The Astral dimension

[Piero]

3 minutes ago, Mr H said:

Yes William Blake puts it perfectly. To add science can only measure phenomenal experience, and science is limited by the 5 senses and human mind. It cannot speak about anything prior to mind arising. Nor can it speak about the illusiory world with definitive accuracy - if an alien came here with 20 senses and a different mind it might measure things differently and come up with a different science. The fact science always evolves gives an indication it's not absolutely correct. Nonetheless it's a very useful tool and discipline for us to have.

I just wanted to clarify what definition I was using in our previous discussion about "space" because it may have not been very clear. I think we're on the same page about the limitation of science.

 

[Mr H]

20 minutes ago, Piero said:

I just wanted to clarify what definition I was using in our previous discussion about "space" because it may have not been very clear. I think we're on the same page about the limitation of science.

 

Ty.

 

And in your thinking how is it possible to have dimensionless space? To me it's a little confusing.

 

My understanding of space is, it's a dimension. So if we're talking about dimensionless "experience" or rather, being, to be more precise. In my thinking space does not appear. It's difficult to comprehend because our mind is constructed with the dimensions of space. So I'm just wondering if you could speak a bit more about the dimensionless space? 

[Piero]

Just now, Mr H said:

Ty.

 

And in your thinking how is it possible to have dimensionless space? To me it's a little confusing.

 

My understanding of space is, it's a dimension. So if we're talking about dimensionless "experience" or rather, being, to be more precise. In my thinking space does not appear. It's difficult to comprehend because our mind is constructed with the dimensions of space. So I'm just wondering if you could speak a bit more about the dimensionless space? 

I'm glad you've asked the question. In our original conversation, I was referring to a philosophical definition of space-- a space that's a "dimensionless experience". In other words, a space beyond time--a space that's not interdependent on time.

 

If we arrive in pure consciousness, we would not be in three dimensional reality, but we would still have extent in every direction, otherwise we'd be constricted to a very tight single point with no space for our essential spirit to explore or manoeuvre. We'd be in another dimension of space where the rules of three dimensional space don't apply.

 

 

[Mr H]

29 minutes ago, Piero said:

 

If we arrive in pure consciousness, we would not be in three dimensional reality, but we would still have extent in every direction, otherwise we'd be constricted to a very tight single point with no space for our essential spirit to explore or manoeuvre. We'd be in another dimension of space where the rules of three dimensional space don't apply.

 

 

It's an interesting take. It is different to my understanding and experience. Not to say I'm right and you're wrong.

 

But to explain my position. I would suggest that if we speak absolute truth, i.e. from the point of view of pure consciousness. Then there are no real souls and there is no such thing as experience or existence 

 

To explain how I get to this position. For something to know, or experience, it has to divide into subject object. If we say, which is my position, all there is, is consciousness or "God", then this process of separation would not be possible. Because what would it split itself into? That would imply the existence of something other than God or pure consciousness. This is why I speak of illusory experiences, because it seems like consciousness is separating itself into souls, and humans, but this is just an illusion or dream. What can we say about the "experience" of pure consciousness? Nothing at all. Just silence....

 

Edit: thinking about it I can see how your model can work as a stepping stone or bridge from pure consciousness to how it arrives a

In the illusiory world.

Edited April 29 by Mr H

[Piero]

1 hour ago, Mr H said:

It's an interesting take. It is different to my understanding and experience. Not to say I'm right and you're wrong.

 

But to explain my position. I would suggest that if we speak absolute truth, i.e. from the point of view of pure consciousness. Then there are no real souls and there is no such thing as experience or existence 

 

To explain how I get to this position. For something to know, or experience, it has to divide into subject object. If we say, which is my position, all there is, is consciousness or "God", then this process of separation would not be possible. Because what would it split itself into? That would imply the existence of something other than God or pure consciousness. This is why I speak of illusory experiences, because it seems like consciousness is separating itself into souls, and humans, but this is just an illusion or dream. What can we say about the "experience" of pure consciousness? Nothing at all. Just silence....

