Original spiritual experiences

[Mr H]

I was observing today. That every spiritual experience I have heard of, or had, is themed upon already known archetypal themes, established philosophies and myths.

 

The experience itself will have a different flavor or story. But will never be original.

 

Experiences may include, ones with aliens, religious figures, gods, philosophical knowledge etc. but it is never anything new at it's core, more a regurgitation of already established knowledge in the collective psyche taking slightly different forms.

 

I wonder if anyone has actually had an original "spiritual" experience before? One that was unknown and brought to the light?

[Campion]

Do we stay within our existing paradigms when we have a spiritual experience or break free of our conditioning into something genuinely free and new?  At one time I used to be into J Krishnamurti's work, which was about living in the truth and where the only real spiritual experiences are ones free from memory and conditioning. But he wasn't really a 'teacher' and give us practices to get experiences. 

 

I had one experience once which I couldn't fit into my knowledge happened during a meditation retreat, when I lay down on the bed for a rest and drifted upwards into a completely different space like nothing I'd experienced before. I could compare it to some kind of psychedelic trip ot ascending into a heavenly realm or something but that's just trying to describe it to someone else after the event. 

 

We could say that non-dual experience is outside description because archetypes, philosophies and myths are dual as soon as they're verbalised. Ideas like God or enlightenment or whatever are perhaps philosophies created after the event of the originator having an authentic experience and trying to explain it to other people who haven't had such a mystical experience but in terms they do understand from their culture. 

 

Taking this a step further, why not say that ALL here-and-now experience is an original spiritual experience, but we are accustomed to immediately interpret it according to our conditioning and indoctrination. 

[BornFreeNowAgain]

Is it because there are no unique Spiritual experiences, or is it that humans lack the range of language necessary to explain those experiences? We are very limited in how we describe things, because one, in order to make sense of any experiences we need to draw on ideas/concepts/archetypes to describe those, but also we are often attempting to describe these TO OTHERS which means we must attempt to enter the 'World' of another to help them to understand. 

 

So perhaps it is not that there are no unique experiences, but that the language required to conceptualize is primitive and not yet formed well enough to put into words. It may also be that as humans we are limited in what experiences are open to us, certainly this is true in 3D and even in 4D or 5D they are limited. Maybe there are no unique experiences because you would have evolved out of this 'realm' to be able to experience it? If you are here in 3D you have not evolved enough to experience what we would consider 'unique'. If we are separate fragments of the whole, then none of us are special or unique and so unique experiences would not exist anyway.  

[Mr H]

On 7/8/2024 at 11:48 PM, Campion said:

 

 

Taking this a step further, why not say that ALL here-and-now experience is an original spiritual experience, but we are accustomed to immediately interpret it according to our conditioning and indoctrination. 

That is a truly fascinating approach

[Mr H]

On 7/9/2024 at 4:05 AM, BornFreeNowAgain said:

Is it because there are no unique Spiritual experiences, or is it that humans lack the range of language necessary to explain those experiences? We are very limited in how we describe things, because one, in order to make sense of any experiences we need to draw on ideas/concepts/archetypes to describe those, but also we are often attempting to describe these TO OTHERS which means we must attempt to enter the 'World' of another to help them to understand. 

 

So perhaps it is not that there are no unique experiences, but that the language required to conceptualize is primitive and not yet formed well enough to put into words. It may also be that as humans we are limited in what experiences are open to us, certainly this is true in 3D and even in 4D or 5D they are limited. Maybe there are no unique experiences because you would have evolved out of this 'realm' to be able to experience it? If you are here in 3D you have not evolved enough to experience what we would consider 'unique'. If we are separate fragments of the whole, then none of us are special or unique and so unique experiences would not exist anyway.  

Excellent point about language....

 

 

[Untun]

Be not carried about with divers and strange doctrines. For it is a good thing that the heart be established with grace; not with meats, which have not profited them that have been occupied therein.

[Campion]

1 hour ago, Untun said:

Be not carried about with divers and strange doctrines. For it is a good thing that the heart be established with grace; not with meats, which have not profited them that have been occupied therein.

 

Is that a quote from the Bible?  I don't understand, would you explain it please? 

[Untun]

1 hour ago, Campion said:

 

Is that a quote from the Bible?  I don't understand, would you explain it please? 

And what shall I more say? for the time would fail me to tell of Gedeon, and of Barak, and of Samson, and of Jephthae; of David also and Samuel, and of the prophets: Who through faith subdued kingdoms, wrought righteousness, obtained promises, stopped the mouths of lions. Quenched the violence of fire, escaped the edge of the sword, out of weakness were made strong, waxed valiant in fight, turned to flight the armies of the aliens.

