Guest A-chan Posted May 20, 2020 Share Posted May 20, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, Asmallperson said: Cant see any reason to opt out of organ donation unless you think they are needed in the afterlife or you are a christian who thinks they are going to be physically resirrected, even though their bodies will have totally decayed. Think of organ donation as a gift of life to somebody else. What can be more noble? I believe life starts at conception; that is the gift and the start of a new experience. We are not told of all the reasons people "require" organs. They are not all as the media presents. George Best was a prime example. There is no guarantee of survival; organ rejection is a noted reaction. The anti organ rejection drugs are riddled with negative effects and many die early. Illness is preventable; detoxification of the body in many cases would remove the "need" for organ transplants. There are those born with "faulty" organs. These cases are due to toxicity that sadly negatively effect the developing child. There are numerous pharmaceutical drugs known to be teratogenic. Legalised body snatching will never be "noble". There is no informed consent, especially when the truth is suppressed. Edited May 20, 2020 by A-chan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gil Posted May 20, 2020 Share Posted May 20, 2020 59 minutes ago, ink said: I can go on and on .... but the forum currently dislikes what I am doing and that is to be expected right now .... for me the being which you are is connected to the form for 3 and one half days from death and you will feel everything. :( Appreciate your effort, bro, keep it up man. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chocomel Posted May 20, 2020 Share Posted May 20, 2020 (edited) Pay particular attention from 11'08. re: relationships by touch. Edited May 20, 2020 by chocomel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Asmallperson Posted May 21, 2020 Share Posted May 21, 2020 (edited) 9 hours ago, A-chan said: I believe life starts at conception; that is the gift and the start of a new experience. We are not told of all the reasons people "require" organs. They are not all as the media presents. George Best was a prime example. There is no guarantee of survival; organ rejection is a noted reaction. The anti organ rejection drugs are riddled with negative effects and many die early. Illness is preventable; detoxification of the body in many cases would remove the "need" for organ transplants. There are those born with "faulty" organs. These cases are due to toxicity that sadly negatively effect the developing child. There are numerous pharmaceutical drugs known to be teratogenic. Legalised body snatching will never be "noble". There is no informed consent, especially when the truth is suppressed. Its not body snatching if you give consent. Also, if its simply a matter of opting out its still not body snatching. So the medical science behind it is not perfect but few things are. Things can take time to improve and evolve. Doesnt mean people shouldnt strive. Edited May 21, 2020 by Asmallperson Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Asmallperson Posted May 21, 2020 Share Posted May 21, 2020 9 hours ago, A-chan said: If they wanted to see the reason, they would have read the very informative posts above. What tosh. The medical world wont accept things to do with spiritual concepts officially, so why are they going to leave a body for long enough for the organs to be useless to another person? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Asmallperson Posted May 21, 2020 Share Posted May 21, 2020 10 hours ago, ink said: "I found your article today very interesting," wrote Angie Romano. "I live just outside of Toledo, Ohio. One of my sisters is a surgical nurse. She told me several years ago she would never want any of her family members to be an organ donor after what she has seen. (We have a brother-in-law alive today because of a kidney transplant he received, so we totally understand the double-edged sword that this presents.) She said that the times when she had been in the surgery room during organ harvesting, she has seen patients in definite pain when the harvesting begins. She said you can see it on their faces and it is horrible. I don't know what the answer is, just that it is a difficult situation. My sister has since transferred to a different hospital where they do not do the same type of trauma level work as was done at the first hospital. It seems like it is a similar situation as hospice care. Another sister is a cardiac nurse. She explained to me how, even though morphine is given to relieve pain in a terminal patient, at some point the medical personnel know that the next dose of morphine will overwhelm the patient's respiratory system and they will die. But we give it to them anyway to keep them comfortable. Modern science is such a blessing, but it comes with so many new sets of moral issues." In other words: brain "death" is not always death. In fact, the bodies of brain-dead people -- known as "beating-heart cadavers" -- can heal wounds, fight infections, and respond to certain stimuli. Brain-dead pregnant women can gestate a baby. There have been at least twenty-two such documented cases. Healthy babies have been born to them (one pregnant woman was kept alive for 107 days to have her child). Most people don't realize that "dead" donors