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The Keys To Religion


pi3141

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5 hours ago, pi3141 said:

 

Oh, sorry to hear that - what's wrong?

 

The book is heavily notated and the translations are presented as they are in the original scripture. So there's no Chapter and Verses notation. It's a bit difficult to find specific verses unless you really know the Bible.

 

That's what I like about the series, it's a faithful and accurate translation of the original documents presented exactly how they were originally written.

 

I'm only on the first bit so i'll see how I get on.

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For info - 

 

The Diegesis: Being a Discovery of the Origin, Evidences, and Early History of Christianity by Rev Taylor

&

The Astronomico-theological Discourses by Rev Taylor

 

 

This work has been selected by scholars as being culturally important, and is part of the knowledge base of civilization as we know it. This work was reproduced from the original artifact, and remains as true to the original work as possible. Therefore, you will see the original copyright references, library stamps (as most of these works have been housed in our most important libraries around the world), and other notations in the work.

 

This work is in the public domain in the United States of America, and possibly other nations. Within the United States, you may freely copy and distribute this work, as no entity (individual or corporate) has a copyright on the body of the work.

 

As a reproduction of a historical artifact, this work may contain missing or blurred pages, poor pictures, errant marks, etc. Scholars believe, and we concur, that this work is important enough to be preserved, reproduced, and made generally available to the public. We appreciate your support of the preservation process, and thank you for being an important part of keeping this knowledge alive and relevant.

 

Taken from Amazon, The blurb/description applies to both books.

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  • 3 weeks later...

Why do the Christians, most notably the Roman Catholic Church use Latin for their sacred works?

 

The Romans, who were the Latin speakers, were the oppressors of the Christians.

 

Latin is a dead language. Latin is the language of the Christian persecutors.

 

Why would the Christians use the dead language of their oppressors for their sacred scriptures?

 

The originals were written in Aramaic, Hebrew and Greek so why translate them to Latin and then persist in using a dead language of your oppressors for over 1500 years?

 

Still to this day, 2000 years later the Roman Catholic Church adheres to the dead language of their oppressors.

 

Why?

 

Food for thought.

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19 hours ago, pi3141 said:

Why do the Christians, most notably the Roman Catholic Church use Latin for their sacred works?

 

The Romans, who were the Latin speakers, were the oppressors of the Christians.

 

Latin is a dead language. Latin is the language of the Christian persecutors.

 

Why would the Christians use the dead language of their oppressors for their sacred scriptures?

 

The originals were written in Aramaic, Hebrew and Greek so why translate them to Latin and then persist in using a dead language of your oppressors for over 1500 years?

 

Still to this day, 2000 years later the Roman Catholic Church adheres to the dead language of their oppressors.

 

Why?

 

Food for thought.

 

But Constantine converted the Romans to Christianity (ok it took a while). Then, after the empire split between west and east, the Roman Catholic church became the official church of the western empire and the orthodox church in the east. Why wouldn't they adopt Latin as their sacred language in the West (is it Greek in the east?). The whole point was to unify the empire with Christianity which would be more difficult if a foreign language was used. The unified empire and church was like the EU 1.0. Sounds familiar?

Later on after the political empire crumbled, we still had the church. They swallowed up the rest of the pagans and continued their agenda of unifying us in a single ideology and universal religion, with centralised control. This isn't really about the original teachings of Jesus, whatever they were, they've been twisted to suit the church anyway - just look at the position of women for example. 

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10 hours ago, Campion said:

The whole point was to unify the empire with Christianity which would be more difficult if a foreign language was used. 

 

But Christianity was foreign.

 

From your post, I get the impression the Romans used Christianity for control?

 

The empire was in decline from 31ce up to 400ce when it was finished. Rome was no more, Latin was dying, so why would the Christians retain Latin as the official language when that language was of the a state that was no more and the  oppressors. 

 

When Rome was divided into Eats and West the East empire was largely Greek speaking.

 

It served them well because the commoners could not read or write in their own language, let alone Latin. So they were dependant on the priests to read them the God Spells.

Edited by pi3141
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18 hours ago, pi3141 said:

But Christianity was foreign.

 

From your post, I get the impression the Romans used Christianity for control?

 

The empire was in decline from 31ce up to 400ce when it was finished. Rome was no more, Latin was dying, so why would the Christians retain Latin as the official language when that language was of the a state that was no more and the  oppressors. 

 

Sure, it's a big thing for a whole empire to change religion, I think it happened over a period of time, beginning with toleration and then the emperor converted (Constantine's mother was already Christian). The empire was in decline and shifting eastwards as you say, my theory is that they were getting desperate to keep it together against the external threats. Maybe control us too strong a word for it, but if you want to prevent your peoples fragmenting and organising themselves on ethnic grounds, then having a single universal religion with an international language for the priesthood could sound appealing. It didn't work of course, but the church itself survived and Latin didn't die because it was a useful way for the priests to communicate across the West while new kingdoms and empires came and went. 

 

Does this have lessons for us now, as we are forced into ever more multicultural society but the governments and corporations still want to keep their "empires" viable? Are we seeing new international religions and ideologies pushed forwards like political correctness, wokeness, welfarism and equality? If those synthetic new ideologies don't work to keep society unified, will we fragment back along ethnic lines? 

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19 hours ago, pi3141 said:

It served them well because the commoners could not read or write in their own language, let alone Latin. So they were dependant on the priests to read them the God Spells.

 

Yup, that looks like control. When you don't understand the language of the liturgy, and in fact the orthodox church holds ceremonies behind big screens which exclude the laity, it's indistinguishable from magic to me. 

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  • 3 weeks later...

The final Chapter of the State of The Dead.

 

The Manuscript was written in the 15th Century.

 

In this chapter the author reveals the semi-diameter of the Earth, inferring he knew the Earth to be a Globe, and in fact he thought it was hollow.

 

The author speaks of all the Orbs we see in the Universe as having inhabitants that also adhere to a Religious system thus admitting that Man is not unique in the universe or Gods sole creation and that other worlds and aliens exist 500 years before the Church openly admitted the possibility.

 

Finally, he he tells us that although Eternal Punishment and Eternal Torments are not true, the common people should be taught the doctrine to scare them from evil - put the fear of God in people to stop them sinning.

 

Who is the author -

 

Thomas Burnet

 

From Wiki - 

 

Life
He was born at Croft near Darlington in 1635. After studying at Northallerton Grammar School[3] under Thomas Smelt, he went to Clare College, Cambridge in 1651.[3] There he was a pupil of John Tillotson. Ralph Cudworth, the Master of Clare, moved to Christ's College, Cambridge in 1654, and Burnet followed him. He became fellow of Christ's in 1657, M.A. in 1658, and was proctor in 1667.[4][5]

 

snip

 

After the Glorious Revolution Burnet became chaplain in ordinary and Clerk of the Closet to William III (until 1695). He received no clerical preferment and lived quietly in the Charterhouse, where he died on 27 September 1715, and was buried in the chapel.[5][3]


Again from Wiki - 


Clerk of the Closet

The College of Chaplains of the Ecclesiastical Household of the Sovereign of the United Kingdom is under the Clerk of the Closet, an office dating from 1437. It is normally held by a diocesan bishop, who may, however, remain in office after leaving his see. 

The Clerk of the Closet is responsible for advising the Private Secretary to the Sovereign on the names for candidates to fill vacancies in the Roll of Chaplains to the Sovereign. He presents bishops for homage to the Sovereign, examines any theological books to be presented to the Sovereign, and preaches annually in the Chapel Royal, St James's Palace. 


So then, this is what this man has to say about the Christian Doctrine of Hell.

 

Of The State of the Dead and those set to Rise 

 

Chap X

 

Concerning Heaven and Hell; what is the Heaven of the Christians, and how far local; what is Hell, and whether there is a subterraneous one or not; or any other local, corporeal and external one before the Day of Judgement and the Conflagration of the World; of the Pains of Hell; whether they infinite, or finite, or no.


We have finished off all we have to say about human Affairs; we must here, now, treat of Heaven and Hell. By Heaven the Christians mean the Sate and Place of future Happiness; the Seats of Blessed Souls, in Regions above, remote from us. In this the Christians agree with the wisest Heathen Philosophers, who remitted back the Souls of good Men to the Place from whence they came. The Poets, indeed, a People bold and extravagant, according to their own Fancies have refined upon, and new modelled the ancient Opinions, and they over shadow the Truth with Fictions of Elysian Fields, to place Souls in, upon Earth, or in the fortunate Islands; or more absurdly in Regions under Ground: so grossly does Virgil adapt this Fancy to the popular Taste, formed from some obscure and corrupted Notions of the ancient Paradise. Its certainly true, the Saints will enjoy a very happy Life in the new Earth, or Paradise. But here I do not treat of the intermediate Happiness and partial Felicity of the Saints, my Scope and View is towards the last Resurrection after the Millenium: When after having put on their heavenly Glory and Joy.

