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Historical and Modern Slavery


tooth
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4 hours ago, Principiis Obsta said:

Look at the UK Royal family's involvement - the Royal African Company for example. Elizabeth I was involved as was Charles II and his son (future James II) whom Coulson worked for for the Royal African Company. 

 

In the 1800s the UK govt took out a loan to buy the freedom of all slaves in the British Empire.

 

While this was no golden measure , because the slaves themselves receieved nothing in compensation with all monies going to the owner , it did begin the process of ending slavery as we understand it in the northern hemisphere.

 

As usual in our select communist schooling system this will not be mentioned , nor will it be mentioned that slavery continued unabated in other systems of governence and still does to this day.

 

The loan thay the UK govt took out in the 1800s was not fully repaid until 2015.

 

Again while this is no golden measure , it does mean that living British people who payed taxes prior to 2015 paid off that loan as well

 

Something to consider. Or not

 

Again it was not a golden measure , as what sometimes happened was slaves were intentionally still being bought for cheap in Africa and resold to " freedom " to the British Empire.

 

A nasty loophole indeed exploited by some.

 

 

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On 6/9/2020 at 9:56 PM, tooth said:

 

Velma posted a 2hr talk from Prof Tony Martin on this very subject 

 

It is in this thread on page one

 

Aaron Lopez (1731–1782), was an Anglo-Portuguese Jewish merchant, and philanthropist. Through his varied commercial ventures, he became the wealthiest person in Newport, Rhode Island, in British America. Lopez owned or controlled 30 slave ships. By the early 1770s, Lopez' tax assessment was twice that of any other resident. The reason he was successful was that his business interests (from slavery) were so diverse. He manufactured spermaceti candles, ships, barrels, rum, and chocolate. He had business interests in the production of textiles, clothes, shoes, hats, and bottles. Ezra Stiles, the Congregational minister in Newport and future president of Yale College, described Lopez as "a merchant of the first eminence" and wrote that the "extent of [his] commerce probably [was] surpassed by no merchant in America".

 

 

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Queen Elizabeth 1st was so upset to hear of the slave trade, she wept. Then she was shown the products sugar, salt, cocoa, coffee, gold, pearls, etc, being brought to England and immediately became a partner in the trade. The so-called Elizabethan period was financed with money from slavery and the slave trade. The Royal family actually monopolised it, they owned 3 major slave trade companies! a very good article here from the first mayor of Montego Bay, well worth a read
http://www.jamaicaobserver.com/news/the-british-monarchy-8217-s-involvement-in-slavery-the-british-monarchy-8217-s-involvement-in-slavery_128602?profile=1096

So are we going to take the wealth from the royal family? All the jewels and gold etc they’ve stolen from other countries? 
they paid off the slave owners when the trade was abolished, very generous reparations (Ask David Cameron’s family) and we paid, in taxes, took us until 2015! Not the royal family, us. Why weren’t the slave owners simply told to free their slaves, why recompense them? And if you are going to pay them, ask the ppl who made the most from it to pay! The Royals! I want my taxes back! 

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On 6/9/2020 at 2:04 PM, rideforever said:

 

Yes but there are other considerations on this planet of continuous disco chaos.

If the people are in general badly behaved unregulated and have no real direction and spend their days staring at the phone ... then giving them more power is not going to have the desired effect.

 

That would be anarchy.  Libertarianism is not anarachy.  There will still have to be laws that need enforcing.  People that want to waste away their life staring at a phone, then that's their problem and they'll end up unemployed and living out of a dumpster.  Those kinds of problems have always worked themselves out, unlike the total govt control approach where once something gets enacted, no matter how bad it is, you can never undo it because someone important is making money off of it.

 

 

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34 minutes ago, motleyhoo said:

Libertarianism

 

Libertarianism seems childish to me, just the word itself.  You can't reduce our needs to one idea "being free" ... what does it mean?  And what does it mean to you?  Until you are dead you are bound in so many ways.  So it's a silly idea.

 

Life is more about using your bonds in order to achieve results > that is an adult intention.  Without bonds you don't have any material.  And the larger the scaffold of relations and institutions the more material you have to work with.  We should want culture and groupings of all sorts.

