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The Keys To Religion


pi3141

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3 hours ago, pi3141 said:

Rosicrucian Christianity Lectures

 

 

P150 - 154

The Jews located their temples so that the four corners pointed N.E., S.E., S.W., and N.W., and the sides directly North, East, South, and West, and like all solar temples the main entrance was in the East, so that the rising Sun might illumine its portal and herald each day the victory of light over the powers of darkness; this to bring to the nascent humanity the message that the contest of light and darkness on the material plane is but the counterpart of a similar contest in the moral and mental worlds where the human soul is groping its way towards the light, for the battle of light and darkness in the material world, like all other phenomena, is a suggestion of the realities in the invisible realms, and these truths were given to man as myths by divine leaders who led him until his growing intellect gave birth to arrogance which caused his benefactors to withdraw, and let him learn by the hard knocks of experience. Then he forgot them and has come to regard the ancient stories of gods and demigods as imaginary.

 

Yet, even the early Christian church was imbued with this knowledge of the significance of the solar myth, for the Cathedral of St. Peter at Rome is built facing East, like all other solar temples, telling humanity of the “Great Light of the World” who is to come and dispel the spiritual darkness which as yet envelops us; the Light-bringer who shall bring peace on Earth and good will among men, causing the nations to beat their swords into plough-shares and their spears into pruning-hooks.

 

The Jews greeted the Sun with the Morning-sacrifice; and took leave of him at sunset in a similar manner by an evening oblation, offering up on their sabbath an additional sacrifice to the lunar “Race-god,” Jehovah. Him they also worshiped by sacrifice at the New Moon.

 

One great feast was Easter, when they celebrated the Passover; the time when the Sun “passes over” his “easter(n) node; leaving the southern hemisphere where he winters and commencing his northern journey in his chariot of fire, hailed with joy by men as their savior from hunger and cold which would inevitably result if he stayed in south declination always.


The last of the Jewish feasts and the most important is the feast of the Tabernacles, when the Sun crosses it western node in autumn, having yielded to man the “bread of life” wherewith to sustain his material being until the next return of the Sun to the northern heavens.

 

For the above reasons the six southern signs which the Sun occupies in winter are always called “Egypt,” the “land of the Philistines,” etc.—a name for something that is bad for “God’s people”; whereas the northern signs in which the Sun is in the fruitful season are “heaven,” “the promised land,” which “flows with milk and honey.”

 

We see this in such passages as the one where the celebration of the Passover is enjoined “to remember the coming out of Egypt.” This feast is a rejoicing over the emergence of the Sun from the southern signs, also from the recorded fact that Jacob was with Joseph in Egypt when he died. At the winter solstice when the Sun of the past year has completed its journey and reached its lowest degree of south declination it is in the zodiacal sign Sagittarius. By reference to Genesis 49:24 where the dying Jacob speaks of the “bow” of Joseph, it is easy to identify him with the sign Sagittarius which represents a centaur in the act of drawing his bow, and thus the story of Jacob dying in Egypt with Joseph, is re-enacted each year when the Sun dies in the sign Sagittarius at the winter solstice.

 

The story of Samson is another phase of the solar myth. As long as Samson’s hair was allowed to grow, his strength would increase; Samson is the Sun, and its rays represent Samson’s hair. From the winter solstice in December to the summer solstice in June the Sun’s rays grow, and he gains in strength with every day. This frightens the “powers of darkness,” the winter months, the Philistines, for if this Light-bringer continues to reign their kingdom will come to an end; and they counsel together against Samson to discover wherein his strength lies. They secure the cooperation of the woman Delilah, which is the sign Virgo, and when Samson, the Sun, passes through that sign in September he is said to have laid his head in the woman’s lap, and to have confided his secret to her. She shears him of his locks, for at that time the rays of the Sun grow shorter, and lose their strength. Then the Philistines or winter months come and carry the debilitated giant into their prison: the southern signs where the Sun is in winter.

 

They put out his eyes or deprive him of his light and at last bring him to their temple, their stronghold, at the winter solstice; there they subject him to infamous indignities, believing they have vanquished the light completely, but with his last remaining strength the fettered solar giant shatters their temple and although he dies in the effort, he overcomes his enemies and thus leaves the way clear for another Sun-child to be born to save humanity from the cold and famine which would result if he had remained bound in the toils of the powers of darkness, the Philistines, the winter months.

 

The lives of all the saviors of mankind are also founded upon the passage of the Sun around the circle of the zodiac, which pictures the trials and triumphs of the Initiate, and the fact has given rise to the erroneous conclusion that these saviors never existed, that the stories are merely Sun-myths. This is wrong. All divine teachers sent to man are cosmic characters, and the ordering of their lives is in accord with the marching orbs, which contain, as it were, an anticipated biography of their lives. Each came with divine spiritual light and knowledge to help man to find God, and therefore the events in their lives were in accord with the events which the physical light-bearer, the Sun, encounters on his pilgrimage through the year.

 

The Saviors are all born of an immaculate Virgin, at the time when darkness is greatest among mankind, as the Sun of the coming year is born, or begins his journey, on the longest night of the year, when the zodiacal sign Virgo, the Virgin, stands on the eastern horizon in all latitudes between 10 and 12 P.M. She remains as immaculate as ever, after she has given birth to her Sun-child; hence we see the Egyptian goddess Isis sitting on the crescent moon nursing her divine Babe Horus; Astarte, the immaculate lady of Babylon, with her babe Tammuz and a crown of seven stars over her head; the lady Devaki in India with her infant Krishna, and our own Virgin Mary giving birth to the Saviour of the Western World under the star of Bethlehem. Everywhere the same story: the immaculate Mother—the divine Babe—and the Sun, Moon, or stars.

 

As the material Sun is weak and has to flee from the powers of darkness, so all these divine light-bringers are searched for and forced to flee from the powers of the world; and like the Sun, they always escape. Jesus fled before King Herod. King Kansa and King Maya are his counterparts in other religions. The baptism occurs at the time when the Sun passes through the sign Aquarius, the Waterman, and when he goes through the sign of the Fishes in March we have the fast of the Initiate, for Pisces is the last of the southern signs, and all the stores laid by from the bounteous gifts of the Sun of the previous year are nearly exhausted, and man’s food is scant. The fish-food of Lent which occurs at this time is a further corroboration of this solar origin of the fast At the vernal equinox the sun “crosses the equator” and at that time the “crossification” or crucifixion occurs, for then the Sun-god commences to give his life as food for his worshipers, ripening the corn and the grape, which is made into the “bread and wine.” To do that he must leave the equator and soar heavenward. Similarly it would benefit humanity nothing spiritually if their saviors stayed with them, therefore they soar heavenwards as “sons (or suns) of righteousness,” ministering to the faithful from above, as the Sun does for man when high in the heavens.

 

The Sun attains its highest point of north declination at the summer solstice; he then sits upon “the throne of his father,” the Sun of the previous year; but he cannot remain there more than three days, then he is carried downwards towards his western node. Likewise the Saviors of mankind ascend to the throne of the Father, to be reborn from time to time for the good of mankind, which truth is embodied in the sentence of the Nicene creed: “thence he shall return.”

 

 

 

There is one glory for the sun & another for the son of God ✝️

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20 hours ago, alexa said:

There is one glory for the sun & another for the son of God ✝️

 

We are all sons and daughters of God, Alexa, nobody is more special than another.

 

If you accept that God personally fathered a child, different to the rest of us, then I think you have to accept Royalty or a certain tribe of people who are 'closer to God' because they were first, as being more special than you or I. So now we have to start dividing the human race up into who's more special than the others.

 

Thats division and leads to the dark side, from where it came.

 

 

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6 minutes ago, pi3141 said:

If you accept that God personally fathered a child, different to the rest of us, then I think you have to accept Royalty or a certain tribe of people who are 'closer to God' because they were first,

 

Sorry but I don't have to accept anything, just to know that God fathered himself as a man called Jesus who is very special, is good enough for me.

Read Revelation 12. 

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3 minutes ago, alexa said:

Sorry but I don't have to accept anything, just to know that God fathered himself as a man called Jesus who is very special, is good enough for me.

Read Revelation 12. 

 

And where does that faith get you?

 

Jesus said, 'these things I do you will do greater' 

 

Does your faith allow you to cure the sick or perform miracles?

 

I just received my Anchor copy of Revelations, I will of course read it at some point. I read the KJV version of Revelations long ago.

But I know Revelations to be a bunch of nonsense so I don't put any stock in it.

 

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2 hours ago, pi3141 said:

I just received my Anchor copy of Revelations, I will of course read it at some point. I read the KJV version of Revelations long ago.

But I know Revelations to be a bunch of nonsense so I don't put any stock in it.

 

Well happy reading, I hope you find what your looking for.

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13 hours ago, pi3141 said:

I just received my Anchor copy of Revelations, I will of course read it at some point.

 

Can you give me a link to buying this book as I'd like to make sure i am buying the right one. Thanks

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10 hours ago, alexa said:

I'm please for you, care to share ?

