Titanic switch theory

[Occulus5]

I think most on here have heard about the Titanic switch theory, it is one of those conspiracy theories that I have been fascinated with, almost obsessed with actually, since I came across a video of talk by John Hamer talking about it back in 2012 or thereabouts. Since then I have studied dozens of photos of Titanic and her almost identical sister ship RMS Olympic, I have watched and listened to podcasts about the switch, I've looked at the debunkers who always seem to succeed IMO into demolishing the theory, mainly because, in their opinion, that the switching would've required so many alterations in such a short space of time, and that keeping the switch a secret would've been impossible due to the amount of Harland and Wolff workers whom would've known about it and blown the whistle. Here's Mike Brady of Oceanliner Designs trying to debunk the theory:

 

 

I know the insurance scam and federal reserve act where the motives behind the switch - the latter in order to create the money to fund WW1, but does anyone think it happened?. I did hear that John Hamer is supposed to be doing a documentary about it with Gareth Icke, but I haven't heard anything about this since.

Edited April 24, 2024 by Occulus5

[Grumpy Grapes]

Some say a coal fire contributed to the sinking of the Titanic. 

 

https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/coal-fire-may-have-helped-sink-titanic-180961699/

[Occulus5]

8 hours ago, Grumpy Grapes said:

Some say a coal fire contributed to the sinking of the Titanic. 

 

https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/coal-fire-may-have-helped-sink-titanic-180961699/

Maybe the coal bunker is true or is just a cover story. But I did hear Robin Gardiner claim that the bunker fire may've been started in order to sink Titanic (ex Olympic) on her way from Belfast to Southampton, but they decided to sink her in the Atlantic as they knew back then noone would ever be able to get to the wreck. The switch theorists, which as far as I'm aware, have been only been two people - the late Gardiner and John Hamer, insist that the damage to Olympic following the Hawke collision (which according to Gardiner may've been deliberate in order to test the strength of the Olympic class vessel to be used as troop ships) caused Olympic's keel to be bent and twisted, which in their view would've been deemed a wreck. But the debunkers refute this and insist the damage was nowhere near as bad and Hawke never touched the keep and propeller shaft it was penetrated about 7 feet into the side.

[Occulus5]

I really wish John Hamer would talk more about the switch theory. I've emailed him several times about it and he is is adamant that they were switched. But sadly, from what I have seen, this evidence is lacking. He claims that not all of the transcripts of the inquiries are available onine but are held at the Bodlien library in Oxford, yet, everytime I bring this up to the debunkers and Titanic enthusiasts I just get told that they are all available online. When I ask John about evidence that Titanic was under insured and all the other things he mentions in his book he never replies back. He said he went to Beflast during his 3 years research and talked to families of descendants of the workers who told him about the switch. Where's the recorded evidence that he spoke to these people? I haven't seen any.

[Anti Facts Sir]

There does seem to be a concerted effort lately to prove the ships weren't switched. Whatever actually went down (*groan*) it was dodgy as fuck. Insurance, Federal Reserve scam....all the cover-ups and dodgy inquiries at the time. My guess is a ship was deliberately sunk out in the middle of the Atlantic, but the why is constantly being hidden from us.

[Occulus5]

20 hours ago, Anti Facts Sir said:

There does seem to be a concerted effort lately to prove the ships weren't switched. Whatever actually went down (*groan*) it was dodgy as fuck. Insurance, Federal Reserve scam....all the cover-ups and dodgy inquiries at the time. My guess is a ship was deliberately sunk out in the middle of the Atlantic, but the why is constantly being hidden from us.

Yes you are right there does seem to be a concerted effort lately to prove the ships weren't switched. There are many Titanic related channels on youtube, more than I woild expect and quite a few switch debunking videos. The interest in Titanic in the last few years or so seems to be quite big, why now I don't know. Back in 2012 with the 100th anniv there wasn't this much interest in Titanic, and the news media put out that video a few months back showing a 3D scan of the wreck. Again, why now?. And then we jad that alleged Titan sub imposion, which I've heard was a distraction and I wouldn't be surprised if it was a hoax. The design of that sub was just laughable. there was no way that thing could've get to that depth. There seems to have been some symbolism around that.

