Addiction to Blaming People

[rideforever]

I had a strange revelation the other day when I challenged myself to think clearly about "slavery".

My thoughts took me to the strange conclusion that slavery was RIGHT, in fact. 

Between about 1600 - 1800, and that's a long time ago now slavery was RIGHT.

 

And if you were born in that era, what do you think you would be doing - you would do like they did.

And if they were born in this era they would do like you did.

And in 300 years those people, maybe they look at you in 2020 and condemn you.

 

So ...

You could say that "if you transport people from 1600 to this era and they tried slavery then that would be wrong".

Correct, it would be.  But they wouldn't, they would like according to their society.

So such a statement is meaningless.

 

There are no evil people.  People do, more or less, they best they can.

This is quite shocking because we are so used to blaming people ... to live in order to blame.

Our whole miserable identity is oriented around blaming.

It's quite miserable ... "I live to condemn people".

 

The real slavery that almost all humans live under ... is this hatred of each other.

Of painting pictures to maim other people with words.

Of making zero attempt to see the truth, to understand that people are just people.

And so are you.

You are just the same, just a flawed trying your best person.

 

And what is more ... this way of living is very harmful ... to you.

If you hate others, and paint nasty pictures about them ... the effect on you ... is that you think they will do the same.

And so you are afraid.  Afraid that they will judge you.

Afraid that they will point the finger at you.

And so you CONFORM, you jump through hoops ... because of that fear.

That stems from your own finger pointing activity that you live by.

And then you conform.

And you lose contact with who you are.

You no longer live as yourself, taking care of business.

That is true slavery - and most are inside it.

 

You could say ... "well okay, but as we know now slavery was wrong" ... it's sort of a subtle condemnation of the past.

Until you can say "SLAVERY WAS RIGHT" ... only then do you let them go.

Only then, do you truly accept that people are just people.

Only then do you lay down your hatred.

 

It's a revolution.

 

But ... but ... we can learn from these things, we can learn from the past.

But that is very different.

Few people can learn about reality from the past, they are too busy either celebrating conquerors.

Or even better pointing their finger at "bad people".

 

And thus, they lose their souls.

 

 

[rideforever]

What is there to be learnt from the history of British slavery in the W.Indies?
Is there anything?

What actually can we learn - through from your mind the usual blindness, utopias and lack of interest.

 

Does anyone actually care about "Black people" ... or are "Black people" just used for the miserable to feel a little better about themselves.

Who are the "Black people" ?
African people are not actually Black, they are dark brown, sometimes very dark ... all different.  Different people, tribes, histories, cultures.

Africa is undeveloped and their culture is of a previous era, but yet they have culture, they have feelings they have souls and land, they have rivers and they have blood.

 

"We are all equal".

What ... the ... fuck ... does ... that ... mean.

NOTHING !

Do you even see that "Black people" ... are people, they are real ... they have lives. 

They are not waiting for you to free them.  
How will you free them ... they work, they eat, they have families.

Maybe you just shut your mouth now with your "equal".

 

Those African people who were being traded by other African people and sold to the British to be shipped over to the West Indies ...

large amounts of the British crews also died on those journeys as the viruses and diseases don't stay in any part of the ship.

They sailed together and died together.

And the British were Christians, perhaps those African people jumped at the chance to go with them.

They would have seen people with high technology and a moral code.

On deck the British read out the King James Bible, and justice, and love your neighbour.

What was happening back in Africa - all manner of brutality, brutality even today.

 

During the Inquisition 10% of prisoners in the ordinary Spanish prison system were dying.
They jumped at the chance to go to the Inquisition prisons, as they were treated so much better - their prospects were much much better.
That is a fact.
The Spanish prisoners wanted to change prisons to the better one.

 

Working in a field in the West Indies probably was a kind of paradise - better than being in the Central London smog isn't it.

And their descendants now own the West Indies and indeed live in paradise.