 

All Christians agree in these Coelestial and super-coelestial Seats: the School-men call it Empyreum, or fiery Heaven: And all the rest mean thereby, the Habitation of the Blessed for ever. But as nothing of this igneous Heaven appears to us, except the Bodies of the Sun and fixed Stars, their system of the Heavenly Disposition is imaginary and ficticous: They suppose all the Heavens to have one common Center, and to be wrapt in each other like the Coats of Bulbous Roots, This indeed holds, as to the Orbs of the Planets in some measure, but with the fixed Stars but no means; for they are not placed upon the same equal Surpersicies but at Distances from us, are immerged in the Heights of Space above, and have all their proper Orbs to themselves: And whereas these Men feign the World of fixed Stars above the Planets, and from thence extend Orb above Orb, till they come to the Primum Mobilis, or the highest Empyrian Heaven; their fictitous Scheme will agree neither with the real Structure of the Heavens, the Order of the Stars, nor indeed with any Astronomical or philosophical Scheme. These Gentlemen seem to take their Hint from the elementary Fire; they place it in the highest of Heavens, as being more light and subtle, more pure and refined than all the Rest: But, alas, how far from Truth! for the igneous Substance is not at the Extremity of the Orbs, but in their Center, and forms the lucid flameous Body of a Star; and unless you put the Souls of good Men into the Sun, or some of these flaming Stars, no other Empyrean Heaven is to be found.

But though this Emptrean Scheme is ficticous enough, it remains nevertheless, that some Stars may differ from other Stars in Glory, Light and Flame: And wherever the Schechinah, or glourious Body of Christ is, the Rays dart like a new Star within the Sphere of the Blessed, from under the Throne of his Glory: As the dying Words of Christ to his Father are (a) Father, I will that they also whom thou hast given me, be with me where I am; that they may behold my Glory which thou hast given me: For thou lovest me before the Foundation of the World. The exact and material Dimensions of this Place, is not our Business, nor our intent to pint out:

 

(a) John xvii. 24

 

P66

 

Whereas we shall have our Habitations in Heaven, and be made Partakers of the Inheritance of the Saints in Light, Col. i. 12. Perhaps this Inheritance is not only above the Moon, but even the Atmosphere of the Planets, or their Shades, in the aethereal Regions of eternal Light. Lastly, as Christ has said, In his Father's House there are many Mansions, John xiv. 2. the Saints are nearer their Perfcetion of Glory, the nearer they are to the Scechinah, and to the Throne of Glory.

 

So much for the Seat of the Blessed: But as to their State of Happiness and Felicity in these aethereal Regions, the Apostles has said, (a) Eye hath not seen, not Ear heard, neither hath it entered into the Heart of Man, the Things which God has prepared for them that love him; they are beyond any Senses, any idea's we now have: They are to be ranked under two Heads, the Body and the Soul. What Bodies they shall have we have before treated in the 7th and 8th Chapters* They will be free from the Sicknesses, Troubles, and Pains of our Flesh; and Reason will hold a free and undisturbed Reign over the whole; the Faculties of the Soul will be growing up to their full Maturity and Perfection; the Senses and Affections, and all the Operations of the Mind, will be more vegete, more lively, and employed upon the most illustrious and entertaining Objects.

 

We shall have new and wonderful Objects before us, when being advanced above the Planets, we see the wide Ocean of Space below, with Variety of inhabited Earths, swimming therein.

 

* Page 145 and 179, of the former Volume.

 

P67

 

The visual Eye will bring Objects nearer than the most accurate Glasses (a) and contract the most remote within its View, whose Rays cannot pierce our Atmosphere, nor be seen by us below: Then we shall see the fixed Stars, the everlasting Fires of Heaven, prodigus Suns, crouded beyond each other through infinite Regions of Space; what Pleasure will the immense Prospect yeild? our God is great, that God who made and formed the Universe? How mean is our Earth to the large Expanse of Heaven? See Seneca's natural Questions, Praefat. Quam juruat inter fidera, &c? How delightful is it to dwell among the Stars & c?

 

Lastly, Besides the Grandeur and the Magnificence of the Works of God, the Beauty of those Works spread over the Face of Heaven, when the Stars shining like Gems illustrate the Skies, will more evidently appear; the Rays reracted in the Orbs create such Variety of Rainbows (b) and modified Lights, as are told by the Prophet of the holy city, Rev. xxi. 18, 19, &c. Let me add, that when we are placed above all the Planets, in the aethereal Regions, we shall not see the Hemisphere, or half the Circle of Heavens; but the whole Sphere, the great Amphitheatre of the World, with the Throne of the great King, and the most splendid Apparatus thereof will appear at one View. And what Addition the divine Scechinah will make to this glorious Spectacle, is beyond my Power to express in Words.

(a) The Doctor has forgot all he has said before against an organized Body, and their Eye.


(b) The Doctor is very much for a millenarian Heaven. This is wretched Divinity, worse Philosophy, though pretty Fancy: I suppose we shall ride a Cook-a-Hoop (upon a Rainbow, and fly upon a Cloud of Light.)

 

But what are these only Pleasures of the Senses? the Happiness of the Saints in Heaven is in the Contemplation of the Mind, and Addictions of the Soul. A Felicity that will not bear the vulgar Day-Light, and as the Apostle says, Hath not entered into the Hearts of Man in this present Life. For it is certain, the more noble the Objects of the Understanding are, the Mind dwells with the more pure and serene Pleasure upon them: No thing in the Universe exceeds the divine Nature and Perfections, nor within infinite Distances comes up to them; and consequently no greater Happiness can arise to a rational Soul, than the Contemplation and Love of that God. It is plain, therefore, we cannot have even the most imperfect Idea here, nor Words to speak, nor Fancy to paint that Happiness to us below; so utterly distinct are Enjoyments of this and another Life from each other.

 

To proceed: According to the Degree of our Encrease and Perfection in the Knowledge of God, our Love and Admiration enlarge their Bounds; the sweetest and most happy Affections of all human Nature. Then we shall come to the last Stretch and Power of our Knowledge in divine Things, as both Scripture and Reason tell us; we shall be like infants, and then come to the Maturity of our manly Age: (a) For now we see through Glass darkly; but then Face to Face: Now I know in Part; but then I shall know even as I also am known. These words of the Apostle, notwithstanding their latents Sense, in general shew us our Knowledge will be advanced in Heaven.

 

(a) I Cor. xiii. 12

 

P69

 

And this, indeed, Reason and the Nature of the Thing never fail of demonstrating; because in our heavenly Life, all these Things concur that extend and enlarge Knowledge. That Helps thereto, and the Incitements from our external penetrating, even in minute or distant Objects, than human Organs can render ours at this Day. The Purity of our coelestial Body, and the Tenuity thereof, give way to the penetrating Force of Reason and Wit, running through all the Degrees of Contemplation, till we come to the Understanding and Excellency of Angels: And from the Purity of both Mind and Body, we are disposed to receive God: By that I mean the divine Influences and Illuminations exalted far above the Gifts of Nature: That eternal Truth and intellectual Light is diffused all around, and disposed according to the Gifts and Capacities of the Receiver, and the Souls thus enlarged, take in more copious Draught of divine Rays. This our outward Incrustation of Flesh, our Covering of Clay, excludes the Sparks of divine Light: though from the few we have, we may expect a full Harvest, and complete beams of Light at last.

 

To this we may add, the crowning Felicity of all in Heaven, the beatifick Vision: By this we mean the corporeal and external, or the incorporeal and intellectual one. The corporeal will be the Vision of Schechinah, (a) or of our Lord Jesus Christ in (b) his glorious Body: For God in himself is an invisible and pure Spirit:

 

(a) John xvii. 24.

(b) How the Angels see God, Matt. xviii. 10. as we shall see.

 

P70

 

Incorporeal Vision is the Contemplation of the divine Nature, and as it were in a Glass, the View of the eternal and ideal World, and of the external and temporary one. By the ideal World, I mean the Essences and Idea's of Things eternal; immutable Truths arising from the Relation of Things to each other, the Order of all possible Things from the most great and perfect Being of all, through all the intermediate Degrees, to the lowest Class of almost nothing: An immediate Intuition and Contemplation upon all these in the Bosom of the Father, in the same Manner and Order they are in the divine Understanding, as is the true beatifick Vision.

