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The Flat Earth Thread: The reality of our physical plane (v2)


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4 hours ago, gregory-peccary said:

So if the firmament is heaven, and the flat earth we live on is in the waters under the firmament ... we are living underwater!

 

4 hours ago, alexa said:

Not exactly, there is the firmament between us and the waters above which holds the waters back from drowning us all.

 

16 hours ago, alexa said:

7 And God made the firmament, and divided the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament: and it was so.

sounds like its all water above and below, its almost as if the passage is allegorical 🙄

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The “Nature of Reality” forum was recently hosting a thread where heated discussion was taking place regarding our plane, “a flat, nonrotating Earth” as nasa themselves reference multiple times in mul

I dont think that flat earth is a thing. But either way - why does the shape of the world matter? If its a flat sphere or a globe - there is no difference for us in our daily lifes, is it?

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The earth is flatter than the flattest pancake in Flat Town, Flatsville.

And it was known a long time ago by people who KNEW.

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[FLAT EARTH: Our Spherical Vision and the Counterfeit Globe!]

 

One surveyor, Mr. T. Westwood, wrote into the January, 1896 “Earth Review” magazine, “In levelling, I work from Ordinance marks, or canal levels, to get the height above sea level. The puzzle to me used to be, that over several miles each level was and is treated throughout its whole length as the same level from end to end; not the least allowance being made for curvature. One of the civil engineers in this district, after some amount of argument on each side as to the reason why no allowance for curvature was made, said he did not believe anybody would know the shape of the earth in this life.”

Another Surveyor and Engineer of thirty years wrote to the Birmingham Weekly Mercury, Feb. 15th, 1890, “I am thoroughly acquainted with the theory and practice of civil engineering. However bigoted some of our professors may be in the theory of surveying according to the prescribed rules, yet it is well known amongst us that such theoretical measurements are INCAPABLE OF ANY PRACTICAL ILLUSTRATION. All our locomotives are designed to run on what may be regarded as TRUE LEVELS or FLATS. There are, of course, partial inclines or gradients here and there, but they are always accurately defined and must be carefully traversed. But anything approaching to eight inches in the mile, increasing as the square of the distance, COULD NOT BE WORKED BY ANY ENGINE THAT WAS EVER YET CONSTRUCTED.

Taking one station with another all over England and Scotland, it may be stated that all the platforms are ON THE SAME RELATIVE LEVEL. The distance between Eastern and Western coasts of England may be set down as 300 miles. If the prescribed curvature was indeed as represented, the central stations at Rugby or Warwick ought to be close upon three miles higher than a chord drawn from the two extremities. If such was the case there is not a driver or stoker within the Kingdom that would be found to take charge of the train. We can only laugh at those of your readers who seriously give us credit for such venturesome exploits, as running trains round spherical curves. Horizontal curves on levels are dangerous enough, vertical curves would be a thousand times worse, and with our rolling stock constructed as at present physically impossible.”

Engineer, W. Winckler, wrote into the Earth Review October 1893 regarding the Earth’s supposed curvature, “As an engineer of many years standing, I saw that this absurd allowance is only permitted in school books. No engineer would dream of allowing anything of the kind. I have projected many miles of railways and many more of canals and the allowance has not even been thought of, much less allowed for. This allowance for curvature means this - that it is 8” for the first mile of a canal, and increasing at the ratio by the square of the distance in miles; thus a small navigable canal for boats, say 30 miles long, will have, by the above rule an allowance for curvature of 600 feet. Think of that and then please credit engineers as not being quite such fools. Nothing of the sort is allowed. We no more think of allowing 600 feet for a line of 30 miles of railway or canal, than of wasting our time trying to square the circle.”

The Suez Canal which connects the Mediterranean Sea with the Gulf of Suez on the Red Sea is a clear proof of the Earth’s and water’s non-convexity. The canal is 100 miles long and without any locks, so the water within is an uninterrupted continuation of the Mediterranean Sea to the Red Sea. When it was constructed, the Earth’s supposed curvature was not taken into account, it was dug along a horizontal datum line 26 feet below sea-level, passing through several lakes from one sea to the other, with the datum line and the water’s surface running perfectly parallel over the 100 miles.