What was the prospects for those who stayed with the African slave traders.
Dire.  Truly dire.

Uncomfortable ?

Well maybe we have to all see that life isn't free, there is a lottery, there is failure poverty death.
But there are also opportunities ... sometimes slim, but yet you have to take them.

Nobody lives in a utopia here, neither the vegetables trees animals nor people.

 

There is much to learn from these episodes in the history of the Earth.

 

[HistoryIsComplex]

A small % of people is "born with a fucked up mindset" regardless of whether you are in the year 1400 or the year 2045.

 

While a normal person neither wants to dominate other people, nor enslave them, nor hurt them, nor become "Dictator Of The World", this small % does want precisely that.

 

This small % is obsessed with being ABOVE others, with being IN CHARGE of other peoples' affairs, with COMMANDING what other people SHOULD do.

 

We tend to think "Southern Slavery, Nazi Germany or Stalin's Russia just couldn't happen today".

 

Yes it could. Because just like 500 or 1000 ago or 2000 years ago, a small % of people is born with that exact same "fucked up mindset".

 

History doesn not repeat itself because of the actions of 99% of the people being the same. It repeats itself because 1% is born with a faulty mind.

 

 

 

 

 

[bflat]

6 hours ago, rideforever said:

...slavery was RIGHT.

I'm sorry, but any exploitation of another man is wrong on so many levels that it's really not worth discussing. On top of that, you are in here shilling for the Jewish slave traders whose fortunes were made on the backs of these human beings.

[rideforever]

1 hour ago, bflat said:

'm sorry, but any exploitation of another man is wrong on so many levels that it's really not worth discussing. On top of that, you are in here shilling for the Jewish slave traders whose fortunes were made on the backs of these human beings.

 

If you were born in 1600 you would have done exactly the same thing.

And if you were born in the dark ages in 1300 you would have done the same thing as the people then.
And if you were born in 2500 and look at you now, you would condemn you in 2020 as being evil.

This is very illuminating because you can stop hating people now.

But who would you be without your hatred of other people ?
That is the question, and the opportunity.

This hatred of other people and thinking that you are better ...
That is the true slavery that everyone on the planet is under.
And it's a slavery that comes from your own stupidity and lying.
People talk of the slave trade ... but spending your life pointing fingers makes you a slave.
And by your own choice.
Which means you can be free by your own choice.
But the price is telling the truth, and people prefer their hatred.

 

Edited June 14, 2020 by rideforever

[rideforever]

Not that you can't learn from history ... but ... the thing to learn is different.

It's not that people did do fantastic with slavery.

But we all have to take opportunities and deal with life the best we can.

Why do the slaves flock to Dubai to work on skyscrapers, to be slaves.
They want to.

Why did people go to Australia voluntarily.
They want to.
Not everyone is born in a palace.

Yes ... there are many things to learn.
 

The slaves who were taking to the West Indies, came from poor and low caste parts of Africa ... their prospects were very dire.

The ones who went to the W.Indies now own large parts of the Carribbean Islands.
Fact.
The ones who didn't go most likely perished meaninglessly.

Who can bear to look reality in the eye, and simply take care of business.
Or shall we waste time dreaming of another utopia that never happens.

 

[Lizard Spirit]

I think it is ironic that most of us are just modern day institutionalized slaves, to religious dogma, political systems, wage slavery, taxes to pay, forced to attend the education indoctrination system/camps, and yet, these same slaves are out protesting slavery and tearing down statues.  

 

I mean, these are conversations we need to have.  Racism and abuse of other human beings is never ok.  And may be some statues could be put in museums to learn from history.  

 

But right now, it is kind of like blind people protesting blindness.  Not going to change much at this point.  

 

If we do not like a film playing on a screen, you do not destroy the screen.  You get to the causal factors of the film, you change it at the actual time of filming or in the editing room.  People are in pain, but are taking it out on the wrong sources such as each other.  Dont beat up another slave or gladiator, try to find the cause of the pain and fix it at that point.  

