Why do some people don't have an NDE or see nothing?

[Lilymoon]

I'm seeing more and more posts online now of people who have clinically died and claim to have not seen anything. Some have said it was like going into a deep sleep and remember nothing else. 

One guy even said he became atheist because he saw no white light,tunnel, guides...nothing. Just a sensation of "deep sleep".
So what's up with that? 

Stories like this makes me wonder sometimes at the validity of most NDES and makes me wonder if they truly are real or just coming from a dying brain.

When I read posts like this doubt creeps in and makes me question if NDEs,OBES etc are even real.

 

Thoughts? 

[Campion]

I've not had an NDE thankfully, but have had some OBEs in the past.  They all happened when I was lying down in bed so easy to dismiss as a dream, but if so they were a different quality of dream.  They also happened when I'd been doing a lot more meditation than usual, which doesn't prove anything either way except that I probably need to be in a different state of mind for them to occur. 

 

Have you tried to practice having OBEs yourself?  There's instructions around on youtube and  wikihow. Personal experience might make it easier to decide about the reality of them. 

[Mr H]

On 8/9/2024 at 6:40 PM, Lilymoon said:

I'm seeing more and more posts online now of people who have clinically died and claim to have not seen anything. Some have said it was like going into a deep sleep and remember nothing else. 

One guy even said he became atheist because he saw no white light,tunnel, guides...nothing. Just a sensation of "deep sleep".
So what's up with that? 

Stories like this makes me wonder sometimes at the validity of most NDES and makes me wonder if they truly are real or just coming from a dying brain.

When I read posts like this doubt creeps in and makes me question if NDEs,OBES etc are even real.

 

Thoughts? 

I suspect most NDE experience on YouTube are fake.

 

I'm sure there are real NDE experiences too.

 

My understanding is when you die you release DMT same chemical as in Ayahuasca. So you basically trip balls. Which would account for many of the wild NDE experiences you read. Maybe those that had less wild times had less DMT release?

[Campion]

On 8/11/2024 at 5:42 PM, Mr H said:

I suspect most NDE experience on YouTube are fake.

 

I'm sure there are real NDE experiences too.

 

My understanding is when you die you release DMT same chemical as in Ayahuasca. So you basically trip balls. Which would account for many of the wild NDE experiences you read. Maybe those that had less wild times had less DMT release?

 

And when I think about it, all our experiences in everyday life are processed through neuro-transmitters like serotonin, dopamine and others, as well as chemical neurons in the brain. So normality is a chemical trip too, and what does that say about what's real and fake? 

 

It also raises the question of what our experience would be like without a body to give us the 5 senses and brain to process the information, to think and feel, to have memories. If the soul is immaterial, is the afterlife at all comparable to this physical life? 

 

Edited August 12, 2024 by Campion

[Mr H]

8 minutes ago, Campion said:

 

And when I think about it, all our experiences in everyday life are processed through neuro-transmitters like serotonin, dopamine and others, as well as chemical neurons in the brain. So normality is a chemical trip too, and what does that say about what's real and fake? 

 

It also raises the question of what our experience would be like without a body to give us the 5 senses and brain to process the information, to think and feel, to have memories. If the soul is immaterial, is the afterlife at all comparable to this physical life? 

 

 

Everything is both real and fake! I.e. this experience is illusiory. Our particular illusiory experience is dictated by the equipment we were given. An extremely limited body and mind. The world would look very different for an experiencer using different apparatus to us. Our mind is not even capable of imagining.

 

YOu do actually have that experience every night when you go into deep sleep, so you are able to answer that second question already.

 

I'm still not 100% sure what is meant when people speak of souls. But we cannot speak too much about after lives.

 

I can tell about my 1st trip on Ayahuasca which is as close to death and afterlife you can have in waking human state. I felt like I was in some sort of giant "headset" but it was like a giant pod. When the movies stopped playing I was pushed out onto a stage and told to bow. Then every single person in my life was in the audience giving me a round of applause for my performance here, saying what a great job I had done. And I was going around saying, can't believe you were in on it! A tremendous celebration....

 

could be nothing like that of course, if it is, would be good fun

[Avoiceinthecrowd]

Some anecdotal evidence of a near death experience defy the theory that what is seen is the product of  oxygen-deprived decaying neurological structures in the brain.