“The distance between the Red Sea at Suez and the Mediterranean Sea is 100 statute miles, the datum line of the Canal being 26 feet below the level of the Mediterranean, and is continued horizontally the whole way from sea to sea, there not being a single lock on the Canal, the surface of the water being parallel with the datum line. It is thus clear that there is no curvature or globularity for the whole hundred miles between the Mediterranean and the Red Sea; had there been, according to the Astronomic theory, the middle of the Canal would have been 1,666 feet higher than at either end, whereas the Canal is perfectly horizontal for the whole distance.”

The Great Canal of China, said to be 700 miles in length, was made without regard to any allowance for supposed curvature. ~ David Wardlaw Scott, “Terra Firma”

The 5th August 1892, “The German Emperor performed the ceremony of opening the Gates of the Baltic and North Sea Canal, in the spring of 1891. The canal starts at Holtenau, on the south side of Kiel Bay, and joins the Elbe 15 miles above its mouth. It is 61 miles long, 200 feet wide at the surface and 85 feet at the bottom, the depth being 28 feet. No locks are required, as the surface of the two seas is level.”

Let those who believe it is the practice for surveyors to make allowance for ‘curvature’ ponder over the following from the Manchester Ship Canal Company (Earth Review, October, 1893) “It is customary in Railway and Canal constructions for all levels to be referred to a datum which is nominally horizontal and is so shown on all sections. It is not the practice in laying out Public Works to make allowances for the curvature of the earth.” ~ Thomas Winship, “Zetetic Cosmogeny”

The London and Northwestern Railway forms a straight line 180 miles long between London and Liverpool. The railroad’s highest point, midway at Birmingham station, is only 240 feet above sea-level. If the world were actually a globe, however, curveting 8 inches per mile squared, the 180 mile stretch of rail would form an arc with the center point at Birmingham raising a full 5,400 feet above London and Liverpool. Adding the station’s actual height (240 feet) to its theoretical inclination (5,400 feet) gives 5,640 feet as the rail’s necessary height on a globe-Earth, more than a thousand feet taller than Ben Nevis, the tallest mountain in Great Britain!

“In projecting railways on a globe, the datum line would be the arc of a circle corresponding to the latitude of the place. That the datum line for the railway projections is always a horizontal line, proves that the general configuration of the world is horizontal. To support the globe theory, the gentlemen of the observatories should call upon the surveyor to prove that he allows the necessary amount for ‘curvature’. But this is what the learned men dare not do, as it is well-known that the allowance for the supposed curvature is never made.” ~ Thomas Winship, “Zetetic Cosmogeny”

“In a long line, like that of the Great Pacific Railway, extending across North America, the supposed curvature would, of course, be proportionately great, extending to many miles in height, but not one inch was allowed by the engineers for curvature during the whole course of the construction of that vast line of Railway. And, if we think of it, how could it be otherwise? All Railway metals must, of necessity, be straight, for how could any engine or carriage run with safety on a convex surface?” ~ David Wardlaw Scott, “Terra Firma”

J.C. Bourne in his book, “The History of the Great Western Railway” stated that the entire original English railroad, more than 118 miles long, that the whole line with the exception of the inclined planes, may be regarded as level. The 1862 British Parliament Session which approved its construction, recorded in Order No. 44 for the proposed railway, “That the section be drawn to the same HORIZONTAL scale as the plan, and to a vertical scale of not less than one inch to every one hundred feet, and shall show the surface of the ground marked on the plan, the intended level of the proposed work, the height of every embankment, and the depth of every cutting, and a DATUM HORIZONTAL LINE which shall be the same throughout the whole length of the work.”

“One hundred and eighteen miles of LEVEL railway, and yet the surface on which it is projected a globe? Impossible. It cannot be. Early in 1898 I met Mr. Hughes, chief officer of the steamer ‘City of Lincoln’. This gentleman told me he had projected thousands of miles of level railway in South America, and never heard of any allowance for curvature being made. On one occasion he surveyed over one thousand miles of railway which was a perfect straight line all the way.