 

Lol - Let me tell you a story...

 

About 8 years ago I was putting my eldest daughter to bed and she burst into tears. I asked what was wrong and she said 'she didn't want to go to Hell' I asked her why she thought that and she explained the Reverend had been in assembly that morning and told all the children if they was naughty they might go to Hell.

 

So I calmed her down as best I could. Afterwards I realised, I had to do something, I couldn't let her carry a weight like that. Unfortunately, very soon after, I had a breakdown. The whole nine yards, thought I was a Son Of God, I was talking to dead people, I built a Cross the size of my garage to keep the devil out. I saw a spiritual ladder in my garden that led up to God, I started talking in rhyme. This culminated in me driving my car up and down the motorway at 130mph with my eyes closed and my arms spread out like a cross, willing God to take me.

 

Saved by Angels that night, and that wasn't the first time, I had a couple of near death experiences as a child where I'm sure I was saved.

 

Well I lived, I got help. I couldn't do much at first, the medication I was on took away my memory and concentration. After a few years when I had reduced my medication, I tried reading a book - one that had been recommended to me by a DIF member called 'The Apprentice' the book was called 'The Devils Pulpit by Reverend Taylor' I was blown a way, his book led to another, then another, somehow books came into my life that built on the previous book and added to my understanding - Devils Pulpit, Two Baylons by Rev Hilsop, Leo Tolstoy and eventually I found Madam Blavatsky Isis Unveiled where she stated that in the original Bible there is no mention of Hell or Lucifer.

 

I knew from my reading of conspiracy books that there was a publication called the Anchor Bible series that was a literal and accurate translation. But I had looked into buying a copy and found it was a series of books, with the translation, but also a load of commentary. To buy the series was about £5000-6000. So I never bought it.

 

But after reading Isis Unveiled, I had to get a copy, if I could show my daughter that in the Bible there is no Hell then my task was complete. Then I had a brainwave - Ebay! So I looked, and sure enough I could buy second hand copies a lot cheaper than new. So I bought Mathew, read it and found Mathew 16-18 and read that Jesus actually said - Rock, you are Peter and on this rock.... the powers of death shall not prevail, not the Gates of Hell shall not prevail.

 

So I had my proof.

 

But I found the commentary and notes hugely informative, so I bought more, read more, now I have 10 Anchor books, cost me about £300-400 so far but I feel confident to debate any Christian on scripture and doctrine because I hold a copy of the original documents.

 

Well, how did I know I was right?

 

I didn't.

 

So I consulted a Medium, she told me I already knew the truth.

 

Well I wanted  a bit more so I started attending a Spiritual Church. Not much happened for a few weeks.

 

Then they had a Medium in - a practising Vicar, she came to me and said ' have you been reading old books?' I said yes, she told me I had been led to find those books. I said ok but I'm not really sure about what I'm reading and the conclusions I'm making and whether I was on the right path. She told me I was absolutely on the right path and those books and information were meant for me to find.

 

Then I started attending a Unitarian Church and after the service we gather for talks and I mentioned about there being no Hell in the Bible and they told me they also knew that to be true.

 

Now I'm buying more and more books in the Anchor series, I got some Bible study software and I mainly limit myself to recognized scholarly work on the Bible, but I'm a spiritualist, I have the gift, so I also delve into occult works when I'm led to them and I read Freemasonry.

 

Now I feel I have come to the truth, and my conclusion is that the Bible is a fiction, Jesus is a fiction - BUT - its more like a DocuDrama (Based on real events, names and places changed to protect the innocent) 

 

There WAS a man, but his name wasn't Jesus and he wasn't born on Christmas day nor did he get crucified, thats like Hollywood adding to the story to sex it up.

 

In the post on previous page from the Rosicrucians it says this - 

 

The lives of all the saviors of mankind are also founded upon the passage of the Sun around the circle of the zodiac, which pictures the trials and triumphs of the Initiate, and the fact has given rise to the erroneous conclusion that these saviors never existed, that the stories are merely Sun-myths. This is wrong. All divine teachers sent to man are cosmic characters, 

 

all saviours just myths? No. This is wrong.

 

I believe this - we have had divine teachers, the real person the fictional Jesus was based on was one such man - who he was is lost to us, as is Jesus' real name and his real date of birth. But someone existed. I don't deny that.

 

I also don't deny that some of the core doctrines of the Bible are correct - you have a soul, there is a God, we are going to Heaven. But I'm afraid the good that is in the Bible is buried beneath a load of lies, exaggerations and fantasies.

 

According to the spiritualists a man called Appolonius of Tyana was the real person the Jesus figure was based on, he became Paul of the Bible and his letters, the Pauline Epistles, are the closest we can get to the real Christian teachings.

 

My father used to reference Jesus as 'The Nazarene' he was a medium. The teachings of Jesus also paralleled Buddhism, it appears the teachings attributed to Jesus may have come from many influences. The Buddhists have a record of Jesus staying with them, learning and taking the teachings back with him. They called him 'Esa'

 

Take a look at 'The Hidden Story of Jesus by Robert Beckworth' its on youtube.

 

There's Gnosticism in the Bible, Jesus the Nasorean identifies Jesus as a priest in the Mandean sect of Gnostics that left the Holy Land during the Jewish persecutions. Jesus was a priest in the order of Melzicheck and Jesus' brother James was the leader of the Essenes.

 

So we have Buddhist influence, Gnostic, Essene, we have Appolonius, Esa intertwinned in the story. The conclusion is the Bible Jesus is a tapestry of many teachers rolled into one fabulous story, framed on Sun, Fire and Water worship, with a dollop of Fertility cult and Mushroom cults mixed in the bag.

 

Archaeology has proved that the Romans crucified people on a stake, not a cross, just like the Jehovah witnesses have been saying all along. So the iconic image of Jesus on the cross is wrong, in other words, made up, fiction.

 

His name is wrong, his DoB is wrong, his death is wrong, the teachings he gave can be shown to have been taught by others from an earlier time.

The God Yahweh has now been shown to be from the Canannites as is Asherah, another figure mentioned in the Bible. We see the original texts don't say Hell but Hades or Tartarus - both taken from Pagan mythology. It is now undeniable that the Bible was drawn from earlier sources not unique to the Christians, or should I say Chrestians?

 

Scholars have shown the Flood myth, the Exodus, the Antichrist and Satan myths are all drawn from earlier pre-christian sources. The names of the Gods have been shown to be the same, taken from earlier Pagan pantheons, we see YHWH on an Egyptian Temple. The Bible texts have been accurately translated and we see what they really say now.

 

The evidence is mounting and for me having spent the last 6 years studying it for the sake of my children, I'm convinced.
 

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52 minutes ago, alexa said:

Can you give me a link to buying this book as I'd like to make sure i am buying the right one. Thanks

 

Yep. There are actually two versions in the series, this one is the original -

 

Revelation by J. Massyngberde Ford

 

s-l1600.jpg

 

 

 

You should also get a copy of this - 

 

The Antichrist legend;
by Bousset, Wilhelm, 1865-1920; Keane, A. H. (Augustus Henry), 1833-1912

 

Link - https://archive.org/details/antichristlegen00keangoog

 

 

 

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On 7/26/2023 at 9:53 AM, pi3141 said:

 

Yep. There are actually two versions in the series, this one is the original -

 

Revelation by J. Massyngberde Ford

 

s-l1600.jpg

 

 

 

You should also get a copy of this - 

 

The Antichrist legend;
by Bousset, Wilhelm, 1865-1920; Keane, A. H. (Augustus Henry), 1833-1912

 

Link - https://archive.org/details/antichristlegen00keangoog

 

 

 

 

Thanks - I've ordered this book, when it arrives I'll have a read a read and get back to you.

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18 hours ago, alexa said:

Thanks - I've ordered this book, when it arrives I'll have a read a read and get back to you.

 

Oh cool!

 

I can't wait to read it myself, I haven't been reading the Bible for a month or so now because I've been working on something else. But knowing how informative the Anchor Bible series are - as well as an accurate translation, I know Revelations will be interesting.

 

There are 3 'scholarly' works on this that I know and have read - the one I gave you before from Bousset was the reference for Revelations for a century, but then a new work was done -

 

The Origins and Early Development of the Antichrist Myth
Gregory C. Jenks
Volume 59 in the series Beihefte zur Zeitschrift für die neutestamentliche Wissenschaft

 

The series Beihefte zur Zeitschrift für die neutestamentliche Wissenschaft (BZNW) is one of the oldest and most highly regarded international scholarly book series in the field of New Testament studies. Since 1923 it has been a forum for seminal works focusing on Early Christianity and related fields (from Google books)

 

 

The 3rd scholarly book will be the Anchor Bible of Revelations.

 

As I said before there actually two versions now in the Anchor series, the one from 1971, which was first, and I don't know why, they reprinted a new version, with a new translator. So, I'll probably have to buy that to!

