The Astral dimension

[Captain Bog Rodge]

anyone know of any stories of anyone that has been there?

[Campion]

It depends what angle of astral dimensions you're interested in. There's been a couple of threads about the reincarnation trap, how the lower 4th dimension is where human souls get recycled back to Earth by the demonic/reptilian beings and how to avoid them.  One of the pioneers of this was Robert Monroe, I'm going to try reading his books when I get the chance. 

https://forum.davidicke.com/index.php?/topic/28255-reincarnation-is-a-trap/  

https://forum.davidicke.com/index.php?/topic/33549-the-reincarnation-trap/  

 

There's some older threads about general astral projection etc, I've found this one with a key word search.

https://forum.davidicke.com/index.php?/topic/5532-astral-explorations/   

 

I've had a couple of experiences of astral projection in the past but didn't get very far or meet other beings, before I came back into my body. It's a subject I've been interested in ever since reading some of the Lobsang Rampa books in my youth (a long time ago lol) but I don't seem to have much talent for it. Perhaps I need to practice it again. 

[Fluke]

On 12/3/2024 at 9:23 AM, Captain Bog Rodge said:

anyone know of any stories of anyone that has been there?

Strange conflict. Written during ww2 by Dennis Wheatley 1941 I believe. Great story about going to sleep, and fighting Nazis in the astral plane. 

 

Can you be more specific? There's thousands of stories and non fiction accounts I can point you to. Was you looking for anything in particular? 

[Captain Bog Rodge]

On 12/3/2024 at 12:43 PM, Campion said:

It depends what angle of astral dimensions you're interested in.

 

 

 

22 hours ago, Fluke said:

 

 

Can you be more specific? There's thousands of stories and non fiction accounts I can point you to. Was you looking for anything in particular? 

Im more interested in those that have visited more like in the body with out near death experence. would like to try it myself

[mammal vs. reptile]

I have no talent for it myself but had a look at the astral projection subreddit to find out what others are reporting.

 

One person reported “shadow entities” and “hooded entities” that “feed on fear” in addition to disembodied spirits.

 

Someone asked them if the astral is the afterlife and they said probably “limbo”.

 

They described the astral as “misty” and “black and white” in appearance.

 

They described encountering “the devil” but thought it was not the real thing and someone else reported their husband regularly encounters “the devil”.

 

I was interested to read this person is a sufferer of sleep paralysis and uses this as their means for entering the astral from the physical, because that is how I did it.

[mammal vs. reptile]

I found an interesting story about a person who astral projected, escaped what they called the matrix, was recaptured, and had their employment terminated the next day out of the blue.

 

I remember coming to and yanking out a bunch of black cords from my body, escaped the facility that was holding me, went on the run, and was later recaptured.

 

Worked for this company for almost 12 years and this came completely out of nowhere. I am now wondering if I bucked the system by escaping and now retribution is being taken against me. Can’t help but feel like the two are connected.

 

This is a fuller account of the facility.

 

All I remember is coming to in a facility, mostly metal surroundings, and as I took in my surroundings, I instinctively started pulling these black cord/wires/tubes from my arms, legs, chest, etc. I even remember thinking that some of the tube pieces were still inside my arms and that I hadn’t fully pulled them all out. I tried to stealthily navigate through the facility, but at one point a scientist saw me and alerted others. Was chased by a guard, made it down a flight of stairs to the 12th floor (I remember seeing the number 12 above the doorway) and when I went through it I was outside on a platform above water with a tall metallic facility behind me. There was a similar building to the left side not too far off as well. My only escape was to jump, which I did. Thankfully the water wasn’t that far down. Am guessing that the platform was 2 levels above sea level and that there were 10 more below, hence the 12th floor. These facilities were somewhat close to the shoreline, so I made my way there and proceeded to go on the lam.

 

Just in case you people are wondering what “on the lam” means, it means on the run from the police. I had to look it up.

 

Just thought would share this story because thought you people might find it interesting and am interested to hear opinions on it.

 

I make not a lot of it, although interesting. Sounds very similar to The Matrix movie plot but interestingly, this person, when another poster suggested they had been watching the movie and had primed their mind, they denied seeing the movie in many years.

[mammal vs. reptile]

This person astral projected and was taken in a ship, by what appears to be positive extraterrestrials. Without repeating the whole story, what interested me was this comment.

