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This topic is for all general discussion regarding the current COVID-19 pandemic. There are of course numerous other related topics for discussing specific aspects of this pandemic in more detail. And there are other parts of this forum for more 'off-topic' discussions.

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Care homes ‘ordered not to resuscitate’ as coronavirus pandemic took hold


Hannah Mays

Monday August 24 2020, 12.01am, The Times

Care homes were asked to introduce blanket “do not resuscitate” orders for all residents at the height of the coronavirus pandemic, it has been claimed.

The Queen’s Nursing Institute (QNI), a charity promoting community nursing, found that one in ten care homes were ordered to introduce the measure without discussion with staff, family members or the residents. It was intended to help keep hospital beds free.

Half of staff members who said that they had been asked to change DNRs worked in homes for people with learning or cognitive disabilities. The other half worked in homes for the elderly.

Alison Leary, professor of healthcare and workforce modelling at London South Bank University and the author of the report, described the findings as worrying and called for an inquiry.

The survey of 128 care home managers and nurses also found that during March and April one fifth received residents from the hospital sector who had tested positive for coronavirus. Almost half said that they had been sent residents from hospitals before they had been tested, and one third said that they had not always had access to appropriate personal protective equipment.

When asked about DNRs, one respondent said: “We were advised to have them in place for all residents. We acted in accordance with medical advice and resident wishes, not as advised by a directive to put in place for all by a clinical care group representative. We challenged this as unethical.”

Another said that DNRs were “put in place without family consent by trust staff, and no consultation with staff in the home”.

Stephen Powis, the NHS England medical director, wrote to NHS staff in April banning blanket DNRs after a practice in Port Talbot, south Wales, was found to have asked elderly patients to complete forms to stop emergency services being called if they contracted Covid-19.

A surgery in Somerset was found to have told autistic adults that they should sign DNRs to prevent resuscitation if they became critically ill. The learning disability care provider Turning Point said that it had received an “unprecedented” number of DNR forms from GPs.


Professor Leary told The Daily Telegraph: “I was quite surprised how many people reported issues with DNRs as I was expecting one or two, but that 10 per cent of the respondents raised an issue, because they were either blanket decisions for whole populations, or they were imposed without discussion with the care home or the family or the residents, is really worrying.

“These decisions were being made by NHS managers not clinicians. And this wasn’t just happening with elderly people, it was those with learning disabilities or cognitive problems of all ages.

“I think there should be an inquiry. The way the situation for care homes has been handled needs a retrospective view, particularly because winter is coming, which is always a difficult time for this group of people.”

Crystal Oldman, the QNI’s chief executive, said: “More needs to be done to understand the effect of Covid-19 on the workforce and residents in care homes.

“Urgent attention must be paid to the sector if the workforce is to withstand the additional demands of the pandemic, particularly in planning, 

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9 minutes ago, Fluke said:


Nice to see you fluke 



This too on Sweden



monday august 24 2020



Sweden claims fall in coronavirus infection rate is down to immunity

The infection rate in France is more than 60 per cent higher than that of Sweden


Bruno Waterfierld

Monday August 24 2020, 12.01am, The Times


Sweden is beating many European countries in the fight against new coronavirus infections, possibly because of its decision not to implement tough lockdown measures.

As cases surge across Europe, leading to new restrictions such as the mandatory wearing of masks in many public areas, the infection rate in Sweden is falling.

“Sweden is doing fine,” Arne Elofsson, a professor in biometrics at Stockholm University, said. “Strict rules do not work as people seem to break them.”

Figures from the European Centre for Disease Prevention and Control show that the infection rate in France is more than 60 per cent higher than that of Sweden. France implemented a strict lockdown in the spring and requires masks to be worn in many public areas but has a fortnightly infection rate of 60 cases per 100,000 people.

Sweden, which decided not to implement compulsory measures at that time and which rejected the use of masks, has a rate of 37 cases per 100,000 people. The government is recording between 200 and 300 new cases a day, with deaths down to three last Friday.

