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The Flat Earth Thread: The reality of our physical plane (v2)


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1 hour ago, zArk said:

imo, peoples emotional conditions create the weather but this is something completely different to this this discussion thread

Yes it may be a different subject , however if peoples emotions create the weather visa vi lightning as you say, one would assume that the phenomena  actually didn't exist until homo sapiens came onto  the scene which I find rather hard to believe

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20 hours ago, alexa said:

@Carlos these meme's prove nothing, you'll have to come up with better than that ..........sorry to say!

 

No, we are fed up of explaining it........ you explain it, how these work on your globe.........

 

Point me to where you have explained it already. You must have done it a few times to get fed up. 

 

You are afraid to be wrong and that is just plain sad.

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20 hours ago, bflat said:

They have already moved on to dishonest memes. Take the win, lol.

 

Look at you people, you have ignored almost every post I've made and now doing the Gollum victory dance on your dung heap.

The sun does so many things all on its own that completely kicks your story to bits, yet all you do is avoid it all.

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18 hours ago, bflat said:

I chalk this whole thing up to indoctrination and  blind faith. I mean considering there is not one replicable experiment that can be done that shows water curving around a ball or sticking to outside of any spinning shape for that matter, what is left? Logical fallacies?

 

How incredibly dumb. The reason water curves around the globe is due to gravity. You know the thing that keeps you on the floor at 9.8 m per second per second. The thing that you have no explanation for.

 

Water to all intents and purposes is flat to the human eye, the curve is so small that it is barely noticeable. There is no experiment to replicate that size and force.

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16 hours ago, zArk said:

 

i tried to explain the solar eclipse with helio/sphere calculations and it doesnt work out...

.

time to face the facts that

a shadow of the moon doesnt travel faster than the moon yet the eclipse was observed across 14,000 km in 5 hours west to east

 

that .... doesnt .... work ..... for ... the globe model .....

 

its impossible... the model collapses

 

 

 

Thank you for your efforts in trying, it must have been very challenging for you to do something that comes naturally to most people.

 

So what did your inept search uncover about the Moon's speed? Here's one you might understand - fun facts for kids:

 

The moon orbits Earth at an average speed of 2,288 miles per hour (3,683 kilometres per hour).

 

So let's do some maths. What is 5 times 3,683? 

 

Now, be really good and admit your mistake.

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11 hours ago, alexa said:

 

The sun doesn't actually set it carries on going through what is called the 6 portals or Gates throughout the night. There are 12 portals in total in which the sun travels through in 24 hrs.

The sun goes down from the heaven and returns through the north in order to reach the east.

 

PS Edit Edit

It just seems like the sun is setting but in actual fact it is still traveling around.

 

Hahahahaha. No amount of scientific explanation can get through crazy. Why would anyone with such insane concepts of life be posting on a website?

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16 hours ago, zArk said:

 

why is the light source further from the land in the bottom image?

 

 

It's poking fun at the crazy. I'm guessing they didn't consider the madness about scale.

 

16 hours ago, zArk said:

i thought it was pretty much accepted by both sides that the light source is close in the bottom image ... way closer than the claimed 150 million miles for the represented top image

 

 

The concept of what we see is the same. Half the globe / surface is lit and it is a straight line across the terminator - night and day.

 

Could one of you flat earthers show me ANY light source on the planet that replicates this?

 

This is what it must do:

 

main-qimg-4bb95b0783f3aa2ebfac1c2ae7a0b1

 

And in the real world, THIS is what a light source actually does:

 

tenor.gif

 

16 hours ago, zArk said:

 

also you can see the light distortion at the apparent horizon right???

 

lightdistortion.jpg.8b3d5943667314bcec5758067cd43e7a.jpg

 

 

Certainly, if it travelling through the entire atmosphere. Why did you ignore the video?

 

 

 

 

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On 8/16/2020 at 7:52 PM, zArk said:

@Carlos nice video showing lens effect at apparent horizon visually lifting the sea level and boat leaving the boats further away to appear sunken behind a len effect crest of sea

 

This effect you refer to, show me any reference to where it is explained with meaningful light path diagrams.

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On 8/10/2020 at 9:43 PM, truegroup said:

 

Ridiculous.

 

I'm going to start with the most obvious of obvious things. Namely the observable action of the Sun. It sets it rises, it never changes size. That in itself is simply impossible on a flat Earth model. Basic trigonometry using the flat Earth model for the Sun distance makes a complete mockery of the model itself. Shall we look at it?