 

Anyway, hope you enjoy and I've got another post for you, which I'll post in a bit, still working on it.

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On 7/26/2023 at 9:51 AM, pi3141 said:

Scholars have shown the Flood myth

I was going to make a comment about this, but instead I'll ask a different question, what knowledge do you have of the antidiluvian era? 

 

That post I took this from was really good by the way. I see all the connections to Buddhism, Egypt, Hinduism, Rome, and certainly the trinity that is portrayed in all. That's what I find fascinating, the same story told however many different ways, but through all these major religions throughout the world. 

 

I'd go as far to say that they're all cannanite religions. I came across something the other day that I didn't know before. 

 

The Knights Templar logo is actually the letter T in the Phoenician alphabet. Why is that? A supposedly Christian fraternity using a symbol from an ancient language, why? You also see this in Buddhism, Hinduism and Islam. There are also other symbols that they all share, why? Apart from characters in the respective religions, these stories are uncannily similar, it's actually quite mind blowing. So we have major religions all over in different cultures, in different time periods, telling the same fables. How and why? A similar character imparting similar knowledge throughout the world through these religions. The similarity is crazy. 

 

So that got me thinking about what the Templars found, what relics did  they find and what knowledge did they bury? It's clear to me that this particular point in history is when things really began to change. There was with, absolute certainty, a concerted effort to change, rewrite and manipulate history, with the biggest period of fraud coming from the Renaissance period. 

 

I also believe there is a huge obsession by TPTB surrounding the antidiluvian period and their further obsession to find relics, manuscripts, anything to do with that period. Why else would a Christian based group use an ancient languages symbol? 

 

All fascinating stuff. Graham Hancock's documentary on Netflix is actually really good and certainly blows any suggestion that man's early exploits beyond hunter gathers, was far beyond the script they tell us and the evidence is everywhere. 

 

If you know anymore about that period, I'd like to discuss it with you, it's an interesting subject to me. 

Knights.png

Phoenician_alphabet.jpg

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10 hours ago, pi3141 said:

As I said before there actually two versions now in the Anchor series, the one from 1971, which was first, and I don't know why, they reprinted a new version, with a new translator. So, I'll probably have to buy that to!

 

This is the one I have ordered 1971, it is a used book and it cost $18 & as it is coming from the united states the postage cost is $23, so in total it came to about £33, & I can't wait to read it.😀 

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42 minutes ago, alexa said:

This is the one I have ordered 1971, it is a used book and it cost $18 & as it is coming from the united states the postage cost is $23, so in total it came to about £33, & I can't wait to read it.😀 

 

Yep - thats how I do it, get em cheap on ebay, whether you like the book or not, it will be a great reference for you.

 

The post below is for you, its a continuation of my last post to answer what I have found.

 

 

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Hell in Christianity

 

In Christian theology, Hell is the place or state into which, by God's definitive judgment, unrepentant sinners pass in the general judgment, or, as some Christians believe, immediately after death (particular judgment).[1][2] Its character is inferred from teaching in the biblical texts, some of which, interpreted literally, have given rise to the popular idea of Hell.[1] Theologians today generally see Hell as the logical consequence of rejecting union with God and with God's justice and mercy.[1]

 

Different Hebrew and Greek words are translated as "Hell" in most English-language Bibles. These words include:

Sheol, Gehenna, Tartarus (and Hades)

 

Link - Wiki


Valley of Hinnom (Gehenna)

 

The Valley of Hinnom (Hebrew: גֵּיא בֶן־הִנֹּם‎, romanized: Gēʾ ḇen-Hīnnōm, lit. 'Valley of Hinnom’s son'[1]) is a historic valley surrounding Ancient Jerusalem from the west and southwest.[2] The valley is also known by the name Gehinnom (גֵיא־הִנֹּם‎ Gēʾ-Hīnnōm, lit. 'Valley of Hinnom'), an alternative Biblical Hebrew form which survived into Aramaic and has received various fundamental theological connotations, and by the Greek and Syriac transliteration Gehenna (Γέεννα Géenna/ܓܼܼܗܲܢܵܐ Gihanna).[3]

 

The Valley of Hinnom is first mentioned in the Hebrew Bible as part of the border between the tribes of Judah and Benjamin (Joshua 15:8). During the late First Temple period, it was the site of the Tophet, where some of the kings of Judah had sacrificed their children by fire (Jeremiah 7:31).[4] Thereafter, it was cursed by the biblical prophet Jeremiah (Jeremiah 19:2–6).[5] In later Jewish rabbinic literature, Gehinnom became associated with divine punishment in Jewish Apocalypticism as the destination of the wicked.[6] It is different from the more neutral term Sheol, the abode of the dead. The King James Version of the Bible translates both with the Anglo-Saxon word hell.

 

Link - Wiki


Extract from - De Statu Mortuorum et Resurgentium - On the State of the Dead and of the Resurrection
Thomas Burnet (c. 1635? – 27 September 1715) 

 

P41

It is well known that the Papal Purgatory is a human invention, adapted to the understanding of the people and for the use of the priesthood. And the doctrine of the Ancients regarding the incomplete happiness or misery of souls before the Day of Judgment should not be discarded due to the fear of this illusion. But as for the wicked and miserable, we already dismiss that matter. It will be sufficient to present present circumstances, neither the Holy Scriptures nor the consent of ancient faith affirm the belief of those who transfer the souls of the deceased righteous to the Celestial Kingdom and that highest glory which is called the Beatific Vision before the Resurrection and the coming of Christ.

 

P54
We have already mentioned that the power of the Resurrection is weakened by this supposed supreme beatitude before the Resurrection. Saint Augustine rightly asks, "What need is there for spirits to receive their bodies in the Resurrection if, even without bodies, they can attain that highest blessedness?" Therefore, among the ancients and especially in the early centuries of the Church, as we will show below, the heretics who denied the resurrection of the body either defended this premature glorification of souls alone or, more precisely, relied on it. However, in recent centuries, who does not see how this article of new faith was introduced into the Roman Church through the counsel of the wise and the politicians, in order to provide a more convenient occasion for invoking the saints and for other similar institutions, as well as for the profitable defense of dogmas? Bellarmine rightly noted that this doctrine is the foundation of all other matters related to the saints, namely, those concerning the veneration of the saints, the canonization of saints, the images of saints, the relics of saints, and, finally, pilgrimages and vows made to them. You see what a heavy chain, laden with gold and silver, this dogma carries with it. And if you add Purgatory to these matters, which is the state of souls that do not go directly to heaven but are elevated sooner or later by the prayers and suffrages of the living and the saints, you have a treasure trove richer than any Indian gold mine. But woe to those who trade in the Word of God.

 

The above 2 paragraphs are translated extracts from the Latin text that currently I have been unable to source an English translation for (out of print)

 

My thoughts.

 

The idea of 'going to Gehenna' was simply this, the valley outside Jerusalem was turned into a rubbish tip. To keep the area sanitized they set fire to it. If you were a criminal and executed your body would be dumped in the Valley of Gehenna where it would be set alight to on a daily basis and burnt for eternity. Your bones left on display to all and sundry. This would be the most shameful end an ancient could imagine. To not have a proper burial was the most shameful thing that could happen. Hence to be unceremoniously dumped in Gehenna without a proper burial where your remains would burn for an eternity was a terrible end. The idea for Hell has morphed out of this and the Egyptian burial ceremony and the ditch called Tartarus, which no doubt was also burned to cleanse it.

 

The Christian word Hell has been found to be inserted in the scripture in place of the original words, this has been done to to support a doctrine. Purgatory was added later by a Pope and is recognized as a financial vehicle for the church. This reveals it to be a scam, a sham, a spiritual con to gain financial benefit and exert control over people.

 

Its a disgraceful scam that plays on the insecurities and fears of innocent people. If a member of a congregation confides to a priest they think a loved one was sinful. The priest can prescribe a never ending course of candles, prayers and religious duties a person can carry on indefinitely, filling the churches riches while having no effect on the dead persons soul. Its a wicked scam to play on people.

 

The fact is, if you live in fear then you are easily controlled. The fear of God puts fear in peoples hearts and as such they can be controlled by those who seemingly have power in such matters - the church.

 

Only the church know the truth, only they can intercede or offer the correct advice, but it will cost you, your loyalty and your money.

 

Just because I reject the Christian doctrines on Hell, Satan, Lucifer, Original Sin, Predestination, Raptures and all the other fantasies offered up by that institution, I do not reject the message entirely. We have a soul, there is a God or creative force, it matters what we do down here.

 

A good explanation I can offer regarding death is this extract - 

 

Rosicrucian Christianity Lecture extract on Purgatory.

P87
There is no transforming power in death; the man’s character has not changed, the vicious man and the drunkard are vicious and dissipated still, the miser is a miser still, the thief is as dishonest as ever, but there is one great and important change in them all—they have all lost their dense body, and that makes all the difference in regard to the gratification of their various desires.