 

I could see the planet, and around it was a green, wavy grid like energy gently pulsing and wrapping the globe.

 

And then someone else wrote in response:

 

The green grid pre formation, the creative potential, is an inner mental lock in illusion, a field to create.

 

But I thought this was interesting because “a field to create” sounds like the astral because that is how it works, it is a field to create, think about dreams for example where imagination comes to life. But they described it as a “mental lock”, and this sounds like the astral prison wall and you are not supposed to go beyond it, perhaps even the ring pass not.

 

In case you people are wondering, I looked this up to be clear, the ring pass not in Theosophy is described as a circle that separates the world of matter from the world of spirit.

 

The other thing that is interesting is the colour green, which makes me think to The Matrix movie, where a green filter was applied. Without jumping to conclusions, it is possible the makers of the movie consciously knew or maybe it was a subconscious knowing.

 

 

This morning, I read Chapter 5 of The Dream. In it, David touches upon the idea of the ring pass not and has some interesting intuitions about sleep on page 119 and how this might tie into the reincarnation cycle. It is fascinating but is it true? If it is, those in on it are really doing a number on us.

[Origin]

Colours don't play a role because you don't perceive it from the meat suit perspective. Perspectives are warped into monumental proportions. The highest mountains are miniscule by comparison. Processes are perceptible. If you have seen it many times, you will recognise it from a different perspective than NDE/OBE. Translucent agglomerations will shape themselves in front of you. At some point, no consideration is given to whether it upsets you or not. One of the main characteristics is the loss of orientation as it is an exotic medium. For the vast majority there will be just one direction, but some will know because they have completed preparation for further tasks. 

[mammal vs. reptile]

Been lurking the astral projection subreddit. Very interesting.

 

In one thread someone asked, what is the point of it? People said stuff like, I learned to control my emotions and thoughts better and spirituality shit, spiritual growth, you know what they are like: no offence to those people, just beginning to think spirituality, the search for enlightenment, is a false belief in the same way that science is for the materialists. But I thought to myself, there is no point to it, really, except for a bit of fun: if being chased by demons is your idea of fun. So, what is the astral?

 

Someone else posted this:

 

When I exit my body into a projection, it can be a very intense and tangible experience. It feels like I am a piece of playdough and when my astral body gets up out of my physical body I feel like I'm stretching the playdough until it rips in two. That is the best way I could possibly describe it. I am playdough apparently.

 

This is very interesting and is my experience also, on the few occasions have done it and remembered it. Tangible, painful even. But I think this could be profound because why is it so difficult to astral project? Stretching and ripping in two does not sound very natural.

 

In another thread someone posted this:

 

Since, objects are first materialized in the astral plane before they become physical reality, I wonder if we can go to astral plane and think about the object and create it and infuse it with enough energy so that it materializes quickly in physical plane.

 

This is also interesting because it opens the possibility that the astral is an artificial creation medium, is what am thinking. Like the playdough described above.

 

 

Reading David’s Reality Trilogy which has got me thinking, you, your consciousness is somehow anchored to the soul and the soul is fake, which is why spirituality is a scam. When you die, your consciousness that is anchored to the soul, remains trapped in the astral. After a life of lived trauma, little me is vulnerable and afraid, and possibly further traumatised after encountering “the valley of the shadow of death” in the astral. After being scared shitless in the astral, the comfort of the white light, an experience of artificial love and perhaps the illusion of loved ones, is irresistible.

 

What happens next is the negative extraterrestrials or an astral artificial intelligence, who have tricked you in this way, using technology push a button and send your fake soul (and therefore your consciousness) back into the simulation, in a new body, for the next life of lived trauma and programmed existence.

Edited April 9 by mammal vs. reptile
formatting

[mammal vs. reptile]

I became aware of myself astrally travelling in my sleep last night or this morning. It was probably shortly after falling asleep.

 

What happened was, I “saw” nothing, it was “mist” and was above my sleeping body travelling at high speed.

 

Fear got the better of me because I felt out of control, like a child driving a Ferrari blindfolded.

 

I could have continued but made the decision to return to my body. I “said” “fuck with me and you are fucked”, and I meant it, at which point I regained control and willed myself back down. I had to assert myself in order take control of the situation.

 

I was freaking out about not being able to breathe oxygen.

