Titanic switch theory

[Occulus5]

On 5/14/2024 at 2:02 PM, RobinJ said:

The reason the media love it so much is because its about disaster, which is their favourite fear button. Add to that it killed off a load of rich people who thought they had a charmed life and you have a perfect fear story.

Cameron simply added a taboo (at the time) love story.

I have to admit the Titanic conspiracy is one of my fav conspiracy topics, that and Paul is Dead lol. I wish there were more researchers talking about Titanic, but only John Hamer has talked about beside the late Robin Gardiner. Gardiner's book is very extensive and goes into more than just talking about the switch, Morgan's involvement in exploiting the minerals mines of the African Congo in the early 1900s and how influential and powerful Morgan was and his grip over the US govt.

[Avoiceinthecrowd]

 

 

[Avoiceinthecrowd]

https://www.encyclopedia-titanica.org/titanic-centre-propeller-new-evidence.html

 

An interesting study of the engineering behind the design of the propulsion characteristics that distinguished one ship from the other. 

 

I can't recall a source but I have a memory of some report that the propeller seen on the underwater survey of the wreck indicated it's the Olympic not the Titanic resting down there. Might have been an old National Geographic magazine. 

[Avoiceinthecrowd]

I believe the ritual killing of those passengers is the reason the Carpathian ship waited before coming to the rescue. I think those in the lifeboats were relishing the moans and screams of those in the freezing waters as they luxuriated dry and warm under a clear starry night in the lifeboats. They probably knew what spectacle they would be witnessing that night. They say there was a special private mass in the first class section the evening leading up to the event.

[Grumpy Grapes]

40 minutes ago, Avoiceinthecrowd said:

 

 

In the story, there is another crash the night before, when the Titan crashes into a smaller ship at full speed in fog, splitting it in half. 

[Anti Facts Sir]

2 hours ago, Avoiceinthecrowd said:

 

 

Oh, a total coincidence of course.

 

The similarities are there because someone decided to use the fictional story as the basis for the "tragedy" 14 years later.

[Avoiceinthecrowd]

52 minutes ago, Anti Facts Sir said:

Oh, a total coincidence of course.

 

The similarities are there because someone decided to use the fictional story as the basis for the "tragedy" 14 years later.

 

As we dig deeper into the Titanic story we find that sinking ships for insurance was a common practice during that period. If I recall correctly this is what led to mandatory water lines being painted on ship hulls so you could see at a glance if they were overloaded or otherwise rigged to go down at sea.

 

They say that the period was plagued by coal strikes. Men needed work desperately but most refused to take on Titanic work. Preferred to endure hardship than going out to sea in that ship. Many in the docks rumored the ships had been switched and most were warned to shut up by shipyard goons or else. 

 

When the Olympic collided with the naval vessel she sustained irreparable damage to her keel and would list to port. It was noted by some passengers that the vessel that set off on that fateful journey was listing to port. The repairs to the Olympic were deemed too expensive so she was to become, among other things, an insurance claim under another name, the Titanic.

 

Compared wth the cost of construction they made a huge profit on the insurance settlement. For a ship deemed scrap.

 

The formal inquiry in Britain was hampered by the liner owners supplying ships to the navy as required. The underlying blackmail was if we suffer you suffer.

 

The crown stood down and made a mockery of the trials and investigation. They did not even care to know why such an accident prone captain had been put in charge of the Titanic.

 

Also it was reported that there were a few fires raging in the boiler areas as she set sail.

 

The whole story is jam packed with contradictions and this contributes to the story having a sustained interest all those years as you pointed out.

 

 

Edited May 24, 2024 by Avoiceinthecrowd

[Avoiceinthecrowd]

The song they were playing as the Titanic sank with lyrics ;

 

 

[Occulus5]

12 hours ago, Avoiceinthecrowd said:

I believe the ritual killing of those passengers is the reason the Carpathian ship waited before coming to the rescue. I think those in the lifeboats were relishing the moans and screams of those in the freezing waters as they luxuriated dry and warm under a clear starry night in the lifeboats. They probably knew what spectacle they would be witnessing that night. They say there was a special private mass in the first class section the evening leading up to the event.