 

The drunkard cannot drink; he lacks the stomach, and though he may and at first often does, get into the whiskey casks of the saloons, it is no satisfaction to him, for whiskey in a cask does not give out fumes as it does during chemical combustion in the alimentary canal. He then tries the effect of getting into the dense body of drunkards on earth. He succeeds easily for the desire body is so constituted that it is no inconvenience to occupy the same space with another person.

 

snip

 

P88
This is “Purgatory,” and we note that it is not an avenging deity who measures out the suffering, or a devil who executes the judgment, but the evil desires cultivated in earth life, incapable of gratification in the Desire World, that cause the suffering, until in time they burn out. Thus the suffering is strictly proportionate to the strength of the evil habit. Take the case of the miser; he loves gold as dearly after death as before, but cannot gather any more; he has no physical hand wherewith to grasp, and worst of all, cannot protect what he had. He may sit watching in front of his safe, but the heirs may come and put their hands right through him, take away his cherished gold, perhaps laughing at the “stingy old fool” while he is nearly in a spasm with rage and mortification. He suffers terribly because unable to check them. At last, however, he learns to content himself; he is automatically purged of grasping, as was the drunkard of drink, by the Law of Consequence, which eradicates from each person his faults in an impersonal way. There is in truth no punishment, all suffering is entirely due to our self-acquired habits, is strictly proportionate to them.


Jesus said the door is narrow, well yes, but there are other doors, its just the door to the highest Kingdom of God is especially narrow, but we will all pass through a 'door' so to speak, to a new realm when we cross over.

 

Cross over. Crossification. Crucifixion. 

 

Are we Judged? Yes, but not by an Imp assigned to you a birth by Satan who watches your deeds and writes them down to be presented at a court. This idea is Pagan and once again comes to from the Egyptians by way of the Greeks. 

 

In ancient Egypt they had an island designated for burial sites and when someone bought a deceased to the site, there were 3 priests who enquired about the life of the deceased. If the deceased was judged to be worthy, they would be put on the boat, ferried across the river and given a burial in a proper site with all the honours. If they were judged to be unworthy their body was dumped in a ditch on the side of the lake and that ditch was called Tartarus.

 

Hence the Greeks took the story of Judgement, ferryman of the dead and the infernal place Tartarus from the Egyptians and assimilated the concept into their mythology which the got picked up and taken into Christianity.

 

The concept of Hell as painted by the Christians is an enormous distortion from Egyptian practices and mystery school beliefs.

 

The concept of Purgatory is a spiritual scam to make money.

 

You will judge yourself, you alone are conscious of all your deeds and thoughts, there is no demon or imp or god watching everything you do. This is a nonsense, Pagan superstitious nonsense. WE'RE NOT THAT SPECIAL!

 

The underworld is in this plane, if you do not rise when you pass over you will still be on this plane until you learn your lesson and are allowed to move on, as described above.

 

This is similar to the Buddhist belief in reincarnation, except they are using the device - the belief in reincarnation - that we have to come back again and again - to effect the change that the Christians hope to do by the fear of God in the doctrine of Hell. in other words, scare people into being good. its just the Christian method is far more shocking, more extreme than the Buddhist. But both doctrines seek to effect the same change in people.

 

The problem is, the belief in Hell puts genuine fear into people, and as stated, people living in fear are easily controlled for the gain of power and material wealth by the controllers. People who pass in fear, well thats something else.

 

Look at the Catholic church - they tell their faithful to reject material things while they themselves are  the richest institution in the world! The hypocrisy is mind boggling, and so is their lies, it has been said before - the bigger the lie, the more people will believe it.

 

For me, the explanation is energy. We are energetic beings, I know we wear a meat suit while down here but our true nature is energy. I see our souls as having a particular energy signature and when we die the soul will ascend to wherever its signature is suited to.

 

For a pictorial example I give the balloon. A helium balloon when released will ascend to a height where the internal pressure or density is equal to the atmospheric density. it finds its home and stays there until a change occurs.

 

Our souls are similar except we're talking about energy and frequency or a location in the sky. Your soul will attain a certain signature and it will ascend to where its energetic signature matches. Then you will undergo more purification until a new signature is developed and once again you will ascend.

 

On the other side, what you think, you manifest, this is why you must not cross over in fear. Nobody wants you manifesting fear or Hell over on that side. If you cross in fear you'll be segregated so your fears only affect yourself, until you learn to deal with them.

 

We are on this journey until we reunite with the Godhead or God energy.

 

This I believe - 

 

John 10:9-16
New King James Version
9 I am the door. If anyone enters by Me, he will be saved, and will go in and out and find pasture. 10 The thief does not come except to steal, and to kill, and to destroy. I have come that they may have life, and that they may have it more abundantly.


The one we call Jesus the Christ showed us the way.

 

His truth is beautiful and simple. He broke the chains. He established the kingdom. 

 

He's not coming back to do it again, he's to far advanced in his Fathers mansions - to use language every Christian understands.

 

We don't need him to come back, we know what to do - his message was clear, there is a God, one God, you have a soul, there is life after death in heaven and if you live well your reward will be a higher heaven. The instruction given was 'Treat everyone as you wish yourself to be treated' if we all did that we would have heaven on Earth. Resist not evil and don't be tempted because its not worth it for whatever temporary gains you make down here.

 

He was correct, if you lead a shameful life you'll end up with a shameful end, and when you cross over with guilt in your heart you'll end up in a bad place. That place will be your own Hell, to use the language everyone will understand. You will be put in a room in the mansion by yourself to manifest whatever dark thoughts you hold until you work it out and find the light. If you follow his example you will end up in pastures of green that go on and on forever. This is the way. In both cases, once you've adjusted, got the hang of it, you will be free to move on. Or you could go back to your soul group where you'll get another chance but it won't be back here.

 

Some have corrupted the message and turned it into a dark spell. Although the light isn't completely gone. 

 

People live in fear because of that spell, been put to death and imprisoned because of it, Witch hunts, Inquisitions, Burnings, even of children, lootings, persecutions, tortures, all the while the church has gained immense wealth and power because of it.

 

'By their fruits ye shall know them.'
 

 

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8 hours ago, Morpheus said:

I was going to make a comment about this, but instead I'll ask a different question, what knowledge do you have of the antidiluvian era? 

 

That post I took this from was really good by the way. I see all the connections to Buddhism, Egypt, Hinduism, Rome, and certainly the trinity that is portrayed in all. That's what I find fascinating, the same story told however many different ways, but through all these major religions throughout the world. 

 

I'd go as far to say that they're all cannanite religions. I came across something the other day that I didn't know before. 

 

The Knights Templar logo is actually the letter T in the Phoenician alphabet. Why is that? A supposedly Christian fraternity using a symbol from an ancient language, why? You also see this in Buddhism, Hinduism and Islam. There are also other symbols that they all share, why? Apart from characters in the respective religions, these stories are uncannily similar, it's actually quite mind blowing. So we have major religions all over in different cultures, in different time periods, telling the same fables. How and why? A similar character imparting similar knowledge throughout the world through these religions. The similarity is crazy. 

 

So that got me thinking about what the Templars found, what relics did  they find and what knowledge did they bury? It's clear to me that this particular point in history is when things really began to change. There was with, absolute certainty, a concerted effort to change, rewrite and manipulate history, with the biggest period of fraud coming from the Renaissance period. 

 

I also believe there is a huge obsession by TPTB surrounding the antidiluvian period and their further obsession to find relics, manuscripts, anything to do with that period. Why else would a Christian based group use an ancient languages symbol? 

 

All fascinating stuff. Graham Hancock's documentary on Netflix is actually really good and certainly blows any suggestion that man's early exploits beyond hunter gathers, was far beyond the script they tell us and the evidence is everywhere. 

 

If you know anymore about that period, I'd like to discuss it with you, it's an interesting subject to me. 

Knights.png

Phoenician_alphabet.jpg

 

Thanks.

 

Interesting. The Phoenicians have a lot to answer for.

 

The T, the mystical Tau.

 

From Wiki -

 

Tau

Tau was derived from the Phoenician letter taw  (𐤕).[5] Letters that arose from tau include Roman T and Cyrillic Te (Т, т).

 

Tau Cross

The tau cross is a T-shaped cross, sometimes with all three ends of the cross expanded.[1] It is called a “tau cross” because it is shaped like the Greek letter tau,[2] which in its upper-case form has the same appearance as Latin letter T.

 

Another name for the same object is Saint Anthony's cross[3] or Saint Anthony cross,[4] a name given to it because of its association with Saint Anthony of Egypt.

 

 

So the source of this symbol is associated with Phoenicia and Egypt, once again.

 

The Phoenicians came to England and established Londinium, they almost certainly interacted with the Druids who also worshipped the Tau -

 

Extract -

The very learned Schedius,* speaking of the Druids, confirms all that I have said on this head. He writes, “ that they (the Druids) seek studiously for an oak tree, large and handsome, growing up with two principal arms, in form of a cross, beside the main stem upright. If the two horizontal arms are not sufficiently adapted to the figure, they fasten a cross-beam to it. This tree they consecrate in this manner. Upon the right branch they cut in the bark, in fair characters, the word HESUSI upon the middle or upright stem the word TARAMIS! upon the left branch BELENUS : over this, above the going off of the arms, they cut the name of God, THAU :T under all the same repeated THAU.

