peter Posted November 7, 2022 Share Posted November 7, 2022 (edited) sounds good but a little more substance please, given the narrative with regards to the Apollo Mission it is safe to assume that it is an opinion and therefore if that is an opinion one could also assume that the others are nothing more than an opinion as well with no real evidence What web site did you get this off Edited November 7, 2022 by peter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zArk Posted November 7, 2022 Share Posted November 7, 2022 (edited) 4 hours ago, alexa said: Thanks @zArk isn't this what happens when the sun sets ? Yes and as far as i can gather there is a 'gap' between earth and sky at the apparent horizon which can measure a minimum of 30 degrees viewing angle for the Sun. It will be different for the fixed stars as they are higher in the sky. however Globe model says that the horizon is 0 degrees but the Sun / stars intersect with earth at a 3 mile ~ distance from the observer (6ft high eyes). The additional miles of earth, which is seen by the observer, is refracted light from around the spheroid and what they term the apparent horizon. This is why i say "measure it" but they know and we know when they attempt to measure a curve they will end up finding a as-near-as-dammit level earth (i see from FE core measurements of the Lake that there was a teeny tiny deviation from absolute level) With all the hooharr of the last few years it is impossible that an amateur helio stalwart hasnt attempted to measure the claimed curve. They have failed and kept their measurements private. In hundreds of years it is inconceivable that the Helio model professionals havent attempted measurement n.b i wonder how powerful a telescope would have to be to view the North Star from OZ. hmmm the helios would claim refraction anyway me thinks Edited November 7, 2022 by zArk 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bombadil Posted November 7, 2022 Share Posted November 7, 2022 22 minutes ago, zArk said: n.b i wonder how powerful a telescope would have to be to view the North Star from OZ. hmmm the helios would claim refraction anyway me thinks Serious question as a member not a mod. Has a telescope done this? I really love astronomy so would like to learn more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexa Posted November 7, 2022 Share Posted November 7, 2022 38 minutes ago, Bombadil said: Serious question as a member not a mod. Has a telescope done this? I really love astronomy so would like to learn more. I'm not sure, but I'm sure the LUCI telescope, owned by the Vatican could. https://www.mpe.mpg.de/ir/lucifer 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
webtrekker Posted November 7, 2022 Share Posted November 7, 2022 (edited) 1 hour ago, Bombadil said: Serious question as a member not a mod. Has a telescope done this? I really love astronomy so would like to learn more. Serious question as a member... Why has NO ONE yet answered my question regarding why Orion appears upside-down in the sky when viewed from Australia for MILLIONS of people? It DOESN'T WORK in the FE model therefore the FE model is WRONG! I'll keep asking this question until I get a plausible answer. Until then I'm afraid your FE model is dead in the water and any further discussion of it is pointless. Edited November 7, 2022 by webtrekker Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
webtrekker Posted November 7, 2022 Share Posted November 7, 2022 (edited) 1 hour ago, zArk said: n.b i wonder how powerful a telescope would have to be to view the North Star from OZ. hmmm the helios would claim refraction anyway me thinks Ok, I'll answer one of your question then you can answer thr one I've just asked above. We Helios are nothing but fair afte rall, right zArk? The answer is that you would need an X-RAY telescope to see THROUGH THE EARTH! Refraction doesn't even come into it! Now answer mine please. Edited November 7, 2022 by webtrekker Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
screamingeagle Posted November 7, 2022 Share Posted November 7, 2022 (edited) 12 minutes ago, webtrekker said: The answer is that you would need an X-RAY telescope to see THROUGH THE EARTH! Refraction doesn't even come into it Jan Lamparcht(spelling?) talked about reaserch that proved the earth is hollow i'll try to dig out the lecture i watched Edited November 7, 2022 by screamingeagle Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beaujangles Posted November 7, 2022 Share Posted November 7, 2022 3 hours ago, webtrekker said: Serious question as a member... Why has NO ONE yet answered my question regarding why Orion appears upside-down in the sky when viewed from Australia for MILLIONS of people? It DOESN'T WORK in the FE model therefore the FE model is WRONG! I'll keep asking this question until I get a plausible answer. Until then I'm afraid your FE model is dead in the water and any further discussion of it is pointless. IF the firmament is a dome wouldn't that explain it? As you know I'm no scientist so asking out of interest. Wouldn't vantage point and a domed roof so to speak make something look a different position? Like with the domed paintings of the Renaissance? Another wondering of mine...is... could a firmament be moving rather than a globe? Sorry if this sounds nutty but they're genuine questions from a non scientist. :-) This thread keeps bringing me back ... intriguing... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
