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Opted out of Organ Donation Uk


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1 minute ago, Asmallperson said:

So what use are your organs when you are dead? does your spirit still need them to exist?

 

The point of organ donation is saving lives. People do get rich from it, but they do in so many ways. 

 

Its one thing to opt out because of some religious belief but I think saying no just because somebody might make cash out of it is bogus.

 

With me, it's both. And the fact that they are harvested from living beings makes it all the more disturbing.

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13 minutes ago, Tinfoil Hat said:

 

I find the attitude that it wouldn't matter what unanticipated agony another person suffered for your sake to be offensive.

If you were somebodies next of kin and you had to make the decision for them, accept or reject a donor organ, what would you do?

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12 minutes ago, Asmallperson said:

So what use are your organs when you are dead? does your spirit still need them to exist?

 

The point of organ donation is saving lives. People do get rich from it, but they do in so many ways. 

 

Its one thing to opt out because of some religious belief but I think saying no just because somebody might make cash out of it is bogus.

 

 It's not bogus when the people with the ability to do it are motivated to save someone else at the donor's expense by finances though, which will sometimes happen.

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13 minutes ago, Asmallperson said:

If you were somebodies next of kin and you had to make the decision for them, accept or reject a donor organ, what would you do?

 

It doesn't work that way though Asmallperson. People are normally on a waiting list already. When someone who's considered a suitable donor crops up (not dead, mark you, otherwise they would not be suitable to take organs from) the decision has already been made, and that's the scenario when I would be distrusting the medics, balancing one life against the other. So because I would not feel comfortable donating, I would be equally loathed to accept a donation on behalf of someone else if that makes sense.

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29 minutes ago, Tinfoil Hat said:

 

It doesn't work that way though Asmallperson. People are normally on a waiting list already. When someone who's considered a suitable donor crops up (not dead, mark you, otherwise they would not be suitable to take organs from) the decision has already been made, and that's the scenario when I would be distrusting the medics, balancing one life against the other. So because I would not feel comfortable donating, I would be equally loathed to accept a donation on behalf of someone else if that makes sense.

Are you talking about a living donor in the case? its not unusual for a person to give a kidney or piece of liver to a relative if they match.

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Organ Transplants

 

On the subject of death it seems relevant to say a few words about organ transplants. Today we are told to make "organ testaments" that allow doctors to take out our organs and transplant them into other bodies in case we die in an accident. As there is a shortage of organs a considerable amount of pressure is put on people to "donate" their organs. We are told that this is a loving thing to do as we can help save the life of a fellow being by donating our organs after our own death. But is this really a loving thing to do? Let us look at this aspect. 

 

First we should remember that life is eternal, so what can be "saved" is only somebody's temporary existence on the physical plane. And we should remember that life on the physical plane is an existence in the zone of suffering and darkness. When we donate our organs we help prolong the receiver's sojourn in this zone of darkness. We should remember that the alternative is paradise. I am not saying that we should not try to help where help is logical, but the question is if transplanting an organ from one being to another is logical. Indeed, the whole idea of organ transplants is the ultimate consequence of the Cartesian/Newtonian view of man as a machine whose individual parts can be exchanged when they no longer function in the same way that we can replace a worn ball bearing in a tractor.

 

When Martinus died in 1981 the practice of transplanting organs from one human to another was not yet widely used, and he does not mention the subject in The Third Testament, but at a meeting in the council of the Martinus Institute in 1971, Martinus said the following about the death criterion:

  1.  Man must die, when there are no longer any natural ways to keep him alive.
  2.  It is unfortunate for life in the spiritual world to keep a body alive beyond its possibilities to regain a fairly natural life condition.
  3.  The present practice of keeping for instance a completely brain damaged person alive is used exceedingly.
  4.  Some kind of authority has to be established to decide when life should no longer be maintained artificially.
  5.  Organ transplantation is an unnatural process and should not take place without the express consent of the person in question.

This is what Martinus has said. He does not condemn organ transplants nor does he recommend them. It is up to the individual person to decide and to take the karmic consequences of such a decision. Again we have free will, and as in all other choices we make there are consequences to face.

 

It is not a goal in itself to prolong life on the physical plane, but if a person strongly desires to receive an organ from another person’s body and this person agrees, then this possibility is there. Let us, however, look at the possible consequences of such a decision.

 

If we are born with say, a deficient liver, this illness has its roots in a former life and is a consequence of debauchery and a former life lived in excesses. In other words the liver disease is karma. Karma is a loving instruction from Providence about how to behave. We need the liver disease to learn how to treat our cells in the correct way. If we can “just” get another person’s liver instead of our own, we may not learn the lesson to the full.