 

We say, therefore, this contemplative Vision includes both Worlds; the eternal and immutable one, in the divine Understanding, and the present, mutable, temporary World governed by the Will of God. Here opens a large Field of Contemplation, whose least Part we cannot even pursue in this Life, much less the Number, Order, Greatness, Perfection, Vicissitudes and Periods of created Beings: How little do we know of the Furniture of this World, the natural History of the Animals, Plants, and inanimate Beings therein? how many Planetary Worlds are there besides, equally prepared and furnished as ours, with different Degrees of animate and inanimate Things? and how are we lost in contemplating upon the inexhaustible Fecundity of the Wisdom of God, spread over the Face of all Things in new Appearances, and various Beauties given to every one, yet all just, fair, and proper.

 

P71

 

---- For tho' not every Face alike, 
Nor the same Features on the Fancy strike,
The kindred Blood in every Part they own.

 

But over and above this Order of natural Things in the planetary Worlds, there is likewise a Moral, or religious Dispensation, by which the inhabitants of each are directed in the Worship of God, and in the Pursuit of Virtue and Happiness, in the Economies replete with infinite variety in so many Worlds. The divine Wisdom, Goodness, and Justice shine in their full Glory, and in these Worlds all the Mysteries of Providence are contained; even as in ours, the whole Mystery of the Messiah, the Alpha and Omega is fulfilled: What is performed in the rest we do not know; but if we may judge from one Example of all, we may suppose that they are filled with instances of most admirable Wisdom, branched into several Forms and Ministrations. To have these Treasures opened to our View; this vast Magazine of the Secrets of Providence, and the whole Theory of Religions in the Universe disclosed: What Raptures, agreeable Motions in the Soul, and Pleasing Sensations must this Prospect cause? nothing is more sweet than to advance in Knowledge, and the Enjoyment of Truth.

 

Observe the fixed Stars, those noble Bodies far exceeding the Planets as to Bulk and Excellency; they do not, as they seem to us, stick up on the Superficies of one Covering, but they are variously dispersed over the vast Concavity of the Heavens: These Morning Stars, we may safely conclude from the Notion of the divine Power, have their Inhabitants, instructed to sing Praises to God (See Job. xxxviii. 7,) I say, they have Natives and Animals proper to the Place, and all other Things proportionally greater, according to the Dignity and Magnitude of these primary Bodies.

 

P72

Lastly, what now is hid from our Eyes, we shall then perfectly see the intellectual System of the World; I mean the Orders of Angels and Arch-Angels, and the illustrious and glorious Hierarchy there, next to God in Understanding and Majesty, and governing the Universe: When we see this coelestial Army drawn forth, their Numbers, Forces, Degrees and Dignities, all human Objects will pall upon the Sense, (a) The former shall not be remembered, nor come into Mind: (b) The Prophet spoke in relation to the new Earth; but much more in that coelestial Glory, Oblivion will be drawn over the Memory of Things past, nor leave even Room for the minute and inconsiderable Enjoyments of this Life, the Mind will have only the greatest and the best to chuse, to contemplate upon and enjoy in that happy State for Eternity.

 

From what has been said, we have sufficiently explained the beatifick Vision: But as to the corporeal Vision, it is the sensible View of the external World, in a much better Manner than it is now to be seen; when we shall view the divine Scechinah, or Glory of Christ. The incorporeal Vision is another Kind of Scechinah, or the internal and mental Vision of Gog: The Object of this Vision is two-fold; First, the antemundan, or immoveable Idea of God, and of all possible and eternal Things. 

 

P73

 

Secondly, the mundane Idea of all created and external Beings, open at one View to the Understanding, in its full Latitude, through all the changes, Periods, and Divisions of the Universe, the Orders of created Beings, the Series of Ages from the Beginning of Time to the End thereof: This I call the Universal Glass of Providence; nor can more great, nor more glorious Objects come before angelick or human Understanding; and if from Seeing and Contemplation Felicity arises, thrice, nay, four times happy are those who borrow Light from this Light, and Life from this Fountain of Life, inebriated with these Torrents of Delight, transported with these Extacies and Effusions, they receive the whole God into their Breasts.

 

Let me likewise add, to explain this Mystery of the Vision of God, we shall see him then Face to Face as he is, though now we see him only in his Works, we shall see him then in himself, in his proper Essence as he is, though now we only see him in Attributes: In this State the divine Goodness, Justice, Power, Wisdom, Will and Understanding appear different; now God seems to us to act, and sometimes not to act at all; so various is his Measures, that we cannot see him to be a simple and immutable Being, but rather a compounded one occasionally, and not uniformly active; but when we shall see God as he is, all these will unite into one simple and immutable Nature: This is to see God, and to contemplate him as he is, a Being infinitely perfect, Being of Beings, what Glory ... it is time to stop here: Why do we, like Children, stumble at Things beyond our Understanding in this World, searching in the Dark, and leaving the Glorious Things untouched upon?

 

P74

 

let us go to the third Heaven with St. Paul, to learn those (Greek Text), ineffable Mysteries. The Scripture is silent, or at least very slightly passes over this State of the Dead, and the Happiness thereof, or shadows the same with metaphorical Expressions of Rivers of Pleasures, Delights of Paradis and Crowns, to allure and take common Understandings, which measure the Felicity of the Saints, the first in the new Earth in the Reign of Christ for a thousand Years, the second an everlasting and eternal Consummation of Happiness, are sometimes confounded; though Scriptures speak more frequently of the first than of the last; the first has a Proximity to us; and its State, excepting some little Evils attending us here, is not unlike our present Station: But the last, as being perfectly coelestial, is so different, both in its Ends and Scope, and accedes so near to an angelical Life, that a modern Understanding takes in no Idea thereof.

 

St. John, therefore, very well observed, (a) It doth not appear what we shall be (viz. in Heaven), but we know that when he shall appear, we shall be like him. Lastly Christ says, we shall be (Greek Text), equal to Angels; as to Body we shall be like Christ, as to Body and Mind we shall be like Angels. This two-fold Conformity contains therein the Seeds of various sorts of Perfection; for as we take in new strength for intellectual Actions, and to compleat the Knowledge of Truth, and our Love of God, and our Happiness grow up with this Knowledge; we go at last from Glory to Glory, into the perfect Image of God, till we come to the Measure of the Stature of the Fulness of Christ, and to the ineffable Union with God and his Son, John xvii. 20, 21, 22, 23, 24.

 

(a) I John iii. 2.

 

P75


May God grant, that the Happiness we can conceive no Notion of here, may fail to be our Portion hereafter; and that concerning the Pleasures and false Glory of this present World, we may profess eternal Glory in Heaven, through our Lord JESUS CHRIST.

We must next treat of Hell; by which Christian Authors mean, the place and state of the damned, or of wicked Men and Devils. The Latins, by inferiour Hell, understand that State the Greeks call (Adns? Greek), the hidden, or invisible state; in which sense it is always taken in the holy Scriptures; but custom has generally given the Name of ineriour Hell to the prison of miserable Men, departed this life, and destined to Pain and Torment in the lower Regions; and according to this Notion I shall examine if there be a subterraneous Hell.

 

That there are many great Cavities in the Earth, stored with Water, Fire or Air, is, I think, beyond Doubt; but of these you will not find one answer to the Conditions and Requisites of Hell; a place, in the holy Scriptures, said to consist of utter Darkness and unquenchable Fire; the place can by no means be dark and igneous at the same Time, unless the thick Clouds over-come the Lucidness of the Flame; from whence some have feigned AEtnean Furnaces, and ignivomous Apertures to vomit out the Flames. To this I can by no means agree, for this Hypothesis makes as many Hells as there are ignivomous Mountains over the World, which is absurd; or they make one continued  Cavity running through the innermost Parts of the Earth, as the great Abyss was before the Deluge. But this will by no means agree with the modern Construction of the Earth; nor is there any Room for such a Vacuity there: For that Region must be either above or below the Bottom of the Ocean, if above, the Continents and islands will make Breaks, Divisions, and interruptions in the Place, and the flowing Currents cause watery Partitions in the Infernal Regions; but if below, as at the Formation of the Earth, it could not be under the great Abyss, and if there was any passage thereto, the Water would gush in and extinguish the Flames of Hell.

