BeeThrive Posted February 14 Share Posted February 14 Lucifer = morning star = venus analogies rage on. It seems when you read material about these links that we have a lot of chinese whisper effects over the centuries. Sooo many texts ignored, while tiny passages from others are highlighted and misinterpreted - mainly this was/is done by religions, and then gets regurgitated over and over. It’s soooo disorientating that we understandably now have todays critical thinkers questioning aspects of our spiritual selves as even fake and a trapping. Religions of today have made a fine job of despiritualising the world thats for sure! They are experts at double-think and gaslighting their ‘flock’ with conflicting consciousness that their followers don't even question how can this all-loving god also be a judgemental, vengeful god. Who is this bi-polar god they insist everyone gets on their chapped knees for?! Even the most BASE questioning of why would you have to even pray to a god who is supposedly everywhere, and KNOWS you, seems too clear-thinking inquiry for a follower to ever perceive. As religions seem to be in the industry of mass delusion, much like our governments - we can throw the lot of them under the rightful ‘concept’ which is commonly known as SATAN. Satan = Saturn. SATURN = Rulership - dominion - laws - restrictions - judgements - discipline - cold - rigid brittle - rules ‘structures’ (buildings) also body structures (skeleton) - rules dogmatic routine….it rules TIME - the realm of TIME -rules karma - the 6th planet from the sun - this ‘hexed’ realm - 666 carbon/nitrogen/hydrogen = the building blocks of this material realm. The pole of the planet Saturn has a hexagon shaped pole for those who didnt know that gem of a clue! Saturn is lord of the rings etc etc. Most of all saturn represents a persons Earthly Ego, (not true essence spiritual Self). Our earthly ego’s have ideas of what we’d like to do/make/create/construct…..ego is architect of ‘ideas’ - SATAN is the ‘architect’ of this world. It’s a dense ego being and it’s dense material ‘ideas’. The so-called ‘fall’ of satan is you, me and everyone on this damn rock in space! Everyones un-fulfilled ego screams “i didnt choose to be on this damn earth = i was forced = this is a matrix = this is a religious heaven/hell trap!” (yet consider, if there was no money, no laws, everything is absolutely free, total freedom, no borders of countries…..would you be happier? ) SURE! And there we have the satan within us all - the architect of desires and ideas…..on a level so base and childish its laughable to another aspect of ourselves. The trap is the ones we as ego’s design FOR OURSELVES. Nothing traps us here except our IDEAS of what we THINK traps us! “You become what you think” because “The ALL is mind” MANIFEST REALITY = a giant MIND full of ideas - WE are an idea of ourselves playing the game of life - a mini-mind within the giant ALL MIND. - Espirit (mind in french) = the spirit of ideas! Buddhist concepts at least recognise all are enlightened and are just ‘dreaming’ we’re something else. We’re on such a dense level of reality in this physical manifest realm - hence why many reference satan rules the hells - hells are denser realms. Just like dualistic earth raging in wars for millenia. It doesnt have to be so dualistic. The BEAUTY is = Change your MIND of ideas…change the spirit of your ideas, and the ‘world’ you perceive changes. Your ATTITUDE changes. YOU bring LIGHT to YOUR reality in your mind/mond/world/spirit. We rarely recognise the spiritual plane because our minds are too dualistic with dense dualistic concepts. “I want to be successful, rich, popular, entrepreneur of this that or the other” - even concepts of helping this dense world means you have to put your mind into the dense world. How can the same level of thinking solve a problem it created? It takes novel thought to solve problems another mind created. Novel thought = inspiration = comes from creation pure spirit life force AKA chi/prana etc…..which can only be accessed by NOT indulging in dense problematic mind-thoughts. Anyway - whenever any fractal mind within the ALL mind perceives ‘novel thought’ - that is instantly transmitted to the ‘whole of all minds’ via the medium of pure consciousness aka holy spirit, best mate of friggin’ GOD! The ‘thing’ that POWERS this massive engine of CREATION, hence called ‘original creator’. Its a ‘force’ if there could be a descriptive term, rather than some ‘man-being sitting in the clouds’ fairty tale childish notion. The whole universe of all truth is within all, and our ‘lower’ ‘satan ego’s’ block-it with earthly desire mind ideas. To KNOW this people take psychoactive drugs, mainly as they force a ‘rattling of the cage of our earth-self-made ego’ and cause us to pop that bubble of self-made-ego identity and explore a wider reality than the narrow vision of our ego mind. Or we can take the organic route of deconstructing and relinquishing all desires and self-identity notions we hold about ourselves. Beyond this ‘ego-self’ - there’s another Self! A far more ‘universal’ Self! And beyond that….. it’s a fractal….up and down the frequencies of mind. Beyond mind?…..TRUE UNION - Completion - the thing searched for everywhere and never found OUTSIDE ourselves, but the ego will spend literally billions of years searching, for even that length of time on the seeking path is worth every step to reach Divinity. In REALITY, we’re already there, unified and complete - this mind experience is like phantom energy playing-out strings of lifetimes…a memory of a journey, like a dream…deja-vu on crack! Modern Religions sabotage our very natural organic journey to knowing true Truth. They subpoena the will of followers, contort it and make it more false than before with stitched-together teachings hand-plucked to help rid guilty men of shameful conscience (constantine). The ‘Laws of God’ are NOT the laws of religions. Religious ‘laws’ are ‘ego laws’ - from the dense ego minds of men who sought to control the masses. Manipulators. Its unfortunate that any REAL divine truths that happen to have made it into modern religious texts, are so misinterpreted that the breath-taking nature of those truths are truly missed. Esoterica versions of these religions are more accurate - yet islam is just a bad mimic of christianity with a heavy hand of mysogyny to suit the culture it was intended for, it cant be taken seriously at all. As alexa quited - know them by their fruits…..ACTIONS create results - what have religions of recent era done for this earth except divide and conquer and inject fear (satan) into its followers? Due to this many billions of people over time have rejected God, as these ‘models of god’ cause such strife. Such examples of ‘God’ of course would have people rejecting any notion of God. The plan to annihilate the divine spark within is the industry of modern religion and governments. Those of a spiritual bent are attracted to religions but can often get lost. If spiritual fervour is strong enough the ability to dip our toes in to understand its origin/purpose and trajectory is enough for us to realise , sadly, how corrupt it has become. But we must not be hasty to throw the proverbial baby out with the bath water. There’s some ‘concepts’ touted by these institutions based on timeless Truths - it’s a shame they no longer have a semblance of understanding these Truths themselves, when that was the original intentions behind formation of ‘religions’ - to keep TRUTH alive…throughout all ages. Luckily, ultimately, nobody needs any texts to know TRUTH of Reality or God or Life…as it truly is all within us. What is Known Within, is in it’s purest form, not bastardised by any institution. 