 

In addition to this, we have to more or less kill our own immune system so that it does not reject the liver. One in 100 cells of our body belongs to the immune system. This again means that our immune system consists of billions of cells. Debilitating or even killing these cells is not only bad for our general health as we won’t be able to fight off even a common cold, but it will be bad for our health in future incarnations. In our next life we may be born with an immune deficiency disease. The medicine that we have to take to prevent our body from rejecting the transplanted organ is the same as starting chemical warfare in our body, and this has karmic consequences.

 

The whole idea of organ transplants is rooted in the belief that life exists only on the physical plane and that we have only one life. But as we certainly do not only live once, but eternally, it seems pointless to spend a lot of time and money to swap organs around trying to prolong one physical life for a few years. Seen in a cosmic perspective, the idea of organ transplant is illogical, as the transplantee harms his immune system, interferes with his karma (to the extent that this can be done), prolongs his stay in the zone of suffering, and postpones his reincarnation in a new body.

 

Source: Death is an Illusion - Else Byskov

 

Death Is an Illusion: A Logical Explanation Based on Martinus' Worldview by [Else Byskov]

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1 minute ago, Asmallperson said:

Are you talking about a living donor in the case? its not unusual for a person to give a kidney or piece of liver to a relative if they match.

 

I'm meaning a 3rd party. They are all living when the harvesting commences, as previously discussed. 

 

It would be different though if one my children needed an organ which I could donate - I'd go to hell for them. 

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7 minutes ago, Tinfoil Hat said:

 

I'm meaning a 3rd party. They are all living when the harvesting commences, as previously discussed. 

 

It would be different though if one my children needed an organ which I could donate - I'd go to hell for them. 

Its preferential for them to be brain dead though as the heart can still be pumping blood around. A living donor isnt really the same as somebody who is brain dead.

 

Thank you for answering that. I was curious if people who are against donating would do it if put in a difficult position. I suspect most would do it if it would save the life of somebody close to them.

 

There will always be ethical issues and grey areas where things go wrong but personally I think that if people get a chance for another shot at life then its good if they can take it.

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The reality of brain dead thing is what is in doubt though, as per the chap in one of Ink's links, who benefited from his dad distrusting the Dr's diagnosis and getting his own medics in, who revived the young man, and he went on to study accountancy. And the woman who came round to find her eyes had been harvested when she was supposedly brain dead. 

 

But, to your self be true. If it's an informed decision, it's yours to make. 

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Just opted out. I remember reading about 'beating heart cadavers' and imeadiately thought - no not for me. I thought, probably like everyone else, that you were actually dead when they took the organs I'm horrified to find out how they do it. Now the only decision is whether or not to be cremated or be buried and rot away. I've read cremation releases the spirit quicker.

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10 minutes ago, pi3141 said:

Just opted out. I remember reading about 'beating heart cadavers' and imeadiately thought - no not for me. I thought, probably like everyone else, that you were actually dead when they took the organs I'm horrified to find out how they do it. Now the only decision is whether or not to be cremated or be buried and rot away. I've read cremation releases the spirit quicker.

Yeah, I can't make up my mind either, both sound pretty shit 

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On 5/20/2020 at 9:41 PM, gil said:

why would you want to opt out from organ donation? just curious about the rationale. would appreciate it if you would care to elaborate a bit

Because we are ruled by a non human force! Fuck me, telling me you trust the NHS? You in the wrong forum pal. 

 

Basically I opted out because I don't want my organs farmed for consumption. 

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5 minutes ago, Yasmina said:

Yeah, I can't make up my mind either, both sound pretty shit 

I've made up my mind on the matter. What's really sh!tty though, is that where I live, this thing has been written in law for a decade, and there's no opt out form, nowhere to call, nowhere to send mail to do it. It's supposedly decided by the person's stance when living, but where do you find that, especially if the dead person has no relatives, no record for their stance, or if their relatives flat out don't know the person's stance? I can imagine some ghoulish, greedy doctors rubbing their hands together already...

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8 minutes ago, pi3141 said:

Now the only decision is whether or not to be cremated or be buried and rot away. I've read cremation releases the spirit quicker.

That's interesting. I haven't read that but something that I did read and made sense to me is the effect of burning the body. It is from the same book I posted earlier and is immediately before the section on organ transplants. 

 

(btw the "I" is the non physical part of us.)

 

The Dead Body


Once the “I” has left the body, the body becomes a corpse. The main electrical field, the one that made the body move and talk and laugh, etc., has departed and it is now the mortal frame that remains. This mortal frame has to be disposed of somehow, as it cannot go on lying around. But how is this best disposed of?