 

It is a commonly received Opinion, that there is a material Fire at the Center of the Earth; and this, they say, constitutes Hell. This Hypothesis has provided no previous passage. So remote from us, and so far below, the Wicked will have almost an inaccessible Place for their Torments, abd vast solid Tracks of Earth to perforate in their voyage; and how long, how tedious a Journey will it be? the semi-diameter of our Earth is alone 3400 of our Miles, an inpmpenetrable Distance alone; but where this deep passage, and where begins the Road to the vast Cavern, is as yet unknown (a). The Devils have not this (b) narrow Place to dwell in; to them is allotted the large prison of the Air, and the infernal Tyrant thereof is called (c) in Scriptures, the Prince of the Air, there we are told he has his Throne at this Day, till it ends in the Prison of the Abyss in the millenary Reign of Christ (d).

 

P77


The words of the Apostle you may, perhaps, object, that the evil Angels were thrust into Hell, (a) and delivered into the Chains of Darkness; and Christ is said to have descended (Greek) (b) into the lower Parts of the Earth; he is likewise, in both vulgar and sacred Style, said to have ascended into Heaven, and is descended into Hell; which must therefore be a subterraneous Place. But these arguments will not do; for by Tartarus, or Hell, the Ancients always meant the inferiour World, and atmosphereal Air about us; and therefore the Angels were cast from their pure aethereal Breathings, into the gross Fogs, investing our Globe: As to their being delivered into Chains, this is spoken after our Manner, who bind our Criminals in Chains to prevent their Escape: As to the Descent of Christ (Greek Text) this has no Relation to his Death (as is plain from parallel Places) but (c) to his incarnation (d) when he left Heaven for our sakes, and honoured this Earth with his Presence, and it is called the lowermost parts (e) in respect of Heaven, so that (f) the comparison is here kept up with the Parts of the Earth, and of the World.

 

Lastly, whereras the Dead are said to go ad inferos vel infernum to Hell (Greek text); this is the Grave where the Bodies of both the Good and the Wicked, but especially the wicked are said to be laid up in: To the Good and Evil we affect to ascribe different Places; to the first therefore we give Heaven, and a clear Air above our Heads, and the latter we croud down into Darkness under our Feet; and a Prison under the Ground seems much more proper and natural, than a Confinement in the open Air: Truth will not bend nor yeild to vulgar Humours and Fancies. We shall therefore proceed.

 

If there is no subteraneous Hell, is there a corporeal and local one before the Day of Judgement and the Conflagaration of the World? or have they only mental Torments and Furies before the Day of the Lord? I am very much of the Opinion there are (a) no external Punishments before the Day of general Judgement. And if Souls are divested of all manner of Bodies till that Time, the Question is beyond Doubt, especially with those who expect an external Judgement, and a judicial Apparatus after the Manner of an human Consistory at the last Day, for naked and invisible Souls cannot be bought before any Tribunal, nor can they be condemned without a Hearing.

 

I know that it is alledged there is a private and particular Judgement upon Souls before the great and general one, to begin imeadiately upon the Departure from the Body: If they mean by this, the private Judgement, or condemnation of ourselves, the Stings of our Conscience, and the Accumulations of our own Guilt, that see, pass Sentence, and punish according to the Greatness and Capacity of our own Crimes, (Greek Text) I agree thereto; but no external or corporeal Punishment can take Place before the Ressurection. I know in the Parable of Dives and Lazarus, the bodies of the Defunct are immediately carried, the one to Torment and Flames, and the other into Abrahams Bosom; the same Parable makes Dives carry Tongue, Lips and the Organs of Speech, nay, his whole Body into Hell: From whence it is plain, the Narration was not true (Greek Text) but it was only a Fable, or figurative Delination, adapted to the Fancies of the Hearer, to impress theron a real Truth, that Souls remain after the Extinction of the Bodies to take their Fate of Good or Ill in another Life.

 

From whence it is plain to me, the Punishments of wicked Men, before the Day of Judgement, are internal, a Privation of Comfort, Pains of Mind, and a troubled Expectation of the great Day; therefore Hell is not opened, or lighted up before the coming of Christ, when he shall descend from Heaven (a) With his mighty Angels in flaming Fire, taking Vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the Gospel of our Lord JESUS CHRIST.

 

This is the time of that solemn Decree, when, after Judgement, both wicked Men and Devils shall be delivered up to their Pains, 2 Pet. ii. 4. Jud. ver. 6, We cannot imagine the Devils are now in fiery Tormemnts wandering through the Air, and watchfull over our Ruin; as therefore both wicked Men and Devils have the same place of punishment, and the same critical Moment of Condemnation, and the latter before the End of the World, and the coming od Christ, are not alloted to their places of Torment in Hell as is plain from the sacred Scriptures and Commentators; (see Gerrh. Tom. IX. de extrem Judic pag 78. Maldomat. on Matt viii. 29. And it is really wonderful how universal the Consent of ancient Authors, was that Devils were not tortured before the Day of Judgement) We must not therefore assign the first to that Place before, with ant Consonancy or Agreement with the sacred Scriptures.

 

So much for Hell, and the State and Place of the Wicked before the Day of Judgement. But when that fatal Day shall come, and the Wicked be called from Death, and confined to the extream punishments of Hell, another question arises, if those Punishments will last for ever, without End, or without determinate Bounds? Human Nature is terrified with the very Name of Eternal Punishments (a) that seem to carry insatiable Revenge, without Correction or Amendment. The Scripture is indeed on the other Side of the Question; our JESUS CHRIST, the tenderest Friend to human Nature, has expressly said, the Punishments of the Damned, and of the Devils, shall be eternal, when he pronounces this Sentence upon the Wicked, Depart from me, ye Cursed, into everlasting Fire, prepared for the Devil and his Angels, Matt. xxv. 41. To the same Purpose he says, When the Wheat is bought into the Barn, the Chaff shall be burnt with unquenchable Fire, Matt iii. 12. and that in Hell; The Worm dieth not, and the Fire is not quenched, Mark ix. 44.

 

These testimonies seem evidently to prove the Punishments of the Damned will be Eternal: In the same Manner of the Prophets and Apostles speak, Dan. xii. 2 Thess. i. 9. In the mean time, Reason, the Nature of God, and the Natutre of Things are on the other Side; they plead for a temperate Sentence, and to soften the Scriptures to save the Rights of God and Man, and that Christianity may not receive an irrecoverable Wound.

 

P81

 

We must adhere to the received Rules of Divines in interpreting Scripture, not to recede from the Latter without Necessity, we must therefore consider, if the Eternity of Punishments is not opposed to the plainest and most invincible Arguments: In this Case we must be excused in departing from the common and most general Sense. The very Mind is struck with the Thoughts of Eternal Misery; and so many Arguments occur on the other Side, that, with any others, I cannot help being persuaded, that God cannot, and will not punish his Creatures with Eternal Misery and Pain, nor will Nature bear it. We conceive the God of the Christians to be a wise and good Deity, not cruel and hostile to human Nature; nor in his Worship has he instituted any Thing barbarous, cruel, or inhumane (a); he neither wounds nor rends the Flesh, nor, like Moloch, pulls tender Infants, from their Mothers breasts into his burning Arms. Moreover the Captain and Head of our Christian Dispensation JESUS CHRIST, to whom the Father has delivered all Judgement, is (Greek Text), a Lover of human Nature, and shed his own Blood to redeem us from Misery. The great King and Father, with this impartial Judge, moderates the Fate of human Kind; and yet you say, the holy Scriptures have made this Father, and his Judge, condemn the greatest Part of human Kind to Eternal Punishments.

 

As to the number of the Damned, after this Life, I have very little to say, because it is to me unknown, but it is certainly repugnant to the divine Wisdom, Goodness, and Justice to condemn his creatures to Eternal Misery: To his Wisdom, because a lasting and immutable State of Misery is useless and vain; therefore foolish and (Greek Text) unworthy of God. Indefinate and indiscriminate Torments can serve neither God or Man: what End can it answer to Man, if there is no Room for Repentance, and if this Punishment does not ameliorate his Mind, if there is no intermission of Pain, no Breathings to deliberate and consider upon some Change of Fortune? Let Punisment be sharp, and even long, but let it have an End, for it bears no Fruit, and the unhappy sinners would be equally extinguished as to any future Purpose of Amendment if they were to be anihilated.