 

I have heard Miles Mathis claims the sinking was a hoax, that noone died. Unlikely theory but you never know. I did notice an interview with Eva Hart, one of the survivors in the 1980s. After the interviewer hs finished speaking she, for some reason said something along the lines of "well we all know what happened, Titanic hit an iceberg". I thought that comment was rather odd. Why would she need to say that for when we all know that's what happened?. Why was she trying to pursuade the viewer that it was an iceberg?. Maybe rumours of a switch were being talked about. According to the debunkers. the switch theory has only been around since the 1990s after Robin Gardiner published his books on the subject.

[octoplex]

17 hours ago, Occulus5 said:

Yes you are right there does seem to be a concerted effort lately to prove the ships weren't switched.

 

Have you looked at the patterns in the marble on the two ships?

This is an interesting one:

In 1995, James Cameron took a rover into the "Millionaires Suite" that was reserved for J.P. Morgan.

The marble sheets that sit either side of the fireplace in the room exactly match the marble patterns from the Olympic; not the Titanic.

 

You'll notice that Cameron uses this fireplace motif in the movie to transition between time periods. It is my feeling that he is intentionally drawing us to focus on this detail in the ship. Presumably, Cameron knows the ships were switched, but cannot state his theme overtly.

 

The argument has been made that the panels were faux-marble, and this explains the identical paneling. But there has been no documentation I have seen to evidence this, and it seems odd that faux-marble would be used in the "Millionaires Suite" on the world's most luxurious ship.

 

Additionally, even if the panels were faux-marble, they would have to be identical cuts (presumably large faux-marble sheets are cast and then cut) AND their orientation would have to match between the Titanic and Olympic. Either (allegedly-faux) panel could be orientated "up" or "down" or "back" and "front" if we accept the faux-marble explanation - and I do not). The workmen who installed the interiors would (in the faux-marble theory) have coincidentally orientated identical panels in both ships, in the same room, in the same orientation.

 

Marble panels have no "right" way up. To match between rooms, I calculate a 1 in 8 chance. Far from impossible, but very convenient. Does anyone here know more about faux marble manufacture?

 

 

One more thing: Have you looked at the dense symbolism in the Titanic interiors? I'm happy to decode it here if you're curious. Based on the architecture of the interior, the entire ship appears to be a Freemasonic temple; presumably designed for the precise purpose of the ritual killing of its passengers. The ship is full of iconography suggesting this purpose.

 

Interesting floor in the Titanic (Olympic) here;  what does it remind you of?

 

 

And another interesting one here. Noticing a theme?

 

 

Do the patterns on the ceiling in the Titanic pictured below remind anyone of the obfuscated patterns in the Aldenham School library, that turned out to be a Freemason cipher? Note also: the octagonal pillars.

 

 

There's that diamond again, below, on the right-hand wall. And again, that floor pattern recalls something...

 

 

Just the tip of the iceberg, and random examples I dug up in a few minutes. There is much more to decode here. Their symbolism will be their downfall.

Edited May 2, 2024 by octoplex
fixed spelling

[Occulus5]

Very interesting what you said there. Yes I have heard about the marble fireplace on the wreck having been (allegedly) identical to the one in photos of Olympic. However, I haven't yet seen any evidence it shows the same marble. I'm not sure which photo is meant to be from Olympic, though I have seen one photo but they don't look the same. As for what you said about the possbility of James Cameron highlighting the marble fireplace in Titanic I haven't heard that one before, maybe that's what he was trying to show the audience. Maybe there is no wreck there at all. I've heard from John Hamer that Cameron was made a 33rd degree mason during the Academy Awards after he won best picture for Titanic, but where John got this information from about this I do not know. I take alot of things he says with a pinch of salt tbh. I've brought the marble up with the debunkers, but they always insist the fireplaces on the wreck and in photos from Olympic's parlor suit fireplace don't match. Maybe I'm looking at the wrong photos. Both the late Robin Gardiner and John Hamer mentioned the marble fire surrounds claiming the wreck firesurround matches that of Olympic's marble fireplace.