Anders Tegnell, the Swedish state epidemiologist leading the response to the pandemic, has noted, based on the statistics, that infection rates have increased in countries such Spain, Belgium and France during and following the mandatory wearing of masks in many public areas. “The belief that masks can solve our problem is very dangerous,” he said last week.

From the beginning of the pandemic Sweden built its response on voluntary social-distancing guidelines, including home-working and recommendations for people to avoid public transport.

Compulsory measures were limited to a ban on gatherings of more than 50 people, restrictions on visiting care homes, and table-only service in bars and restaurants. On Friday Stefan Lofven, the prime minister, told the newspaper Dagens Nyheter: “What has been discussed most, and what we did differently in Sweden, was that we did not close schools. Now there are quite a few people who think we were right.”

The decision not to implement a lockdown was not without cost. Sweden’s per capita death rate from Covid-19 is the sixth highest in the world and much higher than its Nordic neighbours: more than five times Denmark’s.



Even in terms of the death rate, however, Sweden’s experience is more complex than first apparent. Half the country’s 5,810 Covid-19 deaths have taken place in care homes, rather than in the general population.

Belgium, which implemented a stringent lockdown in March, has the highest per capita death rate from the virus in the world. Similarly to Sweden, about half the Belgian deaths occurred among elderly and infirm people in care homes who were not affected by the absence or otherwise of lockdown measures.

“Clearly it is a tragedy that so many people died in the elderly homes but it is not really clear what would have been the best strategy to avoid that,” Professor Elofsson said.

One key factor in Sweden’s lower rate of infection is thought to be the emergence of a form of “herd immunity” that is more advanced among Swedes than in countries where lockdowns were implemented.

This means that Sweden is now, according to some evidence, benefiting from avoiding compulsory restrictions.

Looking at the total number of people infected since the crisis began, Sweden has one of the highest figures in Europe, at 843 cases per 100,000 people. In France, after restrictions on social interaction and measures such as the use of masks, which will be compulsory at work from September 1, the total figure is 349 cases per 100,000.

The higher level of cases among the general population in Sweden is thought — by Dr Tegnell and other Swedish scientists — to indicate a form of immunity much wider than that accounted for by the numbers of people carrying antibodies for the virus.

“What we are seeing now in Sweden is a rapid decline in the number of cases, and of course some sort of immunity must be responsible for that since nothing else has changed,” Dr Tegnell told the Unherd website last month.

A study publicised by the Karolinska Institute in Stockholm last week found that people who test negative for antibodies may still have a high level of immunity, through white blood cells that identify and destroy the virus. “T-cells are a type of white blood cells that are specialised in recognising virus-infected cells,” Professor Marcus Buggert, an immunologist at the institute, said. “Our results indicate that roughly twice as many people have developed T-cell immunity compared with those who we can detect antibodies in.”

The research indicates that levels of combined T-cell and antibody immunity could be more than 30 per cent, giving Sweden an edge in preventing the same resurgence in the virus that is taking place across Europe. “I think it is likely that such outbreaks will be easier to control in Sweden because there is immunity among the population,” Dr Tegnell said. “All previous experience with measles and other diseases shows that a high level of immunity in the population makes it easier to control the outbreaks than when there is no immunity at all among the population.”

Sweden’s approach to the virus has prompted heated debate at home and abroad. Around the time that deaths passed 1,000 in April, 22 of the country’s scientists wrote an article in Dagens Nyheter accusing “officials without talent” of having “no well-thought-out, well-functioning strategy”. In June, the month that deaths passed 5,000, Dr Tegnell said: “If we would encounter the same disease, with exactly what we know about it today, I think we would land midway between what Sweden did and what the rest of the world did.”

Mr Lofven agreed to a public inquiry but later told The Times: “We wanted to implement measures and to take decisions that we thought could be sustainable for a long time. Locking down a society? You can’t do that for too long.”