 

You will say, perhaps, the Punishment ought to keep an equal Pace with the impeity; the Damned are incurable, and for ever persevere in their Malice. But this is said (gratis?); and not only so, but the suppositionis injurious to the Dignity of the Creator and to the Divine Wisdom and Goodness to make and form human Nature in such a manner as to degenerate into a State of incurable Pravity, and with that to be fixed in irrecoverable Misery (a): This state can be agreeable only to a (Maniclean/Manichean) god. But if the great and good God would make a creature after this manner, it must be certainly with this Condition, to annihalate it when he has done for the Honour of Providence can be by no other Means preserved, than by cutting off the Incurable from Existence and not preserving what is worse than nothing. But by what arguments can you persuade me, the Souls of wicked Men, are incurable from Existence, and not preserving what is worse than nothing. But by what Arguments can you persuade me, the Souls of wicked Men, after Death, are incurable? The Fathers believed the Last Fire was (Greek Text) concerning which we have treated in the 7th Chapter (a). It does not seem congrous to the Power and Wisdom of God to oppress and extinguish with an invincible Disease; surely it cannot be so deeply rooted, but Fire will purge it out! a Remedy as searching as it is powerull and strong; even Grief will perform this, and a sense of present Misery. Moreover in another Life, when the Wicked shall see Christ coming in his Glory in the clouds with his mighty Angels, in Triumph with his Enemies under his Feet, there will be no room for their infidelity; the Fommes peccati in this Flesh (b) will be extinguished Consupisence will be no more, and the Food for Vices, for unlawful Pleasures, Ambition, Avarice, and evil Affections will be taken away; why therefore, and with what Motives can they adhere for ever to their Sins, unless they are hardened by Heaven? But if they are driven by any external Force without the Freedom of Liberty, or of Reason, they cannot in that case be called Men. But of this presently. Let us proceed.

 

We appeal to the divine Justice and Equity; whom God has made frail, he will not punish Eternally for failing, nor will he take from him the Power and Liberty of leaving his Vices who has a natural Impotence in the powers of his Mind, and an inclanation to Sin. You will say, perhaps, God does not take away the Power and Liberty, but the Will remains and persists immoveably in (?? IH or PH). I Answer, according to your Hypothesis, God has made their Nature such, they cannot be inflexible and irrecoverable when they depart this Life and go into Eternal Torments; if we grant once, the Unhappy may repent: What Proofs do you bring for the impossibility of their Repentance? If they remain rational Creatures, with Understanding and Will, they may repent; if they have neither one or the other, they cannot but sin.

 

Others argue from the divine Justice in this Manner: That is not just to punish the Errors a short and sinful Life with Eternal Pains, when there can be no proportion between the Punishment and the Crime. To this the common answer is returned, that all Sin is infinite in its Guilt, as if it is committed against an infinite God. This may, in some measure, be true, yet it is not the Proportion and Measure of the Actions of God towards his Creatures, and therefore can have no Place in any Account we give to his Dealings and Dispensations to Men; according to this Law, the lightest and most trivial Sin may be punished with Eternal Misery; Nay, and with the most weighty Pains, for the Proportion extends both in Weight and Measure; but if the least Sinners are loaded with all the Weight of Punishment, what shall be done farther to the greatest Sinners of  all?

 

P85

if the least Sin has the highest Degree, no Comparison can extend beyond the highest of all; this Reason therfore will confound all the Proportions of vindictive Justice, and render all Sins equal.

 

To proceed from the divine Justice to the Goodness of God; it is said the strictest Law is the highest Injury; I am sure it will not agree with Goodness and Mercy: For God, according to your Hypothesis, in inflicting his Punishments upon wicked Men, stretches the Law to its full Severity, and brings on the most exuisite and lasting Torments, which render the Punishment beyond Expression, heavy and intolerable. We have read of the Torments of the primitive Christians (a) in the first Ages of the Church; and what the Sicilian and other Tyrants have invented; but these are soft to the Torments of Hell and softer likewise as they are less durable (b) and vehement; eternal Grief has all the Steps and Gradations of the extreamest Misery; were the Boilings of a Fever, the Rackings of the Stone, or the Torments of the Guts to endure only SEVEN Years, what Flesh and Blood could be equal thereto? But if instead of seven you put 1000 Years, who could endure even Life? or would buy it upon such conditions? much less would accept it with Eternity.

 

You will say, perhaps, this is not the strictest Law, for God can reduce wiked Men into nothing, and that is the utmost Stretch of his Power and of his Law; I answer, Annihilation is the more preferable Wish; to have no Sense, no Feeling of Good and Evil, than to stay in perpetual and irremissable Torments; even the Light of Nature will persuade us into that State when we are weary of ourselves; it is better to think nothing than to be reflecting on Grief; the Wretch will say, even to God, in the Disorder of his Mind, I could wish not to be, and to perish, that I may not perish; this is the voice of Nature, and to omit metaphysick Levities, I appeal to all Mankind, if it is not better to have no Life, no Thought, no Existence, than to groan under Eternal Torments and Flames; and if human Nature was not more averse to (a) External Misery, than to Annihilation, surely God would have threatened the Wicked with the last, and not the first, to deter them from Sin. But to return.

 

If Annihilation is the highest Power of God over his Creatures (that he may not be the Author of more Hurt than Good); yet in this Case he seems to inflict something more bitter and severe, than the highest Extent of Law over his Criminals does require, and to go beyond the Mark must be Cruelty; and this Method, as we have before observed, of punishing eternally, has very little Agreement with the infinite Goodness, Benevolence, and Mercy of God, the Light of Nature, and the Scriptures, represent God to us, Merciful, gracious, long Suffering, abundant in Goodness and Truth (b), and even unwilling to punish, as a Work contrary to his Nature, As having no Pleasure at all the Wicked should die, saith the Lord God (c); if not a Temporal Death, much less is an Eternal one pleasing to him. From whence therefore could come this Eternal Death? to God it is hateful, and to the creature intolerable, and profitable to none.

 

P87

 

These Things being observed of the Nature of God, and his just Governments of his Creatures, let us return to the Holy Scriptures, and to their interpretation of those places that seem to favour the Eternity of future Punishments. TheControversy cheifly turns upon the Word: (Greek Text) in Hebrew (Hebrew Text) or (Hebrew Text), rendered by the Latins Eternal. The Word (Greek Text - alwvios) or (Hebrew Text), in the Scriptures has a dubious Sound, and does not always signify Eternal, but an infdefinite and long Space of Time. The Statutes of Mosaic Law are said to be Eternal, Exod, xxvi 21. xxviii 43 Lod. x 15. xvi 34 Numb. xviii 11 yet these Statutes (?) with the old Law have been long obsolete. We must therefore either soften the Sense of the Words, or make the Jewish Laws obligatory to this very Day. The Temple of Jerusalem was said to be an Habitation of God for Ever, Chron vi 2 though it has long since vanished, has not one Stone left upon another, or the least Mark of its ever having been the Habitation of God. The Kingdom of David was said to be Eternal (b) though the Kingdom passed from his Family, and is now at an End. See Epist. pag. 32. Col. 2. 6 Sect 3. 3 Sam vii. 13. 

In the old Law, the servant whose Ear was bored by his Master, was to serve for Ever, Exod. xxi. 6. and yet by that Law, all Servants were to be manumised (released from slavery) within half an Age. Moreover, before the Mosaic Law Circumcision was institutedfor Ever, Gen xvii. 7. though the divine Authority has put an end thereto. 

 

The Land of the Canaan was given to Abraham, and to his posterity, for an Heritage for Ever, Gen. xiii. 15 xvii. 8. xlviii. 4. though his Posterity from the Possession thereof. Its plain from these and many other Places, Eternity is not meant always by the Word (Hebrew) or (Hebrew), to which (Greek - Aloy?) or (Greek - alvios?) relates in the Septugaint, and in the New Testament, where the Words must be taken in a more loose Sense. See Philem 15. Jud. 7. Rom. xvi 25 2 Tim. i. 9. Tis. i. 2. (a). With the profane Greeks, Grammarians very well know, those Words have not always so strict a Sense: Nor is it of any Weight, that the same Word is appleid to Rewards and Punishments; for the Eternal Happiness of the Saints contradicts no Atributes of God, and there we have no reason to recede from the literal Sense, and words must yeild to Sense, otherwise, This is my Body, is as explicite as to say, Go into eternal Fire.

I say, from these words nothing certainly can be inferred concerning Eternity of Hell Torments. Moreover the Holy Scriptures have given us several figurative and metaphorical Touches (b) upon Hell, inconsistent with the Nature of Things to be literally true; Flames, Darkness, and extream Cold do not combine well together; how can Worms live in Flames, or be immortal in their Generations? whereas in other Places they are said to die. The Bodies of the Damned, whatever they are, or at least if they are compunded and organical, cannot withstand the Power (a) of Eternal Flames without Dissolution; the Earth cannot remain for ever in the Form it is now in, or shall be after the Conflaration, and Hell must be in one or the other (b).