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BeeThrive Posted February 14 Share Posted February 14 EDIT to above comment (how long is the edit window on this forum?): I said : 1 hour ago, BeeThrive said: 666 carbon/nitrogen/hydrogen = the building blocks of this material realm. Not as accurate as intended. Should be 666 is carbon essential for material Life (6 electrons, 6 neutrons, 6 protons) - it’s also the realm of decay / ‘death’ - saturn astrologically also is black colour symbolism and represents death. All things die and decay to carbon - which also is the major essential element in our body to LIVE in a material dense realm. Carbon = live to die, and die to fuel more life, that’s ‘bound/bondage - saturn again is bondage to a thing - bound to the ‘carbon cycle’ of life and death. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexa Posted February 14 Share Posted February 14 On 1/1/2023 at 12:40 PM, shabbirss said: or is it symbolic of the vagina-womb-penis? Hi shabbirss, I've only just now seen your post. I have very often wondered if the Universe is one Giant pregnant Womb, the micro & the macro & we are the cells growing in this giant baby. When a soul first enters the fetus at conception God places a light at the head of the fetus until it is ready to be born & just at the time birth the light goes out. Could this light be our sun ? The soul actually leaves the fetus every night & it can see the earth from one end to the other, could this explain the moon and her phases ? Now how many times do we hear about the womb in the Bible & in revelation at the end of days, it will be like a women who's in pains of labor & the sun shall be darkened. Is this the light going out and for the baby ready to be born. If this is correct then the whole earth would be the growing baby & would be in the shape of the growing baby. This would explain the expanding universe. When the end of days come it will be like women giving birth & what do we do with the after birth ? This would explain the firmament & the waters above, in the beginning (Alpha) & revelation the end (Omega) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexa Posted February 14 Share Posted February 14 6 hours ago, JCP said: It appears that you are a conventional Christian and would have a hard time entertaining any other perspective than what the church presents. Your wrong here, I do not believe in what the church presents, I believe in the word of God, but, I have often wondered if Lucifer could be the brother of Jesus ??? Dead opposites Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Campion Posted February 14 Share Posted February 14 (edited) 11 hours ago, BeeThrive said: To KNOW this people take psychoactive drugs, mainly as they force a ‘rattling of the cage of our earth-self-made ego’ and cause us to pop that bubble of self-made-ego identity and explore a wider reality than the narrow vision of our ego mind. Or we can take the organic route of deconstructing and relinquishing all desires and self-identity notions we hold about ourselves. Beyond this ‘ego-self’ - there’s another Self! A far more ‘universal’ Self! And beyond that….. it’s a fractal….up and down the frequencies of mind. Beyond mind?…..TRUE UNION - Completion - the thing searched for everywhere and never found OUTSIDE ourselves, but the ego will spend literally billions of years searching, for even that length of time on the seeking path is worth every step to reach Divinity. In REALITY, we’re already there, unified and complete - this mind experience is like phantom energy playing-out strings of lifetimes…a memory of a journey, like a dream…deja-vu on crack! Modern Religions sabotage our very natural organic journey to knowing true Truth. They subpoena the will of followers, contort it and make it more false than before with stitched-together teachings hand-plucked to help rid guilty men of shameful conscience (constantine). I would just say that if we cast our net beyond the traditional religions, themselves mostly derivatives of the Abrahamic roots, educate ourselves and look at the modern spiritual/religious scene, we can find good teachings that resonate with what you're saying. There's a lot of fluff and cults too, but that's only to be expected with the amount of freedom we currently have compared with most of our ancestors. Edit. " how long is the edit window on this forum?" We get one hour before it's locked, after that we need to ask the mods for help. Edited February 14 by Campion 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shabbirss Posted February 14 Share Posted February 14 10 hours ago, alexa said: Hi shabbirss, I've only just now seen your post. I have very often wondered if the Universe is one Giant pregnant Womb, the micro & the macro & we are the cells growing in this giant baby. When a soul first enters the fetus at conception God places a light at the head of the fetus until it is ready to be born & just at the time birth the light goes out. Could this light be our sun ? The soul actually leaves the fetus every night & it can see the earth from one end to the other, could this explain the moon and her phases ? Now how many times do we hear about the womb in the Bible & in revelation at the end of days, it will be like a women who's in pains of labor & the sun shall be darkened. Is this the light going out and for the baby ready to be born. If this is correct then the whole earth would be the growing baby & would be in the shape of the growing baby. This would explain the expanding universe. When the end of days come it will be like women giving birth & what do we do with the after birth ? This would explain the firmament & the waters above, in the beginning (Alpha) & revelation the end (Omega) interesting. the patterns in the micro and macro its like a puzzle, could be something to what your saying @alexa 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Certified Green of Heart Posted February 14 Share Posted February 14 5 hours ago, Campion said: Edit. " how long is the edit window on this forum?" We get one hour before it's locked, after that we need to ask the mods for help. They (Mods) don't usually help edit posts. I believe to reckon on 50mins editing time is a safer assumption. I haven't ever physically timed it as such though. Rather just approximated it in mostly a subconscious hunch type of way. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pi3141 Posted February 16 Author Share Posted February 16 On 2/12/2023 at 11:08 PM, JCP said: Jesus Christ IS Lucifer... Thanks for introducing this JCP. We had a couple of threads on the old DIF about is Jesus Lucifer and is Jesus Satan. According to the Astrotheological interpretation Jesus is the Sun riding high in Heavenly glory in Summer and transforms to Satan in the bottomless pit in Winter. In that interpretation Jesus and Satan are one and the same. Then there's the theory that Lucifer came as Jesus, performed miracles to convince people of his divinity, then established a church that worships Jesus as God rather than worshipping God. Hence people are diverted away from God and in to worshipping Lucifer. Seems like the sort of trick the devil of the Bible would do. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexa Posted February 16 Share Posted February 16 4 hours ago, pi3141 said: Thanks for introducing this JCP. We had a couple of threads on the old DIF about is Jesus Lucifer and is Jesus Satan. According to the Astrotheological interpretation Jesus is the Sun riding high in Heavenly glory in Summer and transforms to Satan in the bottomless pit in Winter. In that interpretation Jesus and Satan are one and the same. Then there's the theory that Lucifer came as Jesus, performed miracles to convince people of his divinity, then established a church that worships Jesus as God rather than worshipping God. Hence people are diverted away from God and in to worshipping Lucifer. Seems like the sort of trick the devil of the Bible would do. If Jesus is Lucifer then why are they trying to ban the use of his name & Christianity in the likes of NASA etc ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pi3141 Posted February 16 Author Share Posted February 16 6 hours ago, alexa said: If Jesus is Lucifer then why are they trying to ban the use of his name & Christianity in the likes of NASA etc ? To perpetuate the Deception? It's said using the name Jesus Christ when attacked by bad spirits gives protection, I wonder if its because by invoking that name, they know they already have you, you've accepted the lie, and they don't need to pursue you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexa Posted February 16 Share Posted February 16 12 minutes ago, pi3141 said: To perpetuate the Deception? It's said using the name Jesus Christ when attacked by bad spirits gives protection, I wonder if its because by invoking that name, they know they already have you, you've accepted the lie, and they don't need to pursue you. Jesus said this would happen in the last days that loads would be strongly deluded & deceived, this is another one of Satan's/ Lucifer's biggest tricks to play on the population. Have you ever read 'Morals & Dogma' by Albert Pike? Anyway it won't be long before the Antichrist shows his scrawny little face & Jesus returns to defeat him, watch the sky for the signs, only the one true God can blot out the moon, darken the sun & bring the firmament crashing down with gigantic hail stones. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaleP Posted February 16 Share Posted February 16 11 minutes ago, alexa said: Jesus said this would happen in the last days that loads would be strongly deluded & deceived, this is another one of Satan's/ Lucifer's biggest tricks to play on the population. Have you ever read 'Morals & Dogma' by Albert Pike? Anyway it won't be long before the Antichrist shows his scrawny little face & Jesus returns to defeat him, watch the sky for the signs, only the one true God can blot out the moon, darken the sun & bring the firmament crashing down with gigantic hail stones. not water then? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexa Posted February 16 Share Posted February 16 22 minutes ago, DaleP said: not water then? No- Sorry, the water is gonna dry all up. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaleP Posted February 16 Share Posted February 16 @alexa is your Inbox full? It says you cannot receive messages.... Empty the damn thing lady. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexa Posted February 16 Share Posted February 16 7 minutes ago, DaleP said: @alexa is your Inbox full? It says you cannot receive messages.... Empty the damn thing lady. Oops - Will do, I didn't realize, thanks for letting me know. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexa Posted February 17 Share Posted February 17 21 minutes ago, DaleP said: @alexa is your Inbox full? It says you cannot receive messages.... Empty the damn thing lady. How do I delete messages ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaleP Posted February 17 Share Posted February 17 1 minute ago, alexa said: How do I delete messages ? duh! lol There are checkboxes. You tick them and delete button will appear at the bottom. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pi3141 Posted February 17 Author Share Posted February 17 12 hours ago, alexa said: Have you ever read 'Morals & Dogma' by Albert Pike? Started to read it, but got bored of it quickly so stopped. I've read enough about Masonry to know its another fake Pagan based system. Morals and Dogma doesn't give out much info. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexa Posted February 17 Share Posted February 17 8 minutes ago, pi3141 said: Started to read it, but got bored of it quickly so stopped. I've read enough about Masonry to know its another fake Pagan based system. Morals and Dogma doesn't give out much info. If not morals & dogma try watching or reading stuff about Albert Pike the Luciferian. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bombadil Posted February 17 Share Posted February 17 1 hour ago, alexa said: If not morals & dogma try watching or reading stuff about Albert Pike the Luciferian. Recently listening again, to Mystery Babylon by Bill Cooper. Early episodes go into a lot of detail about Albert Pike. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexa Posted February 17 Share Posted February 17 4 hours ago, Bombadil said: Recently listening again, to Mystery Babylon by Bill Cooper. Early episodes go into a lot of detail about Albert Pike. Thanks Bombadil, I'll have to check this out 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bombadil Posted February 17 Share Posted February 17 13 minutes ago, alexa said: Thanks Bombadil, I'll have to check this out Home | The Fact Hunter 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pi3141 Posted February 17 Author Share Posted February 17 11 hours ago, alexa said: If not morals & dogma try watching or reading stuff about Albert Pike the Luciferian. Your obviously referring to Pike's 'the God of this world/freemasonry is Lucifer' I know, I was going to read the book because of it but it's full of so much waffle I couldn't be arsed. I just googled it instead. I know all about it, Manly P Hall Says it as do others. There are many paths, some mistake Lucifer for a teacher and tune into those powers to propel themselves. It's another false path for most. For some it can be a beginning. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pi3141 Posted May 12 Author Share Posted May 12 (edited) I've come full circle, back to Rev taylor. Below are extracts from his book Diegesis which concerns itself with the origins of Christianity. Rev Taylor as a serving Reverend had access to Christian texts we don't have much access to. In it he takes direction from the early church fathers and the early Christian historians to show that Christianity was born out of the Theraputae from Egypt and that the Essenes were also Theraputae and in possession of the gospels before the Christians. This book was written while he was in Oakham jail for blasphemy. All his books pre date the copyright law of 1924 Diegesis Being a discovery of the origin, evidences, and early history of Christianity never yet before of elsewhere so fully and faithfully set forth. P77 / 64 The Sixteenth Chapter of the Second Book of Ecclesiastical History, of Eusebius Pamphilus 46. Who ever wishes a clear understanding of these matters, may acquire it from the afore-mentioned work of this author ' But that Philo wrote these things with reference to those who were the first preachers of the discipline. P85 / 72 13. The learned Basnage (Histoire des Juifs) has been at the pains of examining, with the most critical accuracy, the curious treatise of Phlo, on which our Eusebius builds his argument, that the ancient sect of the Theraputae, were really Christians so many centuries before Christ, and were actually in possessions of those very writings which have become our gospels and apistles. P199 / 186 The Sign Of The Cross Entirely Pagan The holy father Minucius Felix, in his Octavius, written as early as the year 211, indignantly resents the supposition that the sign of the cross should be considered as exclusively a Christian symbol; and represents his advocate of the Christian argument, as retorting on an infidel opponent, 'As for the adoration of crosses, which you object against us, I must tell you, that we neither adore crosses nor desire them; you it is, ye Pagans, who worship wooden gods, who are the most likely people to adore wooden crosses, as being parts of the same substance with your dieties. For what else are your ensigns, flags, and standards, but crosses gilt and beautified. Your victorious trophies not only represent a simple cross, but a cross with a man opon it. The sign of a cross naturally appears in a ship, either when she is under sail, or rowed with expanded oars like the palm of our hands. Not a jugum erected but exhibits the sign of a cross; and when a pure worshipper adores the true God, with hands extended, he make the same figure. Thus you see the sign of the cross has either some foundation in nature, or in your own religion, and therefore ought not to be objected against Christians' (Reeves Apologies of the Fathers, Vol1, P.139) Meagher, a Popish priest, who came over from the Roman Catholic communion, and attached himself, (for what reasons, or with what motives, must rest with himself alone) to the ministry of the Church of England, furnishes us with a most satisfactory prototype of what he had come at last to consider as a corrupt Christianity, in the idolatrous worship of the Nile. The ignorant gratitude of a superstitious people, while they adored the river on whose inundations the fertility of their provinces depended, could no fail of attaching notions of sanctity and holiness to the posts that were erected along its course, and which, by a transverse beam, indicated the height to which, at the spot where the beam was fixed, the waters might be expected to rise. This cross at once warned the traveller to secure his safety. Other rivers may add to the fertility of the country through which they pass, but the Nile is the absolute cause of that great fertility of the Lower Egypt, which would be all dessert, as bad as the most sandy parts of Africa, without this river. It supplies it both with soil and moisture, and was therefore greatly addressed, not merely as an ordinary river god, but by its express title of the Egyptian Jupiter. The crosses therefore, along the banks of the river, would naturally share in honour of the stream, and be the most expressive emblem of good fortune, peace and plenty. The two ideas could never be separated: the fertilizing flood was the 'waters of life', that conveyed every blessing, and even existence itself, to the provinces through which they flowed. P204 / 191 To deny that Christianity was and hath been the religion of the sword from first to last, and hath been propagated and sustained by means of violence and fraud, and by no other means, or to assert there ever was on earth, or could have been any other religion that ever made it professors of all sorts in all ages, one half so savage, so bloody, and so wicked, is, as it were, to assert anything, to trample all evidence of fact and history underfoot, to deny the existence of the sun, to deny that the jury who convicted the Rev, Robert Taylor of blaspheming their lord Jesus Christ 'BY FORCE AND ARMS', were a perjured jury, to deny that there is any gaol at Oakham, any innocent man in that jail, or truth in truth itself. P259 / 245 Chap XXXVIII Thou shall not be as the hypocrites are: But thou, when thou prayest, enter into thy closet, and when thou hast shut thy door, pray to thy Father which is in secret. P294 According to St Ignatus AD 107 Is believed to have been bishop of Antioch in Syria, in the latter part of the first and beginning of the second century, and is believed to have succeeded Euodius occurs in the list of persons saluted by St Paul, and this seems to be the reason of Eusebius for making a bishop of him, though nothing is known of him but the name. "Beside the bishopric" says Lerdner, "the martydom of this good man, Ignatius, is another of those few things concerning him which are not contradicted" Basnage, however, puts the year of Ignatus's death among the obscuritties of chronology. Indeed, those learned men who have attempted to fix the time, have no other grounds than the testimony of Maalla, a barbarian of the sixth century, and the Acts of Martydom of Ignatius, the genuiness of which Lardner himself admits may be well disputed. He concludes, however, that "as the epistles we