 

Say you are a blacksmith and wish to live by making those goods ... to whom will you sell them?  Your neighbours?  They don't really need that much.  In the old days traders would bring your goods to the Capital and sell them there and give you a share.  It's a market.  These days you stick it on Etsy.

How else ?  Would you really be satisfied making goods only for those in the village ?

 

In the end ... we live in a complex world.  We are tasked, and we either work or learn to work ... to use the material of our many constraints to grow.

Or we bum around until we die.

Or we complain until we die.

We are not ever going to be in a utopia on this planet.  Never.

 

As for Nature, if we want to return to the libertarian nature ... the last Blue Planet (one of those BBC nature docs) ... was incredibly violent it showed the cutlefish parasiting each other .. there is incredible barbarianism by the animals on this planet.   That should tell you a lot.   There was an event in Africa it's called "The Lions of Tsongo" (something like that) ... in Africa a railway bridge was being built over a stream in a valley and a team of several hundred workers were assembled.  At night two lionnesses preyed on them and ate a good few.  The first night I believe it was the strongest of the entire work team, out of hundreds of men ... the lion grabbed him by the legs and dragged him straight out of the tent and dragged him not 10m from the camp and began to eat him alive.
Of course he was screaming and fighting the whole time.

That is the paradise of Nature that we can all be free in.

 

Life is tough, you either attempt to make good what there is for you to do, in all your tasks and in all your days ... or you sit on the sofa - a modern option.  Or you complain, or you die.
Nobody said it was pretty.

 

Oh yeah, of course there is the spiritual path to help us too of course.

 

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You're confusing Libertarainism with Anarchy.  They're not the same.  This is what the news media has been doing for years, painting Libertarians and Constutionalists as whacky because they believe in anarchy when they know this is not the truth.  Just listen to David Icke - everything he's saying we should be is 90% Libertarian.  It does not mean a free for all and dog eat dog anarchy.  It means each individual being responsible for their own actions, taking responsibility for their own actions, and being accountable for their actions.  Every Libertarian rule is basically built upon the same 2 tenets - 1) Don't touch my stuff, and I won't touch your stuff, and 2) Do not take anyone else's stuff.

 

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1 hour ago, EnigmaticWorld said:

Lolbertarians mostly just seem like fence sitters to me.

 

You mistake fence sitting to not getting a voice.  We're banned from MSM and get censored form social media. 

 

Of course, your alternative is any one of the fascist philosophies we have today ruining the world for everyone in their promise to help a few, because there ain't a one of them that isn't a front for fascism. Maybe you need to watch a few of the C-SPAN interviews with Ron Paul, the father of modern Libertarians, because he sounds a lot like David Icke.  When I woke up, I discovered the two of them at the same time, because they are so much alike.

 

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Just now, motleyhoo said:

 

You mistake fence sitting to not getting a voice.  We're banned from MSM and get censored form social media. 

 

Of course, your alternative is any one of the fascist philosophies we have today ruining the world for everyone in their promise to help a few, because there ain't a one of them that isn't a front for fascism. Maybe you need to watch a few of the C-SPAN interviews with Ron Paul, the father of modern Libertarians, because he sounds a lot like David Icke.  When I woke up, I discovered the two of them at the same time, because they are so much alike.

 

 

I agree with individual liberty, but too many libertarian concepts seem rooted in individualism and that seems to be what got us in this mess. You can talk about the rights of the individual until the cows come home, but if others are forming collectives you're screwed.

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21 minutes ago, EnigmaticWorld said:

 

I agree with individual liberty, but too many libertarian concepts seem rooted in individualism and that seems to be what got us in this mess. You can talk about the rights of the individual until the cows come home, but if others are forming collectives you're screwed.

 

You think Individualism got us into this mess?  Because from where I am sitting all I see is pure fascist Collectivism taking over everything from libraries, to schools, to the MSM, the internet media companies, and politics.  Who do you think all these people are rioting and destroying and looting, you think they're Individualists?  I sure as hell would rather be an individual, with control over my own self determination and autonomy than an obedient and complaint drone following the orders and whims of a Socialist Collective telling me everything I can and cannot do, any day of the week.