It is well known that in the Argentine Republic and other parts of South America, there are railways thousands of miles long without curve or gradient. In projecting railways, the world is acknowledged to be a plane, and if it were a globe the rules of projection have yet to be discovered. Level railways prove a level world, to the utter confusion of the globular school of impractical men with high salaries and little brains.” ~ Thomas Winship, “Zetetic Cosmogeny”

“That in all surveys no allowance is made for curvature, which would be a necessity on a globe; that a horizontal line is in every case the datum line, the same line being continuous throughout the whole length of the work; and that the theodolite cuts a line at equal altitudes on either side of it, which altitude is the same as that of the instrument, clearly proves, to those who will accept proof when it is furnished, that the world is a plane and not a globe.” ~ Thomas Winship, “Zetetic Cosmogeny”

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Females are curvey and much more to male says it all really.

Coming out of the Dark Ages, man believed the Earth was flat, and that the heavens revolved around the Earth. Evidence that contradicted these assumptions was ignored until the weight of evidence became so heavy that the comfortable assumption was eroded. How could such a theory as the flat Earth even evolve? To man today, this theory seems laughable, but when it evolved, the edges of the horizon always seemed at the edge of a flat plane, so this was the newborn child's first conclusion. But did not the fact that the stars moved about the heavens in a manner that lined up with a solar system model not move him to question? The toddler assumes the world revolves around him, and is loath to let this go. The alternate explanation, that the heavens were dancing for his amusement, fit his mind-set. Did not the Sun rise when he felt refreshed, and set when he was weary? All to serve his needs, he had no doubt.

Elaborate mathematical descriptions of trajectories and orbits were drawn up in an age when man had not peeked beyond the Solar System with high powered telescopes floating above the atmosphere, and when slow motion video was unheard of. The only complete orbits known were those of the planets which hugged the Sun, and as the math was drawn up to fit these orbits, the orbits fit the math. The explanation for comets either fit the model or they didn't. When they fit the model they were assumed to have the orbit, when out of view, that the model dictated. If they didn't fit the model then they were dressed up in mathematical curves, parabolas or hyperbolas, which came close enough to let everyone go home at the end of the day feeling smug. As concepts tend to solidify as time passes, the young taking as absolutes what their elders preach, the Earth was now no longer flat, and the heavens no long revolved around the Earth, but most certainly all orbits were elliptical.

When slow motion video demonstrated that trajectories do not, in fact, mirror the downward side to the upward side, the facts did not change the precepts taught to the young. Why change a handy tool that works for everyday applications? Close enough, and change would require reprinting all those books! The fact that the downward side of the trajectory marries the forward thrust to the gravity drop was noted by those who think deeply about such matters, and is a known but not extensively taught fact. For most, the Earth is still flat, as they have not been told otherwise and are not inclined to question. Where the trajectory precept stands inviolate to most, the precepts of elliptical orbits have even fewer challenges. Man sees the dance of stars, but there are so many variables that come into play, about which he is uncertain at best, that the arrows of doubt seldom get launched. Yet the arrows exists.

Where orbits are snug about their center of gravity, there is little contradiction between these and what mankind calls their laws of gravity and motion. These are not laws, of course, but elaborate descriptions of what they observe. The flaws in the laws, however, were always present. If gravity diminishes with distance, but distance is attained with speed, then an object in a snug elliptical orbit seems to logically be adhering to the laws of gravity and motion. Speed up during the approach, sling past, and the speed carries the body outward where the diminishing gravity pull slows the body down so that its curve sidewards takes predominance. The theory fit what man observed, and thus was not questioned until his powers of observation increased. Tiny comets, seen by man in the past only when they gave their brilliant displays while going around the Sun, have only recently been observed in great detail during this passage.

Repeating comets are not slinging past, as in a passing body. They are in orbit, doing the better part of a circle about the Sun. Unlike the planets, whose center of gravity is just that, at the center, the comet does not behave as though the Sun is its center of gravity. The elliptical orbit of planets is such that if one were to examine the distance from the Sun, the difference at any given point would be slight. It is more circular than not. Comets, however, are at the other extreme. They appear to be a fan, rather than an eye. For the laws of gravity and motion to fit, the comet must be increasing its speed as it leaves the Sun, thus explaining its increasing distance. However, careful studies have shown this not to be the case. The comet is going its fastest when closest to the Sun, and has slowed down when it begins to leave what is assumed to be its gravitational master. The slowing precedes the exit, thus throwing the smug assumptions of man into consternation.