 

P89

 

So far we have explained the Sense of the Words and the Nature of Things: I shall beg Leave to add in the third Place; that our Lord JESUS CHRIST upon Earth, having taken upon him the Form of a Servant, and not of a Philosopher, spoke in the Language of the Sons of Men; and of the Jews, cheifly to whom he was sent. Learned interpreters have made their observations of this Nature upon the Words of Christ; he therefore follows the Phraseology of his own Nation, and the words most known to the People, or to their Cheifs, from the Law, Prophets, or Traditions, in his instructions to promote Piety. When he speaks of Hell, he uses the Word Gehenna, and speaks of the different Degrees of Punishments (c) there in the Jewish style, according to their common sense.

Mentioning infernal Punishments, Mark ix. 44. he uses the Words of the Prophet Isiah, Chap lxvi. 24. as it is in the Septugaint: (Greek Text) For theit Worm shalt not die, neither shall their Fire bw quenched. Authors have proved it was a common and familiar Phrase with the Jews, That Fire and Worms should have the wicked. Christ made no alteration in these Expressions, nor did he endeavour to take away the Notion of the People, when it was found neccessary to restrain the Assurance of wicked Men.

 

P90 (94)

These things being duely weighed on each Side concerning the Punishments of Hell, let everyone judge as his Conscience and his Reason guide him, let him interpret the Scriptures according to the Force and Strength of Reason: If the Wisdom and Justice of the Creator will not permit Eternal Punishments to endure, nor Eternal Impiety to reign, we must leave the Letter, and search for Reason, and not offer Violence to divine Nature and Attributes: But if in this desperate and immutably wicked State, you find nothing contrary to the Nature of God, keep the literal Sense, close up your Ears, and harden your Heart to the Tears, Groans and Shrieks of those miserable Creatures.

 

If you will take my Opinion, rather call these Punishments indefinite than infinite, we know not when their End will be, and we must leave it to the Wisdom and Mercy of God; that the captives may be loosed from (a) prison when they have paid the uttermost Farthing to Justice: But if this Opinion will not please, let it be left amongst the obscure (Greek Text) and unrevealed. The Time will come (b) when this Opinion will be as absurd and ridiculous as Transubstantiation.

 

In these Days some fiery Divines will be pleased only with the Infinity of Hell Torments, and 

 

(a) Matt. v. 26
(b) The Time is almost at Hand, I fear.
 


P91

will not bear an impartial Examination of this Question; but the Ancients treated this argument in a more soft and mild Manner. So Justin Martyr, in his Dialogue with Typhon: The Souls of good Men who seem worthy to God, die no more; but the Souls of the Injust are punished as long as they exist, and God will have them suffer. St Jerome was not of a different Opinion, for though generally he was warm, fierce, impetuous, in this he shewed a never too much to be commended Moderation of Mind. In his Commentaries upon the afore said Place in Isiah, Chap. ixvi. 24. he has these words: They who will have these Punishments after many Ages to have an End, and the Torments to be finished, use these following Testimonies. After having cited the Places which seem fo favour that Opinion he adds, (d) All which they bring being desirous to allow after Torments and Miseries some Refreshments to come, which are now hid from those to whom Fear is necessary; that while they fear the Punishments, they mat abstain from Sin; which we must leave alone to the Wisdom of God, whose Mercies and whose Punishments are in balance, he knows who, how, and how long to punish. So far Jerome. He says to the same Purpose in his Commentaries upon Chap. xxiv. at the End. We must know that human Frailty cannot penetrate the Judgement of God, not conjecture concerning the Greatness and the Measure of his Punishments which are left to the Will of the Lord. So far he. Origen I need not mention, whose Opinion is so well known; and he is followed by Gregory and Nazianzene, and Nyssene. The other Fathers who would have the flames of Hell to be (Greek Text) a purging Fire, or (Greek text) Carcarative, as I said before, supported those Punishments would have an End. St Augustine calls the Patrons of this Opinion not incongrously the merciful Doctors, and treats them civilly enough, though he is sometimes puzzled to fix the Eternity of Hell Torments: I have not said this to prevent a more nice Inquiry into the Punishments of the Wicked, and in what Manner in the holy Scriptures they are said to be eternal (See Dr Hammond in 2 Thess. i. 7. **** I. 7. from St Augustine, Lib deSerm. Dom. in Mont. Tom. 4 upon Matt. v. 25. 26.) but let us know return to the Place concerning those merciful Men, and quietly to argue with them, who will not believe the Punishments of Hell are Eternally allotted to all, or to only some of those whom the most righteous Judge shall condemn to the Punishments of Hell, but in a certain Time, according to the Measure of their Iniquities, they shall be freed.

 

Thus St Augustine stated the Opinion of the Merciful Men. Those on the opposite Side of the Question may be called unmerciful Doctors, of whom one, for the rest, gives his Opinion of Hell in the following Manner: If all Men born from Adam, to this present Day, or to be born from him, should live to the last Day, and all the Spikes of Griefs that have ever sprung out of the Ground were Men, and they were to share among themselves one Punishment for a mortal Sin in Hell, equally shared amongst them, every Particle of that Pain attached to each Man would surpass all the Torments of the holy Martyrs, and al that Theives and Malefactors ever suffered put together. So far he. And if o these most bitter Pains you add Eternity, you fill up the compleat Measure of Inhumanity. We have no notion how immense Eternity is, and therefore we are very liberal in bestowing Eternal Punishments to the unhappy Wretches. Eternity is an infinite and inexhaustible Treasure of Time: Such is Eternity (says a Divine) that if a damned Person, in a thousand years, were to squeeze one Tear from his eye, it would afford Water enough, in time, to drown the whole World. To these sayings of the Fathers, let us add another Argument of some Weight. What will become of Souls of a middle Condition, I mean those who are not over pious, nor extremely wicked: they constitute the greatest Part of Mankind, thay have more of the Brute than the Devil, and yet sense enough not to be called perfectly mad, I say what shall become of these Souls? We have before observed, human Kind are to be divided into three Parts, food, evil and neutral; the Good are caried to Eternal Joys, the Evil to Eternal Torments; but whither shall the neutral Party go? they are neither adapted to Eternal Punishments, nor to Eternal Rewards. There must be some Degrees ....some Disparity in Retributions, according to the Merits of the Persons to whom the Retributions are made. Some will have the Souls of wicked Men exhausted by Torments, to give up their very Beings; according to (Arxxxx) The Souls that know not God, after long and tedious Torments


P97

monition of the above-mentioned Fathers, in their treating upon the Subject: That whatever you think in your own Breast of the Eternal Punishments, the people, to easily prone to Vice, and as easily terrified from Evil (a) must have the commonly received Doctrine. Even with the Good there are Infants, and grown up Persons, that require Milk, or more solid Food (b) according to their Strength; we must have a due Regard to each, and not to rashly change their Diet, and bring Intemperance and Diseases upon them. Therefore if any shall translate what has been said by learned Men (c) upon this Subject, into the vulgar Language, they can have no good Scope or View thereby. We ought always to have before our Eyes the Progress of Providence, in illuminating and bringing the World to Perfection, and to bend all our Studies and Endeavours that Way; that what we have heard with our Ears, we may proclaim aloud. But the Minds of some must be gradually brought to bear the Strong Rays of Truth; to much Light ill offend their tender Eyes; some cannot bear the objects directly, but take the Images in by the intermediate Reflection of Glass. We shall see every Thing Face to Face, according to the Will and Pleasure of God, at the End of this World and more fully in the next.

 

 

 

 

Edited by pi3141
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We here on the DI Forum no for well that 'the Illuminati' or PTB use FEAR as a CONTROL SYSTEM.

 

Well behold - I have revealed to you WHO originally put FEAR in PEOPLES MINDS.

 

The Church is the Illuminati and WE are their soldiers.

 

Look at the language in the chapter about 'Enlightening' and 'Illuminating' the World - who would use language like that?

 

The Illuminati.

 

In the Medieval times some Kings had access to 'Illuminated Manuscripts' these books were special books with stunning artwork that was said to be 'Illuminating' and the source of these books was the Church. Thus the Kings in Medieval time had access to Biblical documents only previously available in Latin and with stunning artwork which would serve to make an impression.

 

Our Royalty is Coronated by the Church and in turn the Royalty acknowledge the Church as spiritual power and we as Subjects obey our rulers. Hence our rulers are the Illuminati. Even our Government still adopts or accepts policies from the Church and still acknowledges the King as King. This idea of Royal Blood goes back to Paganism - it is a Pagan belief. We supposedly have an independent Government yet they follow advice of Church and Royalty. 