 

Never thought much about the freemasonic ritual connection about the sinking, but I've sometimes wondered about it. Yes those features of the ship do seem masonic. If this was a masonic ritual then the sinking of Titanic and killing all those people must've been planned years in advance, and if so then the insurance scam and federal reserve act angle would be irelevant wouldn't it?. I don't think black and white checkerboard tiled flooring really proves a freemasonic connection though. I see tiled flooring like that all the time. It is interesting to note that there is a constant theme used in James Cameron's films, every film uses the same blue-ish look to it in some way. It's in Terminator with the blue tintish look and the blue lighting when the Terminator and Reese arrive, we see it in True Lies, in the Abyss (not surprisingly I suppose lol) and it's in Titanic. I wonder what the meaning of this could be?. It's also interesting that the Titanic museum looks very pyramidal in design, and I find it quite creepy looking. Why the hell hasn't John Hamer mentioned any of this?. He seems to be more interested in plugging his latest book.

 

 

[octoplex]

1 hour ago, Occulus5 said:

I've heard from John Hamer that Cameron was made a 33rd degree mason during the Academy Awards after he won best picture for Titanic...

 

Something happened to James Cameron after Titanic, but I suspect he was threatened by the Freemasons. A careful viewing of his movie, Titanic, reveals a level of subtext and set-design that expose the Freemasonic-royal cult. There are even some lines in the movie that reference royal-elite pedophilia.

 

My best guess is that Cameron's wreck-dive satisfied him that the official narrative was fake.

 

The movie Titanic appears, superficially, to tell the 'official' story, but it hides its deeper themes: Not least the issue of the fireplace in JP Morgan's room on the ship.

 

Quote

If this was a masonic ritual then the sinking of Titanic and killing all those people must've been planned years in advance, and if so then the insurance scam and federal reserve act angle would be irrelevant wouldn't it?

 

The insurance-scam and Federal-Reserve-Act were, presumably, additional-'benefits' to the Freemasonic ritual-sacrifice. The sinking of the Titanic likely served multiple-functions for the Freemason-royal-thug-club.

 

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I don't think black and white checkerboard tiled flooring really proves a freemasonic connection though. I see tiled flooring like that all the time.

 

In identifying Freemasonic architecture, it's useful to look for 'chords'. As you mention, checkerboard-flooring alone is not definitive, but when we find it in conjunction with at least two other known Freemasonic-symbols, we have a 'chord'. With at-least three symbol-matches, there is a high-likelihood of Freemasonic-cult-ownership of a territory. The Titanic was filled with this symbolism.

 

Incidentally, the reason why you see checkerboard flooring "all the time" may speak more to the disgusting-prevalence of Freemason-gangs in our culture. It can be shocking to uncover just how much territory this gang thinks they own.

 

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It is interesting to note that there is a constant theme used in James Cameron's films...

 

There are other themes in his work: Cameron definitely knows the Freemason symbol-sets and has used them to critique and expose the Freemasons. See below, in Cameron's Terminator II.

 

Here, the evil Terminator, sent to kill human-hope (in the allegorical form of the child 'John Connor'), rises-up out of the Freemasonic Checkerboard; giving us a clue to the origin of what threatens the future of our real-world:

 

 

Other movie directors have attempted to draw our attention to the Freemasonic-pedophile symbol-sets. Consider the mass of Freemasonic motifs, here, in Stanley Kubrick's The Shining.

 

To return to the sinking of the Titanic. It served multiple purposes:

 

1. It was a Freemasonic ritual-sacrifice.

2. It was a way to kill prominent-opposition to the Freemasonic 'federal reserve' etc.

3. It was an insurance scam

4. It was a mass-trauma event to scare people away from trans-atlantic travel, and to generally strike fear into the 'cattle'.

 

In short, it was a 9/11.

 

It's well known that the Freemasons (occult-pedophiles) sabotaged the inquiry [Telegraph Newspaper] into the sinking of the Titanic.

