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The Flat Earth Thread: The reality of our physical plane (v2)


bflat
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17 hours ago, bflat said:

It is EASILY explained by perspective and atmosheric conditions, light polution, etc..

 

It is actually you who should explain not to me, but to yourself, why we see this same perfect sky regardless of solstice... SUMMER OR WINTER... WHEN WE ARE TOLD WE ARE ON COMPLETELY OPPOSITE SIDES OF THE SUN!

 

What are you talking about?  I'm an amateur astronomer and astro-photographer.  The sky is always changing.  Saturn is not even at the same angle it was at 10 years ago.  And the stars I use to align my telescopes, I have to pick new ones every so often because the ones I was using have moved off the horizon from where they were the same time before.

 

If the earth was flat, then basically NONE of the mathematics underlying all of Astrophysics would work. Angular Momentum would not even exist.  Math does not lie.  People do, but math never does.

 

How in the hell do you explain the Coriolis Effect when you launch an object straight up into the sky, and how it's the opposite between the Northern and Southern hemispheres?

 

 

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37 minutes ago, motleyhoo said:

What are you talking about?  I'm an amateur astronomer and astro-photographer.  The sky is always changing.

Yes, the wheel in the sky keeps on turning. They wrote a song about it. This is how we see the big dipper from the "north pole" in our different seasons:

d6aaf-bigdipperstarsconstellationcosmoss

 

And this is how we have seen the stars since we first looked up:

maxresdefault.jpg

 

And this is how we have seen the wandering stars or what you call "planets:"

l7lg1rlkf5z21.jpg

 

Always perfect!

 

So of course the sky changes. We have seen the sky change exactly this was throughout time.

 

This of course is impossible if we were truly doing anything close to this:

ezgif_com_resize_2.gif

 

 

 

 

Edited by bflat
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24 minutes ago, motleyhoo said:

If the earth was flat, then basically NONE of the mathematics underlying all of Astrophysics would work. Angular Momentum would not even exist.  Math does not lie.  People do, but math never does.

Have you even looked at Einstein's field equations? Do you believe that spacetime exists? Do you believe in dark matter and dark energy? Are you comfortable with all of the outright assumptions that must be contained in this so called math? Are you comfortable with how these concepts are used to fill voids where the math completely breaks down? Are you comfortable with all of the outright assumptions that must be contained in this so called math?

 

As one of the freemasons' heliocentric priests explains:

"In cosmology we are off by a factor of 10 to the 120th... that's a one with 120 zeroes after it. This is the largest mismatch between theory and experiment in the history of science!"

--Michio Kaku

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32 minutes ago, motleyhoo said:

How in the hell do you explain the Coriolis Effect when you launch an object straight up into the sky, and how it's the opposite between the Northern and Southern hemispheres?

I don't have to because the question is based on false assumptions. If you can prove me wrong, go for it. Please video the experiment and post it here when you are done.

Thanks.

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1 minute ago, bflat said:

I don't have to because the question is based on false assumptions. If you can prove me wrong, go for it. Please video the experiment and post it here when you are done.

Thanks.

 

There is no assumption. Flush a toilet in the Northern hem. and the water will spiral counter-clockwise.  Do it in the Southern hem. and it will swirl clockwise.  Shoot an object straight up and it will always appear to veer off toward the East, same as the clouds and the jet stream always move East.

 

Here is a question for you.  How many people on the flat planet Earth are at this very moment standing directly on the very edge of the disk that is the flat Earth, and why in all of human history has no one ever met another person who has done this?  If just one person walked to the very edge and took a picture of what that looked like, that would be proof.  Strange diagrams of convoluted circular logic is not proof of anything except that some people have way too much time on their hands.

 

You still have not answered how it is I can sail a ship clockwise around and around the Earth without ever running into or off the edge of the planet. 

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2 minutes ago, motleyhoo said:

There is no assumption. Flush a toilet in the Northern hem. and the water will spiral counter-clockwise.  Do it in the Southern hem. and it will swirl clockwise. 

Before I take another second to respond to you, will you please just google this belief of yours to see if it holds water?