 

 

According to Rev Taylor the Druid deity 'Hesus' and the Hindu 'Krisna' became 'Hesus Kristos' which morphed into the English 'Jesus Christ' (I digress)

 

I've said before, the Christ was not Crucified on a crucifix in the shape of a 'T' he was crucified, if he was, on a stake or apparatus in the shape of an 'X'

 

The reason the Christians use the T shaped crucifix is to emulate the sacred 'Tau' of the Pagans which connects back to Egypt and Phoenicia.

 

The cross was originally a 'Nile-ometer' to measure the height of the Nile floods. They placed a stake in the ground on the banks and when the Nile had flooded they fixed a horizontal bar to show the height. Once the waters had receded there would be a load of crosses along the bank. it became a good luck charm and morphed from that into the symbol it is today.

 

The Christian cross is the Pagan Tau. The Christians venerate a Pagan symbol.

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Do Jews Believe in Hell?
What Is the Jewish Belief on Hell?
By Aron Moss

 

Dear Rabbi,

 

Do Jews believe in Hell? I am not planning any trips there or anything, but I have heard conflicting reports about its existence.

 

Answer:

 

We do believe in a type of Hell, but not the one found in cartoons and joke books. Hell is not a punishment in the conventional sense; it is, in fact, the expression of a great kindness.

 

The Jewish mystics described a spiritual place called “Gehinnom.” This is usually translated as “Hell,” but a better translation would be “the Supernal Washing Machine.” Because that’s exactly how it works. The way our soul is cleansed in Gehinnom is similar to the way our clothes are cleansed in a washing machine.

 

Put yourself in your socks’ shoes, so to speak. If you were to be thrown into boiling hot water and flung around for half an hour, you might start to feel that someone doesn’t like you. However, the fact is that it is only after going through a wash cycle that the socks can be worn again.

 

We don’t put our socks in the washing machine to punish them. We put them through what seems like a rough and painful procedure only to make them clean and wearable again. The intense heat of the water loosens the dirt, and the force of being swirled around shakes it off completely. Far from hurting your socks, you are doing them a favor by putting them through this process.

 

So too with the soul. Every act we do in our lifetime leaves an imprint on our soul. The good we do brightens and elevates our soul, and every wrongdoing leaves a stain that needs to be cleansed. If, at the end of our life, we leave this world without fixing the wrongs we have done, our soul is unable to reach its place of rest on high. We must go through a cycle of deep cleansing. Our soul is flung around at an intense spiritual heat to rid it of any residue it may have gathered, and to prepare it for entry into Heaven.

 

Of course, this whole process can be avoided. If we truly regret the wrong we have done and make amends with the people we have hurt, we can leave this world with “clean socks.”

 

That’s why our Sages said, “Repent one day before you die.” And what should you do if you don’t know which day that will be? Repent today.

 

Link - https://www.chabad.org/library/article_cdo/aid/1594422/jewish/Do-Jews-Believe-in-Hell.htm

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22 hours ago, pi3141 said:

Hell in Christianity

 

In Christian theology, Hell is the place or state into which, by God's definitive judgment, unrepentant sinners pass in the general judgment, or, as some Christians believe, immediately after death (particular judgment).[1][2] Its character is inferred from teaching in the biblical texts, some of which, interpreted literally, have given rise to the popular idea of Hell.[1] Theologians today generally see Hell as the logical consequence of rejecting union with God and with God's justice and mercy.[1]

 

Different Hebrew and Greek words are translated as "Hell" in most English-language Bibles. These words include:

Sheol, Gehenna, Tartarus (and Hades)

 

Link - Wiki


Valley of Hinnom (Gehenna)

 

The Valley of Hinnom (Hebrew: גֵּיא בֶן־הִנֹּם‎, romanized: Gēʾ ḇen-Hīnnōm, lit. 'Valley of Hinnom’s son'[1]) is a historic valley surrounding Ancient Jerusalem from the west and southwest.[2] The valley is also known by the name Gehinnom (גֵיא־הִנֹּם‎ Gēʾ-Hīnnōm, lit. 'Valley of Hinnom'), an alternative Biblical Hebrew form which survived into Aramaic and has received various fundamental theological connotations, and by the Greek and Syriac transliteration Gehenna (Γέεννα Géenna/ܓܼܼܗܲܢܵܐ Gihanna).[3]

 

The Valley of Hinnom is first mentioned in the Hebrew Bible as part of the border between the tribes of Judah and Benjamin (Joshua 15:8). During the late First Temple period, it was the site of the Tophet, where some of the kings of Judah had sacrificed their children by fire (Jeremiah 7:31).[4] Thereafter, it was cursed by the biblical prophet Jeremiah (Jeremiah 19:2–6).[5] In later Jewish rabbinic literature, Gehinnom became associated with divine punishment in Jewish Apocalypticism as the destination of the wicked.[6] It is different from the more neutral term Sheol, the abode of the dead. The King James Version of the Bible translates both with the Anglo-Saxon word hell.

 

Link - Wiki

 

5 minutes ago, pi3141 said:

Do Jews Believe in Hell?
What Is the Jewish Belief on Hell?
By Aron Moss

 

The Jewish mystics described a spiritual place called “Gehinnom.” 

 

 

Valley of Hinnom - Gehinnom - Gehenna

 

The Valley of Gehenna outside Jerusalem is also known as 'Gehinnom' which is the same 'Gehinnom' the Jews used to describe a spiritual place.

 

Gehinnom is a spiritual place for cleansing the soul and also a literal place used for a rubbish tip and perpetually burnt to sanitize and used as a metaphor for a bad end to life.

 

Same word, similar connotations, different meanings.

 

But it is the same word.

 

 

'Hell' is not one of the meanings of the word, except in the Christian Bible, where every time the word is replaced with 'Hell' and described as a place of Eternal Punishment and Torment, with a special ruler called Satan who is in league with another called Lucifer.

 

But thats NOT what it means.

 

 

 

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On 7/28/2023 at 9:10 PM, pi3141 said:

Different Hebrew and Greek words are translated as "Hell" in most English-language Bibles. These words include:

Sheol, Gehenna, Tartarus (and Hades)

 

Your right, here is part of map (which I believe to be real) of Tartarus & Beelze Bub, it's known as the underworld.

 

image_2023-07-29_231951185.png.e6b1b7a8053d798919a8127abc13fc05.png

 

https://library.princeton.edu/visual_materials/maps/websites/thematic-maps/theme-maps/homann-map-cockaigne-1720.jpg

When you link onto the map, just click on it to zoom in

 

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Do Jews Believe in Hell? @pi3141
 
Who knows, but they certainly feel there's a huge importance in the Book of Enoch and Enoch himself. 
 
Here is a Rabbi explaining the correlation between Enoch and the Jewish faith:

“A famous name in the Torah is the name of Enoch (Chanoch). There are two Enochs in the first portion of the Torah in Genesis. One is Enoch, the son of Cain. Cain was the one that killed Abel and was the infamous individual that brought murder to the world. Seeing the mistake that he did, he had a child and named him Enoch, which mean education. He named a city after his son Enoch because it was the opposite of the destruction, which is construction. To do Teshuvah (repent) for bringing death and destruction to the world, he wanted to build the world and to construct the world in a positive way.

Another Enoch was the 7th from Adam and was very holy. The Torah tells us that he was no longer there, for God had taken him. He is known as the angel Metatron (MemTet) and he is called the minister of the entire world. What is the job of Metatron? It say that he sews the shoes and sandals, and by doing so he makes unification up in the higher world similar to the jews (yehudim) who put on Tefillin. Through them there are knots that are made out of leather and this binds God to the soul, mind and heart of man.”

 

 

Enoch also ties in with Freemasonry equally, because they believe that he built two pillars of knowledge that survived the flood. Enoch is believed to also have developed astronomy, splitting time into months, weeks and days, lunar and solar. He is also believed to have developed Hebrew characters. 

 

Enoch, son of Cain, descendant of Seth, representing a duality to the freemasons. 

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9 hours ago, Morpheus said:
Do Jews Believe in Hell? @pi3141
 
Who knows, but they certainly feel there's a huge importance in the Book of Enoch and Enoch himself. 
 
Here is a Rabbi explaining the correlation between Enoch and the Jewish faith:

“A famous name in the Torah is the name of Enoch (Chanoch). There are two Enochs in the first portion of the Torah in Genesis. One is Enoch, the son of Cain. Cain was the one that killed Abel and was the infamous individual that brought murder to the world. Seeing the mistake that he did, he had a child and named him Enoch, which mean education. He named a city after his son Enoch because it was the opposite of the destruction, which is construction. To do Teshuvah (repent) for bringing death and destruction to the world, he wanted to build the world and to construct the world in a positive way.

