to pronounce Jesus’ name does not exist in Hebrew or Aramaic, which is strong evidence that Jesus was called something entirely different by his contemporaries.

 

Most scholars, therefore, believe that the Christian Messiah’s name was actually “Yeshua,” a fairly common Jewish name around the time Jesus was alive. Archaeologists have actually found the name carved into 71 burial caves in Israel, dating from the time the historical Jesus would have been alive. This leads to the question of why, if there were evidently so many men named “Yeshua” running around at the time, the name “Jesus” came to be unique.

 

Since not every language shares the same sounds, people have historically adapted their names so as to be able to pronounce them in various languages. Even in modern languages, there are differences in the pronunciation of Jesus. In English, the name is pronounced with a hard “J” while in Spanish, even though the spelling is the same, the name is pronounced with what would be an “H” in English.

 

It is precisely this type of transliteration that has evolved “Yeshua” into the modern “Jesus.” The New Testament was originally written in Greek, which not only uses an entirely different alphabet than Hebrew but also lacks the “sh” sound found in “Yeshua.”

 

The New Testament authors decided to use the Greek “s” sound in place of the “sh” in Yeshua and then added a final “s” to the end of the name to make it masculine in the language. When, in turn, the Bible was translated into Latin from the original Greek, the translators rendered the name as “Iesus.”

 

In John 19:20, the disciple writes that the Romans nailed to Jesus’ cross a sign stating “The King of the Jews” and that “it was written in Hebrew, and Greek, and Latin.” This inscription has been a standard part of depictions of the crucifixion in Western Christianity for centuries as “INRI,” an abbreviation for the Latin Iesus Nazarenus Rex Iudaeorum, or “Jesus the Nazarene King of the Jews.”

 

Since Latin was the preferred language of the Catholic Church, the Latin version of “Yeshua” was the name for Christ throughout Europe. Even the 1611 publication of the King James Bible used the “Iesus” spelling.

 

Link - https://allthatsinteresting.com/yeshua-jesus-real-name

 

 

So the Spanish rendering of Jesus is pronounced Hesus, this hints at the allegation that Constantine's hero was originally called Hesus Kristos. Hesus taken from the Druids and Kristos taken from the Hindu's

 

The Latin name for Jesus was Iesus, the 'US' denoting Latin hence the Root would be 'Ies' this is what Rev Robert Taylor described in The Devils Pulpit - Jesus is a corruption of English and Latin, the 'J' not being part of Hebrew or Greek becomes 'I', drop the Latin 'US' and you get 'Ies' which breaks down to 'I' the symbol for God and 'es' the Phoenician root for Fire, hence Jesus's name denotes the Great God Of Fire - the Sun! Again with the Latin inscription 'Iesus Nazarenus Rex Ludaeorum' you can see the 'US' is Latin addition drop the 'US' and you get 'Ies Nazaren' back to the symbol Ies. This has got to be the biggest proof the Jesus of the Bible is a symbol of the Sun. And some of the stories are allegories to the Sun's transit through the sky.

 

I've also seen the name rendered as Iesuos in Greek I think, again I think the 'OUS' is a Greek addition, i.e Papadopoulos so again I think the name or symbol can be reduced to 'Ies' 

 

And it seems the name Yeshua is based on little more than assumption that it was a common name of the time. So still, the Christians don't know the real name of their saviour! Thats quite a big thing, to not really know his name? To call him something else and worship his birthday on the wrong day, I mean, come on. Need I say more, how well do they really know this story. 

Edited August 7, 2021 by pi3141