 

Stories like the blind girl that saw the attempts to save her life from above herself looking down, describing precisely where a surgical instrument fell on the floor.

 

Congenitally-deaf persons hearing the dialogue of the surgeons racing to save them.

 

Sure, maybe a deception, but I wonder who benefits from making up stories like those.

 

Are NDE stories so marketable and the money to be made so enticing that tons of fake stories like the ones I cited as an example are put out there?

 

Who benefits in either case, non are conclusive?

 

I can understand fake ufo stuff because there's money and plenty of interest but most are so paralyzed with fear at the idea of death that they prefer remaining in limbo and not questioning that too much.

 

In my whole life I may have known of half a dozen written works on NDEs and mostly from the same authors. Each has somehow included in some form or another a disclaimer that near death experience may be the result of a dying brain coughing out random memory locations.

 

I would need to see evidence that the theory of entering a luminous portal into a higher dimension is proven false before I look seriously at the other ideas on this subject.

 

Could be that after the tunnel, that bright light they see is the reanimation laboratory where they lie in stasis undergoing the transition back to the world they come from. Who knows, speculation runs wild.

 

The whole question remains unanswered in any compelling way since the dawn of man. If we could solve it here in this thread there is a Nobel Prize waiting 

 

The implications would be mindboggling.

 

 

Edited August 14, 2024 by Avoiceinthecrowd

[Avoiceinthecrowd]

To make things worse we can't reverse-engineer a birth to find out

 

"My friend has a baby. I'm recording all the noises he makes so later I can ask him what he meant"

- Steve Wright

 

 

 

 

Edited August 14, 2024 by Avoiceinthecrowd

[Avoiceinthecrowd]

On 8/12/2024 at 5:31 PM, Mr H said:

I'm still not 100% sure what is meant when people speak of souls.

 

A machine is said to be devoid of a soul. A machine cannot feel emotions.

 

It would appear to me that having a soul is intimately linked with an ability to feel emotions and distinguishes man from machine.

 

Emotions escape attempts at exposing the mechanism that produces them much like the soul escapes attempts at exposing it's composition or even the bridge between it and the physical vessel.

[Mr H]

25 minutes ago, Avoiceinthecrowd said:

To make things worse we can't reverse-engineer a birth to find out

 

 

 

 

 

If life were in reverse by George Carlin

 

“The most unfair thing about life is the way it ends.

I mean, life is tough. It takes up a lot of your time.

What do you get at the end of it?

A death.

What’s that, a bonus?

I think the life cycle is all backwards.

You should die first; get it out of the way.

Then you live in an old age home.

You get kicked out when you’re too young, you get a gold watch,

you go to work.

You work forty years until you’re young enough to enjoy your retirement.

You drink alcohol, you party,

you get ready for high school.

You go to grade school, you become a kid, you play, you have no responsibilities, you become a little baby, you go back into the womb,

You spend your last nine months floating…

Then you finish off as an orgasm.”

[Avoiceinthecrowd]

2 minutes ago, Mr H said:

If life were in reverse by George Carlin

 

“The most unfair thing about life is the way it ends.

I mean, life is tough. It takes up a lot of your time.

What do you get at the end of it?

A death.

What’s that, a bonus?

I think the life cycle is all backwards.

You should die first; get it out of the way.

Then you live in an old age home.

You get kicked out when you’re too young, you get a gold watch,

you go to work.

You work forty years until you’re young enough to enjoy your retirement.

You drink alcohol, you party,

you get ready for high school.

You go to grade school, you become a kid, you play, you have no responsibilities, you become a little baby, you go back into the womb,

You spend your last nine months floating…

Then you finish off as an orgasm.”

 

Carlin was terrific. I often wonder the things he would have said had he lived on. All those laughs we will never have. But fortunately a part of him lives on, a virtual immortality.

[Mr H]

8 minutes ago, Avoiceinthecrowd said:

 

A machine is said to be devoid of a soul. A machine cannot feel emotions.

 

It would appear to me that having a soul is intimately linked with an ability to feel emotions and distinguishes man from machine.

 

Emotions escape attempts at exposing the mechanism that produces them much like the soul escapes attempts at exposing it's composition or even the bridge between it and the physical vessel.