now have of Ignatius are allowed to be genuine by a great number of learned men whose opinion I think to be founded upon probable arguments, I now proceed to quote them as his" The name of Ignatius is only twice mentioned by Origen, and that in so cursory a manner as to preclude any interference that Origen himself had any certain knowledge of his history. The whole story of his martydom is so utterly incongrous with time and circumstance, as to lead to no other rational conclusion than the probability that he is altogether the figmant of that pious romance in which ecclesiastical historians have ever delighted - another name to be added to the long lists of saints and martyrs, which even the more intelligent of Roman Catholic writers have been constrained to admit never existed at all, but were the baseless fabric of a vision, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner-stone. The epistles ascribed to Ignatius are admitted by all parties to have been most extensively altered from the first or earlier drafts of them; but such as they are, even on a monastry reverie of their supposeable genuiness, they afford no testimony to any one of the essential facts of the Christian story. Written whenever, or by whomsoever we suppose them to be, 'tis certain that the writer held out nothing so little as the notion that the events on which the Gospel is founded, had ever really happened. Let this mode of reasoning tell its own story! This it is. "Igantius, which is called Theophorus, to the church which is at Ephesus in Aisa, most deservedly happy, being blessed through the greatness and fullness of God the Father, and predestined before the world began, that it should be always unto an enduring and unchangeable glory, being united and chosen through his true passion, according to the will of the Father, and Jesus Christ our God; all happiness by Jesus Christ and his undefiled grace. "There is only one physician, both fleshly and spiritual, made and not made - God incarnate, true life in death, both of Mary and God - first passible, then impassible, even Jesus Christ. "My soul be for years; and I myself the expiatory offering for your church of Ephesus, so famous throughout the world" &c. 19th Chapter - "Now the virginity of Mary, and he who was born of her, was kept in secret from the prince of this world, as was also the death of our Lord: three of the mysteries the most spoken of throughout the world, yet done in secret by God. How then was our saviour manifested to the world? A star shone in heaven beyaond all the other stars, and its light was inexpressible, and its novelty struck terror into mens minds; all the rest of the stars, together with the sun and moon, were the chorus to this star; but this great star sent out its light exceedingly above them all, and men began to be troubled to think whence this new star came, so unlike all the others. Hence all the power of magic became dissolved, and every bond of wickedness was destroyed, mens ignorance was taken away, and the old kingdom abolished, God himself appeared in the form of man, for the renewal of eternal life. From these began what God had prepared, from thenceforth things were disturbed, forasmuch as he designed to abolish death" P299 The orthodox Fathers (as far as doctrine is concerned with orthodoxy) seem only to be distinguished from the heretics, in that they occasionally use a strength of language in their descriptions of allegorical figments, which might seem to approximate to the style of history, and might make what they only intended as emblems, pass for actual circumstances. yet against such an acceptation of such occasional over-drivings of the allegory, we have to consider that we are in possession, not only of the argument arising from the natural improbability of such allegorical exaggerations when mistaken for facts, and the total absence of all corrobative and coincident testimony which could by no possibility be conceived to have been wanting if such facts ever happened; but we have the concurrent, and it may be called unaminous consent of the whole body of Christian dissenters (that is, in the church terms, heretics), who from the very first, and all along, never ceased to maintain and teach, that no such person as Jesus Christ ever existed and that all the evangelical statements of his miracles, actions, sufferings, births, death and resurrection, were to be understood in a high and mystical sense, and not, according to the letter as facts that had ever happened; and this, too, confirmed by admissions of those who are called orthodox themselves, in many positive passages; unabated by so much as a single sentence that be produced from any one writer within the first hundred years, which is such as he would have written, or would have suited his character to write, had he believed that the Gospel had been founded upon historical fact. And absolutely the only difference between Paganism and Christianity - Christians themselves being judges - was the difference between the allegorical fictions in which one or the other couched the same theorems; as is demonstrated, without need of further comment, by the juxta-position of their respective texts: Julius Firmicius, in description of the Pagan Mysteries, quotes Pagan Priests. But in those funerals and lamentations which are annually celebrated in honour of Osiris, their defenders wish to pretend a physical reason; they call the seeds of fruit, Osiris, the earth Isis, the natural heat Typhon; and because the fruits are ripened by natural heat, are collected for the life of man, and are separated from their matrimony to the earth, and are sown again when winter approaches, this would have to be the death of Osiris; but when the fruits, by the genial fostering of the earth, begin again to be generated by a new procreation, this is the finding of Osiris. Beausobre, in description of the Christian Mysteries, quotes the Fathers. In one word, the suffering Jesus is nothing else than what the Manicheans called the members of God; that is to say, the celestial substance, or the souls which have descended from heaven. The earth is the virgin; the heavenly substance which is in the earth, is the substance of the virgin, of which Jesus Christ was formed; the Holy Ghost is the natural heat, by whose virtue the earth conceived him; and he becomes an infant in being made to pass through plants, and from thence again into heaven. With more than significancy that will strike one at first sight, has the learned Montifaucon observed, "when once a man begins to use his own judgement in matters of religion, it is no wonder that he should frequently be in error, since all things are uncertain, when once we depart from what the church has decreed" - that is, in other words, there is no real argument for the truth of the Christian religion, than "He that believeth not shall be