Why do you think this?. So what you are saying that Arthur Rostron, the capt of the Carpathia, knew Titanic was going to sink and relished in passengers dying?. And who was attending this special private mass in the first class, I assume you mean the first class dining saloon?. Not every passenger who died was from 3rd class.

[Occulus5]

9 hours ago, Avoiceinthecrowd said:

 

As we dig deeper into the Titanic story we find that sinking ships for insurance was a common practice during that period. If I recall correctly this is what led to mandatory water lines being painted on ship hulls so you could see at a glance if they were overloaded or otherwise rigged to go down at sea.

 

They say that the period was plagued by coal strikes. Men needed work desperately but most refused to take on Titanic work. Preferred to endure hardship than going out to sea in that ship. Many in the docks rumored the ships had been switched and most were warned to shut up by shipyard goons or else. 

 

When the Olympic collided with the naval vessel she sustained irreparable damage to her keel and would list to port. It was noted by some passengers that the vessel that set off on that fateful journey was listing to port. The repairs to the Olympic were deemed too expensive so she was to become, among other things, an insurance claim under another name, the Titanic.

 

Compared wth the cost of construction they made a huge profit on the insurance settlement. For a ship deemed scrap.

 

The formal inquiry in Britain was hampered by the liner owners supplying ships to the navy as required. The underlying blackmail was if we suffer you suffer.

 

The crown stood down and made a mockery of the trials and investigation. They did not even care to know why such an accident prone captain had been put in charge of the Titanic.

 

Also it was reported that there were a few fires raging in the boiler areas as she set sail.

 

The whole story is jam packed with contradictions and this contributes to the story having a sustained interest all those years as you pointed out.

 

 

This is the problem when it comes to things you state here. Titanic historians and switch debunkers alike state the coal strike ended before Titanic's maiden voyage, so there was nothing odd about Titanic being allowed to sail out of England simply because there was no longer a coal strike, and so vessels where now allowed to leave port. Whether this is true or not I don't know, it depends on the source of the information.

 

Same goes for the Hawke collusion. Everytime I mention the collision with Olympic and Hawke and mention that Olympic's keel and propeller shaft was bent and twisted I get  told that Hawke never penetrated that deep into the side, it only rammed about 7 ft in and never touched the keel. They will also argue that many ships with far worse damage have been repaired and have gone back in service.

 

The insurance. Everytime the insurance scam is brought up and the claim that Titanic (Olympic) was over insured they state that she was under insured.

 

[Grumpy Grapes]

15 hours ago, Grumpy Grapes said:

In the story, there is another crash the night before, when the Titan crashes into a smaller ship at full speed in fog, splitting it in half. 

 

"Titanic’s sister ship, Olympic (1911), collided with HMS Hawke off the Isle of Wight on 20 September 1911.

"The vessels were running parallel to each other on the Solent when Olympic suddenly turned to starboard, taking the cruiser’s commander—W.F. Blunt—by surprise. Hawke nearly capsized after knifing into the White Star liner, carving a pair of large holes into her hull above and below the waterline. Two of Olympic’s watertight compartments flooded, but the liner was able to return to Southampton under her own power. Hawke lost her bow in the incident, but returned to service after repairs. There were no significant casualties on either ship.

 

"The Royal Navy blamed Olympic for the collision, claiming at an inquiry that the liner’s abrupt turn, combined with her massive displacement, created a situation that pulled Hawke into her side. White Star countered that their vessel was blameless, since Olympic was under the direct control of a harbor pilot, not her highly experienced master—Capt. Edward J. Smith—at the time of the accident. Hawke and her captain were later found to be not at fault."

Edited May 24, 2024 by Grumpy Grapes

[Avoiceinthecrowd]

4 hours ago, Occulus5 said:

Why do you think this?. So what you are saying that Arthur Rostron, the capt of the Carpathia, knew Titanic was going to sink and relished in passengers dying?. And who was attending this special private mass in the first class, I assume you mean the first class dining saloon?. Not every passenger who died was from 3rd class.

