What has happened to the left?

[sb123]

I see a few posts on here from people who are anti-establishment/anti-Zionist etc but hold conservative or right-wing (in the most basic sense) views; I just wondered why that was?

 

I have always classed myself as a hardcore socialist, yet find it hard to align with any political party or people in particular, because of how the left has been hijacked over the years. My priorities are just to have a fair society with equality of opportunity, rights for workers, stronger unions, investment in the NHS/housing/welfare etc. I would most align with the likes of Tony Benn/Dennis Skinner/more historically, Attlee/Bevan.

 

Now I am in my 20s, I grew up in South Yorkshire, which is a) one of the poorest parts of the country, and b) an area run by the most bent & twisted figures I’ve come across - look at the likes of Rotherham Council & the figures inside, and the likes of South Yorkshire Police who, apart from their national scandals (Hillsborough, Orgreave, grooming scandal which still goes on now) I could reel off countless stories about. This through my life has fuelled my hatred for the establishment and authority (but I take the view it needs reform & these bent fuckers need throwing out rather than all this ‘defund the police’ shite)

 

I just feel so disillusioned by these other so called ‘left wingers’ and in particular the Labour Party. I am surrounded by middle class, champagne socialists who are all BLACK LIVES MATTER and LGBTQ+ RIGHTS and rant on about all this shit, but you’d never catch them on a protest about how many children are in poverty, how many people sleep rough & are killed by homelessness, how there is a housing and benefit crisis in this country. I guess they have had never had to live through that or experience those issues first hand so it’s not exactly high on their agenda, so they have to find something to feel offended about. I guess that’s what the Labour Party is now made up of. Truth be told, I could not give a fuck about “BLM” and all this “I identify as ____” crap because I don’t care if you’re black, white, gay, straight, I just see people as people and within reason have a general view of respect for all. many people have been corrupted & blinded by this evil agenda that runs the world, or have just fully sold themselves out..

 

What has happened to the left? Are there people here who feel the same? If people have right wing views, why is that - has that always been the case? It frustrates me that I find myself people agreeing with the ‘alt-right’ and figures relating to this movement more than I would want to stand with some of these left-wing lunatics; no wonder people see us as the ‘loony left’. Is there any way back to traditional left views or has the cult infiltrated and diverted people from the true sense of being a socialist?

 

Appreciate anyone’s inputs and thoughts... cheers for the read

 

 

[Michi713]

IDK I’m stupid with politics, but according to this definition:

 

“under socialism, all citizens share equally in economic resources as allocated by a democratically-elected government.”

 

The problem with this appears to be democratically-elected government officials who, by nature, are power hungry and will inevitably steer society to either a communist or fascist state. 
 

I’m American.  Many flaws with capitalism.  It’s exploitative, markets need (some) regulation.
Capitalism and individualism worked better here when there was morality.  Charities were utilized in a moral, capitalistic society to help those in need as opposed to being forced by the state to redistribute wealth.  
 

Since the moral degradation has set in over here ideas of socialism and the reality of fascism have crept in.  
 

 

 

Edited August 20, 2020 by Michi713

[Guest Gone Fishing...]

On 8/19/2020 at 8:29 PM, sb123 said:

What has happened to the left?

lt got hijacked by Tony Blair and hasn't recovered since.
Jeremy Corbyn almost got it back on track (with the largest membership vote for his leadership - twice).
But the right wing infiltrators along with the LGBT / Feminism / Anti-Racist advocates have killed it.
The Class War it used to fight has been painted over..

BC  :O(

[screamingeagle]

it got hijacked in the 50,60 by marxist,through universitis 

[Fluke]

I'd say the conservative have been hijacked by a form of blairism too. 

 

A part from the Corbyn era there's very little difference between the two major parties. 

 

It's easy to fall into the left / right trap. I think it's clear most of the tyrannical stuff is coming from the so called left. When it used to be the right authoritarians. 

 

However it could easily become the right again. You only have to read the comments on a daily mail article to realise that a lot of the right wing types would happily call in a police state, or Draconian measures to sort a problem out. When in reality what is needed is just common sense.

 

And I'm not one of these types that hates the police.  I do believe in law and order. And dangerous crimes that are committed should have tough sentences. 