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3 hours ago, EnigmaticWorld said:

Trump ‘considering fast-tracking UK’s coronavirus vaccine before US election’




Edit: To be fair I don't think he said mandatory.


I read this, but the original link Financial Times said it was came from 3 top democrats. So how legit it is who knows.


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Last week, here in Birmingham, there was the 'threat' of a local lockdown, due to 'rising' number of coronavirus 'cases'.


This week:

Birmingham 'is no coronavirus hotspot' warns former city chief as rate of cases falls



How convenient.



The city of Birmingham was placed on the Government's national watchlist on August 21 as an "area of enhanced support", meaning it will be provided with extra resources and support to help increase testing and manage outbreaks if necessary.

No new restrictions have been placed on residents, however, and the number of new cases is falling.

Birmingham currently has the 17th highest rate in England, with 23.6 cases per 100,000 people recorded in the seven days to August 20 - down from 30.4 in the previous seven days.


Some good points are raised here, and it has to be said that the Birmingham Mail is just one of many local news rags that fail to realise that Birmingham is a pretty big city and these 'cases' are not widespread.



Speaking to BBC Radio 4 presenter Sarah Montague today, John Clancy, a former leader of Birmingham City Council, has suggested that hyperlocal interventions are required in order to tackle an increases.

He told the BBC: “The real fact of the matter is that the cases are increasing in a very localised way in the patchwork of the city – for example, 87 of Birmingham’s 132 neighbourhoods didn’t record a single test of positive Covid-19  in the last week. 

“What’s happening is hyperlocal outbreaks and the problem is if you then take a sledgehammer and say the whole of Birmingham is a hotspot what you are not doing is dealing with the problem with a hyperlocal intervention.

“There can be very special cases in a special neighbourhood that causes a sudden increase. But putting a whole city into lockdown because certain parts of the city has an issue really isn’t the way to deal with the matter.

"What we are not seeing is an increase in hospital admissions.

"Testing is showing that the disease is in the community but it is not now leading to hospital admissions and it is not now, thankfully, leading to deaths.

"It is probably a waste of resources, time, effort and energy to shut down an entire city. Literally 716,000 Brummies live in an area where there was no positive tests in the last week. 371 people living in areas which haven’t recorded any cases in the last eight weeks."


I know the whole 'cases' thing is pretty dubious, but I did ponder on this myself earlier in the 'lockdown', namely if there were no 'cases' in my local area, why were we all 'acting like we've got it'? If a few people in Northfield happened to catch this 'virus', why should people in Sutton Coldfield, miles away at the opposite end of the city, have to face a 'local lockdown'?



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1 hour ago, oneantisworthtenofyou said:

 DR. todd is either ignorant or intentionally misleading he misquotes david on virtually everything 

VERY nice to see the 11 thousand down votes have discouraged DR no integrity from making part 2




This point may not hold a lot of worth when judging the two and their conclusions but I watched 10 minutes of that, and recognised the cuts. If it was a drinking game I'd call the ambulance before we started. I don't know if he ever made any sense but first impressions, prick. I'll see if I can force down the concluding 6 minutes

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COVID-19 aka 'THE PANDEMIC' now used for political purposes, local policing, 'surgical' psy-ops or even financial speculation… how easy and handy…


Hello John !... got a big real estate deal soon ready for settlement by there but local market prices are a bit high these days ! could you please broadcast another COVID case rise ASAP ?!... no no it's the last time you'll not hear from me before long ! got my word !


It's getting too blatant now as much the media people are being randomly pulling a new 'COVID rise' out of their hat almost every day… it's become a tool of local politics or speculation in many fields related to anything but 'public health', Medicine or COVID-19…


The MEDIA ever and again, and WE stupid cattle are being made wear paper masks, 'social distance' or stay home just to help some rich PIGS make more easy money…


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3 hours ago, SimonTV said:

Oxford Professor Says People Have Become “Overly Frightened” of Coronavirus




Father Anthony de Mello SJ, tells the story of Pestilence who was on its way to Damascus and sped by a chief’s caravan in the desert.


