"The Scouring Of the Shire"

[THESTRONG-THEVALIANT]

This is a topic on the chapter of the Scouring of the Shire (I'm creating it for discussions sake) - from the Lord of the Rings book by J.R.R. Tolkien. I was posting about this here:

 

 

I was saying that it's a good story. It's one of the last chapters in the Lord of the Rings. Merry, Pippin, Frodo & Sam - come back to Shire. It's controlled by mean ruffians and the shire folk have no merry life.

 

Then they wake up the shire - then they overthrew the corrupt and reclaimed their harmony - in an impressive manner.

Edited May 16, 2020 by THESTRONG-THEVALIANT

[Aratron]

Saruman is now called Sharkey he and swarthy men and Grima Wormtongue desecrate the shire

[THESTRONG-THEVALIANT]

HERE's IN THE MOVIES - A SCENE WHERE THE HOBBITS FIND THEIR FOOD IN SARUMANS SHED. I MEAN WHILE THEY WERE IN ISENGARD. THEY DID NOT KNOW THEN THAT HE HAD CONTROL OF THEIR HOME COUNTRY SHIRE

Edited May 16, 2020 by THESTRONG-THEVALIANT

[Aratron]

The main reason Saruman went to the Shire was to obtain and smoke weed and then secure that supply. 
A bit like the Opium Wars

[THESTRONG-THEVALIANT]

Saruman traded shire goods to himself - while the war of the ring was taking place he bascially jailed the Shire mayor and put the corrupt to send the goods. The pipe weed as all out of stock when they came back, and the beer. . .

Edited May 16, 2020 by THESTRONG-THEVALIANT

[Tinfoil Hat]

I grew up with Tolkien's books, and I've always thought of them as much more than stories. They are a true motivator, and if I feel frightened, I remind myself of the Hobbit's bravery and keep going. 

 

Good V Evil

 

You can't give in & let evil reign, it's that simple.

[Tom bombadil]

4 hours ago, Aratron said:

The main reason Saruman went to the Shire was to obtain and smoke weed and then secure that supply. 
A bit like the Opium Wars

 

I don't believe that to be correct. 

 

In a nutshell he was jealous of Gandalf's connection with something that he could not ever understand! So he unconsciously ended up there on his way toward the Undying Lands across the sea!

 

He needed to understand what hold it had on Gandalf and in the process he ended up destroying it.

 

He already had a love for "the weed" and secretly understood that it DID have a hold on him.  He knew it to be more than merely addiction and he put it on the back-burner to return to later after he was in full control with the Ring.

 

He could never sail to the Undying Lands but he might try.  It was his only exit from Middle Earth as all routes were blocked save for the relative 'fenced off and guarded' shire.  A place to hide and 'put up'!

 

He knew his powers were gone but not his wisdom and intelegance.   Simple-minded Shire folk were no match for him.

 

But between you and me -a-bomb dillow with my head on the pillow...I don't think he thought it through!

[Aratron]

1 hour ago, Tom bombadil said:

 

I don't believe that to be correct. 

 

In a nutshell he was jealous of Gandalf's connection with something that he could not ever understand! So he unconsciously ended up there on his way toward the Undying Lands across the sea!

 

He needed to understand what hold it had on Gandalf and in the process he ended up destroying it.

 

He already had a love for "the weed" and secretly understood that it DID have a hold on him.  He knew it to be more than merely addiction and he put it on the back-burner to return to later after he was in full control with the Ring.

 

He could never sail to the Undying Lands but he might try.  It was his only exit from Middle Earth as all routes were blocked save for the relative 'fenced off and guarded' shire.  A place to hide and 'put up'!

 

He knew his powers were gone but not his wisdom and intelegance.   Simple-minded Shire folk were no match for him.

 

But between you and me -a-bomb dillow with my head on the pillow...I don't think he thought it through!

I never understood who he lost his powers  he was still a Maiar at the end of the day.

[Wee Warrior]

4 hours ago, Tinfoil Hat said:

I grew up with Tolkien's books, and I've always thought of them as much more than stories. They are a true motivator, and if I feel frightened, I remind myself of the Hobbit's bravery and keep going. 

 

Good V Evil

 

You can't give in & let evil reign, it's that simple.

Absolutely agree, the concepts I learned from Tolkien affected me more deeply than the mainstream religious stories. I often reminded myself when times get tough that at least I'm not crawling up Mount Doom!  
I love the Scouring of the Shire scenario because, although they have all performed great deeds on their travels, I think it is the first time the hobbits realize how much they have learned and are able to immediately put it to good use. Just gives me goosebumps every time and tempts me to run outside and yell "FEAR FIRE FOES AWAKE" and see what happens 

[Nemuri Kyoshiro]

1 minute ago, Aratron said:

I never understood who he lost his powers  he was still a Maiar at the end of the day.

 

He did not lose all his powers. Gandalf warned the Hobbits of this on their way back to the Shire, but they were certainly limited.

[Aratron]

2 minutes ago, Nemuri Kyoshiro said:

 

He did not lose all his powers. Gandalf warned the Hobbits of this on their way back to the Shire, but they were certainly limited.