 

In our body there are billions of cells. These cells carry out a wide range of different jobs in our body, as we all know. We saw that under sleep, when the strong electrical field of the “I” had temporarily left the body, these cells were busy carrying out their various tasks. The cells were not dead or asleep. They were at work.
When at death the “I” has left the body, the majority of the cells in our body are still alive. Their living conditions now change, there is less to do and they will also eventually die, but they don’t die right away. Even three months after the death of the body there are still cells that are alive in the body.

 

The cells have served us well, so it is our duty to consider what is the best way to treat our cells after “we” have departed. There are billions of individuals there to consider, and it is our responsibility that they are treated in the best possible way. The best way is to give the cells time to die a natural death so that they can live their full normal life span. The best way is to let the body slowly dry out, for in this way the cells will have time to die a natural death. As the average life span of a cell is about three months, the cells can live on until their natural time of death and there is still enough liquid in the body to allow them to do this. In this way they have come to no major harm. The burial that is carried out in most of southern Europe, where the body is placed on a sort of shelf aboveground in an oblong box in a cemetery, is ideal. Here the body is exposed to the air and it will slowly dry out, thus allowing the cells to die a natural death.

 

The second best way is to be interred or buried in the ground. In this way the cells may also have time to die a natural death, but in the ground the body does not dry out so easily and there are more bacteria in the earth that can get in contact with the cells and attack them. Because of the humidity in the earth foreign bacteria have better living conditions and they may attack the cells and eat them. So this way is not as good as the one practiced in southern Europe.


The worst possible way of disposing of a dead body is cremation. During cremation the healthy cells that are still very much alive in the body are exposed to a horrible death. Imagine that we place the whole of the planet Earth in a wooden box. Then we place it on burning coals and let the whole thing go up in flames. Our cells experience the cremation of our body in exactly the same way as we would if the whole Earth burned. This is not only a very unkind way to treat our cells, but it is also bad for our karma. Cremation is a kind of torture for our cells, and this torture may become our own fate one day.

 

The fact that cremation is a widely practised way of disposing of the dead body again shows that at our present stage of development we are very little aware of the well-being of our microcosmos. We are ignorant about how our microcosmos experiences life, and we think that once the body is dead, there is no more life in it. But this is not so, the body is still teeming with life. And this life has to be respected just like all other life has to be respected. A life is a life. God makes no distinction between big and small. Size really doesn’t matter.

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46 minutes ago, JackJohnson said:

I've made up my mind on the matter. What's really sh!tty though, is that where I live, this thing has been written in law for a decade, and there's no opt out form, nowhere to call, nowhere to send mail to do it. It's supposedly decided by the person's stance when living, but where do you find that, especially if the dead person has no relatives, no record for their stance, or if their relatives flat out don't know the person's stance? I can imagine some ghoulish, greedy doctors rubbing their hands together already...

I wasn't referring to the organ donation, my mind was made up long ago to opt out. I was talking about being cremated or buried, both sound horrible lol. 

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41 minutes ago, CosmoGenesis said:

Buried ffs!

 

Do not cremate!!

 

At least look at it like this, you'll be good compost for the earth that sustained you.  

Alright, chill out. It's all good saying that but I have a massive fear of being buried alive etc and I hate bugs and even just thinking about being buried makes me feel like I'm suffocating. It makes sense to bury and your body can be taken back by the earth but at the same time both options suck. I wish I could be mummified instead. 

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1 minute ago, Yasmina said:

Alright, chill out. It's all good saying that but I have a massive fear of being buried alive etc and I hate bugs and even just thinking about being buried makes me feel like I'm suffocating. It makes sense to bury and your body can be taken back by the earth but at the same time both options suck. I wish I could be mummified instead. 

Okay

 

Think about being cremated instead, does that fill you full of peace? Lol

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4 minutes ago, Yasmina said:

Alright, chill out. It's all good saying that but I have a massive fear of being buried alive etc and I hate bugs and even just thinking about being buried makes me feel like I'm suffocating. It makes sense to bury and your body can be taken back by the earth but at the same time both options suck. I wish I could be mummified instead. 

 

That's understandable. The fear of being buried alive and burned alive is pretty equal for me personally. Maybe it's genetic memory or something as it turned out that I have an ancestor that was burned at the stake when my Grandfather researched our family tree.

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33 minutes ago, CosmoGenesis said:

Okay

 

Think about being cremated instead, does that fill you full of peace? Lol

Yeah, that's why I said both options suck but being cremated is over fairly quickly, whereas when you're buried you're there for a long time until all your body rots away and gets eaten by worms and bugs. 

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