dammned!" - Mark xvi 16 P290 Papias, however, not withstanding his intimacy with the Evangelist St John, and the value of his testimony to the Gospels of Mathew and Mark, fell into the slight error of believing that no such an event as the crucifixion happened, but that Jesus Christ lived to be a very old man and died in peace in the bosom of his own family. Papias, with all the absurdities, had some respect for poetical justice, would have wound us up the scene decently, and give us gospel quite as true, though not so bloody. Christian Evidences P248 In the 'Lives of the Apostles, written by the eunuch Dorotheus, bishop of Tyrus, who died A.D. 366, we have the following brief account of the apostles respectively: 1 SIMON PETER SIMON PETER is the chief of the apostles. He, as we are given to understand by his epistles, preached the Gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ in Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Bithynia, and in the end preached at Rome, where afterwards, he was crucified, the third kalends of July, under Nero the emperor, with his head downwards (for that was his desire), and there also buried. 2 JAMES. James, the son of Zebedee, a fisherman preached the Gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ unto the twelve dispersed tribes. He was slain with the sword, by Herod the tetrarch, in Judea, where he was buried. 3 JOHN John, the brother of James who was also an evangelist, whom the Lord loved, preached the Gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ in Asia. The emperor Trajan expelled him into the Isle of Patmos for the word of God, where he wrote his gospel, the which afterwards he published at Ephesus, by Gaius, his host and deacon. After the death of Trajan, he returned out of the Isle of Patmos, and remained at Ephesus, until he had lived a hundred and twenty years, at the end of which, he being yet in full health and strength (for the Lord would have it so), digged his own grave, and buried himself alive. There are some which write that he was not banished into the Isle of Patmos under Trajan, but in the time of Domitian, the son of Vespasian. The translator of this JOHN, St. Jerome, quotes the authority of Tertullian to prove, that in the time of Nero, he was thrown at Rome into a tun of hot boiling oil, and thereby took no harm, but came forth after his trial purer than when he went in. St. Augustin relates, that "after St. John had made his grave at Ephesus, in the presence of divers persons, he went into it alive, and being no sooner in, and as appeared to the bystanders dead, they threw the earth in upon him, and covered him; but that kind of rest was rather to be termed a state of sleep than death; for that the earth of the grave bubbleth and boileth up to this day in a manner of a well, by reason of John therin and breathing - a sign that he only slumbereth there, but is not really dead! And till Christ shall come again, thus he remains, plainly showing that he is alive by the heaving up of the earth, which is caused by his breathing; for the dust is believed to ascend from the bottom of the tomb to the top, impelled by the state of him resting beneath it. Those who know the place," adds this conscientously veracious Father, "must have seen the earth thus heave up and down; and that it is certainly truth, we are assured, as having heard it from no light minded witnesses" Note: According to Tertullian (in The Prescription of Heretics) John was banished after being plunged into boiling oil in Rome and suffering nothing from it.[6] (From Wiki) P314 / 301 Bishop of Sardis Melito, supposed by some of the moderns to be the same as the Angel of the Church of Sardis, whom Christ is represented in the Revelation Of St. John, as ordering that apostle to address in the Epistle there dictated, was Bishop of Sardis in Lydia. In the very ancient Chronography fixed to the oldest English editions of Eusebius, and which, upon the whole, I find easiest to be conciliated to some sort of consistency with circumstances, he is called Meliton, and placed next to Justin, at A.D. 141, which is 64 years earlier than his place in Lardner. He dedicated an apology to Marcus Antonius on behalf of the Christian community, then under suffering, which Eusebius, in his chronicle, places at the year 170. As Marcus Antonius began his reign March 7, A.D. 161, this Apology at least cannot be dated earlier than at that time; and taking it, upon the most laborious investigation, to be one of the most genuine and authentic documents of high antiquity, that antiquity could ever supply: it may be well esteemed to be matter of real and substantial evidence. making the due allowance for the barbarity of the times, and hoping, as we may, that it was the cruelty of others, and not his own fanatacism, that made him an eunuch, one cannot enough admire the elegant simplicity and plain and rational statement. Eusebius has preserved a large fragment of this important document, from which Dr Lardner liberally renders for us the annexed paragraph, which he says is remarkable for politeness, as well as upon other accounts. "Pious men" says he, "are now persecuted and harassed throughout all Asia by new decrees, WHICH WAS NEVER DONE BEFORE: and impudent sycophants, and such as covet the possessions of others, taking occasion from the edicts, rob without fear or shame, and cease not to plunder those who have offended nothing. If these are done by your order, let them be thought to be well done - for it is not reasonable to believe that a just emperor could ever decree what is unjust - and we shall cheerfully bear the reward of such a death. But if this resolution and new edict, which is not fit to be enacted against barbarians and enemies, proceeds not from you, much more would we entreat you not to neglect and give us up to this public rapine" But perhaps it was not, in Dr Lardners view, conducive to the interest of piety and religion, to have continued his quotation into the very next paragraph of this document. For the importance of the truthwith which it teems, this single passage outweighs the value of a thousand volumes of facitious evidences. Other testimonies only only serve to thicken the darkness, and to remove the truth we seek, still further and further from the reach of our research; this leads us directly to it, and with so much the happier effect, as it appears to have been no part of our guide's design to have done so. The sincerity and devotion of this Father's mind to the Christian cause, renders a testimony like his such as Christians themselves must respect. The adverse bearing of the testimony of a friendly party, like the favourable bearing of the admissions of an enemy, is universally considered to constitute the most satisfactory sort of historical certainty. I hold the preservation of this important passage, and bringing it forth into the