In addition, the distance comets travel outward, and the curvature of their exit are now able to be examined where in the past they were an unknown. They go essentially straight away, not the curve anticipated. Thus the distance from the Sun wherein they would have to complete an elliptical curve is extreme, challenging the laws of gravity and motion. The distance where the elliptical curve would reinstate is too far, and the curve during the straight away too slight. Rather than deal with this new information, the majority of scientists prefer their comfort factor over new knowledge. Change is resisted, and for many the Earth is still flat.

http://www.zetatalk.com/science/s61.htm

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On 11/12/2020 at 6:26 PM, Ybotc said:

NASA being paid millions doesn’t seem be a reason to cover up the flat earth

It is an ancillary benefit and the money involved is ridiculous. Nasa was invented to to hype the ball fantasy PSYOP.

 

On 11/12/2020 at 6:26 PM, Ybotc said:

just can’t see that it would make any difference to people if the earth was flat or spherica

The shape does not matter to anyone. It's the lies. It is how uncovering this one obvious lie exposes the rest.

 

On 11/12/2020 at 6:26 PM, Ybotc said:

I understand these questions could be seen as an outsider trying to get a rise, but genuinely interested in antártica (why I read the thread) and also why people believe the earth is flat.

There is a thread on Antarctica and why? Because no demonstrable science has ever shown otherwise. What science tells us does not concur demonstrable reality.

 

On 11/12/2020 at 7:45 PM, Ybotc said:

can you expand (or link to resource) I’m not sure why a spherical earth prohibits the existentes of God 

God can be anything to anyone, but the teachings from the cultists who preach big bang initiated spheres orbiting things is antithetical to the teachings of the bible.

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3 hours ago, Ziggy Sawdust said:

This question usually turns globe believers brains to mush.

 

"If I theoretically start digging a hole and keep digging until I come out on  the other side of the 'ball' we live on will I appear feet first or head first?"

 

 

The head first. After half way, you digging upwards🙃

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8 hours ago, zArk said:

heres a great video that smashes the moon landing in the 1st section 0 mins to 5 min 48

 

awesome

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=08isbZ_Mopk

 

section 2-- 5min 48  -- is even more perplexing as again it uses the official calculations and model to show how it contradicts itself

 

Tbh, you should recommend the channel owner go back to school. There is very stupid stuff in this video. On 10 minutes and 10 seconds - the Earth will not always be straight up 90 degrees. Only centre point of Moon surface is 90 degrees. On 10 minutes and 48 seconds Sun is not at mid-day for missions, deliberately landings were early in Lunar day. 11 minutes and six seconds is fake photograph from the channel owner. I can go on for all things this person says, just very stupid - no education.

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8 hours ago, Doctor What said:

 

Tbh, you should recommend the channel owner go back to school. There is very stupid stuff in this video. On 10 minutes and 10 seconds - the Earth will not always be straight up 90 degrees. Only centre point of Moon surface is 90 degrees. On 10 minutes and 48 seconds Sun is not at mid-day for missions, deliberately landings were early in Lunar day. 11 minutes and six seconds is fake photograph from the channel owner. I can go on for all things this person says, just very stupid - no education.

Any counter for the 0 mins to 5mins 48 argumemt?

Tbh i havent watched past 8 mins mark so i will see what your goig on about

 

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5 hours ago, zArk said:

Any counter for the 0 mins to 5mins 48 argumemt?

Tbh i havent watched past 8 mins mark so i will see what your goig on about

 

 

This is similar claims to jumping up and Earth moves under the feet at 1000 mph! Earth and Moon form relative system with each other - so travel to surface is simply matching forward velocity with the ground. 

 

As regarding jumping up on the Moon, any object on the surface has same relative speed and inertia, same as on a train. I don't understand how people can be confused on this. As I said post before, the video creator has missed out on simple physics education.

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3 hours ago, Doctor What said:

 

This is similar claims to jumping up and Earth moves under the feet at 1000 mph! Earth and Moon form relative system with each other - so travel to surface is simply matching forward velocity with the ground. 