 

I would like if you would tell us what you know about those rescued people that makes you think that most did not have foreknowledge of what was to come at open sea that night.

 

Why do you think the Carpathian crew are above suspicion?

 

Have you read the inquiry testimonials to assess the chronic memory losses and contradictions?

 

Would people without foreknowledge explain the night in question as if they are hiding something or under some form of coersion.

 

And where did all those lucky survivors go? It's like they just walked off the face of the earth for the decades that followed.

[Avoiceinthecrowd]

4 hours ago, Occulus5 said:

This is the problem when it comes to things you state here. Titanic historians and switch debunkers alike state the coal strike ended before Titanic's maiden voyage, so there was nothing odd about Titanic being allowed to sail out of England simply because there was no longer a coal strike, and so vessels where now allowed to leave port. Whether this is true or not I don't know, it depends on the source of the information.

 

Same goes for the Hawke collusion. Everytime I mention the collision with Olympic and Hawke and mention that Olympic's keel and propeller shaft was bent and twisted I get  told that Hawke never penetrated that deep into the side, it only rammed about 7 ft in and never touched the keel. They will also argue that many ships with far worse damage have been repaired and have gone back in service.

 

The insurance. Everytime the insurance scam is brought up and the claim that Titanic (Olympic) was over insured they state that she was under insured.

 

 

Frankly I don't see that as a problem. I would actually be surprised if they failed to confuse and misdirect to cover up the truth. 

 

How would the public react to news that the survivors and many were there to view a scene of carnage they knew was going to happen? I would not hold my breath waiting for such news to go mainstream.

 

The whole story has a distinctive stench of fabrication in a mediatically sanitized context. Something deep and disturbing is clumsily being covered up.

[Avoiceinthecrowd]

Radio was big in those days and many young survivors would have lived into the age of television yet, to my knowledge on this question, which I like to think is considerable compared to the average Joe, there is a conspicuous absence of mediacized anecdotal evidence recounted by those survivors describing the scenery and what they heard from those soaking in freezing waters after the ship vanished under the water.

 

This spectacle should have haunted survivors and the memory hardly bearable. Most, I'd expect, would have felt compelled to reach out and speak out.

 

Instead it's like the survivors are unable to express empathy convincingly. 

[Avoiceinthecrowd]

A passing thought on the lyrics to the tune the orchestra was playing as she went down. Why did they chose a song with a theme of getting closer, nearer to God if everyone was expected to be saved? One would think they would sing of courage and hope for a prompt rescue. How could they know the rescue would come too late for so many? Why aren't the musicians scrambling to get on lifeboats? Why did they just give up?

[Occulus5]

5 hours ago, Avoiceinthecrowd said:

Radio was big in those days and many young survivors would have lived into the age of television yet, to my knowledge on this question, which I like to think is considerable compared to the average Joe, there is a conspicuous absence of mediacized anecdotal evidence recounted by those survivors describing the scenery and what they heard from those soaking in freezing waters after the ship vanished under the water.

 

This spectacle should have haunted survivors and the memory hardly bearable. Most, I'd expect, would have felt compelled to reach out and speak out.

 

Instead it's like the survivors are unable to express empathy convincingly. 

There are some survivor accounts, mainly from the 1950s, 60s, 70s and 90s when those people where getting into their old age. But i do agree that there doesn't appear to be many of them recounting their stories which I find very strange. I don't know exactly how many have told their stories over the years but don't think there were many. Where are the rest of the passengers who survived telling their stories of what happened?. Around 700 survived in total included passengers and crew, but I think all we had were less than 20 people talking about what happened to the press. Were most of them warned not to say anything?. All of them are dead now, I think the last survivor was Milvina Dean.

 

I do have to wonder though if the whole event was one big staged hoax and the suvivors who recounted their stories were just "crisis actors". Not sure I believe that but that's what Miles Mathis claims.