webtrekker Posted November 7, 2022 Share Posted November 7, 2022 (edited) 1 hour ago, Beaujangles said: IF the firmament is a dome wouldn't that explain it? No, not really. Please bear with me ... The Flat Earthers do actually assume the firmament to be a dome, but their world is FLAT, meaning that all parts of said 'dome' are visible from all parts of the FLAT Earth. Since they regard the stars as being visible on that firmament, then there's no way (in their model) that say, Orion, could be both right-way-up, as viewed from a Northern country, and upside-down, as viewed from a Southern country AT THE SAME TIME! It's just not possible, yet is easily explained in the REAL WORLD GLOBE MODEL. This requires no scientific explanation, its just the way it is and always has been. Constellations (and the Moon too, for that matter,) that can be viewed from Northern and Southern laitudes always appear INVERTED in the night sky when viewed from these Southern latitudes. Good luck with anyone trying to refute that! Actual photo of Orion from Australia. Note that the orange Betelgeuse is in rhe BOTTOM RIGHT corner of the constellation and not the TOP LEFT corner as it would be seen from the UK (and from a Flat Earth! ) ... Edited November 7, 2022 by webtrekker Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexa Posted November 7, 2022 Share Posted November 7, 2022 For those who are interested in numerology. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
webtrekker Posted November 7, 2022 Share Posted November 7, 2022 (edited) 37 minutes ago, alexa said: For those who are interested in numerology. How about something for members interested in the TRUTH and not pseudo-scientific hocus pocus! If you and zArk aren't going to answer my question can you at least give me a reason why not? Edited November 7, 2022 by webtrekker Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zArk Posted November 7, 2022 Share Posted November 7, 2022 9 hours ago, Bombadil said: Serious question as a member not a mod. Has a telescope done this? I really love astronomy so would like to learn more. i cant find any mention of a big telescope being used in such a way but as they are at higher elevation, above the dense air, i cant see any reason why, with a nice long focal length, a Star teetering on the edge of the horizon cant be seen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zArk Posted November 7, 2022 Share Posted November 7, 2022 47 minutes ago, alexa said: For those who are interested in numerology. obviously a co-incidence. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zArk Posted November 7, 2022 Share Posted November 7, 2022 5 hours ago, Beaujangles said: IF the firmament is a dome wouldn't that explain it? As you know I'm no scientist so asking out of interest. Wouldn't vantage point and a domed roof so to speak make something look a different position? Like with the domed paintings of the Renaissance? Another wondering of mine...is... could a firmament be moving rather than a globe? Sorry if this sounds nutty but they're genuine questions from a non scientist. :-) This thread keeps bringing me back ... intriguing... stick a playing card on your ceiling and walk to each side of the room to see the different top and bottom of the card from the observer perspective heres Dave demonstrating the Sun on the earth 3 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sickofallthebollocks Posted November 7, 2022 Share Posted November 7, 2022 (edited) 34 minutes ago, zArk said: stick a playing card on your ceiling and walk to each side of the room to see the different top and bottom of the card from the observer perspective heres Dave demonstrating the Sun on the earth I was thinking the same thing - they see one side. we the other (from a flat earth perspective) There is no upside down when looking up at a star, but a simple way to look at it is what you said zark, or, 2 people sitting in a room at opposite ends of the room - looking up at a ceiling light - one person sees one side, the other person sees the opposite side. As per 'joy of sex man' illustrates below: Edited November 7, 2022 by sickofallthebollocks yeah 1 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bombadil Posted November 7, 2022 Share Posted November 7, 2022 1 hour ago, zArk said: i cant find any mention of a big telescope being used in such a way but as they are at higher elevation, above the dense air, i cant see any reason why, with a nice long focal length, a Star teetering on the edge of the horizon cant be seen. I was looking for an answer not a guess. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bombadil Posted November 7, 2022 Share Posted November 7, 2022 1 hour ago, zArk said: stick a playing card on your ceiling and walk to each side of the room to see the different top and bottom of the card from the observer perspective heres Dave demonstrating the Sun on the earth This video proves nothing. First thing the angles used to film this are deceiving. Secondly he is bouncing the string as he does so. A video of someone in a kitchen using a lightbulb with beer bottles to explain something does not work. THIS IS THE LAST VIDEO WHICH SHOWS NOTHING OF ANY VARIFIABLE EVIDENCE TO THE FLAT EARTH. ANY MEMBERS CONTINUING TO POST THIS TYPE OF FILM WILL BE PLACED ON MODERATION OF CONTENT. IF YOU CANNOT SHOW SOMETHING THAT CAN BE STUDIED SCIENTIFICALLY DONT BOTHER. ALSO, THIS IS AT LEAST THE SECOND TIME THIS DEBACLE HAS BEEN POSTED. NO MORE CLAIMING GOD DID IT. NO MORE CHILDISH RESPONSES. YOU ALL NEED TO GET BETTER AT POSTING. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bombadil Posted November 7, 2022 Share Posted November 7, 2022 1 hour ago, sickofallthebollocks said: they see one side. we the other (from a flat earth perspective) Then the would be back to front depending on what side you are on. Not upside down. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peter Posted November 7, 2022 Share Posted November 7, 2022 5 hours ago, alexa said: For those who are interested in numerology. this has been put up before and refuted ,but don't let that stop you 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peter Posted November 7, 2022 Share Posted November 7, 2022 3 hours ago, sickofallthebollocks said: I was thinking the same thing - they see one side. we the other (from a flat earth perspective) There is no upside down when looking up at a star, but a simple way to look at it is what you said zark, or, 2 people sitting in a room at opposite ends of the room - looking up at a ceiling light - one person sees one side, the other person sees the opposite side. As per 'joy of sex man' illustrates below: How come the letters for Orion are still the right way up, that might be what you see in a room but it is definitely not what you see with astronomical observations. If this is an explanation for webtrekker's question I find it amusing that you and zark would post something that obviously falls way short of the mark and therefore my only conclusion is that the simple question asked cannot be explained within the Fe parameters given actual observations . I can only assume that this is just one more nail amongst the myriad the others in the FE coffin 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peter Posted November 8, 2022 Share Posted November 8, 2022 (edited) 5 hours ago, zArk said: i cant find any mention of a big telescope being used in such a way but as they are at higher elevation, above the dense air, i cant see any reason why, with a nice long focal length, a Star teetering on the edge of the horizon cant be seen. You mentioned an horizon but the earth is flat so there shouldn't be one. Your model is a rotating sun and moon inside the ice wall over a flat earth (lovely green circle by the way)therefore the sun should never set but it does, since I proved this model to be false a while back I'm still waiting for a new explanation.Or should I go to the shed and grab a hand full of nails, It will just save me walking back and forth Edited November 8, 2022 by peter 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beaujangles Posted November 8, 2022 Share Posted November 8, 2022 (edited) We should all be able to deduce what we see as proof. We can all make up our own minds what we feel is worth believing and sift through anything that is not believable to us. Lets be fair people read bullshit every day in Newspapers and yet it continues. Basically discussions will always contain truth, bullshit or truth and bullshit. I personally dont give two shits if someone posts crap...so long as I take from it what interests me. So, yes I am still interested in both sides...whether each side has some bullshit is irrelevant - but I cherish the fact that I can make up my own mind about it and not be forced to believe or concede. There's always the scroll or block feature if anyone doesn't like the posts. Hopefully I see some further posts that brings a question with it....hence the point to a discussion. Edited November 8, 2022 by Beaujangles 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beaujangles Posted November 8, 2022 Share Posted November 8, 2022 15 minutes ago, peter said: You mentioned an horizon but the earth is flat so there shouldn't be one. Your model is a rotating sun and moon inside the ice wall over a flat earth therefore the sun should never set,but since I proved this to be false a while back I'm still waiting for a new model I think there would be an horizon on a flat earth. The further something is away the less clear and an horizon forms. Why would the sun never set on a flat earth? Do we know where it would go at all times? Do we know whether it does things we dont know about? Just playing Devil's advocate...but in reality can we always claim to 'know' when maybe we haven't see the proof? I know these questions must be irritating but lets be fair there are two schools of thought and each has merit... as a neutral onlooker I am looking for proof positive....still. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beaujangles Posted November 8, 2022 Share Posted November 8, 2022 3 hours ago, Bombadil said: Then the would be back to front depending on what side you are on. Not upside down. Thats assuming one knows the actual happenings of time and space so to speak. I guess for me it brings up a question of reflection...but all in all there are more questions than answers it seems. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beaujangles Posted November 8, 2022 Share Posted November 8, 2022 5 hours ago, zArk said: stick a playing card on your ceiling and walk to each side of the room to see the different top and bottom of the card from the observer perspective heres Dave demonstrating the Sun on the earth I have seen this before...although I see what youre trying to say, it is pretty basic...do you have any other videos that are helpful in this regard? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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