Another Enoch was the 7th from Adam and was very holy. The Torah tells us that he was no longer there, for God had taken him. He is known as the angel Metatron (MemTet) and he is called the minister of the entire world. What is the job of Metatron? It say that he sews the shoes and sandals, and by doing so he makes unification up in the higher world similar to the jews (yehudim) who put on Tefillin. Through them there are knots that are made out of leather and this binds God to the soul, mind and heart of man.”

 

 

Enoch also ties in with Freemasonry equally, because they believe that he built two pillars of knowledge that survived the flood. Enoch is believed to also have developed astronomy, splitting time into months, weeks and days, lunar and solar. He is also believed to have developed Hebrew characters. 

 

Enoch, son of Cain, descendant of Seth, representing a duality to the freemasons. 

 

Great post Morpheus.

Can I just say that the good Enoch may have been translated far beyond the ice walls of Antarctica (the extra earth).

 

Here this guy talks about how & why Enoch may have been the very first abductee by Aliens, he talks mainly about other planets & space which I know now to be a load of crap.

So one has to look behind the scenes to join the dots, if you know what I mean.

 

 

 

 

 

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  • 2 weeks later...

Extracts from - The Diegesis - Being a discovery of the origin, evidences, and early history of Christianity by Reverend Taylor

 

P77 / 64

 

The Sixteenth Chapter of the Second Book of Ecclesiastical History, of Eusebius Pamphilus

46. Who ever wishes a clear understanding of these matters, may acquire it from the afore-mentioned work of this author ' But that Philo wrote these things with reference to those who were the first preachers of the discipline.

 

P85 / 72

13. The learned Basnage (Histoire des Juifs) has been at the pains of examining, with the most critical accuracy, the curious treatise of Philo, on which our Eusebius builds his argument, that the ancient sect of the Theraputae, were really Christians so many centuries before Christ, and were actually in possessions of those very writings which have become our gospels and epistles.

 

P199 / 186
The Sign Of The Cross Entirely Pagan


The holy father Minucius Felix, in his Octavius, written as early as the year 211, indignantly resents the supposition that the sign of the cross should be considered as exclusively a Christian symbol; and represents his advocate of the Christian argument, as retorting on an infidel opponent, 'As for the adoration of crosses, which you object against us, I must tell you, that we neither adore crosses nor desire them; you it is, ye Pagans, who worship wooden gods, who are the most likely people to adore wooden crosses, as being parts of the same substance with your dieties. For what else are your ensigns, flags, and standards, but crosses gilt and beautified. Your victorious trophies not only represent a simple cross, but a cross with a man opon it. The sign of a cross naturally appears in a ship, either when she is under sail, or rowed with expanded oars like the palm of our hands. Not a jugum erected but exhibits the sign of a cross; and when a pure worshipper adores the true God, with hands extended, he make the same figure. Thus you see the sign of the cross has either some foundation in nature, or in your own religion, and therefore ought not to be objected against Christians' (Reeves Apologies of the Fathers, Vol1, P.139)

 

Meagher, a Popish priest, who came over from the Roman Catholic communion, and attached himself, (for what reasons, or with what motives, must rest with himself alone) to the ministry of the Church of England, furnishes us with a most satisfactory prototype of what he had come at last to consider as a corrupt Christianity, in the idolatrous worship of the Nile. The ignorant gratitude of a superstitious people, while they adored the river on whose inundations the fertility of their provinces depended, could no fail of attaching notions of sanctity and holiness to the posts that were erected along its course, and which, by a transverse beam, indicated the height to which, at the spot where the beam was fixed, the waters might be expected to rise. This cross at once warned the traveller to secure his safety. Other rivers may add to the fertility of the country through which they pass, but the Nile is the absolute cause of that great fertility of the Lower Egypt, which would be all dessert, as bad as the most sandy parts of Africa, without this river. It supplies it both with soil and moisture, and was therefore greatly addressed, not merely as an ordinary river god, but by its express title of the Egyptian Jupiter. The crosses therefore, along the banks of the river, would naturally share in honour of the stream, and be the most expressive emblem of good fortune, peace and plenty. The two ideas could never be separated: the fertilizing flood was the 'waters of life', that conveyed every blessing, and even existence itself, to the provinces through which they flowed.

 

P204 / 191 

To deny that Christianity was and hath been the religion of the sword from first to last, and hath been propagated and sustained by means of violence and fraud, and by no other means, or to assert there ever was on earth, or could have been any other religion that ever made it professors of all sorts in all ages, one half so savage, so bloody, and so wicked, is, as it were, to assert anything, to trample all evidence of fact and history underfoot, to deny the existence of the sun, to deny that the jury who convicted the Rev, Robert Taylor of blaspheming their lord Jesus Christ 'BY FORCE AND ARMS', were a perjured jury, to deny that there is any gaol at Oakham, any innocent man in that jail, or truth in truth itself.


P259 / 245 Chap XXXVIII

Thou shall not be as the hypocrites are: But thou, when thou prayest, enter into thy closet, and when thou hast shut thy door, pray to thy Father which is in secret.


P294
According to St Ignatus AD 107


Is believed to have been bishop of Antioch in Syria, in the latter part of the first and beginning of the second century, and is believed to have succeeded Euodius occurs in the list of persons saluted by St Paul, and this seems to be the reason of Eusebius for making a bishop of him, though nothing is known of him but the name. "Beside the bishopric" says Ladner, "the martydom of this good man, Ignatius, is another of those few things concerning him which are not contradicted" Basnage, however, puts the year of Ignatus's death among the obscurities of chronology. Indeed, those learned men who have attempted to fix the time, have no other grounds than the testimony of Maalla, a barbarian of the sixth century, and the Acts of Martydom of Ignatius, the genuiness of which Lardner himself admits may be well disputed. He concludes, however, that "as the epistles we now have of Ignatius are allowed to be genuine by a great number of learned men whose opinion I think to be founded upon probable arguments, I now proceed to quote them as his"

The name of Ignatius is only twice mentioned by Origen, and that in so cursory a manner as to preclude any interference that Origen himself had any certain knowledge of his history. The whole story of his martydom is so utterly incongrous with time and circumstance, as to lead to no other rational conclusion than the probability that he is altogether the figment of that pious romance in which ecclesiastical historians have ever delighted - another name to be added to the long lists of saints and martyrs, which even the more intelligent of Roman Catholic writers have been constrained to admit never existed at all, but were the baseless fabric of a vision, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner-stone. The epistles ascribed to Ignatius are admitted by all parties to have been most extensively altered from the first or earlier drafts of them; but such as they are, even on a monastry reverie of their supposable genuiness, they afford no testimony to any one of the essential facts of the Christian story. Written whenever, or by whomsoever we suppose them to be, 'tis certain that the writer held out nothing so little as the notion that the events on which the Gospel is founded, had ever really happened. Let this mode of reasoning tell its own story! This it is.

 

"Igantius, which is called Theophorus, to the church which is at Ephesus in Aisa, most deservedly happy, being blessed through the greatness and fullness of God the Father, and predestined before the world began, that it should be always unto an enduring and unchangeable glory, being united and chosen through his true passion, according to the will of the Father, and Jesus Christ our God; all happiness by Jesus Christ and his undefiled grace.
"There is only one physician, both fleshly and spiritual, made and not made - God incarnate, true life in death, both of Mary and God - first passible, then impassable, even Jesus Christ.

 

"My soul be for years; and I myself the expiatory offering for your church of Ephesus, so famous throughout the world" &c.


19th Chapter - "Now the virginity of Mary, and he who was born of her, was kept in secret from the prince of this world, as was also the death of our Lord: three of the mysteries the most spoken of throughout the world, yet done in secret by God. How then was our saviour manifested to the world? A star shone in heaven beyond all the other stars, and its light was inexpressible, and its novelty struck terror into men's minds; all the rest of the stars, together with the sun and moon, were the chorus to this star; but this great star sent out its light exceedingly above them all, and men began to be troubled to think whence this new star came, so unlike all the others. Hence all the power of magic became dissolved, and every bond of wickedness was destroyed, men's ignorance was taken away, and the old kingdom abolished, God himself appeared in the form of man, for the renewal of eternal life. From these began what God had prepared, from thenceforth things were disturbed, forasmuch as he designed to abolish death"


P299
The orthodox Fathers (as far as doctrine is concerned with orthodoxy) seem only to be distinguished from the heretics, in that they occasionally use a strength of language in their descriptions of allegorical figments, which might seem to approximate to the style of history, and might make what they only intended as emblems, pass for actual circumstances. yet against such an acceptation of such occasional over-driving's of the allegory, we have to consider that we are in possession, not only of the argument arising from the natural improbability of such allegorical exaggerations when mistaken for facts, and the total absence of all corrobative and coincident testimony which could by no possibility be conceived to have been wanting if such facts ever happened; but we have the concurrent, and it may be called unanimous consent of the whole body of Christian dissenters (that is, in the church terms, heretics), who from the very first, and all along, never ceased to maintain and teach, that no such person as Jesus Christ ever existed and that all the evangelical statements of his miracles, actions, sufferings, births, death and resurrection, were to be understood in a high and mystical sense, and not, according to the letter as facts that had ever happened; and this, too, confirmed by admissions of those who are called orthodox themselves, in many positive passages; unabated by so much as a single sentence that be produced from any one writer within the first hundred years, which is such as he would have written, or would have suited his character to write, had he believed that the Gospel had been founded upon historical fact. And absolutely the only difference between Paganism and Christianity - Christians themselves being judges - was the difference between the allegorical fictions in which one or the other couched the same theorems; as is demonstrated, without need of further comment, by the juxta-position of their respective texts:

Julius Firmicius, in description of the Pagan Mysteries, quotes Pagan Priests.