I’m not convinced, Tolkien rushed that the later stages of the book. It’s not of the same quality as the hobbit or much of the first age material or even the start of LOR

[Nemuri Kyoshiro]

18 minutes ago, Aratron said:

I’m not convinced, Tolkien rushed that the later stages of the book. It’s not of the same quality as the hobbit or much of the first age material or even the start of LOR

 

I can only go by what's contained in the book but Saruman's powers were clearly diminished after his defeat at Helm's Deep. Gandalf again alluded to this as they all rode to Isengard and Saruman came back at Gandalf's command. Moreover, Gandalf had returned a far more powerful figure than he was before Moria - greater than Saruman. What powers do you think Saruman retained, other than the power to do mischief and command ignorant louts and gullible Hobbits?

Edited May 16, 2020 by Nemuri Kyoshiro

[Aratron]

39 minutes ago, Nemuri Kyoshiro said:

 

I can only go by what's contained in the book but Saruman's powers were clearly diminished after his defeat at Helm's Deep. Gandalf again alluded to this as they all rode to Isengard and Saruman came back at Gandalf's command. Moreover, Gandalf had returned a far more powerful figure than he was before Moria - greater than Saruman. What powers do you think Saruman retained, other than the power to do mischief and command ignorant louts and gullible Hobbits?

Well I should imagine some ability with magic.

 

[Nemuri Kyoshiro]

32 minutes ago, Aratron said:

Well I should imagine some ability with magic.

 

Apart from his power over the Ruffians and Lotho, the only other thing I can think of is his power to mesmerize with his voice. He inveigled Treebeard into releasing him from Orthanc but Gandalf explained how that happened.

[Tom bombadil]

10 hours ago, Aratron said:

I never understood who he lost his powers  he was still a Maiar at the end of the day.

I believe that it was mentioned as such in the way the breaking of his staff was the source of his power.  It wasn't of course but it was a focal point. 

 

He still had his tongue, again referenced in the book as being the last of his great powers (my words) .

[Aratron]

1 hour ago, Tom bombadil said:

I believe that it was mentioned as such in the way the breaking of his staff was the source of his power.  It wasn't of course but it was a focal point. 

 

He still had his tongue, again referenced in the book as being the last of his great powers (my words) .

I just figured someone as wise and a spirit from before the first age would have figured out other ways to exercise his divinity and essence powers other than his staff and voice.

[Tom bombadil]

4 hours ago, Aratron said:

I just figured someone as wise and a spirit from before the first age would have figured out other ways to exercise his divinity and essence powers other than his staff and voice.

 

Dunno about that but I'm sure he was full of himself as he did think he could get one over Sauron!

 

Maybe it never crossed his mind?  Big villans have a habit of overlooking that they might one day be defeated. 

 

There is a pod cast out there called The Tolkien Professor.  It's full on everything we need   

 

I even might try to find out my origin's aTom dill.  A sweet mellow pill.  A rom a rom -romer, a spade and a hammer.

 

I haven't listened to it in ages.  I might just.....

Edited May 17, 2020 by Tom bombadil
Spellingses

[THESTRONG-THEVALIANT]

18 hours ago, Aratron said:

I never understood who he lost his powers  he was still a Maiar at the end of the day.

 

I think he lost his powers because Gandalf had defeated him.

 

For his foul deeds Saruman got an awful death - Grima sprang on him and sliced his throat. Saruman's spirit rose from his body like smoke from a fire, looked toward the West, and disappeared with the wind. https://lord-of-the-rings.org/books/saruman.html

 

but blew Eeastwards nonetheless. I remember in the book. I think Tolkien mentioned in a letter that "he was not allowed "back" to where he came from" or something along those lines . . . 

 

then comes Dagor Dagorath

 

If in the Day of Doom
one deathless stands,
who death hath tasted
and dies no more,
the serpent-slayer,
seed of Ódin,
then all shall not end,
nor Earth perish.
—The Legend of Sigurd and Gudrún, "Völsungskviða en nýja", Upphaf v.14

 

1 hour ago, Tom bombadil said:

There is a pod cast out there called The Tolkien Professor.  It's full on everything we need   

 

 

Hey thanks for that pod info I'll watch it.

Edited May 17, 2020 by THESTRONG-THEVALIANT

[Aratron]

30 minutes ago, THESTRONG-THEVALIANT said:

 

I think he lost his powers because Gandalf had defeated him.

 

For his foul deeds Saruman got an awful death - Grima sprang on him and sliced his throat. Saruman's spirit rose from his body like smoke from a fire, looked toward the West, and disappeared with the wind. https://lord-of-the-rings.org/books/saruman.html

 

but blew Eeastwards nonetheless. I remember in the book. I think Tolkien mentioned in a letter that "he was not allowed "back" to where he came from" or something along those lines . . . 

 

then comes Dagor Dagorath

 

If in the Day of Doom
one deathless stands,
who death hath tasted
and dies no more,
the serpent-slayer,
seed of Ódin,
then all shall not end,
nor Earth perish.
—The Legend of Sigurd and Gudrún, "Völsungskviða en nýja", Upphaf v.14

 

 

Hey thanks for that pod info I'll watch it.

So he will have entered the void with Melkor and Sauron

[THESTRONG-THEVALIANT]

1 hour ago, Aratron said:

So he will have entered the void with Melkor and Sauron

 

Most likely something along those lines

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited May 17, 2020 by THESTRONG-THEVALIANT