 

As regarding jumping up on the Moon, any object on the surface has same relative speed and inertia, same as on a train. I don't understand how people can be confused on this. As I said post before, the video creator has missed out on simple physics education.

 

thanks

 

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5 hours ago, Doctor What said:

This is similar claims to jumping up and Earth moves under the feet at 1000 mph!

We are told that we are spinning around an axis at beyond 1000 mph at the equator as we travel at over 66,600 mph around our Sun. Without even mentioning all the other motions at speeds approaching over 2,600 times the speed of sound, directions, and wobbles, you are already on a double motion ride that you can not detect.

 

Sure. Makes perfect sense.

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17 hours ago, amy G said:

We are told that we are spinning around an axis at beyond 1000 mph at the equator as we travel at over 66,600 mph around our Sun. Without even mentioning all the other motions at speeds approaching over 2,600 times the speed of sound, directions, and wobbles, you are already on a double motion ride that you can not detect.

 

 

For Galaxial rotation, all solar system is enclosed in spin and moves at 490,000 mph and is all relative with no detection.

For Solar orbit, all matter inside gravity well is enclosed in spin and is all relative with no detection.

For Earth spin, it takes one whole day at 1000 mph equator, this is very slow relative to the ground detection.

 

17 hours ago, amy G said:

Sure. Makes perfect sense.

 

To people who understand the laws of physics and dynamics, all makes perfect sense. You are equivalent to a dark ages man with your appealing to incredulity. Space is mainly full vacuum.

 

If we examine alternative, which means every scientist is a liar, all of astronomy students active on the planet are stupid, the fields of cosmologists are all wrong - this just scratches the surface. Your beliefs submit no peer reviewed papers examining stupid flat earth - it is the dumbest claim on the planet.

 

 

 

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23 hours ago, Doctor What said:

For Galaxial rotation, all solar system is enclosed in spin and moves at 490,000 mph and is all relative with no detection.

Any demonstrable proof of this claim that you can show us based on the scientific method?

 

23 hours ago, Doctor What said:

For Solar orbit, all matter inside gravity well is enclosed in spin and is all relative with no detection.

Any demonstrable proof of this claim that you can show us based on the scientific method?

 

23 hours ago, Doctor What said:

For Earth spin, it takes one whole day at 1000 mph equator, this is very slow relative to the ground detection.

A) Any demonstrable proof of this claim that you can show us based on the scientific method?

 

B) Very slow? But then if I hit a golf ball directly North from the equator that hangs in the air for only 10 seconds, the ball would be expected to touch down 14,666 feet to the west which equates to over 2 3/4 miles?

 

23 hours ago, Doctor What said:

You are equivalent to a dark ages man with your appealing to incredulity.

Back atcha.

 

23 hours ago, Doctor What said:

Space is mainly full vacuum.

Any demonstrable proof of this claim that you can show us based on the scientific method?

 

23 hours ago, Doctor What said:

If we examine alternative, which means every scientist is a liar, all of astronomy students active on the planet are stupid, the fields of cosmologists are all wrong - this just scratches the surface.

Well, how tight is your mask? Do you believe that HIV turns into AIDS? Have you vaccinated your children? Do you and yours drink fluoridated water? Do your children ingest genetically modified organisms?

 

Look man, every scientist is not a liar and all of astronomy students active on the planet are not stupid. They are brainwashed since childhood, very trusting of known liars and they simply have not yet figured out these lies because of the indoctrination to ideas they which have assumed is based in fact.

 

23 hours ago, Doctor What said:

Your beliefs submit no peer reviewed papers examining stupid flat earth - it is the dumbest claim on the planet.

The dumbest claim on our plane is claiming to know otherwise. It's all just belief from those indoctrinated into a religion that they never even knew they signed up for. The saddest part is that they do this whole thing while claiming "science."

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1 minute ago, amy G said:

Very slow? But then if I hit a golf ball directly North from the equator that hangs in the air for only 10 seconds, the ball would be expected to touch down 14,666 feet to the west which equates to over 2 3/4 miles?

 

This has been clearly explained over and over on this thread.
You are very very boring..
 

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4 minutes ago, Basket Case said:

 

This has been clearly explained over and over on this thread.
You are very very boring..
 