But in those funerals and lamentations which are annually celebrated in honour of Osiris, their defenders wish to pretend a physical reason; they call the seeds of fruit, Osiris, the earth Isis, the natural heat Typhon; and because the fruits are ripened by natural heat, are collected for the life of man, and are separated from their matrimony to the earth, and are sown again when winter approaches, this would have to be the death of Osiris; but when the fruits, by the genial fostering of the earth, begin again to be generated by a new procreation, this is the finding of Osiris.

 

Beausobre, in description of the Christian Mysteries, quotes the Fathers.


In one word, the suffering Jesus is nothing else than what the Manicheans called the members of God; that is to say, the celestial substance, or the souls which have descended from heaven. The earth is the virgin; the heavenly substance which is in the earth, is the substance of the virgin, of which Jesus Christ was formed; the Holy Ghost is the natural heat, by whose virtue the earth conceived him; and he becomes an infant in being made to pass through plants, and from thence again into heaven.

 

With more than significancy that will strike one at first sight, has the learned Montifaucon observed, "when once a man begins to use his own judgement in matters of religion, it is no wonder that he should frequently be in error, since all things are uncertain, when once we depart from what the church has decreed" - that is, in other words, there is no real argument for the truth of the Christian religion, than "He that believeth not shall be dammned!" - Mark xvi 16

 

Christian Evidences 
P248
In the 'Lives of the Apostles, written by the eunuch Dorotheus, bishop of Tyrus, who died A.D. 366, we have the following brief account of the apostles respectively:

1 SIMON PETER
SIMON PETER is the chief of the apostles. He, as we are given to understand by his epistles, preached the Gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ in Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Bithynia, and in the end preached at Rome, where afterwards, he was crucified, the third kalends of July, under Nero the emperor, with his head downwards (for that was his desire), and there also buried.

2 JAMES.
James, the son of Zebedee, a fisherman preached the Gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ unto the twelve dispersed tribes. He was slain with the sword, by Herod the tetrarch, in Judea, where he was buried.

3 JOHN
John, the brother of James who was also an evangelist, whom the Lord loved, preached the Gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ in Asia. The emperor Trajan expelled him into the Isle of Patmos for the word of God, where he wrote his gospel, the which afterwards he published at Ephesus, by Gaius, his host and deacon. After the death of Trajan, he returned out of the Isle of Patmos, and remained at Ephesus, until he had lived a hundred and twenty years, at the end of which, he being yet in full health and strength (for the Lord would have it so), digged his own grave, and buried himself alive. There are some which write that he was not banished into the Isle of Patmos under Trajan, but in the time of Domitian, the son of Vespasian.

The translator of this JOHN, St. Jerome, quotes the authority of Tertullian to prove, that in the time of Nero, he was thrown at Rome into a tun of hot boiling oil, and thereby took no harm, but came forth after his trial purer than when he went in. St. Augustin relates, that "after St. John had made his grave at Ephesus, in the presence of divers persons, he went into it alive, and being no sooner in, and as appeared to the bystanders dead, they threw the earth in upon him, and covered him; but that kind of rest was rather to be termed a state of sleep than death; for that the earth of the grave bubbleth and boileth up to this day in a manner of a well, by reason of John therin and breathing - a sign that he only slumbereth there, but is not really dead! And till Christ shall come again, thus he remains, plainly showing that he is alive by the heaving up of the earth, which is caused by his breathing; for the dust is believed to ascend from the bottom of the tomb to the top, impelled by the state of him resting beneath it. Those who know the place," adds this conscientiously veracious Father, "must have seen the earth thus heave up and down; and that it is certainly truth, we are assured, as having heard it from no light minded witnesses"


Note: According to Tertullian (in The Prescription of Heretics) John was banished after being plunged into boiling oil in Rome and suffering nothing from it.[6] (From Wiki)

 

P314 / 301 Bishop of Sardis

Melito, supposed by some of the moderns to be the same as the Angel of the Church of Sardis, whom Christ is represented in the Revelation Of St. John, as ordering that apostle to address in the Epistle there dictated, was Bishop of Sardis in Lydia. In the very ancient Chronography ffixed to the oldest English editions of Eusebius, and which, upon the whole, I find easiest to be concilated to some sort of consistency with circumstances, he is called Meliton, and placed next to Justin, at A.D. 141, which is 64 years earlier than his place in Lardner. He dedicated an apology to Marcus Antonius on behalf of the Christian community, then under suffering, which Eusebius, in his chronicle, places at the year 170. As Marcus Antonius began his reign March 7, A.D. 161, this Apology at least cannot be dated earlier than at that time; and taking it, upon the most laborious investigation, to be one of the most genuine and authentic documents of high antiquity, that antiquity could ever supply: it may be well esteemed to be matter of real and substantial evidence. making the due allowance for the barbarity of the times, and hoping, as we may, that it was the cruelty of others, and not his own fanatacism, that made him an eunuch, one cannot enough admire the elegant simplicity and plain and rational statement. Eusebious has preserved a large fragment of this important document, from which Dr Lardner liberally renders for us the annexed paragraph, which he says is remarkable for politeness, as well as upon other accounts.

 

"Pious men" says he, "are now persecuted and harassed throughout all Asia by new decrees, WHICH WAS NEVER DONE BEFORE: and impudent sycophants, and such as covet the possessions of others, taking occasion from the edicts, rob without fear or shame, and cease not to plunder those who have offended nothing. If these are done by your order, let them be thought to be well done - for it is not reasonable to believe that a just emperor could ever decree what is unjust - and we shall cheerfully bear the reward of such a death. But if this resolution and new edict, which is not fit to be enacted against barbarians and enemies, proceeds not from you, much more would we entreat you not to neglect and give us up to this public rapine"

 

But perhaps it was not, in Dr Lardners view, conducive to the interest of piety and religion, to have continued his quotation into the very next paragraph of this document. For the importance of the truth with which it teems, this single passage outweighs the value of a thousand volumes of facetious evidences. Other testimonies only only serve to thicken the darkness, and to remove the truth we seek, still further and further from the reach of our research; this leads us directly to it, and with so much the happier effect, as it appears to have been no part of our guide's design to have done so. The sincerity and devotion of this Father's mind to the Christian cause, renders a testimony like his such as Christians themselves must respect. The adverse bearing of the testimony of a friendly party, like the favourable bearing of the admissions of an enemy, is universally considered to constitute the most satisfactory sort of historical certainty. I hold the preservation of this important passage, and bringing it forth into the prominence it challenges, worth a place in my text itself, and the more so, as I feel assure that there is no writer on the Christian evidences whatever, who has hitherto quoted the passage, or who, if he possessed diligence of research enough to have found it, would not have taken pains to bury it again. This is it:

 

"For the philosophy which we profess, truly flourished aforetime among the barbarous nations; but having blossomed again (or been transplanted) in the great reign of thy ancestor Augustus, it proved to be above all things ominous of good fortune to thy kingdom"

 

The passage continues: "For from thenceforth the Roman empire increased in glory, whose inheritor now you are, greatly beloved indeed by all your subjects: both you and your son will be continually prayed for. Retain, therefore, this religion, which grew as your empire grew; which began with Augustus, which was reverenced by your ancestors before all other religions. Only Nero and Domitian, through the persuasion of certain envious and malicious persons, who were disposed to bring our doctrine into hatred. But your godly ancestors corrected their blind ignorance, and rebuked ofentimes by their epistles the rash enterprises of those who were ill affected towards us. And your own father wrote unto the municipal authorities on our behalf, that they should make no innovations, nor practice anything prejudicial to the Christians. And of yourself, we are fully persuaded that we shall obtain the object of our humble petition, in that your opinion and sentence is correspondent unto that of your predecessors, yea, and even more gracious and far more religious"

 

This document - and it is wholly undisputable - is absolutely fatal to all the historical evidences of Christianity, inasmuch as it demonstrates the facts - 

1st. That it is not true that Christians, as such, had ever at any time been the objects of any extensive or notorious political persecution.
2nd. That it is not true that Christianity had any such origin as has been generally imagined for it.
3rd. That it is not true that it made its first appearance at the time generally assigned it; for Tporsdon nxuajey?? (Latin or Greek), it had flourished before that time.
4th That it is not true that it originated in Judea, which was a province of the Roman empire; for it was an importation from some foreign countries which lay beyond the boundaries of that empire.