 

 

Edited May 2, 2024 by octoplex
spelling

[Occulus5]

Very interesting information here regarding the motif's and masonic symbols inside Titanic, although if this is what it is then this would mean the other Olympic class ships would also have this theme too, wouldn't they?, or was it only the Titanic (ex Olympic) that had it?. If it were only Olympic (which became the Titanic) that had this, then this would've been incorporated into the interior of the ship way before the plan the sink her?. What if Olympic had never had the "accident" with HMS Hawke and Astor, Guggenheim and Straus were never against the federal reserve act, where they planning on sinking the ship anyway?. The photo of the cafe oarisian above is actually from Olympic (or what became Olympic after the switch) in the 1920 as Olympic never had a cafe parisian until after the Titanic disaster, so why install a checkered flooring on a ship that was used for ritual purposes?. I don't think there is any evidence that Titanic (ex Olympic) had a black and white checkered flooring.

 

What has the Titanic disaster have to do with James Cameron exposing pedophiles?. I still don't see any evidence that the marble fire surround on the wreck matches the photos of Olympic's marble fire surround. The video linked above doesn't even show the marble surround, you can only see the fire. Debunkers have refuted the marble claim saying that the marble doesn't match, I've never heard anything about it being faux marble. They also insist that Straus was in favour of the federal reserve act, and they have say JP Morgan never intended to board Titanic, which tbh honest surely cannot be true as you hear Cameron himself mention the suite was intended for Morgan.

 

 

Edited May 3, 2024 by Occulus5

[octoplex]

18 hours ago, Occulus5 said:

What has the Titanic disaster have to do with James Cameron exposing pedophiles?

The criminal-gang that sunk the Titanic are the same gang that induces mass-trauma in children via their Freemason 'temples' (child-torture facilities). The symbols the pedophile-occultists (Freemasons) decorate their temples with can been seen across the interior architecture of the Titanic. These symbols are not merely 'territorial gang markings' in the traditional sense, but also serve a purpose during the trauma-based ritual-abuse  that the Freemasons perpetrate on children in our societies.

 

The intent is to traumatically-associate Freemasonic-symbols with intolerable pain in the mind of a child, and (through a standard Pavlovian system of associative-conditioning), render them subservient as adults when exposed to the same symbols.

 

James Cameron clearly knew how this Freemasonic (pedophile-occult) system functioned, because several of his movies wrestle with the Freemasons as subtext. Titanic, in particular, when viewed closely (and with a knowledge of Freemasonic traumatic-conditioning methods) reveals itself to be a brutal critique on Monarchy; The Freemasons; and ritual-abuse.

 

Regarding precisely what Freemasonic (pedophile-thug) symbolism was definitively present on the Titanic, fortunately  there has been a recent project to precisely re-create the Titantic in 3D.  In the video below, you can see that the ship is packed-full of these symbols, although many are obfuscated, and must be interpreted in the same way as, for example, the Chrysler Building was; or the Aldenham School royal-rape 'library'.

 

 

Only 'initiated' higher-ranking pedophiles (Freemasons) are supposed to be able to fully de-code these structures. If you want to discover more about this topic, a useful starting-point is to examine photographs of known-Freemason temples (abuse facilities). Note down all the recurring signs and symbols in them. Attempt to simplify the symbols.

 

Next, look at other buildings and then see if you can find multiple symbol matches. Many churches and 'religious'  buildings are, in fact, Freemason temples in disguise. There is a good reason why so many humans are utterly subservient to those in 'power', and it is because the Freemason-Royal-Pedophiles infected our communities with buildings where the most stupid and abusive members of our societies were given freedom to rape children.

 

The reason this connects with the Titanic is that the Freemasons not only abuse children, but enact mass-trauma events. The sinking of the Titanic was one such event. Their capacity for evil defies the imagination of most of humanity, and it is for precisely this reason that some of us may find it difficult to accept both the pervasiveness of the Freemason's architecture, and their engineering of so many major 'disasters'.

Edited May 4, 2024 by octoplex
spelling

[Occulus5]

James Cameron is a apparently a 33rd degree mason, and I've heard masons don't expose anything. Cameron comes across as abit of a creep if you ask me. Didn't he act strange during the filming of Titanic? I remember French and Saunders doing that comedy skit about Titanic where theymocked his trange behaviour on set where he'd go mental. Seems to me that Cameron is abit of a pyschopath and/or has undergone some kind of mind control.