 

Thanks

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7 minutes ago, bflat said:

Before I take another second to respond to you, will you please just google this belief of yours to see if it holds water?

 

Thanks

 

The belief is proven by the opposing directions cyclones spin in the two opposing hemispheres.  Let me see what flat Earth theory you come up with to explain that.

 

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1 minute ago, motleyhoo said:

 

The belief is proven by the opposing directions cyclones spin in the two opposing hemispheres.  Let me see what flat Earth theory you come up with to explain that.

 

I guess you googled it and learned your assumption was incorrect, fair?

 

Look, our schools suck... bottom line. This is no attack on you. Many believe these same things because of how badly our schools suck. Then, like you, they go through life parroting these incorrect assumptions while feeling superior and knowledgeable. This must change.

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1 hour ago, bflat said:

Yes, the wheel in the sky keeps on turning. They wrote a song about it.

Was it this song bflat ? One of my favorites :classic_smile:

 

Windmills of Your Mind

Noel Harrison

 

Round like a circle in a spiral, like a wheel within a wheel
Never ending or beginning on an ever spinning reel
Like a snowball down a mountain, or a carnival balloon
Like a carousel that's turning running rings around the moon
Like a clock whose hands are sweeping past the minutes of its face
And the world is like an apple whirling silently in space
Like the circles that you find in the windmills of your mind!
Like a tunnel that you follow to a tunnel of its own
Down a hollow to a cavern where the sun has never shone
Like a door that keeps revolving in a half forgotten dream
Or the ripples from a pebble someone tosses in a stream
Like a clock whose hands are sweeping past the minutes of its face
And the world is like an apple whirling silently in space
Like the circles that you find in the windmills of your mind!
Keys that jingle in your pocket, words that jangle in your head
Why did summer go so quickly, was it something that you said?
Lovers walking along a shore and leave their footprints in the sand
Is the sound of distant drumming just the fingers of your hand?
Pictures hanging in a hallway and the fragment of a song
Half remembered names and faces, but to whom do they belong?
When you knew that it was over you were suddenly aware
That the autumn leaves were turning to the color of her hair!
Like a circle in a spiral, like a wheel within a wheel
Never ending or beginning on an ever spinning reel
As the images unwind, like the circles that you find
In the windmills of your mind!

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57 minutes ago, alexa said:

Was it this song bflat ? One of my favorites :classic_smile:

 

Windmills of Your Mind

Noel Harrison

 

Round like a circle in a spiral, like a wheel within a wheel
Never ending or beginning on an ever spinning reel
Like a snowball down a mountain, or a carnival balloon
Like a carousel that's turning running rings around the moon
Like a clock whose hands are sweeping past the minutes of its face
And the world is like an apple whirling silently in space
Like the circles that you find in the windmills of your mind!
Like a tunnel that you follow to a tunnel of its own
Down a hollow to a cavern where the sun has never shone
Like a door that keeps revolving in a half forgotten dream
Or the ripples from a pebble someone tosses in a stream
Like a clock whose hands are sweeping past the minutes of its face
And the world is like an apple whirling silently in space
Like the circles that you find in the windmills of your mind!
Keys that jingle in your pocket, words that jangle in your head
Why did summer go so quickly, was it something that you said?
Lovers walking along a shore and leave their footprints in the sand
Is the sound of distant drumming just the fingers of your hand?
Pictures hanging in a hallway and the fragment of a song
Half remembered names and faces, but to whom do they belong?
When you knew that it was over you were suddenly aware
That the autumn leaves were turning to the color of her hair!
Like a circle in a spiral, like a wheel within a wheel
Never ending or beginning on an ever spinning reel
As the images unwind, like the circles that you find
In the windmills of your mind!

LOL! That was weird. I was thinking of:

 

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@motleyhoo

 

Should I note your concession? Need I continue?

Look, you cam e on here as an " amateur astronomer and astro-photographer ," right? You went on to claim " Math does not lie.  People do, but math never does."