The actual verifiable angular diameter of the Sun viewed from anywhere on the planet, at any time of day and every day is 0.5 degrees. It varies very slightly by a small fraction, but that is what the human eye sees. It can be verified simply by viewing the Sun through clouds or a filter. The flat Earth model uses a quite ludicrous solar distance of 3,000 miles. It must do this as an inept attempt to explain day and night cycles(it fails miserably, but that is another story!).
Using trigonometry, try not to laugh here, 3,000 miles and 0.5 degrees makes the Sun diameter 26.2 miles. Now at any given point where the Sun goes directly overhead(near the equator), that would be the nearest distance to the Sun at zenith, but not as it lowers or rises. So let's examine the Sun at say 45 degrees to the observer. 3,000 miles to zenith and a 45 degree angle to actual puts the Sun now at a distance of 4,240 miles.

So, we have the Sun diameter at 26.2 miles and the distance is now 4,240 miles, it gives an angular diameter for the Sun at 0.35 degrees. Whoah there! A 45 degree elevation of the Sun returned a 30% reduction in its size compared to directly overhead. But folks, it gets way worse than that. Let's put the Sun down near the horizon at 15 degrees elevation(75 degrees off zenith). An angle of 75 degrees and 3000 miles to zenith puts the Sun at a distance of 11,600 miles.

Now, this is where the crap hits the air conditioning system. The Sun diameter of 26.2 miles and a distance of 11,600 miles gives the angular diameter at 0.129! That is very slightly more than a quarter of what we actually see at 0.5 degrees.

We're done already and that was just the first point! If you really want to kick the FE model whilst it's dead, how about the simple revelation that when the Sun is at 75 degrees from vertical it is 11,600 miles away! Standing on the equator in Singapore, the Sun still visible and not set yet, it sits 1000 miles short of zenith above the opposite side of the world! Even small children know it's the opposite on the other side of the world, ie. night time. If we move on to things like starfields rotating in opposite directions in Australia compared to the United Kingdom, there is no way for a flat Earth to explain this. Stars that are visible only in the Northern and Southern hemispheres exclusively. We also see the Lunar phases inverted in the Southern hemisphere. This has an "explanation" that is also quite ridiculous. It goes something like this: place a picture of the Moon on the ceiling, look at it from opposite sides of the room. Voila. Sadly, that is just nonsense. Here's a good way to show why: Imagine you are on a track that goes around the Earth at the same speed as the Moon on the same path it follows(on the FE model). Always you view the Moon just rising. At what point does it suddenly flip over! Another thing about the phases shows the sheer impossibility of the FE model. The Sun and Moon doing these great circles and one catching up the other. That's how they "explain" the phase changes. However, this creates a nasty and unavoidable problem. The Moon is visible at any one time across several thousands of miles of night sky. With a fixed position of Sun and Moon at any given time and a simultaneous visibility as stated, the crescent area of the Moon illuminated by the Sun, visible at opposite ends of this wide section, would be significantly different to each other. Clearly they are not!

Speaking of the Moon, over many decades, Radio hams have bounced radio waves off of the surface and timed the returns. Just from an approximation of the time taken, it puts the Moon at a quarter of a million miles away. Yet all humans see the Moon pass in front of the Sun during eclipses. The "explanation" is that the radio hams are all lying or mistaken. This broad-based claim runs quite frequently amongst the FE fraternity, who quite frighteningly claim that all space travel is also faked, including the highly visible International Space Station! Put those dark glasses on, don't look through your telescope, here it comes over the horizon. You have to laugh at the madness really. The mantra is repeated to encompass literally million of human beings as complicit in the space travel "hoax". In addition to the ISS, smaller satellites are visible, trackable and exactly where their orbital paths say they should be. Those pesky radio hams pick up all sorts of signals from the satellites as they lock on and track them across the skies. Tens of millions of dishes all across Europe and North Africa, aim at TV satellites in geostationary orbit. These provide highly directional signals that simply stop being picked up outside the span of the transmission. There have been some 8,000 space launches recorded, including probes throughout the solar system. The number of people to be fooled or involved is astronomical, considering data is being received in massive volumes on a daily basis. This includes weather satellites for every country and data coming down in gigabytes per hour!

Now one of the key issues the flat earth crowd complain about is not seeing the curve. If you use simple trigonometry and take a bog standard visual span of 90 degrees, at sea level head height, the human eye will simply be unable to detect the 4 hundredths of a degree of variance. At 1000 metres it's still a paltry 1 degree and by the time you get up to cruising altitude for a jet it has only mustered over 3 degrees. Just about visible. Going higher, at 100 kilometres it is still only 10 degrees variance. The Earth is very big, that is why we don't see much curvature. Here is a simple plot of the curvature :

 
Angles.jpg
 


As you can see, the actual visible angles at very high altitudes are quite small. Cameras with wider angle than the effective visibility of the human eye will exaggerate this curvature. In addition, due to the way the light path changes as it crosses over the centre of the lens, it can invert the visible curve. During the transition between the visible curve and the inversion, it flattens. The flatties tend to have kittens when they see this occurring and make lots of noise, but they always fail to mention that cameras on weather balloons, filming this very thing, always pick up the obvious partials of a spherical layer of a full Earth. On a flat Earth, that is simply impossible.