 

I have to agree that the interior of Titanic does appear very masonic, but weren't all ships like this back then?. Britannic and Cunard's Lusitania, Mauretania etc would've have had the same design wouldn't they?.

 

Also, can anyone show me how the marble fire surround on the wreck matches the one on Olympic? which photos are we talking about here of Olympic's marble fire surround?. I've heard this claim before but to me the marble doesn't look the same.

Edited May 4, 2024 by Occulus5

[octoplex]

1 hour ago, Occulus5 said:

James Cameron is a apparently a 33rd degree mason

 

Interested to know what evidence is being presented for this. It would equally make sense that James Cameron was being smeared, by the Freemasons,  precisely because he exposed the Freemasons. That said, every movie Cameron has made since Titanic has been oddly terrible. As if a different director made them.

 

Avatar, for example, has some very odd one-eye symbolism in the poster campaign. Personally, I suspect that Cameron was threatened by the Freemasons after Aliens / Terminator / Titanic. I don't feel he became one of them. But, I'm interested in any evidence suggesting that he did.

 

 

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I remember French and Saunders doing that comedy skit about Titanic where theymocked his trange behaviour on set

 

French and Saunders was a BBC production. The BBC is a known pedophile-hive (Savile etc.) and many of their 'comedy' shows are designed precisely to smear those people who threaten the Freemasons (pedophile-occultists). Much of what appears on the BBC is calculated propaganda. That French and Saunders (the BBC) mocked James Cameron, is more supportive of the idea that he was exposing the establishment.

 

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I have to agree that the interior of Titanic does appear very masonic, but weren't all ships like this back then?. Britannic and Cunard's Lusitania, Mauretania etc would've have had the same design wouldn't they?.

 

Quite probably, yes. You would have to dig up photos of these ships to compare. What's perhaps difficult to digest is just how pervasive the influence of the Freemasons was. The Freemasons were/are funded by enormous establishment-interests; particularly the British Monarchy (apex-predator-pedophiles). These Freemasonic motifs likely pervade luxury ocean-liners of the era because this system of power defined much of high-society at the time.

 

To summarize: The Freemasonic system was the dominant-system of control in much of Western society. It is now in collapse. During this collapse phase we are able to marvel at two things:

 

1) The vast extent to which this collapsed Freemasonic-power-system previously controlled us, and how it marked its territory.

2) Our collective surprise and disbelief at not having noticed it before.

 

The system was designed to be largely invisible to those who were not 'initiated'. Acknowledging the system's existence, and scale, is a difficult awakening.

 

Edited May 4, 2024 by octoplex

[Grumpy Grapes]

Was Jacques Cousteau a Freemason? His underwater career echoes that of Cameron. 

[Occulus5]

There's nothing new or unusual about poster art like the Avatar poster, I see it alot in movie poster artwork, the first time I saw that was with Total Recall. I do believe many films posters are symbolising something, I don't think it's just some clever marketing gimmick that artists have latched onto. I've seen the one eye or one sided face thing all over the place. According to John Hamer, Cameron becAme mason after giving his speech at the Academy Awards in 1997 for Titanic where he proclaimed he was "king of the world". Now I'd like to know how Mr Hamer knows this, was he there? lol.

 

As for the switch itself, then can someone explain how they managed to swap around portholes on both ships:

 

Olympic during her launch on the 20th Oct 1910.

 

Olympic in the 1930s. Notice the portholes on the stern have the same spacing. Titanic's portholes were spaced out differently and stayed the same. If they switched ships then how did they change these portholes?.

 

I haven't see any evidence from any photo of either ship that convinces me there was switch.

Edited May 4, 2024 by Occulus5

[octoplex]

17 hours ago, Occulus5 said:

 I've seen the one eye or one sided face thing all over the place.

 

Frequency of occurrence does not eliminate the symbolism's probable meaning. Again, unfortunately, many people may simply be reluctant to accept the prevalence of Freemasonic (occult-pedophile) influence over our culture, and the frequency of their symbols.