 

The school system we have teaches children to be Competitive with each other rather than Co-operative. If society co-operated with each other better many of our issues like poverty and homeless would disappear but we don't teach kids to put helping each other first, we teach them that they must try as individuals and be graded on their own merits and hence rewarded in society on their merits and to Hell with anyone who falls behind - thats their fault and that will take their grades down and in this way we classify citizens as succeeding or failing and instil a 'everyone's on their own' mentality - 'fail or succeed by your own merits' don't worry about the failures and the poor, that was their choice.

 

This is the Illuminati conditioning at work - it starts in the Schools and Churches and the teachers and priests are agents of this system. We all grow up with the same conditioning so when a politician makes a decision thats contrary to the poor or society, they genuinely believe they are doing the right thing. They are not Illuminati, they just act in the manner they have been conditioned to act by our system.

 

The author only originally published 3 copies that were not released to the public, it was only on his death a copy was found in his study and given to someone for safe keeping. This copy eventually found its way to America where a few more copies were published. Eventually an English translation was made and given to an Earl in England. From there a few more English copies were made, again privately, and found their way into Libraries. 

 

The idea of the 'System' is to get everyone playing by the 'Rules' (Their Rules) then the outcome is predictable.


If two teams agree to play a game and both sides stick to the rules, the outcome will be one or the other team wins the game. If one team consistently has better players then that team is assured to win most of the time. But if those who institute the Rules do not themselves stick to the Rules then they will win again and again. It is not difficult to influence a game by using better players and tactics etc, but if you also can break the rules with impunity then you are guaranteed to win. 

 

So by encouraging society to be out for themselves but always sticking to the rules, they know the outcome, be better informed they can control the game and by outright breaking the rules when it suits them they are guaranteed to win every time. 

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9 minutes ago, pi3141 said:

We here on the DI Forum no for well that 'the Illuminati' or PTB use FEAR as a CONTROL SYSTEM.

 

Well behold - I have revealed to you WHO originally put FEAR in PEOPLES MINDS.

 

The Church is the Illuminati and WE are their soldiers.

 

Look at the language in the chapter about 'Enlightening' and 'Illuminating' the World - who would use language like that?

 

The Illuminati.

 

In the Medieval times some Kings had access to 'Illuminated Manuscripts' these books were special books with stunning artwork that was said to be 'Illuminating' and the source of these books was the Church. Thus the Kings in Medieval time had access to Biblical documents only previously available in Latin and with stunning artwork which would serve to make an impression.

 

Our Royalty is Coronated by the Church and in turn the Royalty acknowledge the Church as spiritual power and we as Subjects obey our rulers. Hence our rulers are the Illuminati. Even our Government still adopts or accepts policies from the Church and still acknowledges the King as King. This idea of Royal Blood goes back to Paganism - it is a Pagan belief. We supposedly have an independent Government yet they follow advice of Church and Royalty. 

 

The school system we have teaches children to be Competitive with each other rather than Co-operative. If society co-operated with each other better many of our issues like poverty and homeless would disappear but we don't teach kids to put helping each other first, we teach them that they must try as individuals and be graded on their own merits and hence rewarded in society on their merits and to Hell with anyone who falls behind - thats their fault and that will take their grades down and in this way we classify citizens as succeeding or failing and instil a 'everyone's on their own' mentality - 'fail or succeed by your own merits' don't worry about the failures and the poor, that was their choice.

 

This is the Illuminati conditioning at work - it starts in the Schools and Churches and the teachers and priests are agents of this system. We all grow up with the same conditioning so when a politician makes a decision thats contrary to the poor or society, they genuinely believe they are doing the right thing. They are not Illuminati, they just act in the manner they have been conditioned to act by our system.

 

The author only originally published 3 copies that were not released to the public, it was only on his death a copy was found in his study and given to someone for safe keeping. This copy eventually found its way to America where a few more copies were published. Eventually an English translation was made and given to an Earl in England. From there a few more English copies were made, again privately, and found their way into Libraries. 

 

The idea of the 'System' is to get everyone playing by the 'Rules' (Their Rules) then the outcome is predictable.


If two teams agree to play a game and both sides stick to the rules, the outcome will be one or the other team wins the game. If one team consistently has better players then that team is assured to win most of the time. But if those who institute the Rules do not themselves stick to the Rules then they will win again and again. It is not difficult to influence a game by using better players and tactics etc, but if you also can break the rules with impunity then you are guaranteed to win. 

 

So by encouraging society to be out for themselves but always sticking to the rules, they know the outcome, be better informed they can control the game and by outright breaking the rules when it suits them they are guaranteed to win every time. 

 

No pattern recognition whatsoever, or even just a basic understanding of the power dynamics in society. smh

 

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More from the manuscript

 

Purgatory - A Papal invention

 

Many of the reformed theologians, fearing Purgatory, have in a way abolished every intermediate state of the souls. Namely, in avoiding vices, we often fall into the folly of running towards the opposite extremes.

 

It is well known that the Papal Purgatory is a human invention, adapted to the understanding of the people and for the use of the priesthood. And the doctrine of the Ancients regarding the incomplete happiness or misery of souls before the Day of Judgment should not be discarded due to the fear of this illusion. But as for the wicked and miserable, we already dismiss that matter. It will be sufficient to present present circumstances, neither the Holy Scriptures nor the consent of ancient faith affirm the belief of those who transfer the souls of the deceased righteous to the Celestial Kingdom and that highest glory which is called the Beatific Vision before the Resurrection and the coming of Christ.

 

snip

 

We have already mentioned that the power of the Resurrection is weakened by this supposed supreme beatitude before the Resurrection. Saint Augustine rightly asks, "What need is there for spirits to receive their bodies in the Resurrection if, even without bodies, they can attain that highest blessedness?" Therefore, among the ancients and especially in the early centuries of the Church, as we will show below, the heretics who denied the resurrection of the body either defended this premature glorification of souls alone or, more precisely, relied on it. However, in recent centuries, who does not see how this article of new faith was introduced into the Roman Church through the counsel of the wise and the politicians, in order to provide a more convenient occasion for invoking the saints and for other similar institutions, as well as for the profitable defence of dogmas? Bellarmine rightly noted that this doctrine is the foundation of all other matters related to the saints, namely, those concerning the veneration of the saints, the canonization of saints, the images of saints, the relics of saints, and, finally, pilgrimages and vows made to them. You see what a heavy chain, laden with gold and silver, this dogma carries with it. And if you add Purgatory to these matters, which is the state of souls that do not go directly to heaven but are elevated sooner or later by the prayers and suffrages of the living and the saints, you have a treasure trove richer than any Indian gold mine. But woe to those who trade in the Word of God.

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1 minute ago, EnigmaticWorld said:

@pi3141

 

Do seriously think the church is behind everything? Have you heard of Moldbug, a subversive that tried to dupe people into calling the system that we're under "the Cathedral"?

 

I'd just like to know what you thought of the previous post on Hell?

 

Did you read it and absorb it?

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Ask yourselves two questions.

 

1) Who first instilled Fear into peoples hearts and minds.

 

2) Who started the School system still in use today.

 

Answer

The Catholic Church

 

(In the Western world - obviously there were MANY fear based Pagan systems of which the Roman Catholic Church is a derivative of.)

 

The Catholic Church have been telling people - they are sinful, they will be judged, they will go to eternal torment and that there are Demons and Witches and Satan out there ready to test them and ensnare their soul to be doomed for eternity in terrible torments unless they listen and do as the Church say.

 

The school system sorts 'the Wheat from the Chaff' in that its presented as a fair system where everyone gets an equal chance if you succeed you will be rewarded with a good future and if you fail you will face a low paid job future. In the classroom it is positively frowned on if a student helps another student, hence they instil in each of us that we must do it ourselves and be judged on our merits. Thing is its not equal, if a student comes home and asks their parents a question, if the parents have been well educated they teach the child and the child returns to school with full understanding. If the parents can't help their child then the child fails. If the parents have themselves been privileged to a good education their children will succeed whereas those in a lower class will almost certainly fail. Finally if your parents can afford private tuition or private schooling you are guaranteed to succeed. So the system or game although presented as fair is anything but and turns out citizens who think they are in competition with each other rather than be helping each other - they teach competition not cooperation.

 

When you combine a fear based control and a rigged education system, which in many cases also instils fear, you control the game, especially as you determine what knowledge is allowed to be shared and who succeeds.

 

Those that succeed go onto be in positions of power and control and believe they got their by a fair system and their own merits and every one else could have done it they tried. The teachers that enter the school system to teach have been through the system and succeeded so they believe in the education system as it is. hence it just reinforces itself generation after generation.