“Where are you speeding to?” asked the chief.


“To Damascus, I mean to take a thousand lives.”


On its way back from Damascus, Pestilence passed by the caravan again.


The chief said, “It was 50,000 lives that you took, not a thousand!”


“No,” said Pestilence. “I took a thousand, it was Fear that took the rest.”



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That ghoul. Grinning wide at the trap.


I hope that they don't accept it. I don't want to incriminate myself by exposing my ideas to resist but at the same time I can say fuck them. I'll try to warn the dumb scum they are in jeapordy when it comes to sweeping me up, and whatever happens happens after they ignore it

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School bus policy will see pupils in same seats and told to 'avoid loud talking'


Children taking buses to school will be asked to sit in the same seat for every journey, only face forwards and to "avoid loud talking, shouting or singing" according to new policies.

the new term starts next month.

Pupils are also being asked to avoid using public transport.

The council says on some rural public bus services, it will put on extra buses just for school children and students.

The authority said seating arrangements will reflect school year group ‘bubbles’, with the eldest pupils at the rear and the youngest at the front.

Pupils aged over 11 also have to wear face coverings unless exempt

The guidance also states: "During the journey, pupils should face forwards, not touch others, not move out of their seat and avoid loud talking, shouting or singing."

Ed Potter, Cabinet member for children’s services, said: “The health and safety of our school children is vitally important at all times, but especially at the moment. We want our pupils – and their parents and carers – to be confident that they can travel safely to school once terms starts next month, and that’s why this guidance is so important.

“I’m extremely grateful to the council’s transport team who have worked incredibly hard to prepare this document ahead of schools going back next month. I’d also like to thank all the schools and transport operators who commented on, and contributed to, the draft version.

“Our draft guidance was shared with the Department for Transport and Department for Education and used to inform and advise the national guidance that was issued last week. It was also shared with councils across the country to help them prepare their guidance documents. This is something we can be incredibly proud of, and people in Shropshire can be sure that we are offering the very best advice, and advice that is held in high regard nationally.”




Sorry, we are not accepting comments on this article.


What a surprise no comments allowed.


Uhhhh yes ok sound of music children when they first appeared in the movie.

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Super rich party it up during COVID-19, the ‘poor person’s virus’


August 15, 2020 | 5:50pm | Updated


While the rest of us hunker down, forgo our vacations and family reunions, and suffer from maskne (the acne that comes with wearing a mask) — in the world of the uber-rich, it’s very, very different.


Despite the coronavirus still killing 1,000 people a day in America and unemployment is at an all-time high, billionaires are throwing parties, traveling on private jets, luxuriating on yachts around the world, buying citizenship in “safe” countries and having fun on $12,000 motorized surfboards.


“Coronavirus is a poor person’s virus,” one wealthy Silicon Valley denizen told Vanity Fair.


And while the majority of the country is tightening their belts, the rich have become richer with billionaires becoming 10% wealthier during the COVID-19 crisis — and they’re starting to live in a parallel universe than the rest of us.[…]


billionaire David Geffen has been hanging on his yacht, Tom Hanks and Rita Wilson are cruising Greece in another yacht after receiving “honorary” citizenship, Facebook overlord Mark Zuckerberg has been trolling the waters off Hawaii in a $12,000 surfboard, Jeff Bezos and his lady friend have been (multiple) house-hunting, buying up millions of dollars in property in Los Angeles to build a compound while traveling via private jet to several cities around the country, former Mayor Bloomberg splashed out $45 million on a Colorado compound (joining a host of other billionaires buying in that state as well as Montana and Wyoming); and others are spending millions to buy citizenship in “safe” countries like New Zealand.





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