Edited June 14, 2020 by Lizard Spirit

[itsnotallrightjack]

It's a bit simplistic to say that all of us would have been involved in the slave trade if we'd lived in the times that this went on, because it was only the wealthy that owned slaves and had them in their homes. The poorer people, the workers ( coal miners,  farm labourers, blacksmiths, factory workers, chimney sweeps, street hawkers etc)  of which made up most of the population did not. None of my ancestors were involved in the slave trade at all. They were country farming folk.

 

And even amongst the wealthy folk there were those who found slavery despicable and campaigned to ban it.

 

Edited June 14, 2020 by itsnotallrightjack

[Dagmar Gross]

12 hours ago, rideforever said:

I had a strange revelation the other day when I challenged myself to think clearly about "slavery".

My thoughts took me to the strange conclusion that slavery was RIGHT, in fact. 

Between about 1600 - 1800, and that's a long time ago now slavery was RIGHT.

 

And if you were born in that era, what do you think you would be doing - you would do like they did.

And if they were born in this era they would do like you did.

And in 300 years those people, maybe they look at you in 2020 and condemn you.

 

So ...

You could say that "if you transport people from 1600 to this era and they tried slavery then that would be wrong".

Correct, it would be.  But they wouldn't, they would like according to their society.

So such a statement is meaningless.

 

There are no evil people.  People do, more or less, they best they can.

This is quite shocking because we are so used to blaming people ... to live in order to blame.

Our whole miserable identity is oriented around blaming.

It's quite miserable ... "I live to condemn people".

 

The real slavery that almost all humans live under ... is this hatred of each other.

Of painting pictures to maim other people with words.

Of making zero attempt to see the truth, to understand that people are just people.

And so are you.

You are just the same, just a flawed trying your best person.

 

And what is more ... this way of living is very harmful ... to you.

If you hate others, and paint nasty pictures about them ... the effect on you ... is that you think they will do the same.

And so you are afraid.  Afraid that they will judge you.

Afraid that they will point the finger at you.

And so you CONFORM, you jump through hoops ... because of that fear.

That stems from your own finger pointing activity that you live by.

And then you conform.

And you lose contact with who you are.

You no longer live as yourself, taking care of business.

That is true slavery - and most are inside it.

 

You could say ... "well okay, but as we know now slavery was wrong" ... it's sort of a subtle condemnation of the past.

Until you can say "SLAVERY WAS RIGHT" ... only then do you let them go.

Only then, do you truly accept that people are just people.

Only then do you lay down your hatred.

 

It's a revolution.

 

But ... but ... we can learn from these things, we can learn from the past.

But that is very different.

Few people can learn about reality from the past, they are too busy either celebrating conquerors.

Or even better pointing their finger at "bad people".

 

And thus, they lose their souls.

 

 

You could also reel back your thoughts to the Viking era or the Romans. Being captured for selling you into slavery was normal then too, as was for poor or badly indebted people to sell their children into slavery or themselves. But I don't think people were very happy being slaves. Especially if they had been snatched away out of their lives and transported to countries very far away. There have never been any good stories told about that, because for a free person to be put through that had to be dreadful!

No, slavery has only ever been good for the slavers and slave owners, never for the slaves. Therefore, it has always been wrong. Criminally wrong. Of course slave owners made fortunes with their products when they didn't have to pay wages to their workers.

And nowadays? Why are there so many private prisons in the US? With so many people being jailed for contrived offenses? Because all the prisoners are being used to produce goods of all sorts almost for free. The British investigator and TV presenter Simon Reeve did a very informative episode on just that in his first series on the Americas. Shown on the BBC.

Here is series one: https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m00095p0

[bflat]

23 hours ago, rideforever said:

If you were born in 1600 you would have done exactly the same thing.

Quite the assumption.