[mammal vs. reptile]

The Astral: Lower, Middle, and Upper

 

THE "LOWER ASTRAL" IS THE "LAND OF NIGHTMARES" AND IS POPULATED BY DECEASED HUMANS WHO RESONATE WITH VIOLENCE AND PSYCHOTIC BEHAVIOR.

THE "MIDDLE ASTRAL" IS THE AFTERLIFE. IT LOOKS THE SAME AS OUR PHYSICAL DIMENSION WITH HOUSES AND BUILDINGS.

THE "UPPER ASTRAL" IS THE FAKE "KINGDOM OF HEAVEN". IT LOOKS BEAUTIFUL AND IS USED TO CON THE DEEPLY RELIGIOUS AND EXTREMELY CLEAN LIVING. IT IS ALMOST ALWAYS SHOWN TO PEOPLE HAVING THE "NEAR DEATH EXPERIENCE". THE TARGETED HUMAN IS ALWAYS TOLD "THEY ARE NOT YET WORTHY TO STAY IN THE KINGDOM OF HEAVEN". THIS IS TOTAL BULLSHIT. IT IS A COMPLETE ARCHON SCAM.

 

GRANDPA DREAMED OF HEAVENLY REST. HE GOT DEMONIC HELL AND FORCED REINCARNATION.

[mammal vs. reptile]

Electrical Shocks Erase Memories in the Astral Afterlife

 

THIS WAS A VERY BIG TOPIC RECENTLY ON THE REDDIT ASTRAL PROJECTION SUB.

NUMEROUS PEOPLE SAW THIS BRUTAL HORROR BEING DONE DURING ASTRAL TRAVEL. THESE PEOPLE WERE INDIVIDUALS AND HAD TRAVELED INTO THE ASTRAL AFTERLIFE ON SEPARATE OCCASIONS.

EACH ONE OF THESE ASTRAL TRAVELERS WERE ABLE TO SNEAK INTO AN AFTERLIFE AREA THAT IS CONSIDERED COMPLETELY OFF LIMITS.

WHAT THEY SAW WAS BEYOND HORRIFYING: DECEASED HUMANS WERE STRAPPED DOWN AND HAD ELECTRODES ATTACHED TO THEM.

THEY DECEASED ARE SUBJECTED TO A SERIES OF SADISTIC AND BRUTAL MASSIVE ELECTRICAL SHOCKS TO ERASE ALL MEMORIES TO PREPARE THE HUMAN VICTIM FOR REINCARNATION INTO SLAVERY.

THOSE WHO FIGHT THE PROCESS ARE SUBJECTED TO MORE AND MORE HORRIBLY INTENSE SESSIONS OF THIS PSYCHOTIC TORTURE UNTIL THEY ARE COMPLETELY BROKEN AND ALL MEMORY HAS BEEN ERASED FROM THE HUMAN VICTIM.

ONCE AGAIN; THE SO CALLED "HIGHER BEINGS" WHO DEMAND THIS HORRIBLY CRUEL PROCEDURE ARE PARASITIC SATANISTS.

THEY ARE THE PSYCHOTIC EVIL ARCHONS WHO HAVE MANIPULATED AND HERDED HUMANITY INTO ENDLESS SLAVERY.

YOU ARE THEIR VICTIMS...

 

GRANDPA DREAMED OF HEAVENLY REST. HE GOT DEMONIC HELL AND FORCED REINCARNATION.

 

[Mr H]

A question someone may ask, why do you wanna go off to an astral dimension, when there's plenty of stuff to explore in this dimension?

[Campion]

6 hours ago, Mr H said:

A question someone may ask, why do you wanna go off to an astral dimension, when there's plenty of stuff to explore in this dimension?

 

People want to know what happens when they die, and and it looks like going to the astral is a likely option.  But yeah, it seems a shame to miss out on what's available here while we're alive, if we're going to end up in the astral anyway. 

[Mr H]

13 minutes ago, Campion said:

 

People want to know what happens when they die, and and it looks like going to the astral is a likely option.  But yeah, it seems a shame to miss out on what's available here while we're alive, if we're going to end up in the astral anyway. 

It's the only thing we're guaranteed to experience

[mammal vs. reptile]

13 hours ago, Mr H said:

A question someone may ask, why do you wanna go off to an astral dimension, when there's plenty of stuff to explore in this dimension?