are frequently kept on a ventilator so the organs remain fresh. Their hearts are often defibrillated. Their kidneys are treated. They urinate. Fluids are administered to avoid incipient diabetes. It is a new obsession, frets Dr. Michael DeVita of the University of Pittsburgh's Medical Center: recycling the bodies of people who (in his chilling words) are only "pretty dead." This is very serious spiritual territory. ...And we need to remember one thing, stated by one of the greatest brain surgeons in history: all of the brain may be in the mind, but not all of the mind is in the brain. Look at what you are saying. The pregnant women was artificially kept alive. Its like a machine having to be manually operated because the automatic control is not functioning. Its not really living is it. Historically it has been shown that dead bodies can be made to move limbs and make facial expressions purely by use of electric current on nerves. Would you then argue that these people are alive? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JackJohnson Posted May 21, 2020 Share Posted May 21, 2020 7 minutes ago, Asmallperson said: What tosh. The medical world wont accept things to do with spiritual concepts officially, so why are they going to leave a body for long enough for the organs to be useless to another person? Doesn't matter. What they matter for is for the person the docs want on the operating table. Why are you shilling for the profits of the medical complex? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
serpentine Posted May 21, 2020 Share Posted May 21, 2020 5 minutes ago, Asmallperson said: Its not body snatching if you give consent. Also, if its simply a matter of opting out its still not body snatching. So the medical science behind it is not perfect but few things are. Things can take time to improve and evolve. Doesnt mean people shouldnt strive. Nor does it mean one should do something just because one can do something. Is there a shortage of human beings on the planet? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Asmallperson Posted May 21, 2020 Share Posted May 21, 2020 5 minutes ago, serpentine said: Nor does it mean one should do something just because one can do something. Is there a shortage of human beings on the planet? So are you saying people should be left to die because there are loads of humans? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Asmallperson Posted May 21, 2020 Share Posted May 21, 2020 7 minutes ago, JackJohnson said: Doesn't matter. What they matter for is for the person the docs want on the operating table. Why are you shilling for the profits of the medical complex? lol, thats a bit defensive. So are you saying people who need organ donations shouldnt get them because some rich shit make money out of it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
serpentine Posted May 21, 2020 Share Posted May 21, 2020 3 minutes ago, Asmallperson said: So are you saying people should be left to die because there are loads of humans? Hardly but in the very short span of time not much longer than that of a single human being we've gone from actually seeing some of the finer detail of the life process in a human to tinkering with it like we actually understood what we are doing or the future ramifications of what we are doing. That line of thought transfers nicely to what we do as a species to the environment and to other species. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Asmallperson Posted May 21, 2020 Share Posted May 21, 2020 2 minutes ago, serpentine said: Hardly but in the very short span of time not much longer than that of a single human being we've gone from actually seeing some of the finer detail of the life process in a human to tinkering with it like we actually understood what we are doing or the future ramifications of what we are doing. That line of thought transfers nicely to what we do as a species to the environment and to other species. I agree things should have solid ethical rules but the problem will be that not everybody agrees with what those ethics should be. Spiritual people will see things very differently to purely materialistic people. The easy thing at the moment for people who think that organ removal is a big issue is to opt out of it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tinfoil Hat Posted May 21, 2020 Share Posted May 21, 2020 2 minutes ago, Asmallperson said: I agree things should have solid ethical rules but the problem will be that not everybody agrees with what those ethics should be. Spiritual people will see things very differently to purely materialistic people. The easy thing at the moment for people who think that organ removal is a big issue is to opt out of it. One of the articles above states that there are those in the medical field who refuse to take part in organ harvesting due to what they have witnessed. So it's more than just spiritual, because that's based on what they have witnessed in the physical state. When you are conscious and medically paralysed but still able to experience pain on an operating table, listening to the surgeons discussing your dissection and unable to react, it's too late to realise that your generous intention was probably not such a good idea. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