[Occulus5]

3 hours ago, Avoiceinthecrowd said:

A passing thought on the lyrics to the tune the orchestra was playing as she went down. Why did they chose a song with a theme of getting closer, nearer to God if everyone was expected to be saved? One would think they would sing of courage and hope for a prompt rescue. How could they know the rescue would come too late for so many? Why aren't the musicians scrambling to get on lifeboats? Why did they just give up?

Interesting what you say, but if I were to ask any Titanic historian this they would say it's because the band knew at that point that alot of people would not make it off the ship. I think the band initially played a different piece of music which was more upbeat, but then once they realised things were getting worse and that they knew had no chance of survival they played "Nearer My God to Thee". There is some debate as to which version of the song was actually played contrary to what we see in James Cameron's Titanic, but it is odd why they never played something more of courage and hope. Where the band in on the planned sinking and knew the rescue had gone wrong?. I don't know.

[Anti Facts Sir]

2 hours ago, Occulus5 said:

Where the band in on the planned sinking and knew the rescue had gone wrong?. I don't know.

It's quite possible the sinking was arranged but the rescue didn't go to plan. It does seem from the Gardiner book(s) that the idea was to sail out to an agreed spot then radio for help. Titanic/Olympic gets sunk in a place not easy to check for wreckage, and everybody (or most people) get safely aboard the rescue ship.

 

So the crew/band might have been briefed to expect something, hence the lack of urgency at first and the lack of lifeboats. They didn't anticipate needing them, as the rescue ship would be there to take care of everything.

[Avoiceinthecrowd]

[Avoiceinthecrowd]

British Wreck Commissioner's Inquiry

 

Source: Titanic Inquiry Project

"The British government quickly followed suit (American inquiry started first) and ordered a formal inquiry into the loss of the Titanic. On Monday, 22 April, 1912, Sydney Buxton, President of the Board of Trade, requested the Lord Chancellor appoint a wreck commissioner to investigate the disaster.

To fill the seat of Wreck Commissioner, Lord Chancellor, Earl Loreburn, appointed Charles Bigham, Lord Merceyof Toxteth, President of the Probate, Divorce and Admiralty Division of the High Court.



Also appointed to assist Lord Mercey during the proceedings were:



All these assessors were experts in the maritime and naval fields, with emphasis in marine construction and architecture.

 

The hearings were opened in the Wreck Commissioner's Court, Royal Scottish Drill Hall, Buckingham Gate, Westminister, on 2nd May, 1912."

 

Note: parentheses content added by me for clarification.

 

AVC writes: expert at lending their credentials to the service of mischief. As plain citizens we are not expert in maritime affairs and from our study of the scant evidence made available we can see something is seriously wrong with the officially-recognized narrative of what transpired that night and the moral fibre of those orchestrating it.

 

 

Edited May 26, 2024 by Avoiceinthecrowd

[Avoiceinthecrowd]

British Wreck Commissioner's Inquiry
Day 1

Source: Titanic Inquiry Project

" The Attorney General: My Lord, before this inquiry begins I desire on behalf of His Majesty's to express our deepest sympathy with all those who have to mourn the loss of relatives or friends amongst the passengers, the officers or the crew of this ill-fated vessel. My Lord, this terrible disaster in mid-ocean, both because in mere magnitude it exceeds any calamity in the history of the mercantile marine, and also because of many of it's harrowing incidents, has in a profound and marked degree, touched the heart of the nation. Whilst not desiring to anticipate the result of this Inquiry, I cannot refrain from paying a reverent tribute of warm admiration to those whose manful devotion to duty and heroic sacrifices for the safety of others, have maintained the best traditions of the sea."

Who were these un-named persons whose manly devotions to duty and heroic sacrifices for the safety of others?

 

Those that loaded the vessel beyond it's lifeboat inventory? Those that assisted the maniacs by remaining silent and aiding in taking out a burning ship to open sea?

 

The guys with guns instructed to let only a select few have access to the lifeboats? How many lie at the bottom of the sea with bullet holes in their skulls?