 

A symbol being common does not preclude it from being a Freemasonic-motif. This is because Freemasonry was (until recently) commonly perpetrated. Now that the Freemasons are widely-known as an elaborate pedophile-ring, we are seeing a drop in this gang's overt-use of one-eye iconography. / checkerboards etc.

 

The Freemasons (pedophile-occultists) will likely revert to more obfuscated symbol-sets as their realm further collapses.

 

Again: Not all one-eye symbolism is a Freemasonic (pedophile) nod. But it is a red-flag.

 

As you know, I haven't seen compelling evidence that James Cameron is a Freemason, and so, in this case, the poster-art for Avatar was likely a studio decision.Avatar is distributed by 20th Century Fox, which is owned by Disney.

 

As we all know: Disney is a Freemason hive. A quick survey of their history, and the architecture of the parks (which include Freemason temples - Club 33, for example), makes that obvious.

 

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As for the switch itself, then can someone explain how they managed to swap around portholes on both ships:

 

Assuming that someone has not  retroactively mis-labeled these photos to cover-up the switch: The portholes could be switched by metalworkers. Can you highlight, on the photographs, precisely which portholes you're referring to? Welding was in its infancy at the time, but did exist. The same result could also likely be achieved by riveting.

 

It's difficult to make an assessment without knowing precisely which details would have needed changing. Do you have clearer photos showing where the precise metalwork in question is located?

Edited May 5, 2024 by octoplex

[Occulus5]

The area I'm referring to are the portholes located in the white area on the poop deck. Both port and starboard sides of the sterns of each other ship had the same configuration and spacing of portholes; Olympic's stern poop deck portholes were spaced differently to Titanic's, oddly though both Olympic's and Britannic's portholes were arranged the same but Titanic's portholes were spaced differently, why that is I don't know. Below is a cropped photo from Olympic's launch on the 20th Oct 1910, the second from her maiden voyage in New York on the 21st June 1911, and the other is from the early 1930s.

 

The next are of Titanic's stern portholes, one from her launch on the 31st May 1911, and the other is at Queenstown on her maiden voyage. Now, how did they change these portholes?. I have heard they removed the steel plates. The debunkers always insist it would've been impossible to change these things in the time they had, plus many other more alternations to make each ship match what they are supposed to be. Another thing needed to have been swapped would've been the pipe that was attached to the first forwardest funnel. On Olympic this pipe was shorter but was taller on Titanic.

 

I do know that when Olympic was brought into Belfast for repair that she came in with the original vent that was fitted, but when she left on the 7/8th March she now had a different vent fitted on the starboard side on top of the bridge. Titanic experts and switch debunkers insist this was nothing unusual and it was because the old vent needed replacing, but this new vent also happened to match the one on the nearly completed Titanic. Olympic's lifeboat gunwales had also been painted brown, but this appears to have been done before the Hawke incident (ie before the plan to switch the ships). Titanic's lifeboat gunwales had been painted brown as well.

Edited May 5, 2024 by Occulus5

[RobinJ]

This thread is should be retitled "how to make a mountain out of a molehill "

No wonder we get labelled as tinfoil hat conspiracy theorists. A whole load of guesswork, wanting to uncover a "secret," and boatload supposition does not make a truth.

The freemasons are now the scapegoats for all conspiracies apparently. If in doubt blame x,y, or z. Do you guys not think this is just another form of distraction, to keep you occupied and inactive, like most other entertainment....?

33 is not the top level of FM.

Heres a thought, when you have a big operation where you are building more than one of an item, you generally have a system for replicating quickly and cheaply. Of course the ships will look similar, its how you keep costs down.

[Occulus5]

41 minutes ago, RobinJ said:

This thread is should be retitled "how to make a mountain out of a molehill "

No wonder we get labelled as tinfoil hat conspiracy theorists. A whole load of guesswork, wanting to uncover a "secret," and boatload supposition does not make a truth.

The freemasons are now the scapegoats for all conspiracies apparently. If in doubt blame x,y, or z. Do you guys not think this is just another form of distraction, to keep you occupied and inactive, like most other entertainment....?

33 is not the top level of FM.