prominence it challenges, worth a place in my text itself, and the more so, as I feel assure that there is no writer on the Christian evidences whatever, who has hitherto quoted the passege, or who, if he psssessed diligence of research enough to have found it, would not have taken pains to bury it again. This is it: "For the philosophy which we profess, truly flourished aforetime among the barbarous nations; but having blossomed again (or been transplanted) in the great reign of thy ancestor Augustus, it proved to be above all things ominous of good fortune to thy kingdom" The passage continues: "For from thenceforth the Roman empire increased in glory, whose inheritor now you are, greatly beloved indeed by all your subjects: both you and your son will be continually prayed for. Retain, therefore, this religion, which grew as your empire grew; which began with Augustus, which was reverenced by your ancestors before all other religions. Only Nero and Domitian, through the persuasion of certain envious and malicious persons, who were disposed to bring our doctrine into hatred. But your godly ancestors corrected their blind ignorance, and rebuked ofentimes by their epistles the rash enterprises of those who were ill affected towards us. And your own father wrote unto the municipal authorities on our behalf, that they should make no innovations, nor practice anything prejudicial to the Christians. And of yourself, we are fully persuaded that we shall obtain the object of our humble petition, in that your opinion and sentence is correspondent unto that of your predecessors, yea, and even more gracious and far more religious" This document - and it is wholly undisputable - is absolutely fatal to all the historical evidences of Christianity, inasmuch as it demonstrates the facts - 1st. That it is not true that Christians, as such, had ever at any time been the objects of any extensive or notorious political persecution. 2nd. That it is not true that Christianity had any such origin as has been generally imagined for it. 3rd. That it is not true that it made its first appearance at the time generally assigned it; for Tporsdon nxuajey?? (Latin or Greek), it had flourished before that time. 4th That it is not true that it originated in Judea, which was a province of the Roman empire; for it was an importation from some foreign countries which lay beyond the boundaries of that empire. P304 317/ Bishop of Lyons P319 Pantaenus A.D. 193 PANTAENUS has claim on our acquaintance as master of Clemens Alexandria, and Origen, and head of the university or school in Alexandria in Egypt; though, on the best calculations. it would seem that he was living even in the third century. His high authority is indicated in the circumstance of Origen's pleading his example in justification of his study of heathen learning. Photius speaks of him as a hearer of some who had seen the apostles, and even some of the apostles themselves. Eusebius bears this important testimony to his character and place in history: "At the time (about the period of the accession of Commodus) there presided in the school of the faithful at that place (Alexandria) a man highly celebrated on account of his learning, by the name Pantaenus. For there had been from ancient time erected among them a school of sacred learning, which remains to this day: and we have understood that it has been wont to be furnished with men eminent for their eloquence and the study of divine things; and it is said that this person excelled others of that time, having been bought up in the Stoic philosophy; that he was nominated or sent forth as a missionary to preach the gospel of Christ to the nations of the East, and to have travelled to India. For there were yet at that time many evangelists of the word, animated with a divine seal on imitating the apostles, by contributing the enlargement of the gospel, and building up the church; of whom this Pantaenus was one; who is said to have gone to the Indians, where it is commonly said he found the gospel of Mathew, written in the Hebrew tongue, which before his arrival had been delivered to some in that country who had the knowledge of Christ, to whom Bartholomew, one of the apostles, is said to have preached, and to have left with then that writing of Mathew, and that it was preserved among them to that time. This Pantaenus, therefore, for his many excellent performances, was at last made president of the school of Alexandria, where he set forth the treasures of the divine principles both by word of mouth and by his writings" What St. Jerome says of this ancient Christian, is to this purpose: "Pantaenus, a philosopher of the Stoic sect, according to ancient custom of the city of Alexandria, was, at the request of ambassadors from India, sent into that country by Denetrius, bishop of Alexandria, where he found that Bartholomew, one of the twelve apostles, had preached the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, according to the gospel of Mathew, which he bought back with him to Alexandria, written in Hebrew letters" Here we have another clue to the history of Christianity, winding up the same core of the labyrinth, and bringing us through a varied tract to the result which we have already ascertained, under the guidance of Melito, Eusebius, and Philo. Pantaenus, a missionary from the Therapeutean college of Alexandria, seems to have brought from India the idolatrous legends of the Hindoo god Chrishna, whom he imported into the Roman dominions, like a good Eclectic as he was, uniting the characters of the Grecian, or Phoenician Yesus, and the Indian Chrishna, "in one Lord Jesus Christ", whose history, at first contained in the Diegesis, or general narrative, was re-edited by three Egyptian secretaries, afterwards yclept the evangelists, Mathew, Mark, and Luke, and subsequently enlarged by an appendix of Egyptian rhapsodies, under the denomination of the Gospel according to St. John. The discovery of the unknown term in a quadratic equation, never more entirely responded to all requisites of the problem, than these facts do to every rational query that can arise out of the phenomena of the gospel legend. P353 Not only among the apostles, but by those who were called Apostles, themselves, was the reality of the crucifixion denied. In the gospel of the Apostle Barnabas, of which there is extant an Italian translation written in 1470, or in 1480, which Toland* himself saw, and which was sold by Cramer to Prince Eugene, it is explicitly asserted, that "Jesus Christ was not crucified, but he was taken up into the third heaven by the ministry of four angels, Gabriel, Michael, Raphael, and Uriel; that he should not die till the very end of the world, and that it was Judas Iscariot who was crucified in his stead" This account of the matter entirely squares with the account which we have of the bitter and unapassable