 

Please end this for us. Modern astronomy holds and must hold that at the Summer solstice and at the winter solstice we will see Polaris directly over the north pole (forget the idiotic procession thing for this as it is irrelevant). The theory also must hold that we are looking up at a completely different night sky, literally and not only on the other side of the Sun, but looking at a night sky in the complete opposite direction.

 

1024px-Seasons1.svg.png

The theory of heliocentrism also demands that we are doing something close to this:

ezgif_com_resize_2.gif

 

And that the stars remain fixed relative to the earth's supposed journey around the Sun. I hope we agree so far.

 

So again, how is Polaris there the next day, let alone summer, fall, winter, spring and year after decade after century after millennium?

 

For right now though, just explain for us how we can see her at both solstices.

 

Thanks

 

 

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On 5/27/2020 at 2:32 AM, Avoiceinthecrowd said:

The Suez Canal connecting the Mediterranean with the Red Sea is 100 miles long without any locks making the water an uninterrupted continuation of the two seas.

 

When constructed, the earth's supposed curvature was not taken into account, it was dug along a horizontal datum line 26 feet below sea level, passing through several lakes from one sea to the other, with the datum line and water's surface running perfectly parallel over the 100 miles.

I must commend you again for the job you've done here; the sheer amount of posts that the truest believers of spinning balls have simply ignored is impressive. I wanted to just comment on this post here as it touches directly on the OP.

imp1imsibys31.jpg?width=640&crop=smart&a

 

For ANYONE who does not understand the implications of the above meme, please just ask. I mean it. This is extremely important if you are honestly here, looking for truth.

 

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(Warning! plot spoilers)
Mark Sargeant's "Under the Dome, Edge of the Firmament"
Shell Beach segment
Transcribed from video
Images mine.

 

Snip-it_1591009343337.jpg.903c38116d94511ed0cd46d8460868f0.jpg

Lets look at something small, take an ordinary mouse and put it into a glass cage. It doesn't have to be a mouse, could be a snake, a lizard, insect, it makes little difference for this exercise.

People identify with mice because they're used to seeing them in lab experiments. Mice also don't have any sinister cannotations. They're seen as relatively innocent and benign. The perfect test subject as it were. I have yet to meet anyone who has a bias against the lab mouse.

So the mouse goes into the box for the first time and the reaction is always the same, it explores it's surroundings. More importantly tests the barrier around it. Probing for exits or potential exits.

 

Snip-it_1591009424678.jpg.502b3fa0de38a84ae7d855880992eefd.jpg

The mouse inspects every inch of its new glass home and at some point settles into the acceptance that the walls are indeed solid and it may be there for a while.

 

Every so often it will repeat the process. Again checking the boundries of the cage just in case something has changed. What it doesn't do is act as it would in the wild because it realizes that it's in a form of captivity.

The glass box doesn't even remotely resemble it's natural environment. You could put this box in the middle of the forest and the mouse might feel slightly better about it's situation but it still knows that it's been trapped against it's will then will settle into a non native lifestyle.

You could take all the other small animals that could be substituted for a mouse, the snake, the lizard, the insect, it makes no difference, the result will invariably be the same, repeated probing for escape routes, then acceptance.

Take the same animal and now put it into the middle of a hundred mile square wildlife preserve surrounded on all sides by a similar type of glass enclosure. The creature doesn't even bother to rush the sides of the preserve and start testing the boundries mostly because its out of visual range.

 

It could be days or even weeks before it even encounters a single fence. The animal's routine is spent doing what it normally would do, it eats, it sleeps, it breeds. It does everything that it would naturally do in the wild.

If one day the animal approaches the fence there might be some curiosity but any anxiety is quickly resolved by just turning around and heading back into the vast expanse from which it came.

The fence does not pose a potential problem for the animals in the preserve because it is so small compared to the expanse they live in and dwelling on that does not hold any interest.

We're assuming here that the fence is high enough to discourage flying creatures as well, deep enough to stop burrowing classes, and if you want, reaches the floor of any nearby body of water, stopping any clever aquatic types.

The point here is that all creatures great and small inside a giant wildlife preserve encountering the fence wouldn't care. They would all in their own way just shrug and move on with their lives.