Edited July 14, 2024 by Untun

[Mr H]

Just vectoring off slightly....

 

Sorta becoming apparent that a lot of our experiences are not even original.

 

I see this from two perspectives. Firstly a slightly zoomed out perspective. Whatever this place is. It's made out of certain amount of "stuff" and everything we experience can only ever be made out of the same "stuff" all we can do is jig around a bit with configurations, from H to H20. But always the same stuff essentially.....

 

It's the same with everything we see can only ever be made from the shapes in metatrons cube. We can never see new original shapes.

 

And on a more personal level, it is extremely difficult I would suggest to have original thoughts. These again are already there and we share modify slightly and pass them on....

 

 

[Eagle Eye]

I like the idea that God is experiencing life through each of us. So that would mean that for every experience that you have, and for every one that I have- God gets to see what we see through our own eyes and other senses. It is as if he plucked pieces of himself off when he made each one of us for this specific purpose. This would also mean that how we treat each other is how we treat God himself. We are all his spiritual experience. Each one of us, are we not original?

 

[lobster]

On 7/15/2024 at 1:49 AM, Mr H said:

Just vectoring off slightly....

 

Sorta becoming apparent that a lot of our experiences are not even original.

 

I see this from two perspectives. Firstly a slightly zoomed out perspective. Whatever this place is. It's made out of certain amount of "stuff" and everything we experience can only ever be made out of the same "stuff" all we can do is jig around a bit with configurations, from H to H20. But always the same stuff essentially.....

 

It's the same with everything we see can only ever be made from the shapes in metatrons cube. We can never see new original shapes.

 

And on a more personal level, it is extremely difficult I would suggest to have original thoughts. These again are already there and we share modify slightly and pass them on....

 

 

Yes every thing around us and us are made up of the periodic table, there isn't any other stuff unless we can find some if the missing particles,  but even then it's always going to be a finite amount of stuff making up an infinite amount of stuff

Edited December 28, 2024 by lobster

[lobster]

On 7/15/2024 at 1:49 AM, Mr H said:

Just vectoring off slightly....

 

Sorta becoming apparent that a lot of our experiences are not even original.

 

I see this from two perspectives. Firstly a slightly zoomed out perspective. Whatever this place is. It's made out of certain amount of "stuff" and everything we experience can only ever be made out of the same "stuff" all we can do is jig around a bit with configurations, from H to H20. But always the same stuff essentially.....

 

It's the same with everything we see can only ever be made from the shapes in metatrons cube. We can never see new original shapes.

 

And on a more personal level, it is extremely difficult I would suggest to have original thoughts. These again are already there and we share modify slightly and pass them on....

 

 

But you wrong with shapes there are an infinite number of shapes and we can perceive a infinite number of shapes, there is always a new shape to consider

[Mr H]

20 minutes ago, lobster said:

Yes every thing around us and us are made up of the periodic table, there isn't any other stuff unless we can find some if the missing particles,  but even then it's always going to be a finite amount of stuff making up an infinite amount of stuff

No. This is the materialist view of the world which is in contradistinction to our actual experience. Which says matter was here first and consciousness derives somehow magically out of matter. No one has ever discovered this.

 

In alignment with our actual experience it seems to suggest consciousness was first and everything appears out of that - all the periodic elements etc.

 

Primary stuffs = consciousness (or God or universe whatever you want to call it)

[lobster]

6 minutes ago, Mr H said:

No. This is the materialist view of the world which is in contradistinction to our actual experience. Which says matter was here first and consciousness derives somehow magically out of matter. No one has ever discovered this.

 

In alignment with our actual experience it seems to suggest consciousness was first and everything appears out of that - all the periodic elements etc.

 

Primary stuffs = consciousness (or God or universe whatever you want to call it)

Matter had to be here first or the first man would have nothing to stand on, even the bible agrees this is the correct chronology

 

I'm willing to concede that the physical appearance of matter is a product of our brains, but a matrix of particles on which we stand is a prerequisite 

Edited December 28, 2024 by lobster

[lobster]

10 minutes ago, Mr H said:

No. This is the materialist view of the world which is in contradistinction to our actual experience. Which says matter was here first and consciousness derives somehow magically out of matter. No one has ever discovered this.

 

In alignment with our actual experience it seems to suggest consciousness was first and everything appears out of that - all the periodic elements etc.