 

YOU ARE IN THE MATRIX:

 

A POWERFUL RESISTANCE FORCE MUST BE DEVELOPED IN THE ASTRAL AFTERLIFE. THIS WILL BE MOSTLY DECEASED HUMANS BUT LIVING ASTRAL TRAVELERS CAN REALLY HELP OUT. I AM ALWAYS TRYING.

PEOPLE NEED TO UNDERSTAND THAT THEIR DECEASED FAMILY AND FRIENDS ARE IN A DESPERATE SCENARIO. THE DECEASED ARE TORTURED DURING THE MEMORY ERASE PROCESS. THIS NEEDS TO STOP.

ALL ROADS LEAD TO THIS RESEARCH. THE ARCHONS AND THE AFTERLIFE IS THE "ULTIMATE CONSPIRACY".

 

GRANDPA DREAMED OF HEAVENLY REST. HE GOT DEMONIC HELL AND FORCED REINCARNATION., p. 40

 

[Mr H]

1 hour ago, mammal vs. reptile said:

 

YOU ARE IN THE MATRIX:

 

A POWERFUL RESISTANCE FORCE MUST BE DEVELOPED IN THE ASTRAL AFTERLIFE. THIS WILL BE MOSTLY DECEASED HUMANS BUT LIVING ASTRAL TRAVELERS CAN REALLY HELP OUT. I AM ALWAYS TRYING.

PEOPLE NEED TO UNDERSTAND THAT THEIR DECEASED FAMILY AND FRIENDS ARE IN A DESPERATE SCENARIO. THE DECEASED ARE TORTURED DURING THE MEMORY ERASE PROCESS. THIS NEEDS TO STOP.

ALL ROADS LEAD TO THIS RESEARCH. THE ARCHONS AND THE AFTERLIFE IS THE "ULTIMATE CONSPIRACY".

 

GRANDPA DREAMED OF HEAVENLY REST. HE GOT DEMONIC HELL AND FORCED REINCARNATION., p. 40

 

Respectfully I don't see any evidence for this.

[mammal vs. reptile]

1 hour ago, Mr H said:

Respectfully I don't see any evidence for this.

 

For whatever reason, the information linked has captivated me.

 

For the backstory, I was reading David’s Reality Trilogy first. I ordered the books then joined the forum to talk about the books. During the process of reading the books, I began researching astral travel, and found this source of information that is strong corroboration for David’s reincarnation trap theory. That is why I post it here.

 

I am looking for more evidence because this is one person’s experience; and the astral is a subjective experience, as far as I have read about it. At the same time, I am looking into training myself in astral travel. However, my feeling is, I may not succeed because not mentally strong enough and lack courage. (I am a mess, really, my life is not good.)

 

As far as I can tell, YOU ARE IN THE MATRIX believes The Matrix movie plot is literal truth rather than figurative. To this point, and I still do, I interpret the movie as figurative and see the simulation wavefield as an expression of consciousness, not the result of the processing power of a supercomputer. However, I do feel this is not base reality; but that does not mean base reality is submerged in a cylinder of goo in a dystopian science fiction future.

 

To be honest, I was lying awake in bed the other night after smoking three (small) joints, shaking uncontrollably about the implications of what have been reading. (The only reason I smoke is I find it helps me with my practise of metaphysics (at the level of the aura); but it also sends me towards paranoid schizophrenia if I do too much of it, at which point I stop doing it and take a break. Right now, am taking a break.) It is horrific.

 

Once I finish up reading The Reveal, my intention is to get back on with my life. (I have gotten sidetracked with this.) I really cannot provide an opinion of my own, this is not my experience, but the information linked is certainly resonating with me. I see it as relevant to David’s reincarnation trap theory and that is why I post it here.

Edited April 23 by mammal vs. reptile
just to be clear

[Mr H]

16 minutes ago, mammal vs. reptile said:

 

For whatever reason, the information linked has captivated me.

 

For the backstory, I was reading David’s Reality Trilogy first. I ordered the books then joined the forum to talk about the books. During the process of reading the books, I began researching astral travel, and found this source of information that is strong corroboration for David’s reincarnation trap theory. That is why I post it here.

 

I am looking for more evidence because this is one person’s experience; and the astral is a subjective experience, as far as I have read about it. At the same time, I am looking into training myself in astral travel. However, my feeling is, I may not succeed because not mentally strong enough and lack courage. (I am a mess, really, my life is not good.)