 

Apart from old fashioned socialist types, which I don't agree with but a lot are genuine and believe in those values for the right reasons. 

 

The new breed of snowflakes coming up are clear as day to anyone who can read the comments on a YouTube video. It's in fact so demoralising to see the stupidity it makes one want to put their head in an oven with the gas on. A sort of fake moral outrage echos from them, and we are to bow to their superiority. When actually to me, the speakers who seem fair, reasonable, and kind hearted are usually conservative and right leaning. 

 

Politics is a toxic dirty business. However I do like to keep up to date with the culture, and discussions about art, music, sometimes economics. And the most stimulating speakers for me at least these days are of the conservative ilk. Even dare I say, the public school boys.

 

I suppose there is a somewhat strange mutual alliance between British working class and the upper class. Especially if they are of similar political persuasions. 

 

That old phrase about the upper class not liking the middle class because the middle class are always trying to get further up. And the upper class not liking the middle class. But the working class know where they stand and so a mutual understanding is established. A gross generalisation I know, but I'm willing to bet there is something to that. 

 

Anyways class like politics is divide and rule and appears to be a construct. Class warfare I think is the root to a lot of the cultural problems especially in the UK. Only have to to switch on sly news or BBC to see the hatred and bile that these toffy nosed lunatics spill. They hate the average Joe. It's not quite the same distain as was written in one of Orwell's books, but I'm willing to be not much has changed in, erm 150 years in that regard?  

 

In short, the left have gone stark raving mad. Helped by out of touch powerful people not relating in any way shape or form to the majority of common sense left leaning folk. 

[Fluke]

It used to be considered impertinent at least in England to talk about voting, or politics at the dinner table. Not helped by the social media generation this seems to be no longer the case. It seems, and excuse my ignorance if I am wrong a bit of an Americanism? Not dissing America or Americans. But they are culturally more in your face with things, while us Brits are more reserved.

 

We do have a tendency to adopt some of the more obnoxious aspects of their culture. In short we are becoming more Americanised. 

 

I do notice this on the left more than the right. "Those who shout the loudest" and all of that.. 

Edited August 21, 2020 by Fluke

[bradlaw]

On 8/20/2020 at 1:45 PM, screamingeagle said:

it got hijacked in the 50,60 by marxist,through universitis 

 

Indeed ! All these leftist loons need to look up Emma Goldberg ... she found out the social utopia was an utter horror show. Dumb cunt really and spent her life trying to get back to the USA after being booted out with her commie ways. America needs to duplicate the deportations of yesteryear, pretty much the whole left needs to go.

[bamboozooka]

the left are self imploding

 

[rideforever]

Something happened in the 1990s that change the world.

Globalisation metastasised.

Quantitave easing.

As the money became plastic and not gold ... that plastic-ness trickled through society, everything became "relative" or better it became about money only with no reality.

It's possible that the reason was that in the cycle of the elements, the 80s burnt too much energy, and the cycle was broken afterwards ... too much had been spent, like a giant orgasm.  And then there ware a quiet time ... afterwards at the end of 90s there was an opportunity to sort of restart, but dark forces used this gap ... to introduce many degenerative things.  Like Maastricht, the EU's world domination, both the left and right were damaged, then the 2001 911 business ... and so on.

At least one large break in the chain happened ... a tear between the generations, so that young people particularly millennials had no connection to the past to the health past, to the images of the past, to the church or the countryside or even industry ... and it's those people the millennials who are now fucking everything up everywhere.  They are the damned generation.

 

Anyway ... it's a difficult world.  Take care of business at all levels.  Protect yourself, heal yourself, grow yourself.

Don't live in anyone's dream.

Be close to the land, to the ground, to the earth.

Steer clear of people and careers that are too wordy, too ego-ey, too full of personality.

Manual work is better.

Seek out the few worthy teachers, alive or dead, mortal or immortal, at all levels there are some.

Live well so that you can die well.

That is the best that can be done.

We are not in heaven, we are in a place full of strange people, a crossing point.

Don't stop just go straight, chop wood, carry water, remember the light.

Keep calm, and do what needs to be done.