 

Chapter XLL

P290
Papias, however, not withstanding his intimacy with the Evangelist St John, and the value of his testimony to the Gospels of Mathew and Mark, fell into the slight error of believing that no such an event as the crucifixion happened, but that Jesus Christ lived to be a very old man and died in peace in the bosom of his own family. Papias, with all the absurdities, had some respect for poetical justice, would have wound us up the scene decently, and give us gospel quite as true, though not so bloody.

 

P304 317/ Bishop of Lyons

P319


Pantaenus A.D. 193


PANTAENUS has claim on our acquaintance as master of Clemens Alexandria, and Origen, and head of the university or school in Alexandria in Egypt; though, on the best calculations. it would seem that he was living even in the third century. His high authority is indicated in the circumstance of Origen's pleading his example in justification of his study of heathen learning. Photius speaks of him as a hearer of some who had seen the apostles, and even some of the apostles themselves.

 

Eusebius bears this important testimony to his character and place in history: "At the time (about the period of the accession of Commodus) there presided in the school of the faithful at that place (Alexandria) a man highly celebrated on account of his learning, by the name Pantaenus. For there had been from ancient time erected among them a school of sacred learning, which remains to this day: and we have understood that it has been wont to be furnished with men eminent for their eloquence and the study of divine things; and it is said that this person excelled others of that time, having been bought up in the Stoic philosophy; that he was nominated or sent forth as a missionary to preach the gospel of Christ to the nations of the East, and to have travelled to India. For there were yet at that time many evangelists of the word, animated with a divine seal on imitating the apostles, by contributing the enlargement of the gospel, and building up the church; of whom this Pantaenus was one; who is said to have gone to the Indians, where it is commonly said he found the gospel of Mathew, written in the Hebrew tongue, which before his arrival had been delivered to some in that country who had the knowledge of Christ, to whom Bartholomew, one of the apostles, is said to have preached, and to have left with then that writing of Mathew, and that it was preserved among them to that time. This Pantaenus, therefore, for his many excellent performances, was at last made president of the school of Alexandria, where he set forth the treasures of the divine principles both by word of mouth and by his writings"

 

What St. Jerome says of this ancient Christian, is to this purpose: "Pantaenus, a philosopher of the Stoic sect, according to ancient custom of the city of Alexandria, was, at the request of ambassadors from India, sent into that country by Denetrius, bishop of Alexandria, where he found that Bartholomew, one of the twelve apostles, had preached the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, according to the gospel of Mathew, which he bought back with him to Alexandria, written in Hebrew letters"

 

Here we have another clue to the history of Christianity, winding up the same core of the labyrinth, and bringing us through a varied tract to the result which we have already ascertained, under the guidance of Melito, Eusebius, and Philo. Pantaenus, a missionary from the Therapeutean college of Alexandria, seems to have brought from India the idolatrous legends of the Hindoo god Chrishna, whom he imported into the Roman dominions, like a good Eclectic as he was, uniting the characters of the Grecian, or Phoenician Yesus, and the Indian Chrishna, "in one Lord Jesus Christ", whose history, at first contained in the Diegesis, or general narrative, was re-edited by three Egyptian secretaries, afterwards yclept the evangelists, Mathew, Mark, and Luke, and subsequently enlarged by an appendix of Egyptian rhapsodies, under the denomination of the Gospel according to St. John. The discovery of the unknown term in a quadratic equation, never more entirely responded to all requisites of the problem, than these facts do to every rational query that can arise out of the phenomena of the gospel legend.

 

P353
Not only among the apostles, but by those who were called Apostles, themselves, was the reality of the crucifixion denied. In the gospel of the Apostle Barnabas, of which there is extant an Italian translation written in 1470, or in 1480, which Toland* himself saw, and which was sold by Cramer to Prince Eugene, it is explicitly asserted, that "Jesus Christ was not crucified, but he was taken up into the third heaven by the ministry of four angels, Gabriel, Michael, Raphael, and Uriel; that he should not die till the very end of the world, and that it was Judas Iscariot who was crucified in his stead"

This account of the matter entirely squares with the account which we have of the bitter and unpleasable quarrel which took place between Paul and Barnabas, in the Acts of the Apostles, without any satisfactory accounts of the ground of that quarrel; as well as with the fact that Paul seems to have preferred imposing his gospel on the ignorant and credulous vulgar, and lays such a significant emphasis on the distinction that he preached "Jesus Christ and Him crucified," as if in marked opposition to his former patron, Barnabas, who preached Jesus Christ, but 'not' crucified.

 

The Basilidians, in the very beginning of Christianity, in like manner denied that Christ was crucified, and asserted that it was Simon of Cyrene, who was crucified in his place: which account of the matter stood its ground from the first to the seventh century, and was the form in which Christianity presented itself to the mind of Mahomet, who, after instructing us how the virgin Mary conceived by smelling a rose, tells us, that "the Jews devised a stratagem against him, but God devised a stratagem against them, and God id the best deviser of stratagems" "The malie of his enemies aspersed his reputation, and conspired against his life, but their intention only was guilty; a phantom or a criminal was substituted on the cross, and the innocent Jesus was translated into the seventh heaven."*

 

So much for the evidence of the Crucifixion of Christ.

 

*See the Koran, C iii. v.53, and C. iv. v.156, of Maracci's edition.

 

P356 / 369 External Evidences

P377

SUETONIUS, A. D. 110. 

C. Suetonius Tranquillus, A. d. 110, a Roman historian, in his life of Claudius, who reigned from a. d. 41 to 54 ; says, that " he drove the Jews, who, at the suggestion of Krestus, were constantly rioting, out of Rome.* Oorosius, a Christian writer of the fifth century, who quotes the passage, does not pretend to know whether it was the Christians or Jews who were thus expelled. Notwithstanding the absurdity of the supposition of this Chrestus being Christ, and of Christ heading riots in Rome, this passage has served its generation as Christian Evidence. Dr. Lardner, however, admits that " learned men are not satisfied that this relates to the Christians."

 

P378
1. The disciples were called Christian* first at Antioch Acts 26; that is, unquestionably, they assumed not the name themselves, but it was given them by the Gentiles, in whose sense of it, consequently, the real meaning of it is to be found. 

2. Justin Martyr, in his account of the name, which he gives in his apology to Antoninus Pius, thus puns away all possible reference to the name of Christ . as the founder of a sect " We are called Christians. So, then, we are the best of men (Chrestians), and it can never be just to hate what is (chrest) good and kind.* 

3. Theophilus of Antioch, after a long string of puns upon Christus, and Chrestus ; thinks that Christus, and not Chrestus, should be the word, because of the sublime significancy of Christus, which signifies "the sweet, and agreeable ; and most useful, and never to be laughed at article of pomatum.

" What use of a ship (he argues) unless it be besmeared? What tower or palace would be elegant or useful unless it were greased?" " What man comes into life or enters into a conflict, without being anointed ? What piece of work could be considered finished, if it were not oiled ? The air itself and every creature under heaven, is as it were 
anointed with light and spirit Undoubtedly we are called Christians ; for this reason, and none other, than because we are anointed with the oil of God"

 

P396
THE EMPEROR ADRIAN, A. D. 134. 

Tke letter of the 'Emperor Adrian to his brother-in-law Servianus, written in tke year 134, and preserved in Flavius  Vepicus, who flourished about a. d. 300. 

*"Egypt, which you commended to me, my dearest Serviamus, I have found to be wholly fickle and inconstant, and continually wafted about by every breath of fame. The worshippers of Serapis are Christians; and those are devoted to the God Serapis, who I find call themselves the bishops of Christ. There is here no ruler of a Jewish synagogue, no Samaritan, no Presbyter of the Christians, who is not either an astrologer, a soothsayer, or a minister to obscene pleasures. The very patriarch himself, should he come into Egypt, would be re-quired by some to worship Serapis, and by others to worship Christ. They have, however, but one God, and it is one and the self-same whom Christians, Jews, and Gentiles alike adore, i.e., money." 

 

Coincident with this unsophisticated testimony, is the never-re-futed charge of Zozimus, that the Emperor Constantine learned the Christian Religion from an Egyptian; and the fact admitted by So-crates, that the cross was found in the temple of Serapis, and claimed by his worshippers as the proper symbol of their religion. 
 

 

 

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8 hours ago, alexa said:

@pi3141 Just to let you know, I've started to read the Anchor Bible (revelation) &  I'm a bit confused. :classic_unsure:

 

 

Oh, sorry to hear that - what's wrong?

 

The book is heavily notated and the translations are presented as they are in the original scripture. So there's no Chapter and Verses notation. It's a bit difficult to find specific verses unless you really know the Bible.

 

That's what I like about the series, it's a faithful and accurate translation of the original documents presented exactly how they were originally written.

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