 

Primary stuffs = consciousness (or God or universe whatever you want to call it)

Question for you, how have you determined that you are conscious, that to could be an illusion 

[Mr H]

26 minutes ago, lobster said:

Question for you, how have you determined that you are conscious, that to could be an illusion 

If we verify something we can choose to do so via experience. The alternative is by beliefs. I choose experience as it's more certain.

 

It is my experience (and everyones) that primary experience is consciousness or pure knowing. This occurs prior to mind arising. We can experience this by meditation ( no mind). It's not really an experience ( to stand out from) but it's the only language we have for it.

 

Then from pure knowing, all objects are known. So this implies consciousness or pure knowing was first and everything objective comes secondary and appears within it.

[lobster]

23 minutes ago, Mr H said:

If we verify something we can choose to do so via experience. The alternative is by beliefs. I choose experience as it's more certain.

 

It is my experience (and everyones) that primary experience is consciousness or pure knowing. This occurs prior to mind arising. We can experience this by meditation ( no mind). It's not really an experience ( to stand out from) but it's the only language we have for it.

 

Then from pure knowing, all objects are known. So this implies consciousness or pure knowing was first and everything objective comes secondary and appears within it.

So you dont know if your are conscious or not, experience of an illusion isn't really evidence that it's not an illusion 

[Mr H]

8 minutes ago, lobster said:

So you dont know if your are conscious or not, experience of an illusion isn't really evidence that it's not an illusion 

I'm not sure what evidence there is to suggest consciousness is an illusion?

 

 

[lobster]

3 minutes ago, Mr H said:

I'm not sure what evidence there is to suggest consciousness is an illusion?

 

 

I'm not sure what evidence there is,  that it isn't,  which is why I asked the question of you, who seem pretty certain is isn't an illusion , as to how you arrived at that conclusion

 

If there us nothing conclusively either way it will have to go down as a dont know

Edited December 28, 2024 by lobster

[Mr H]

6 minutes ago, lobster said:

I'm not sure what evidence there is,  that it isn't,  which is why I asked the question of you, who seem pretty certain is isn't an illusion , as to how you arrived at that conclusion

 

If there us nothing conclusively either way it will have to go down as a dont know

"The real is changeless. What changes is not real, what is real does not change"nisargadatta maharaj

 

The "experience " of consciousness or pure knowing meets the definition of changeless if you check with your experience. It is always the same in every situation. Like the empty space in the room. This suggests it is real and not an illusion.

 

ALL OBJECTIVE EXPERIENCE is temporal and changes, your mind, the body, molecules,earth, the weather etc. and therefore can be described as illusiory 

[lobster]

9 minutes ago, Mr H said:

"The real is changeless. What changes is not real, what is real does not change"nisargadatta maharaj

 

The "experience " of consciousness or pure knowing meets the definition of changeless if you check with your experience. It is always the same in every situation. Like the empty space in the room. This suggests it is real and not an illusion.

 

ALL OBJECTIVE EXPERIENCE is temporal and changes, your mind, the body, molecules,earth, the weather etc. and therefore can be described as illusiory 

The empty space in a room cant be change less if the room is an illusion, your already said space and time are illusions, but now space is real and change less , this is beginning to sound like your making it up as you go along

 

Non of which deals with the substantive point, which is your identified consciousness as the only fixed point in an illusion universe,  but don't know if consciousness is its self an illusion 

[Thunderbutt]

I refuse to encompass my spiritual experiences within any predefined religion.  My spiritual growth was triggered by the death of my wife in 2021.

 

1:  Was shown the importance of forgiveness and repentance by the sinless one, and how both are required in order to release my soul so that I can grow spiritually.

 

2:  Experienced a penetrating light scan every crevasse of my soul.  This was the first time I'd actually seen my soul, which is shaped like an egg.  This was then quickly followed by an amazing feeling of acceptance, which was the answer to my question on whether or not I was worthy of the proposition that I was imposing.

 

3:  Once my proposition was accepted I was lead down the rabbit hole to discovery, at which point I realized that nothing is as I thought it was, and it was that point where my faith became stronger than the physical world around me, and I was reborn.  I was then given an image of where I would be a year later, and it was perfectly accurate to the T.

 

4:  I have seen the little spirits that convert your addictions to the physical realm into energy.  They are slaves to their masters, and are little spiritual blobs.