 

As far as I can tell, YOU ARE IN THE MATRIX believes The Matrix movie plot is literal truth rather than figurative. To this point, and I still do, I interpret the movie as figurative and see the simulation wavefield as an expression of consciousness, not the result of the processing power of a supercomputer. However, I do feel this is not base reality; but that does not mean base reality is submerged in a cylinder of goo in a dystopian science fiction future.

 

To be honest, I was lying awake in bed the other night after smoking three (small) joints, shaking uncontrollably about the implications of what have been reading. (The only reason I smoke is I find it helps me with my practise of metaphysics (at the level of the aura); but it also sends me towards paranoid schizophrenia if I do too much of it, at which point I stop doing it and take a break. Right now, am taking a break.) It is horrific.

 

Once I finish up reading The Reveal, my intention is to get back on with my life. (I have gotten sidetracked with this.) I really cannot provide an opinion of my own, this is not my experience, but the information linked is certainly resonating with me. I see it as relevant to David’s reincarnation trap theory and that is why I post it here.

Firstly, respectfully your assumption about me is wrong. That I am or believe in matrix. I have written literally hundreds of times that this place is an illusory experience. But my models have been built from experience, mainly ones that can be verified and replicated by others, rather than from a movie or book. It varies from how you speak about it. I don't discount what you say, I'm open to it. 

 

Ive had some experience of astral travel myself a few times, via Christ consciousness meditations, sound baths with a master gong healer, by lucid dreaming and via various substances - snake venom ( v good for this) Aya, San Pedro. Maybe if you want to explore one of these and check it out yourself.

 

Yeah I get you with the weed. It does have many benefits and you can go deep into experience. But it can also really fk you up. Stay safe my friend..

[mammal vs. reptile]

No worries, Mr H. Instead of drugs, deep breathing meditation is the plan. Appreciate your kind words.

 

Okay, I guess I did assume everyone on the forums would believe in the simulation matrix idea; but assumed most would see it as a metaphor like I do, as the product of a consciousness, not the product of a supercomputer that was built. So this is interesting because this is a new idea to me.

 

I actually went for a long walk to clear my head because it is all getting to me. (It was either go for a walk or enter into the fetal position and rock back and forth.) And then I felt uneasy about what I posted above.

5 hours ago, mammal vs. reptile said:

As far as I can tell, YOU ARE IN THE MATRIX believes The Matrix movie plot is literal truth rather than figurative. To this point, and I still do, I interpret the movie as figurative and see the simulation wavefield as an expression of consciousness, not the result of the processing power of a supercomputer.

I had a quick look ahead in the thread to double check if that is what they actually think and it appears that they do, which is very interesting. And am looking forward to revisiting that information when I get to it.

 

I also made this comment.

5 hours ago, mammal vs. reptile said:

However, I do feel this is not base reality; but that does not mean base reality is submerged in a cylinder of goo in a dystopian science fiction future.

YOU ARE IN THE MATRIX never went that far. Let me be clear: they did not explicitly say (in the first 40 pages of the thread) that our base reality is how it is portrayed in The Matrix movie. I am going to the trouble of making this clear because do not want to discourage people from reading the thread and nor do I want to discredit the source of the information, who in addition to being an expert at astral travel, is also very well read.

 

I think what happened was, I got my information sources mixed up. I watched a video about the simulation hypothesis that suggested it, and assumed it was a video YOU ARE IN THE MATRIX linked. However, when I checked it was not. Hopefully, do not have to correct myself again.

 

Gone off topic but this is important. To go back on topic, about to listen to Robert Monroe as I do the dishes and chug . . . filtered water.

 

[Origin]

Astro Plane - place of contact and communication. The other Side decides who and when and if you can remember.

Most primitive level: NDE. They are just messengers of hidden information. The story is not the information. 

OBE - The same. Both have no control over what they will see. But OBE has an enhanced experience with the other side. And can increase.

Observer - Who have to go back to the other side... Transcends human experience.

 

Reddit: There are very few Experiencers on Reddit. Real exchange is complicated. 

Youtube: About thirty NDEer tell their stories on an absurd number of channels, and they're always the same. You can choose which one you like the most and believe it.

And an huge number of fake channels that have every answer ready. The questions are provided to make it easier for you. How you can become wise, conquer the universe, become God, whatever...

 

Astro Plane. Everyone has their own version of the construct made up from your own underlying beliefs. Sorry. This version is superimposed on the construct itself. Seeing that yourself is very hard. Everyone has their own guardian that will take care of you. It can appear as a little child to something that doesn't exist in any human depiction. It depends on the level

. 