Second of the key issues is the complaint that we see things we shouldn't based on the curvature figures. Pretty much the standard reply to this whole thing is refraction of light as it passes through the atmosphere. There is also the effects of heat inversions that cause mirages and other variances. The most telling thing about this issue is that quite clearly, the bottom of these distant objects is missing. Numerous videos now reside on Youtube showing boats disappearing hull first, but rather than concentrate on that let's view Chicago from a variety of distances:
 

Chicago_2.jpg



The question is not why can we see more than we should, but where have the bottoms of the buildings gone! Over the curve of the horizon. Simple.
So far we have discussed just simple things that should stop this flat Earth nonsense from even being raised, but never let facts and evidence get in the way of a good conspiracy. A conspiracy of millions over thousands of years, when poor old Richard Nixon couldn't keep the Watergate scandal quiet and worse, Bill Clinton couldn't silence the oral habits of female interns!
Lunar eclipses. Another slam dunk of the FE theory. Quite simply put, the Earth moves between Sun and Moon and causes an eclipse. This is where the flatties get ridiculously amusing about what we are seeing, because clearly the flat Earth model has a major brain fart on this matter. Both Sun and Moon are visible in the sky! They claim some invisible object moves in front of the Sun's path to the Moon and blocks out most of the light. This is an object nobody on Earth can detect, even when it is doing the blocking! These lunar eclipses are predicted to the millisecond by astronomical data that goes back and forward as many years as is needed. Yet the flatties claim this is all made up because that isn't what we are seeing.

Night and day, a fairly easy to understand occurrence for us all, is another nail in this dead duck coffin. The Sun is claimed to be 3,000 miles away on a path that mathematics prove is gibberish, illuminating in a way that is not consistent with basic physics or reality. With very little effort, it can be proven that the Sun illuminates half the globe at any given time. With refraction, this incursion creates zones of twilight. From the FE model, we have this circular flat earth and a Sun doing some bizarre unexplained rotation around the equator. A quick diagram showing this:
 

TZY8XHTNv7ejo2_5njCYdUK3oNV7pqDo41YcWj-TSBPueo63P3sfv01P_RpkkVsbL9Jz_zj-ze3FCr2nYeOCMTuORXQdxj36EJbxp0I=s0-d
 


It doesn't take much thought to see the problem here. The circular area of illumination does not create a 50% illumination of the Earth. In fact the only way to get the correct illumination is from a light source that creates a magic straight line across a diameter of the flat Earth circle. Blatantly impossible. All this whilst the spotlight disappears/reappears over the edge of the horizon and doesn't change size whatsoever. Don't forget that the Moon also does this exact same thing with no size change. All in all, observational evidence that slaps the forehead of every flatnut!

Take a look at the FE model Earth from the picture above. The equator is provably 25,000 miles around. However the distance from the southern tip of South America all around to Tasmania is a circle that is double the distance of the equatorial circle. South America to Tasmania becomes 25,000 miles. Don't laugh. You can actually look at that idiotic map and show that only the pole to pole distances will match reality. The ones around in a circle most certainly do not.
Sadly I don't expect it to break through the hard shell of resistance routinely exhibited by flat Earth conspiracists, though hopefully it will stop those approaching the edge and about to fall off with the penguins! We haven't even touched on gravity, yet another thing denied by these barmy people, because there is no way it can work on a flat Earth. We also haven't discussed the mysterious forces that make the Sun and Moon magically revolve around the flat Earth in their thus proven impossible paths.

 

 

33 minutes ago, Carlos said:

 

Where is this post? Is it a flat earth post? That name doesn't show up in the search results.

 

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1 hour ago, Carlos said:

 

Thank you for your efforts in trying, it must have been very challenging for you to do something that comes naturally to most people.

 

So what did your inept search uncover about the Moon's speed? Here's one you might understand - fun facts for kids:

 

The moon orbits Earth at an average speed of 2,288 miles per hour (3,683 kilometres per hour).

 

So let's do some maths. What is 5 times 3,683? 

 

Now, be really good and admit your mistake.

 

you forgot globe theory ---- the earth is spinning also at north america at 1300km/h west to east

 

so whats that times 5 hrs and integrated into the moon shadow moving west to east

 

catch up @Carlos .... your head is spinning now aint it

 

then we can move onto the position of the moon after 3 hrs on its orbit between the sun and earth ... .doesnt look good

Edited by zArk
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56 minutes ago, Carlos said:

It's poking fun at the crazy. I'm guessing they didn't consider the madness about scale.