 

5:  These spirits hang on you, weighing you down.  On two different occasions during the most trying points in my life, I was on my knees pleading for guidance, this was not of my conscious doing mind you, I stood up and looked to the ground, and could see all these little spirits clinging to my sails.  A spiritual energy blasted out of my eyes just like that big metal machine in the Thor movie, blasting these parasitic spirits and shrinking them to nothing.  I literally heard them crying as a group once they were removed from my soul.  Right after this process was completed I felt what I can only describe as a tube, or tunnel, joining my mind with the sinless one, which lasted several hours.

 

6:  I have learned that all spiritual entities contain a moral signature that can be used to create a firewall and encryption tunnels.

 

7:  I experienced a file upload from my mind into the spirit realm.

 

8:  I have seen a tiny fragment of what exists, for me anyway, and I can only describe what I saw as a massive network.

 

I now understand and am fully on board with the soul trap/farm matrix theory.

Edited January 23 by Thunderbutt

[RobinJ]

On 12/28/2024 at 1:23 PM, lobster said:

Matter had to be here first or the first man would have nothing to stand on, even the bible agrees this is the correct chronology

 

I'm willing to concede that the physical appearance of matter is a product of our brains, but a matrix of particles on which we stand is a prerequisite 

But...we are more than just matter. We create our existence as it happens, matter is the by product.

[Campion]

9 hours ago, Thunderbutt said:

I refuse to encompass my spiritual experiences within any predefined religion.  My spiritual growth was triggered by the death of my wife in 2021.

 

1:  Was shown the importance of forgiveness and repentance by the sinless one, and how both are required in order to release my soul so that I can grow spiritually.

 

2:  Experienced a penetrating light scan every crevasse of my soul.  This was the first time I'd actually seen my soul, which is shaped like an egg.  This was then quickly followed by an amazing feeling of acceptance, which was the answer to my question on whether or not I was worthy of the proposition that I was imposing.

 

3:  Once my proposition was accepted I was lead down the rabbit hole to discovery, at which point I realized that nothing is as I thought it was, and it was that point where my faith became stronger than the physical world around me, and I was reborn.  I was then given an image of where I would be a year later, and it was perfectly accurate to the T.

 

4:  I have seen the little spirits that convert your addictions to the physical realm into energy.  They are slaves to their masters, and are little spiritual blobs.

 

5:  These spirits hang on you, weighing you down.  On two different occasions during the most trying points in my life, I was on my knees pleading for guidance, this was not of my conscious doing mind you, I stood up and looked to the ground, and could see all these little spirits clinging to my sails.  A spiritual energy blasted out of my eyes just like that big metal machine in the Thor movie, blasting these parasitic spirits and shrinking them to nothing.  I literally heard them crying as a group once they were removed from my soul.  Right after this process was completed I felt what I can only describe as a tube, or tunnel, joining my mind with the sinless one, which lasted several hours.

 

6:  I have learned that all spiritual entities contain a moral signature that can be used to create a firewall and encryption tunnels.

 

7:  I experienced a file upload from my mind into the spirit realm.

 

8:  I have seen a tiny fragment of what exists, for me anyway, and I can only describe what I saw as a massive network.

 

I now understand and am fully on board with the soul trap/farm matrix theory.

 

Thanks, a fascinating range of experiences. I have a couple of questions, if you don't mind.  Firstly, do these experiences come to you spontaneously or do you perform any spiritual practice?  Secondly, who is the sinless one? 

[Thunderbutt]

7 hours ago, Campion said:

 

Thanks, a fascinating range of experiences. I have a couple of questions, if you don't mind.  Firstly, do these experiences come to you spontaneously or do you perform any spiritual practice?  Secondly, who is the sinless one? 

The most extreme things happen only when I'm on my knees pleading for help, coincidentally after a full repentance.  The first was during the death of my wife which took eleven days.  Then again after coming to terms with the NIH death protocol at which point I lost my mind for a week.  Then again when I came to terms with the fact that I didn't know anything about the world I live in, which I refer to being born again, because that's what it felt like.  Then again when praying for guidance over a three day fast.  Again when taking care of my mother who developed dementia.  I couldn't work and we had to camp for 6 months in an RV.  I was forced to starve myself several times for days and ran out of water many times as well.  It broke my heart to not have water for my dogs, who are my best friends.  The last time was when living in my car with my two rottweilers starving with no food.

 

The sinless one is my objective name for what I use to refer to as the Holy Spirit.  But since I'm convinced that religion is propaganda I have flushed all structured religion from my subconscious.  This is the only entity that I have ever felt that is pure.  I also refer to it as the only source of truth.