This Inquiry lawyer opening the proceedings may not have been desiring to anticipate the result of the inquiry but appears at ease setting the pace. Leaving a distinct odor of predetermination.

 

Their minds were made up for them before the inquiry started.

Could the authors of this horrible and ritualistic mass murder have penned the outline of the inquiries beforehand?

 

When you play pool it's wise to plan for where the cue ball goes after you have scored your shot. Like the Patriot Act already drafted at 911.

[Avoiceinthecrowd]

From the Titanic Inquiry Project

Attorney General on day1;

"My Lord, in regard to the Inquiry I should explain to you at the outset we shall be in some difficulty in calling Witnesses before you and particularly in presenting them in the order which we should have desired, because, as your Lordship knows there is an Inquiry proceeding in the United States, and a large number of Witnesses who would otherwise be available have not yet come to this country."

AVC writes; This all means that the British public could read in the papers and hear on radio what the witnesses at the United States Inquiry had testified.

 

Meaning the British Inquiry knew what was coming and could easily make those problematic testimonials go away by threatening witnesses with whatever motivates them.

 

In other words, as far as Britain was concerned the United States Inquiry would be used as a filtration process, a sort of pre-trial.

Of course the fact the survivors were taken to a U.S. port was pivotal in determining who could go first.

 

All this could have been a part of the plan to derail the administrative machinery of the inquiries.

 

If a witness recants on his testimony presented in the U.S. while testifying in Britain later, well, the U.S. side will be affected and the previous testimony invalidated and the result is a mess.

 

As part of the plan to sink the Titanic were there planted agents onboard ready to provide false testimony at the Inquiries? Female agents assured of passage onto the lifeboats. Insiders posing as tourists?

 

Who is it said that these types leave nothing to chance?

 

 

Edited May 27, 2024 by Avoiceinthecrowd

[Occulus5]

On 5/25/2024 at 12:44 AM, Anti Facts Sir said:

It's quite possible the sinking was arranged but the rescue didn't go to plan. It does seem from the Gardiner book(s) that the idea was to sail out to an agreed spot then radio for help. Titanic/Olympic gets sunk in a place not easy to check for wreckage, and everybody (or most people) get safely aboard the rescue ship.

 

So the crew/band might have been briefed to expect something, hence the lack of urgency at first and the lack of lifeboats. They didn't anticipate needing them, as the rescue ship would be there to take care of everything.

Yes that's the general theory amongst Titanic switch theories (well only one as far as I'm aware which is John Hamer) that the pre planned sinking and rescue went wrong due to human error on the part of the wireless operators, Capt Lord and his officers, and the senior officers of Titanic. Although it's suggested that Morgan may've deliberately mislead Smith, Ismay and others involved by giving them the wrong information. The Mount Temple allegedly sailed past Titanic as she was sinking (witnessed by a doctor onboard), but for some reason Mount Temple sailed past and never helped. It's suggested that the capt knew about the planned sinking but realised the rescue hadn't gone to plan, so rather help rescue people he ordered to sail on to avoid being asked about it in the inquiry and why he happened to be there.

[Occulus5]

Violet Jessop is an interested one. She apparently was on the Olympic, survived the Titanic disaster and the Britannic sinking. The only female passenger that springs to my mind on Titanic is Margaret "Molly" Brown. I did read that some of the crew were detained at Plymouth docks after they arrived back. It's alleged Capt Smith survived and was smuggled onboard the Carpathia and was soon wisked away to the US and given a new identity so that he didn't have to give evidence at the inquiry. A few years later a seaman who knew Smith recalled meeting an elderley gentelman in Baltimore who he was sure was Smith. Then there was reports from Lima, Ohio of a man known as Silent Smith.

[SuperstarNeilC]

Avatar 3: Fire & Ash (2025)

 

Promotional artwork 

 

The “A” looks like a pyramid, with a raised capstone. - The styling of the “A” is blatantly a Freemasonic compass & square 

 

 

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Edited April 26 by SuperstarNeilC