 

dont be shy ... they didnt consider  scale, distance, velocity for many things but rely upon concealment and big big blackboards

 

57 minutes ago, Carlos said:

And in the real world, THIS is what a light source actually does:

 

 

 

ta darrrrrrrrr -- hahahaha -- it even sorts out the seasons hahahahaha

 

 

dome2.jpg.a4adef7007fa549a6753df5bff2657da.jpg dome1.jpg.507ddebbd9760896cd1ea32fce46ae6f.jpg

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1 hour ago, zArk said:

dont be shy ... they didnt consider  scale, distance, velocity for many things but rely upon concealment and big big blackboards

 

 

ta darrrrrrrrr -- hahahaha -- it even sorts out the seasons hahahahaha

 

 

dome2.jpg.a4adef7007fa549a6753df5bff2657da.jpg dome1.jpg.507ddebbd9760896cd1ea32fce46ae6f.jpg

 

 

Ok, so the sun is just a big marble focusing light from another source? Is that what your claim is?

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6 minutes ago, Carlos said:

Ok, so the sun is just a big marble focusing light from another source? Is that what your claim is?

hahahahahaha

 

its demonstrated how day and night work plus how the seasons work ...

 

😄 gotta lub it

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1 hour ago, zArk said:

 

you forgot globe theory ---- the earth is spinning also at north america at 1300km/h west to east

 

so whats that times 5 hrs and integrated into the moon shadow moving west to east

 

catch up @Carlos .... your head is spinning now aint it

 

then we can move onto the position of the moon after 3 hrs on its orbit between the sun and earth ... .doesnt look good

 

 

You made a mistake dude and failed to admit it.

 

WxBcsrJCCnqYtpyh6fC7gb-650-80.jpg

 

The maths adds up. Maybe you can show us your computations?

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21 minutes ago, zArk said:

hahahahahaha

 

its demonstrated how day and night work plus how the seasons work ...

 

😄 gotta lub it

 

No, it demonstrates how a glass marble can refract light. I ask you the question again.

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80 pages. That's how big this thread has got. 80 pages of bickering and arguing.

 

I first came across 'Flat Earth' a couple of years ago, I watched a few videos, and read some interesting discussions elsewhere.

 

I was already reaching a stage where I was beginning to question a lot of things about what we have 'been taught' or told.

 

While I was open-minded enough to consider the possibility of the earth being 'flat', there were a lot of interesting theories being put forward, which I did my best to ponder over.

 

The conclusion I came to was that I was not convinced enough. For balance, I do not rule out the possibility that NASA has been lying and that the earth is not a globe and there is no space.

 

Having read some of David Icke's books (I believe he does not agree with 'flat earth' theory either), my viewpoint is that I really do not care whether the earth is a globe, a disc, or a tin of baked beans. The reality that I actually live in exists only as far as my own eyes can see. It makes no difference to me personally  if the planet I live on is a globe or a disc.

 

The sun still rises and sets, and we have the four seasons at the same time (near enough) every year.

 

What concerns me really though is how some people get so wrapped up in these 'small parts' of the overall 'conspiracy' that they fail to grasp the bigger picture.

 

Even here we see such 'obsessive' behaviour from 'flat-earth advocates' that in my opinion is borderline cult-like.

 

Arguing and bickering over 'flat earth' is just sucking in and distracting people from the real issues that are of most concern.

 

And this is why I personally believe that the whole 'flat earth' thing may have started out as an innocent and well meaning part of conspiracy research, but has been hijacked and infiltrated in order to subvert and tarnish the 'general' conspiracy and truth-seeking movement.

 

"Oh you think the Covid-19 pandemic is a hoax? I suppose you think the Queen is a lizard, and the earth is flat too!"

 

Well actually yes, no and no!

 

Science is absolutely open to question. We should not automatically assume however that "all science is wrong". Some science probably is wrong, but then equally there may be science that is somewhat correct.

 

And that's the thing with 'flat earth'. Yes, there is a lot that we have learned about space, the universe, electro-magnetism etc, but it is all based from an understanding that the earth is a globe. In order to fully accept and be able to explain the earth being a flat disc, we need to fully dismantle and 're-explain' everything that we know about reality, the planets, space and the universe. It's not simply enough to state "its all fake".

 

Anyway, I just wanted to say my piece, because I really don't want to expend any more of my own time or energy on this topic, you can all keep arguing and bickering all you like, if anyone steps out of line or starts breaking forum rules/guidelines, please use the Report function.

 

That is all, thanks.

 

 

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4 hours ago, zArk said:

BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM

That 's what happens when the pressure builds up to intolerable levels with no release valve

The boom we could all hear was probably your head because  (different members can insert their own conclusions here)

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  • Grumpy Owl changed the title to The Flat Earth Thread: The reality of our physical plane (v2)
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