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19 minutes ago, motleyhoo said:

 

You think Individualism got us into this mess?  Because from where I am sitting all I see is pure fascist Collectivism taking over everything from libraries, to schools, to the MSM, the internet media companies, and politics.  Who do you think all these people are rioting and destroying and looting, you think they're Individualists?  I sure as hell would rather be an individual, with control over my own self determination and autonomy than an obedient and complaint drone following the orders and whims of a Socialist Collective telling me everything I can and cannot do, any day of the week.

 

It got white folks in a mess for sure. When white people are told to be individuals, while everyone else pushes for the interests of their group, obviously that is going to have an effect on white people.

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1 hour ago, EnigmaticWorld said:

 

It got white folks in a mess for sure. When white people are told to be individuals, while everyone else pushes for the interests of their group, obviously that is going to have an effect on white people.

 

That's not at all what is happening.  Sigh.....

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1 hour ago, EnigmaticWorld said:

@motleyhoo

 

It's not that I don't hear what you're saying, I just think that everyone should be able to collectivize or nobody should, because right now it's totally unbalanced.

 

Collectivism will always be fascist, because any govt operating under that philosophy will force everyone at gunpoint who does not want to live like a lemming, and that number is always going to be significant.  That's called mob rule.  It's a world where 2 wolves and a sheep discuss what's for dinner.

 

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Here's the man, himself.  It's a long video, but the only way you could disagree with what he's saying is if you're the type who believes you should be able to force other people to bend to your will, which is a type of fascism.  You're entitled to your opinion, but I will ALWAYS fight fascism, because it's not my business telling someone else how to live their life as long as they are not physically harming others.

 

 

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3 minutes ago, motleyhoo said:

Here's the man, himself.  It's a long video, but the only way you could disagree with what he's saying is if you're the type who believes you should be able to force other people to bend to your will, which is a type of fascism.  You're entitled to your opinion, but I will ALWAYS fight fascism, because it's not my business telling someone else how to live their life as long as they are not physically harming others.

 

 

 

We're being guilted into bending to other peoples will right now. You're totally missing the point of what I am saying too. I already said I agree with individual liberty in principle, but I also think it's naive to assume it will work.

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4 minutes ago, EnigmaticWorld said:

 

So people aren't collectivizing in a group against white people? Are white people included in this POC group too then? What was Diane calling for here then?

 

 

 

she seems nice 

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@motleyhoo

 

This guy has the right idea in principle, but how do you convice all demographics to embrace individualism? I think we can agree that Libertarianism isn't wrong, it's just that it has become a meme to a lot of people at this point. I have agreed with much of what Ron Paul has said over the years, but there needs to be more like him.

 

 

 

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There appears to be a lot of  confusion regarding the terms Anarchy, Libertarianism, Voluntaryism, Anarcho-Capitalism, Laissez-Faire.

In principle they are so closely related they could be taken as the same thing.

Anarchy simply means without the rule of government (Authority) - & that is not to imply that we cannot live by rules that are formed out of principle/s!

Other factors weigh in such as the principle of self ownership. You own yourself!

And there is the non aggression principle. But that does not imply that you can not defend yourself against aggressors whether by implied threat  or actual physical threat of aggression, or form co-operatives or technology that can be used to defend the yourself or others.

It does not mean that people cannot co-ordinate and engage in the exchange of ideas (trade, commerce). 

It does not mean that people cannot form co-operatives, i.e. collectives that serve each individual who wish to engage without stripping them of their individual innate rights.

There will always be the danger of monopolisation and the anarchist/laissez-faire/libertarian/voluntaryist perspective prepares the awareness against such dangers!

It should be noted that it is not a Utopian ideal as no such thing exists!  Psychopaths, narcissists, and sociopaths will always exist yet some persist in pushing that implication. There will always be that innate internal struggle between the polemics of this existence, the light and dark of our psyche, the acceptance of it and expansion of our consciousness that results from that awareness.

It simply strips the veil of lies that we have been conditioned to accept  i.e. the myth or superstition of governance, authoritarianism

There will always be inequality - thats because we are ALL different, live in different conditions and subject to different forces and conditions - There will never be equality only the acceptance of our unique perspectives, experience and lessons.

We do not need to be limited to the cave.

 

 

 

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