 

23 hours ago, rideforever said:

This is very illuminating because you can stop hating people now.

LOL, I hate those who enslave us today. I feel my hatred is directed in the right place and I will continue to hate happily until this shit ends.

 

 

[rideforever]

11 minutes ago, bflat said:

LOL, I hate those who enslave us today. I feel my hatred is directed in the right place and I will continue to hate happily until this shit ends.

 

I'm all for it.  If you hate then really hate until the smoke is coming out of your ears.
At least that produces some results of some kind.

I just hate people who don't know what hate is but keep going on about it, I hate the dead.

Anyone who is alive or attempting to be alive is a friend.

 

[Ecki Divad]

On 6/14/2020 at 12:18 PM, rideforever said:

I had a strange revelation the other day when I challenged myself to think clearly about "slavery".

My thoughts took me to the strange conclusion that slavery was RIGHT, in fact. 

Between about 1600 - 1800, and that's a long time ago now slavery was RIGHT.

 

And if you were born in that era, what do you think you would be doing - you would do like they did.

And if they were born in this era they would do like you did.

And in 300 years those people, maybe they look at you in 2020 and condemn you.

 

So ...

You could say that "if you transport people from 1600 to this era and they tried slavery then that would be wrong".

Correct, it would be.  But they wouldn't, they would like according to their society.

So such a statement is meaningless.

 

There are no evil people.  People do, more or less, they best they can.

This is quite shocking because we are so used to blaming people ... to live in order to blame.

Our whole miserable identity is oriented around blaming.

It's quite miserable ... "I live to condemn people".

 

The real slavery that almost all humans live under ... is this hatred of each other.

Of painting pictures to maim other people with words.

Of making zero attempt to see the truth, to understand that people are just people.

And so are you.

You are just the same, just a flawed trying your best person.

 

And what is more ... this way of living is very harmful ... to you.

If you hate others, and paint nasty pictures about them ... the effect on you ... is that you think they will do the same.

And so you are afraid.  Afraid that they will judge you.

Afraid that they will point the finger at you.

And so you CONFORM, you jump through hoops ... because of that fear.

That stems from your own finger pointing activity that you live by.

And then you conform.

And you lose contact with who you are.

You no longer live as yourself, taking care of business.

That is true slavery - and most are inside it.

 

You could say ... "well okay, but as we know now slavery was wrong" ... it's sort of a subtle condemnation of the past.

Until you can say "SLAVERY WAS RIGHT" ... only then do you let them go.

Only then, do you truly accept that people are just people.

Only then do you lay down your hatred.

 

It's a revolution.

 

But ... but ... we can learn from these things, we can learn from the past.

But that is very different.

Few people can learn about reality from the past, they are too busy either celebrating conquerors.

Or even better pointing their finger at "bad people".

 

And thus, they lose their souls.

 

 

 

I think, if I'm understanding correctly, you're criticising the tendency to judge other people in situations we have never experienced without a proper attempt to understand the context of their actions or their intentions.  If so, I would agree with that.  I think it is the result of failing to anchor moral ideas to human interest, which ultimately twists moral action into narcissism and selfishness.  

 

Increasingly, I'm tending to the view about morality of Greeks like Plato and Aristotle who argued that virtue is the result of the most complete knowledge.  I can recognise the point when I see people around me who equate doing good with good feelings.

Edited June 15, 2020 by Ecki Divad

[rideforever]

1 hour ago, Ecki Divad said:

Increasingly, I'm tending to the view about morality of Greeks like Plato and Aristotle who argued that virtue is the result of the most complete knowledge.  I can recognise the point when I see people around me who equate doing good with good feelings.

 

Yes indeed ... being-knoweldge rather than words.

Being-knowledge is when something Objective has been understood deep inside and absorbed into you and you now function from it ... the more knowledgeable you are ... in your being, the more "moral" you are ... or the more of the Objective Light you own inside you.