 

However, if you take a human, male or female, regardless of education, of nurturing and put them in the exact same wildlife sanctuary the response would be quite different. When the human approaches the glass fence, they don't see it as a minor distraction. They pause, they wonder. More importantly they ask questions either internally or among others.

Why is the fence here? How far does it reach? Can I dig underneath, or climb over, or go around it? These questions continue in a way you might imagine.

 

Snip-it_1591009518491.jpg.65c743eb49d4b4aba25c98873ce14fd4.jpg

But, eventually a bigger question jumps to the top of the list, who built the fence? It is that which changes not only the type of questions being asked but how the human being or beings look at their world.

The giant wildlife preserve suddenly gets smaller. Each new fence border discovered starts to artificially constrict their expanse even though the dimensions haven't changed.

Before long the preserve, their home, loses some of it's relevance. The fence is a reminder of the unknown. Continued next post.

Edited by Avoiceinthecrowd
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It provokes fear and endless speculation within the human. Given enough time the importance of the preserve continues to be reduced. Especially in relation to the fence. And the reason why its so engrossing for the human is simple, its there, its real, they can see it, and maybe even touch it.

Adding more humans to the equation increases the disparity of the situation by orders of magnitude. Have you seen the fence? Do you know how long its been there? Have you ever known anyone thats been outside it?

Its older than us. Who is responsible for the fence? What can we do to appease the group that created it?

You can see where this might lead to.

A longlasting group hysteria would entrench itself within the population, grab hold and never let go. The fence is bigger, older, and wiser than they are. It humbles them, it angers them and it is forever. It is their proof of a higher power.

 

Maybe not god but certainly god-like. No civilization regardless of technology, discipline, or age would be able to cope with the existance of it.

For the human psyche there are just too many questions that go unanswered. Life would never be able to progress normally.

To summarize: a garden variety wildlife preserve would work for 99.9% of all the world's life forms. For human beings, however, you would need to make some modifications or really just one big one.

So lets take a look at a few examples of how this could be accomplished and from there expand it.

The first failed example can be seen in the 1998 movie Dark City. This is a good starting point to get you in the right mindset.

 

Snip-it_1591009756229.jpg.5b8513ca774bc1e866a8a0a41e2ee413.jpg

The premise here is that an advanced race creates a small flat earth area complete with a traditional dome. The design, however, is initially flawed in that they built the city all the way to the outer edge leaving no room for error.

To compensate for this they altered the memories of the human population on a regular basis therefore repressing any longterm investigations.

 

However, in movies there are always anomalies like the police officer who realizes that even though he remembers visiting a place called Shell Beach, there is no way to reach it because Shell Beach is outside of the flat world and never existed.

He just keeps going around the circular city that has no exits. In the end, another man, the hero of the movie, makes it to the edge, steals the advanced race's power, and creates an ocean which really should have been there in the first place.

Move from there to a movie released only 4 months later called The Truman Show.

 

Snip-it_1591009594012.jpg.7a447c08052ee1622eac615874227002.jpg

Inevitably, all flat earthers have to take a hard look at this movie from a technical point of view.

The movie follows the same lines as Dark City but in a much more relatable premise, that of a giant television stage built so that the outside world can watch a person go through his life without any knowledge that he is living inside a flat world surrounded by a physical dome.

 

The movie is interesting on so many levels including construction. Using their existing model of a small town bordered on one side by a large lagoon and wilderness and on the other a seemingly expansive ocean.

While better than Dark City it still had it's flaws. For one, it was less than 20 miles across and even though Truman's desire to explore was repressed there was still a chance that he would venture to the outer edge which is where the movie ended. But for the most part it worked.

Truman believed the entire scenario because he was born into it. And then lived 30 plus years without any reason to doubt where he was. Which could be said for any of us.

If it wasn't for the, and we'll say, "movie mistakes", that the studio fell victim to, then the show would have never ended. And this then raises hypothetical scenarios like how many kids like Truman could you have raised inside that dome. 10..50?

Now, logistically you can see how it might be problematic in keeping tabs on that many kids especially as they get older. Continued next post.