quarrel which took place between Paul and Barnabas, in the Acts of the Apostles, without any satisfactory accounts of the ground of that quarrel; as well as with the fact that Paul seems to have preferred imposing his gospel on the ignorant and credulous vulgar, and lays such a significant emphasis on the distinction that he preached "Jesus Christ and Him crucified," as if in marked opposition to his former patron, Barnabas, who preached Jesus Christ, but 'not' crucified. The Basilidians, in the very beginning of Christianity, in like manner denied that Christ was crucified, and asserted that it was Simon of Cyrene, who was crucified in hs place: which account of the matter stood its ground from the first to the seventh century, and was the form in which Christianity presented itself to the mind of Mahomet, who, after instructing us how the virgin Mary conceived by smelling a rose, tells us, that "the Jews devised a stratagem against him, but God devised a strategem against them, and God id the best deviser of stratagems" "The malie of his enemies aspersed his reputation, and conspired against his life, but their intention only was guilty; a phantom or a criminal was substituted on the cross, and the innocent Jeus was translated into the seventh heaven."* So much for the evidence of the Crucifixion of Christ. *See the Koran, C iii. v.53, and C. iv. v.156, of Maracci's edition. P356 / 369 External Evidences P377 SUETONIUS, A. D. 110. C. Suetonius Tranquillus, A. d. 110, a Roman historian, in his life of Claudius, who reigned from a. d. 41 to 54 ; says, that " he drove the Jews, who, at the suggestion of Krestus, were constantly rioting, out of Rome.* Oorosius, a Christian writer of the fifth century, who quotes the passage, does not pretend to know whether it was the Christians or Jews who were thus expelled. Notwithstanding the absurdity of the supposition of this Chrestus being Christ, and of Christ heading riots in Rome, this passage has served its generation as Christian Evidence. Dr. Lardner, however, admits that " learned men are not satisfied that this relates to the Christians." P378 1. The disciples were called Christian* first at Antioch Acts 26; that is, unquestionably, they assumed not the name themselves, but it was given them by the Gentiles, in whose sense of it, consequently, the real meaning of it is to be found. 2. Justin Martyr, in his account of the name, which he gives in his apology to Antoninus Pius, thus puns away all possible reference to the name of Christ . as the founder of a sect " We are called Christians. So, then, we are the best of men (Chrestians), and it can never be just to hate what is (chrest) good and kind.* 3. Theophilus of Antioch, after a long string of puns upon Christus, and Chrestus ; thinks that Christus, and not Chrestus, should be the word, because of the sublime significancy of Christus, which signifies "the sweet, and agreeable ; and most useful, and never to be laughed at article of pomatum. " What use of a ship (he argues) unless it be besmeared? What tower or palace would be elegant or useful unless it were greased?" " What man comes into life or enters into a conflict, without being anointed ? What piece of work could be considered finished, if it were not oiled ? The air itself and every creature under heaven, is as it were anointed with light and spirit Undoubtedly we are called Christians ; for this reason, and none other, than because we are anointed with the oil of God" P396 THE EMPEROR ADRIAN, A. D. 134. Tke letter of the 'Emperor Adrian to his brother-in-law Servianus, written in the year 134, and preserved in Flavius Vepicus, who flourished about a. d. 300. *"Egypt, which you commended to me, my dearest Serviamus, I have found to be wholly fickle and inconstant, and continually wafted about by every breath of fame. The worshippers of Serapis are Christians; and those are devoted to the God Serapis, who I find call themselves the bishops of Christ. There is here no ruler of a Jewish synagogue, no Samaritan, no Presbyter of the Christians, who is not either an astrologer, a soothsayer, or a minister to obscene pleasures. The very patriarch himself, should he come into Egypt, would be re-quired by some to worship Serapis, and by others to worship Christ. They have, however, but one God, and it is one and the self-same whom Christians, Jews, and Gentiles alike adore, i.e., money." Coincident with this unsophisticated testimony, is the never-re-futed charge of Zozimus, that the Emperor Constantine learned the Christian Religion from an Egyptian; and the fact admitted by So-crates, that the cross was found in the temple of Serapis, and claimed by his worshippers as the proper symbol of their religion. Edited May 12 by pi3141 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pi3141 Posted May 12 Author Share Posted May 12 (edited) Satan - the Dragon - are they ancient memories? The classic work by Bousset on the Satan and Antichrist myth being derived from the earlier Babylonian Dragon and Combat legends, which in turn were drawn from Egypt has been the accepted scholarly work for centuries. The work has been reviewed and and mostly validated with some updates and corrections by a later scholar. The works are here - The Antichrist legend; by Bousset, Wilhelm Internet Archive - Link - https://archive.org/details/antichristlegen00keangoog And here - The Origins and Early Development of the Antichrist Myth Link - https://www.degruyter.com/document/doi/10.1515/9783110869545/html?lang=en The myth goes like this - there was a war in heaven, an eternal struggle if you will, between good and evil, and the evil force is defeated and 'cast down' ' to the 'bottomless pit' causing great desolation in its wake, where it broods, influencing mankind and plotting its eventual rise to fight the war again where it is defeated for good and light reigns eternal. That sort of thing. Well I'm thinking this is all sounding like an ancient asteroid or comet strike. Comets could be mistaken by ancient people for 'fiery dragons' or 'fiery serpents' and an asteroid or comet strike on earth may have looked like a fiery serpent was cast down from heaven and if landing in the ocean - the bottomless pit - caused tidal waves and fires and the impact winter effects after the strike creating desolation and death that would have taken a few years to recover from. In these myths we may be looking at ancient memories of a catastrophic comet strike that affected the ancient people, that was passed down to us as the Dragon myth from Babylon via the corresponding ancient myths from Egypt and beyond, but these myths may relate a catastrophic event in our past that they describe as a 'fiery dragon cast down from heaven' Food for thought. Edited May 12 by pi3141 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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