Good feelings in deed ... but then again eating 5 tubs of chocolate ice cream also feels "good" ... or does it.  One has to learn to master oneself, it takes time.

 

We should know that we cannot really understand the heart of any slave or slaver that we read in a book.  How can we.  And we should watch ourselves as we attempt to pick an emotional episode from the past, and trying to make something of it ... for our own egoistical gains ... so that we can judge, and be "right" ... this is all lying.  But we like it, we like the emotional rush of being right - and those people are not here to defend themselves are they.  It's a cheap shot.

There are more intelligent ways to extract learning from history, but intelligence requires effort.

 

[jupiter12]

People blame others based on the way they've been trained/programmed/brainwashed to blame others ,,

 

On a small scale ,, I always blame everyone else ,, coz it is always someone elses fault ,, Me ,, I never make mistakes ,, ,, being perfect I always get it right ,, 

 

Not like the Government ,, who always get it wrong ,,

 

I blame God !! 

 

[Moonlight]

 

[rooey]

there are bad people and beings. they might not have a bad origin, or whatever, who knows that, but their actions excuse them from further existence and need of punishment to some degree. Suppose that believing there are bad people could fuel that in a conscious projection way, but then that could be some new (c)age mumbo jumbo trick. That's the sort of stuff they push and that scene has quite an amount of sharks and predators. 

The time is coming where things will be made clear, all lies shall be revealed and no evil may remain hidden 

[awake]

Everybody should be allowed the freedom and opportunity to live their own self-sustaining lifestyle, away from this slave system we live in. In such a utopia, you would not have money, you would live off the land and sea, have only the basic needs, and not be subject to anything else

 

is there such a place ? no, we are not allowed. The closest we can do is go solo in some remote coastal area or on a small island

Edited June 16, 2020 by awake

[rideforever]

22 minutes ago, awake said:

have only the basic needs, and not be subject to anything else

 

Yes but please see ... even in traditional aboriginal communities ... there is tension, organisation.  And it's not just people ... there are other creatures who also affect.
Why do people wish to be "unaffected" ?  What is the problem actually, do you wish to be dead ?
Well ... the spiritual answer is that the consciousness of human beings is too low to be stable, they have no stable identity ... it is always fluctuating, and it's stressful inside their head.  That is a big problem - it's projected outside .... but the thing is as many very rich people discover from their golden mansions ... that when they are alone in their room, the problem is still there.

So, a more intelligent understanding and action .... will lead to better results than that.

But yes on the other hand there are people who cause a lot of destruction ... for whatever reason.  Each aspect of life has to be looked carefully for better understanding.

[awake]

2 hours ago, rideforever said:

Yes but please see ... even in traditional aboriginal communities ... there is tension, organisation.  And it's not just people ... there are other creatures who also affect.
Why do people wish to be "unaffected" ?  What is the problem actually, do you wish to be dead ?
Well ... the spiritual answer is that the consciousness of human beings is too low to be stable, they have no stable identity

 

Ok let there be a rule that there are minimum rules. You will go there knowing this and you serve or help others if you wish to but never force anyone to do anything. Most rules are consequences of other rules...  the more you make, the worse it gets. Whoever doesn't understand balance shall be evicted

[rooey]

rideforever, you are generalising a bit much in my opinion 

[rideforever]

3 minutes ago, awake said:

Whoever doesn't understand balance shall be evicted

 

So there must be some to do that ... 

 

Anyway, this world is imperfect, it is a challenge of one imperfect situation after another ... one picnic after another where we haven't got all the ingredients but we make do ... and we, all of us must aspire for truth, honesty and wisdom ... that has to be done again and again, life challenges us and let us try again and yet again, one mountain after another, until the end.
Until it is all shining like the Sun rising.

 

[awake]

Just now, rideforever said:

Anyway, this world is imperfect

 

It always will be when the minority rule and make silly decisions