 

Edit: thinking about it I can see how your model can work as a stepping stone or bridge from pure consciousness to how it arrives a

In the illusiory world.

I'm beginning to understand more clearly your take on consciousness. Would you say that what you've described is solipsistic?

 

[Mr H]

19 minutes ago, Piero said:

I'm beginning to understand more clearly your take on consciousness. Would you say that what you've described is solipsistic?

 

I can see how you arrived at that question. But the answer is no. To explain.

 

My definition of solipsism is that only my mind exists or one mind.

 

I suggest that pure consciousness is not mind. We cannot really even say too much about it.

 

Which leaves us with the relative view of being a subject and object.

 

From this pov. It is clear there are 8 billion different apparent minds all sharing the same world experience. The illusion or world doesn't just appear in my personal mind.

 

I do sense that these 8 billion minds get reduced as we enter different dimensions, to collective consciousness mind or minds. 

 

The way this model sometimes gets confused with solipsism is because in the ultimate analysis there is only one entity, let's call it God. But we cannot say that this entity is made of mind, that is a superimposition of our imagination and limitation.

 

Edit: QU for folks who believe in real separate entities. If consciousness or God or infinite field really does separate what is it separating into? Another God or infinite field? Then we arrive at the same problem and conclusion...

Edited April 29 by Mr H

[Piero]

1 minute ago, Mr H said:

I can see how you arrived at that question. But the answer is no. To explain.

 

My definition of solipsism is that only my mind exists or one mind.

 

I suggest that pure consciousness is not mind. We cannot really even say too much about it.

 

Which leaves us with the relative view of being a subject and object.

 

From this pov. It is clear there are 8 billion different apparent minds all sharing the same world experience. The illusion or world doesn't just appear in my personal mind.

 

I do sense that these 8 billion minds get reduced as we enter different dimensions, to collective consciousness mind or minds. 

 

The way this model sometimes gets confused with solipsism is because in the ultimate analysis there is only one entity, let's call it God. But we cannot say that this entity is made of mind, that is a superimposition of our imagination and limitation.

So there is room in your outlook for other individual minds or centres of experience?

 

 

 

[Mr H]

Just now, Piero said:

So there is room in your outlook for other individual minds or centres of experience?

 

 

 

Indeed. I should probably stop speaking about from pov of pure consciousness, because we can't really say anything. And only speak of our experience here in the illusion.

 

Absolutely. In this illusion there are 8 billion different body minds having billions of experiences. Even speaking at this level I hesitate to say separate minds rather than different minds. Who decides where one thing ends and another begins? Isn't everything interconnected essentially from scientific pov?

 

But yes if only my mind existed then we'd all be hanging out naked somewhere on a beach, smoking a cigar watching the NBA!

[Piero]

3 minutes ago, Mr H said:

Indeed. I should probably stop speaking about from pov of pure consciousness, because we can't really say anything. And only speak of our experience here in the illusion.

 

Absolutely. In this illusion there are 8 billion different body minds having billions of experiences. Even speaking at this level I hesitate to say separate minds rather than different minds. Who decides where one thing ends and another begins? Isn't everything interconnected essentially from scientific pov?

 

But yes if only my mind existed then we'd all be hanging out naked somewhere on a beach, smoking a cigar watching the NBA!

It seems my view isn't any different, except I also refer to "room" as being "space", but not in the scientific understanding of the world.

 

[Origin]

On 4/29/2025 at 5:52 PM, Mr H said:

 

It is clear there are 8 billion different apparent minds all sharing the same world experience.

I do sense that these 8 billion minds get reduced as we enter different dimensions, to collective consciousness mind or minds. 

 

No. They don't. You are unable to experience anything of what I see on both sides, what is exchanged or revealed.

Utter nonsense. You go to your equals, and there are plenty of them. You couldn't stand my kind because we are the deepest level. That means you won't see what we see on the other side. Or on this side.