I'm sorry but explanations are not demonstrable science. This has been explained over and over on this thread.
You are very very boring.

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2 hours ago, amy G said:

Any demonstrable proof of this claim that you can show us based on the scientific method?

 

Any demonstrable proof of this claim that you can show us based on the scientific method?

 

A) Any demonstrable proof of this claim that you can show us based on the scientific method?

 

Any demonstrable proof of this claim that you can show us based on the scientific method?

 

Observational evidence from cosmology and astronomy fields. No need for you to call everyone liars or fools, you are a troll and this is expected.

 

2 hours ago, amy G said:

But then if I hit a golf ball directly North from the equator that hangs in the air for only 10 seconds, the ball would be expected to touch down 14,666 feet to the west which equates to over 2 3/4 miles?

 

Do you understand what is friction? All atmosphere is attracted to surface from gravity, or in your case 'magic density' (that you cannot properly explain). Surface rotating, pulls air and creates currents.

 

I have new question for you:

 

Why do hurricanes spin counter clockwise in North of equator and clockwise on South?

 

2 hours ago, amy G said:

Well, how tight is your mask? Do you believe that HIV turns into AIDS? Have you vaccinated your children? Do you and yours drink fluoridated water? Do your children ingest genetically modified organisms?

 

This is non-sequitur argument. You seek to divert from the statement with other claims that are also speculation and conspiracy origin. 

 

2 hours ago, amy G said:

Look man, every scientist is not a liar and all of astronomy students active on the planet are not stupid. They are brainwashed since childhood, very trusting of known liars and they simply have not yet figured out these lies because of the indoctrination to ideas they which have assumed is based in fact.

 

I laugh at you and your absurd reality. Only the 'flat-earth' people have intelligence to figure these easy to see things? Your arguments are very poor and show your naivety.

 

2 hours ago, amy G said:

The dumbest claim on our plane is claiming to know otherwise. It's all just belief from those indoctrinated into a religion that they never even knew they signed up for. The saddest part is that they do this whole thing while claiming "science."

 

If you are so sure of your claims, why do you fear explaining with answers to questions posed to you?!

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On 11/24/2020 at 10:02 PM, Doctor What said:

11 minutes and six seconds is fake photograph from the channel owner.

the guy who made the video or the website the photo was on? how do you know its a fake? ta

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2 hours ago, zArk said:

the guy who made the video or the website the photo was on? how do you know its a fake? ta

 

The main piece of image is from Apollo 11:-

 

5931.jpg (800×586) (nasa.gov)

 

There is assembled panoramas of actual photographs like this one:-

 

AP11pan.jpg (3744×564) (usgs.gov)

 

Notice there is not the Earth in the picture, it is higher in the sky and half phase. Image used in youtube video is a wallpaper for computer  - Earth is added for effects:-

 

NvFGhP.jpg (760×380) (wallpapersafari.com)

 

Here is elevation and phase and it does not change while Apollo 11 is landed:-

 

AS11-40-5924.jpg

 

 

 

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On 11/25/2020 at 5:35 PM, amy G said:

We are told that we are spinning around an axis at beyond 1000 mph at the equator as we travel at over 66,600 mph around our Sun. Without even mentioning all the other motions at speeds approaching over 2,600 times the speed of sound, directions, and wobbles, you are already on a double motion ride that you can not detect.

 

Sure. Makes perfect sense.

 

There's that number 666 again!

Yeah, all that motion and the constellations never change either.

It's flat and still folks.

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5 hours ago, Doctor What said:

 

The main piece of image is from Apollo 11:-

 

5931.jpg (800×586) (nasa.gov)

 

There is assembled panoramas of actual photographs like this one:-

 

AP11pan.jpg (3744×564) (usgs.gov)

 

Notice there is not the Earth in the picture, it is higher in the sky and half phase. Image used in youtube video is a wallpaper for computer  - Earth is added for effects:-

 

NvFGhP.jpg (760×380) (wallpapersafari.com)

 

Here is elevation and phase and it does not change while Apollo 11 is landed:-

 

 

 

fair point well seen, any 'made for effect' images should be noticed using a banner at the very least and really i dont see any need to create such an image.

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