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How do you think the universe started ?


QuodHumana
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On 9/14/2022 at 8:00 AM, Campion said:

 

This reminds me of the Steady State Model (alternative to the Big Bang) which was a respectable theory with a minority support until the cosmic background microwave radiation was discovered in 1964 which (for reasons I can't remember) favoured the Big Bang. 

I have always thought the big bang to be bullshit and now early observations from the new James Webb orbiting telescope seem to point to that fact

Edited by peter
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9 hours ago, jois said:

Sound like the big bang theory to me

Yes it's not my theory just what certain kabbalists were portraying I think.

Problems with big bang theory too is where it came from ,as Terrence McKenna once said  paraphrased

"they say give us One free  miracle and we can explain the rest "etc

 

( also said "they" recruited him in their organisation which is besides the point)

 

Or again perhaps we can't perceive beginning because of who we are inside it?

 

 

 

Edited by Talorgan
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11 hours ago, ManxCat3 said:

 

The fundamental problem is the only two possibilities are unacceptable which is why I think it means that there must be something which is the equivalent of  a God because its the only way out of the unsolvable problem.

 

But doesn't that just shift the problem to: where does God come from? 

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1 hour ago, Talorgan said:

Problems with big bang theory too is where it came from ,as Terrence McKenna once said  paraphrased

 

I can agree with this problem but it runs deep, deeper than my imagination. Asking 'where' or 'when' presupposes the existence of space and time, but if the creation of the universe was also the creation of space-time, there was no pre-existing 'where' for anything to come from. The problem is, I can't imagine the nothing from which something emerged. Even using the past tense to describe it is suspect, because time only exists inside the bubble of space-time.

 

It's in this state of mind that I can begin to glimpse spiritual teachers who say that this is the void, the emptiness. 

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4 hours ago, Talorgan said:

Yes it's not my theory just what certain kabbalists were portraying I think.

Problems with big bang theory too is where it came from ,as Terrence McKenna once said  paraphrased

"they say give us One free  miracle and we can explain the rest "etc

 

( also said "they" recruited him in their organisation which is besides the point)

 

Or again perhaps we can't perceive beginning because of who we are inside it?

 

 

 

The big bang theory is pretty clear where the big bang came from. It's less clear where the energy that banged came from.

 

But then it doesn't at all try to state what was where before the big bang. Just that it did indeed rapidly exspand.

 

It seems unlikely that we will ever know. At that point it stops being science and becomes speculation

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2 hours ago, shabbirss said:

012.jpg

Magnetism causes that. :)

Centripetal and centrifugal vortices stem from magnetic fields.

image.jpeg.a929f9fded6f0678e77b5162d3bc6ceb.jpeg
At the centre the blackhole is counterspace, much like in space, a blackhole is merely counterspace whereby light is stopped from escaping due to the magnetic sinkhole towards an infinitely small place called counterspace.

https://phys.org/news/2015-06-magnetism-manifests-universe.html

I will say it again, space-time is an 
absurdity.

Edited by TheConsultant
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On 9/15/2022 at 7:55 AM, Campion said:

 

But doesn't that just shift the problem to: where does God come from? 

No because thats why its God because it doesnt have to be created by anything and can also have existed forever

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7 hours ago, ManxCat3 said:

No because thats why its God because it doesnt have to be created by anything and can also have existed forever

 

This is a well known line of argument in the philosophy of religion. It goes something like 

 

Believer: everything needs to have a cause, by the law of cause and effect. God is the first cause of the universe. 

 

Skeptic: Well what's the cause of God then? 

 

Believer: God is eternal, "begotten not created", he is the creator and not part of the creation. 

 

Skeptic: But you said earlier that everything needs a creator, now you've made an exception to this rule. Not everything needs a creator, and things can be eternal after all.  If God doesn't need a creator, why should the universe need one? 

 

So it's like asking what's the difference between the physical universe and the spiritual, to explain why they obey different rules? 

Edited by Campion
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3 hours ago, Campion said:

 

This is a well known line of argument in the philosophy of religion. It goes something like 

 

Believer: everything needs to have a cause, by the law of cause and effect. God is the first cause of the universe. 

 

Skeptic: Well what's the cause of God then? 

 

Believer: God is eternal, "begotten not created", he is the creator and not part of the creation. 

 

Skeptic: But you said earlier that everything needs a creator, now you've made an exception to this rule. Not everything needs a creator, and things can be eternal after all.  If God doesn't need a creator, why should the universe need one? 

 

So it's like asking what's the difference between the physical universe and the spiritual, to explain why they obey different rules? 

In that case the universe may be God then, im defining it as whatever it is that had no creator.

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10 hours ago, ManxCat3 said:

In that case the universe may be God then, im defining it as whatever it is that had no creator.

 

Pantheism is the only type of theism my rational mind can accept, and I like the way it goes full circle and collapses the distinction with atheism. 

 

However it doesn't take us any further forward, because we still don't know how it all started in the first place. If I look at myself and ask what created me, what would I say? Just my parents? But that misses out the context they were in; imo it's better to say that the whole universe created me at that point in time. 

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9 hours ago, Campion said:

 

Pantheism is the only type of theism my rational mind can accept, and I like the way it goes full circle and collapses the distinction with atheism. 

 

However it doesn't take us any further forward, because we still don't know how it all started in the first place. If I look at myself and ask what created me, what would I say? Just my parents? But that misses out the context they were in; imo it's better to say that the whole universe created me at that point in time. 

You could say it didn;t need to start because since the universe is God, it didn't need to have a start or be created by something else.

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