The ultimate is a whole separate thing. If it makes direct contact it will be an impossible challenge. It knows you and all your secrets, even the ones you can't remember. It has nothing to do with the guardian/protector sessions. What happens there is not mentioned in any scriptures or lore.

 

The truth will always hurt. And it will be unbearably hard. Paradise is for the little ones. You will see it from a different perspective that is not yours. Then there's also the question of whether you understood the reason why you chose to come here and why you can't take any of it with you.

[mammal vs. reptile]

Okay, I do have to correct myself again. It was their linked video, just posted to a different website. In the fictional video, it is very disturbing, this guy takes some kind of special formula of DMT. He finds himself alive in a cylinder with some kind of helmet or mask on, there are grey aliens. He feels like himself, like this is his real life.

 

Unfortunately, cannot edit or delete my posts so have to keep correcting myself. But maybe can pursue this disturbing idea in a new or existing thread about the topic. This thread is about the astral.

 

The Astral

The Astral can be termed the Fourth Dimension if we take the world of matter to be the Third Dimension. These are not on top of each other like a chest of drawers. They share the same space while on different wavelengths in the way analogue TV and radio stations / channels (frequencies) share the same space without interference unless they are very close on the dial. Where is the Astral? You are looking at it all day every day. You know it as ‘empty space’ and it interacts with matter in ways that I will be describing.

The Reveal, p. 110

Edited April 23 by mammal vs. reptile
stupid shit

[Mr H]

On 4/23/2025 at 4:05 PM, mammal vs. reptile said:

 

 

The Astral

The Astral can be termed the Fourth Dimension if we take the world of matter to be the Third Dimension. These are not on top of each other like a chest of drawers. They share the same space while on different wavelengths in the way analogue TV and radio stations / channels (frequencies) share the same space without interference unless they are very close on the dial. Where is the Astral? You are looking at it all day every day. You know it as ‘empty space’ and it interacts with matter in ways that I will be describing.

The Reveal, p. 110

Just my 2 cents. But astral doesn't share space with 3 Rd dimension. Space in pure consciousness does not exist. We can check this out when we take our headsets off for meditation, defined here as experiencing prior to mind.

 

Space is created when you put on the human headset and the 3 dimensions are created. Take off the human headset and we have dimensionless experience. Just pure being.

 

So to see or experience other illusory dimensions, you have to put on a different headset or modify the human headset apparatus, which is why folks use various means to experience them.

Edited April 29 by Mr H

[Piero]

2 hours ago, Mr H said:

Take off the human headset and we have dimensionless experience. Just pure being.

I know we've had this discussion before, but as there a various definitions of space, "dimensionless experience" can be a form of "space" -- a space beyond time. Science only recognises dimensional space, but it can't disprove dimensionless experience, or dimensionless space, which is a reminder of the limited scope of science.

 

Nietzsche wrote, "mathematics would certainly have not come into existence if one had known from the beginning that there was in nature no exactly straight line, no actual circle, no absolute magnitude." William Blake went further by stating: "Art is the tree of life. Science is the tree of death."

 

Science is only able to grasp that which can be measured, wonderfully illustrated by William Blake's painting, "Newton":

 

 

 

 

[Mr H]

39 minutes ago, Piero said:

I know we've had this discussion before, but as there a various definitions of space, "dimensionless experience" can be a form of "space" -- a space beyond time. Science only recognises dimensional space, but it can't disprove dimensionless experience, or dimensionless space, which is a reminder of the limited scope of science.

 

Nietzsche wrote, "mathematics would certainly have not come into existence if one had known from the beginning that there was in nature no exactly straight line, no actual circle, no absolute magnitude." William Blake went further by stating: "Art is the tree of life. Science is the tree of death."

 

Science is only able to grasp that which can be measured, wonderfully illustrated by William Blake's painting, "Newton":

 

 

 

 

Yes William Blake puts it perfectly. To add science can only measure phenomenal experience, and science is limited by the 5 senses and human mind. It cannot speak about anything prior to mind arising. Nor can it speak about the illusiory world with definitive accuracy - if an alien came here with 20 senses and a different mind it might measure things differently and come up with a different science. The fact science always evolves gives an indication it's not absolutely correct. Nonetheless it's a very useful tool and discipline for us to have.