Edited by Avoiceinthecrowd
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But with enough slight of hand it could be possible. A fictional situation just like that was made in the 2004 movie The Village. And even though it turned into one of those M. Night Shyamalan plot twistings, the premise was very feasible.

 

Snip-it_1591009726253.jpg.4007c078161441660d5f3eba3933169f.jpg

A wealthy group of idealists buy a large parcel of land in an existing wildlife preserve, create a small town from the 1800s and raise children there.

They pay off government officials to keep planes far away and spread a myth that monsters live in the forest. As far as the kids are concerned they are actually living in a small Pennsylvania town in the 1800s. And being born into it why wouldn't they?

Eventually the elders that founded the town would all pass away leaving the children to pass on the legacy free from any burden of guilt that their world was not what it appeared to be.

 

And keeping in mind this was done with very little land manipulation and no dome. This then circles back to how many actors the fictional Truman Show really needed to hire.

Other than the leads who did product placement the rest of the town could actually just live their lives like everyone else. Use phone lines to call outside, go to restaurants, watch televion at home and so on. But again I digress.

Assuming the technology was possible how many people like Truman could you keep in a dome the size of, say, a state that was hundreds of miles across? Probably thousands.

If you kept expanding the size of the dome to few thousand miles, well, then you are talking millions. But when it gets that big something interesting happens, you don't need actors anymore.

Start it up like The Village within just a few generations everyone is oblivious and you can leave them to their own devices.

Starting to sound familiar?

 

In fact, the larger you make the enclosed world the less micro-managing needs to be done. It gets easier as it scales up.

This brings us back to the missing modification you need for the human race. To keep the storylines consistant and remove all the hokus-pokus of monsters in the woods or that you can't get to Shell Beach. You place in gradual negative reinforcement. One that creates an illusion of choice.

Say for example that Truman went out in the sailboat the same as before but this time the dome was twice the size and the simulated ocean far larger.

How far would he travel before getting hungry, thirsty, or tired? The movie ending is then in doubt. And if you compare this scenario where where you are now then you start to see it.

Look at the flat earth map again, continents grouped in the center, surrounded in all directions by hundreds of miles of salt water. Think about how much further ancient ships would have travelled if you could drink what you are sailing on?

 

As you move closer to the edge the temperature starts taking a nosedive. Then you start seeing icebergs.

 

Snip-it_1591009814579.jpg.86342a68bf55032610aad0e8b8a88059.jpg

 

If that doesn't stop you, then, you run into what we call Antartica which is a steep climb 2 miles up with no plant life or indiginous livestock animals.

And if you had the where-with-all to make it that far you would still have hundreds of miles of endless ice and snow. Its easy to see why so few people have gone the distance.

Compare this to the upper ceiling which is much easier to maintain. You simply decrease the oxygen rates so that every thousand feet up it gets more difficult to breathe. This slows down exploration over mountain ranges and discourages limited control flight such as balloons.

Also keep in mind that the dome itself doesn't have to be that high in relation to the outer ring. With commercial aircraft capping out at 10 miles and rockets less than 400, the dome would actually look more like a stadium roof dependng on how you wanted to display the sun, moon, and stars.

An enclosed world with these types of safeguards would be able to sustain an unknowing population for say, what, 4500 years? Then you could artificially introduce a globe model into the scientific community before the civilization technology reaches a point that could lead to discovery. And 500 years later here we are.

A civilization inside an amazing structure doing what we would naturally do. While the authority stands by the gate and fears the consequences if we ever found out for ourselves. End of transcript.

 

Snip-it_1591010358122.jpg.45e23f4bf9f0073778d02a612a9acba2.jpg

Edited by Avoiceinthecrowd
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11 hours ago, motleyhoo said:

 

The belief is proven by the opposing directions cyclones spin in the two opposing hemispheres.  Let me see what flat Earth theory you come up with to explain that.

 

 

Pump harder!!

 

Snip-it_1591010386971.jpg.e86e36dae8f00102433a5ff2f59e38c5.jpg

 

I think the darn thing has a 14 million square kilometer hole in the bottom ?

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