 

 

 

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1 hour ago, pi3141 said:

When you combine a fear based control and a rigged education system, which in many cases also instils fear, you control the game, especially as you determine what knowledge is allowed to be shared and who succeeds.

 

Of course not only the RC church does this, but I was just wondering how far up does the fear-mongering go? In a hierarchical system there's always a layer at the top where it flips over from controlled to controller, obedience to authority, led to leader. Is this layer in the visible hierarchy of the church or is it secret? 

 

Also the organisation still needs a supply of people who aren't crushed by the fear trauma, to succeed in leadership, so perhaps that's the role of secret societies and orders to provide the pipeline separate from the mass of ordinary people. 

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8 hours ago, Campion said:

 how far up does the fear-mongering go? 

 

Both, kind of, what I've tried to show is the Visible.

 

Society is the way it is due the the people within that society. Those people in society have been through the influence of Church and the School system - both originating in its modern form from Rome or 'The Church'.

 

The church instils psychological fear and doubt in peoples minds and the school system grades people dictating what role they will play in society. Those that do well go on to be business and political leader who believe they got there on their own merit and hence they deserve the rewards, and to an extent, the poor deserve to be poor. The disparity in our society is rationalized by the belief that its an equal playing field and everyone gets the same chance and we all failed or succeeded on our own merit. Which it is not and the game is easily rigged with the rich being able to afford private schools. Secondly, how is it fair to judge what a person will do in society as an adult based on their actions as a child!

 

This system as we see it today has been in effect or in the making since the inception of the Roman Catholic. Prior to that you had competing mystery schools and religions and most of those were also fear based. The Roman Catholic church has assimilated teaching from various Pagan systems to create their own.

 

This thread has shown that our religion goes back through Rome and the Jews in Babylon back through Canaan and Phoenicia to Egypt and then beyond into Sumer. The work of John Allegro shows Jesus' name to have Sumerian roots and that the Jesus figure was carried through Egypt into Phoenicia.

 

The civilisation in Sumer appeared with a Religious, Language and other systems fully intact (according to our archaeological records) so we know that the 'Religion' must have been in existence prior to Sumer.

 

Now this is why its partly invisible, because it appears there is a religious school that has been in existence all through our history. At least up until the formation of the Roman Catholic Church on which 'They' had their influence or were completely in control of it.

 

I suggest that the controllers are not some invisible beings but rather right in front of our faces on a daily basis. The agents of the controllers are us - everyone who has been touched by Christianity and our School system is a product of the system/matrix and now plays their part in the system. Even the unemployed, they are playing their part, accepting their fate, being unable to help school their children and perpetuating the system.

 

The politicians are playing there part making decisions on the conditions imposed on them by business and religious leaders etc. They all think they are doing the right thing, that society is the best it could be so they won't change it.

 

Are, for instance the Jesuits or Secret Societies the 'Invisible' part. Kind of yes, but they are visible. We don't know who they all are etc but they are visible to an extent. So that their are higher ups than the Pope is almost certain, the Pope will be the public face for the faithful while the real decisions get taken in sort of committee or consensus behind the scenes.

 

However my fear is that actually there is nobody in control, and that the system is out of control, and now exists as a self perpetuating system, in itself a 'thing' and 'egregore' a 'spell' that has been cast and now continues to live and grow on its own.

 

Either that or there is - to quote the scholars - 

 

"The assumption that commends itself in these circumstances is that P was not an individual, or even a group of like minded contemporaries, but a school with an unbroken history reaching back to early Israelite times, and continuing to the Exodus and beyond."
 

And are still in existence today!

 

Hence the system was established a long time ago and the person behind the curtain, is us, and everyone you see on a daily basis.

 

The Jesuits or Freemasons or other societies are at the top if you will and thus to us, partly invisible in we don't know their dealings and visible in that we know they are their.

 

Lets not look to magical mythical beings pulling the strings, rather recognize we all play a part in the conspiracy by perpetuating the system as it is. 

 

Everyone from the unemployed to the working class to the teachers and religious leaders and doctors and businessmen to the MP's and up to royalty, its all part of the system. With everybody playing their part at their level. Tacit Consent.

 

If you instil Fear into a child, it psychologically changes them, if they then go into an education system of which they don't understand and are then judged for a lifetime on their performance.

 

Wheat from the Chaff they call it. Its sorting society by way of personal merit so it is of course completely fair.

 

But we know its not.

 

Think of the Wizard of Oz, the wizard behind the curtain was just a normal person putting on a show. But was he Evil?

No, he thought society needed a magical figure and so provided one for the good of society. It was a deception but it was in his mind, a morally justifiable deception.

 

This is the game, the trick, why everyone goes along with it, because on the face of it, it seems fair, moral and necessary.

 

 

 

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Lets take the Flat/Spherical Earth point.

 

As I posted above, it was well known in the 15th Century among the Church that the Earth is Spherical.

 

The Spherical Earth has been known since Ancient Greeks, 3-5BC. The Church formulated in about 300AD has Genesis from the Torah written (in its current form - I say it goes back further) at 400BC. The Bible describes a Flat Earth, I don't care what the Christian Apologists say - it does, if you read it properly. This Flat Earth theory was common among the common people all the way up until the 17th Century and even in the 1800's people were still espousing Flat Earth, yet the Church has known the truth since its inception.

 

So the Church propagated the myth of the Flat Earth for centuries to the common people. Do you blame the Freemasons for that? The Illuminati? The Reptilian's? A mythical extra dimension figure secretly pulling the strings?

 

No - It was the Church - History shows it. It still says it in their Bible - there are still people who believe it because of the Bible given to them by the Church.

 

Its the Church that has influenced/dictated/controlled our knowledge and its the Church that have created Fear with their fantastic stories.

 

Its the Church that instigated our Education system that programs people into what you see in society today.

 

Its still the church, my children go to a Parish school, they still get told in assembly if they are bad children they will go to Hell - it upset my eldest daughter greatly and set me off on this journey. They still get told the Bible is the word of God.

 

If that doesn't illustrate and prove 2000 years of influence and control I don't know what will.

 

 

 

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Ok here's another one -

 

Proof number 2

 

15th Century - 

 

Observe the fixed Stars, those noble Bodies far exceeding the Planets as to Bulk and Excellency; they do not, as they seem to us, stick up on the Superficies of one Covering, but they are variously dispersed over the vast Concavity of the Heavens: These Morning Stars, we may safely conclude from the Notion of the divine Power, have their Inhabitants, instructed to sing Praises to God (See Job. xxxviii. 7,) I say, they have Natives and Animals proper to the Place, and all other Things proportionally greater, according to the Dignity and Magnitude of these primary Bodies.

 

 

21st Century - 

 

VATICAN CITY (Reuters) - The Vatican’s chief astronomer says there is no conflict between believing in God and in the possibility of “extra-terrestrial brothers” perhaps more evolved than humans.


There you go, the Church believed at least in the 15th Century that the Planets we observe have other inhabitants but that was not told to the masses until 500 years later on May 13th 2008.

 

 

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Proof number 3

 

Who crowned and thus authenticated the King?

 

From where does the King, the symbolic head of our English society gain his authority and power?

 

The Church.

 

Who teaches support of the Royal Family?

 

The Education system.

 

Who set up the education system.

 

The Church.

 

 

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Where does the belief in Divine Royal Bloodlines come from?

 

It's not what Jesus taught, so why do we still honour and revere certain Bloodlines appointed/anointed by the Church.

 

It's a Pagan practice and belief.

 

What's it doing in Christianity and our Christian based society?

 

Why are the Christian church perpetuating the idea that some people are Royalty and should have command and privilege over others?

 

Did not Jesus teach we are all equal.

 

Why have Jesus' church inverted the teachings of their Messiah.

 

What does it mean to invert something spiritually?

 

 

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Politics. 

 

The Church of England maintains the right for 26 Bishops to sit in Upper Chamber of Parliment.

 

The Vatican has had a seat at the United Nations since 1964.

 

Even Putin met the Jewish leaders over the War in Ukraine to seek their shall we say acquiesce or agreement to it.

 

Don't think religions play a part in Politics? 

 

Think again.

 

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What are Britain’s oldest schools?

 

The King’s School, Canterbury – 597AD

 

Almost half a millennium before Canterbury Cathedral was consecrated, St Augustine arrived in Canterbury on a papal mission to convert King Æthelberht from anglo-saxon paganism to Christianity.

 

After successfully converting the king, St Augustine set about establishing monasteries throughout the region. The responsibility of educating the next generation of nobility on Christian doctrine and practice would fall to these institutions. 

 

Link - https://spearswms.com/wealth/britains-oldest-schools/

 

They went on to become England's official school institutions.

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