Interesting thanks. So I guess other animals have souls too?

 

Personally I find emotions net net an hinderence to peaceful experience. And is largely fuel for entities to feed from. You don't get much.done here if you pay attention to emotions.

 

Edit to be more precise attachment to emotions.

Edited August 14, 2024 by Mr H

[Avoiceinthecrowd]

7 minutes ago, Mr H said:

Then you finish off as an orgasm.”

 

More than once, while enjoying a historical motion picture set in a regal setting where nobilty must consume the marriage on their first night. Often, onlookers ask if the king experiened the "Little Death."

 

The little death was climax or orgasm. Somewhere someone got the idea that dying was like climaxing. NDEs from that period perhaps? 

 

 

[Avoiceinthecrowd]

8 minutes ago, Mr H said:

So I guess other animals have souls too?.

 

When I put up my post I suspected someone would attribute a soul to their pet Respectfully, those things are pure AI I was trying to avoid elaborating that not to offend pet and animal lovers.

 

[Avoiceinthecrowd]

19 minutes ago, Mr H said:

You don't get much.done here if you pay attention to emotions.

 

A musician might disagree. Most  craftsman in every field of human endoever talk about how they 'feel' the way things will turn out. Without emotions there would be no intercourse and no kids and no future. 

 

Edited August 14, 2024 by Avoiceinthecrowd

[Mr H]

9 minutes ago, Avoiceinthecrowd said:

 

A musician might disagree. Most  craftsman in every field of human endoever talk about how they 'feel' the way things will turn out. Without emotions there would be no intercourse and no kids and no future. 

 

Yes that is a point and why earlier I edited to say attachment to emotions is more problematic to be precise, rather than an expression of.

 

As a side note in the last point, people can still reproduce without emotions and experience continues just fine without humans...

[chriswalker]

I theorise that those who do not have an NDE, 82% of those who clinically die, are NPCs and are thus soulless. Some theorise that the ratio of NPCs to souled beings is far lower than that. I know 1 person personally who had a NDE when a bus fell on him whilst repairing it and my friend's sister, whom I do not know, had 1 during childbirth. I have personally used the Monroe Institute's Gateway Experience tapes to induce an OOBE. 

Edited August 24, 2024 by chriswalker

[Mr H]

Hmm I had a thought about these NDERS claims.

 

They say you have a life review at the end.

 

But also they claim that you meticulously plan the entire thing beforehand...

 

So if you planned it all, why do you need to see it, if you know what it is? And what could you learn from something where it's all been planned anyway? 

[Campion]

1 hour ago, Mr H said:

Hmm I had a thought about these NDERS claims.

 

They say you have a life review at the end.

 

But also they claim that you meticulously plan the entire thing beforehand...

 

So if you planned it all, why do you need to see it, if you know what it is? And what could you learn from something where it's all been planned anyway? 

  

Yes, there's a lot of oddities which suggest things aren't so simple. There are some other threads going into the idea of a soul trap and reincarnation trap which I think do make a lot of sense, although of course definite proof is hard to come by. Supposedly we shouldn't go to the white light or cooperate with the life review, which is followed by a memory wipe before the next reincarnation. 

 

The memory wipe explains why we (most of us) don't remember any of the preceding time before this life. But if life is supposed to be a school to learn lessons, why have a memory wipe so we forget all about it?  And if people have their memories wiped then our ancestors wouldn't remember us to have those emotional reunions to love-bomb us into entering the light. 

[Mr H]

28 minutes ago, Campion said:

  

Yes, there's a lot of oddities which suggest things aren't so simple. There are some other threads going into the idea of a soul trap and reincarnation trap which I think do make a lot of sense, although of course definite proof is hard to come by. Supposedly we shouldn't go to the white light or cooperate with the life review, which is followed by a memory wipe before the next reincarnation. 

 

The memory wipe explains why we (most of us) don't remember any of the preceding time before this life. But if life is supposed to be a school to learn lessons, why have a memory wipe so we forget all about it?  And if people have their memories wiped then our ancestors wouldn't remember us to have those emotional reunions to love-bomb us into entering the light. 

Oh man you just confused me even more

 

But yeah so true. Awesome points...

 

Yes I think if you take the Gnostic stance the soul trap theory kinda makes sense.