serpentine Posted May 21, 2020 Share Posted May 21, 2020 21 minutes ago, Asmallperson said: I agree things should have solid ethical rules but the problem will be that not everybody agrees with what those ethics should be. Spiritual people will see things very differently to purely materialistic people. The easy thing at the moment for people who think that organ removal is a big issue is to opt out of it. The easist thing and the thing which makes money for the corporations and governments funding science is to harvest organ replacements rather than deal with the issue of why organs need replacing in the first place. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Asmallperson Posted May 21, 2020 Share Posted May 21, 2020 (edited) 23 minutes ago, Tinfoil Hat said: One of the articles above states that there are those in the medical field who refuse to take part in organ harvesting due to what they have witnessed. So it's more than just spiritual, because that's based on what they have witnessed in the physical state. When you are conscious and medically paralysed but still able to experience pain on an operating table, listening to the surgeons discussing your dissection and unable to react, it's too late to realise that your generous intention was probably not such a good idea. Just found this interesting article https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-38733131 Operations are risky by their very nature and even the anasthetic can kill you, which is why you have to consent to the risk before they operate on you, unless there is nobody to take responsibility for the decision and its an emergency. Edited May 21, 2020 by Asmallperson Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Asmallperson Posted May 21, 2020 Share Posted May 21, 2020 1 minute ago, serpentine said: The easist thing and the thing which makes money for the corporations and governments funding science is to harvest organ replacements rather than deal with the issue of why organs need replacing in the first place. Well that is a big factor. Some of the problems are due to peoples lifestyle choices, such as chronic alcoholism. Personally I think there are more factors than can be easily dealt with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
serpentine Posted May 21, 2020 Share Posted May 21, 2020 9 minutes ago, Asmallperson said: Well that is a big factor. Some of the problems are due to peoples lifestyle choices, such as chronic alcoholism. Personally I think there are more factors than can be easily dealt with. Education is the key of course which in turn educates people to understand that there are choices. Unfortunately much of what goes on in schools now is directly controlled by corporations and governments (The corporatoracy?). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Asmallperson Posted May 21, 2020 Share Posted May 21, 2020 8 minutes ago, serpentine said: Education is the key of course which in turn educates people to understand that there are choices. Unfortunately much of what goes on in schools now is directly controlled by corporations and governments (The corporatoracy?). There is also the fact that many people chose to ignore good health advice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kala Namak Posted May 21, 2020 Share Posted May 21, 2020 Just opted out myself...missus opted out about a month ago... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yasmina Posted May 21, 2020 Share Posted May 21, 2020 12 hours ago, ink said: I can go on and on .... but the forum currently dislikes what I am doing and that is to be expected right now .... for me the being which you are is connected to the form for 3 and one half days from death and you will feel everything. :( 3 and a half days? How comes? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yasmina Posted May 21, 2020 Share Posted May 21, 2020 Just now, Kala Namak said: Just opted out myself...missus opted out about a month ago... She would have to opt out again, as of yesterday everyone's been opted back in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kala Namak Posted May 21, 2020 Share Posted May 21, 2020 1 minute ago, Yasmina said: She would have to opt out again, as of yesterday everyone's been opted back in. Nah, I don't think so. Yesterday was just the last day that everybody was automatically opted out. Now the default is they're opted in, UNLESS they've already registered their decision to opt out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
serpentine Posted May 21, 2020 Share Posted May 21, 2020 5 minutes ago, Yasmina said: She would have to opt out again, as of yesterday everyone's been opted back in. Has someone hacked the NHS? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kala Namak Posted May 21, 2020 Share Posted May 21, 2020 1 minute ago, serpentine said: Has someone hacked the NHS? lol, yeah apparently it was that Kim Jong fella wot dun it. (according to the MSM), cos they hate our freedumbs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yasmina Posted May 21, 2020 Share Posted May 21, 2020 30 minutes ago, Kala Namak said: Nah, I don't think so. Yesterday was just the last day that everybody was automatically opted out. Now the default is they're opted in, UNLESS they've already registered their decision to opt out. I thought they already did that last year because I remember having to opt out already before. Weird. Perhaps I'm remembering wrong lol. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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