Heres a thought, when you have a big operation where you are building more than one of an item, you generally have a system for replicating quickly and cheaply. Of course the ships will look similar, its how you keep costs down.

Well some people want to get to the truth about the Titanic sinking, whether they think there was a cover up involving sinking the ship for insurance or something else. I find it interesting, though some feel it isn't relevant. People get labelled as tin foil conspiracy theorists when they bring up the Apollo moon landings as well, so what's the difference?.

[octoplex]

18 hours ago, Occulus5 said:

...oddly though both Olympic's and Britannic's portholes were arranged the same but Titanic's portholes were spaced differently, why that is I don't know.

 

I've looked into the Titanic over several years, and for what it's worth, I am satisfied that it was intentionally sunk. There are a constellation of reasons for this which will become apparent to any researcher.  I do not want to share precise-details because there has been a retroactive covering-up which continues to this day; in response to researchers' new-discoveries.

 

I do not want them to erase or alter more evidence based on my posts. I would prefer that researchers decipher what is there, and reach a private, individual, understanding. Here is one possible starting point.

 

That said, I will broadly address the topic below:

 

Was the damaged Olympic switched with the Titanic?

This is a non-dependent issue. In the sense that: the intentional-sinking hypothesis does not necessarily require the switch to have occurred. There is more than one way to sink a ship.

 

To address the portholes seen in the photographs, we have a problem: The problem is that, given sufficient man-hours and money, it would have been possible to make almost any changes necessary to match the exteriors of the two ships.

 

The Olympic collided with HMS Hawke off the Isle of Wight on September 29th, 1911. The Titanic set sail on April 10th, 1912.

 

That gave some of the wealthiest interests in the world, over six months to make any, and all changes, necessary to make the Olympic appear cosmetically similar to the Titanic.

 

Furthermore, there is apparently only one existing film of the Titanic departing, and there are oddly few photographs. Even sites that debunk the Titanic-switch-theory acknowledge that the portholes on the surviving "Olympic" were suddenly "adjusted" to match the "Titanic" shortly after the sinking.

 

The waters here are very murky.

 

Additionally, we have the problem that archival photographs may be intentionally mis-labeled, part numbers may have been wrongly recorded, and the evidence has been destroyed.

 

Destruction of evidence

The "Titanic" lies 12,500 feet beneath the ocean surface and is in total decay. The "Olympic" was scrapped in 1935 (again, odd, given the potential for it being a tourist attraction). The Titanic-switch hypothesis emerged into popular awareness in 1998 with Robin Gardiner's book Titanic: The Ship That Never Sank?

 

It was, then, 63 years after the scrapping of the Olympic and 96 years after the sinking of the Titanic that any scrutiny whatsoever was applied to the ships with regard to the switch-theory. By this point, all primary evidence had been destroyed.

 

We cannot rely on the record-keeping; photographs; and part-numbers of the same wealthy-interests that sunk the ship to provide us with a reliable basis for forensics. In summary: The primary evidence that could prove the switch-hypothesis has been destroyed.

 

Reliable witnesses
The only person of decent-character that I am aware of who has seen primary-evidence is James Cameron during his wreck-dives. Clearly, there is some dispute over Cameron's reputation, but I feel that his work on Aliens, Terminator II, and Titanic, speaks for itself. These are all very anti-establishment movies.

 

Aliens literally deals with the topic of a "queen" who is capturing and mutilating humans (including children); Terminator II speculates on what the world would be like if parents actually protected their children; and Titanic is a brutal critique of the British Monarchy and "elites"; and much more.

 

Anything is possible, but Jim Cameron is about as likely to be a Freemason as Julian Assange. Their brilliant work in uplifting humanity and denouncing entrenched-power is simply incompatible with the idea that they are against humanity. Both of them, you will find, are smeared everywhere online, for the crime of supporting us.

 

Truth hidden in plain sight
So, given the destruction of all primary evidence, apart from the (now almost completely gone) wreck of the ship, what does the only reliable witness to the scene, James Cameron, think happened?

 

That will depend on how the viewer feels after very-closely re-watching the movie Titanic (1997). Again, I don't want to say any more, because I don't want the deep-state (etc) to start editing vital bits out of Titanic.

 

I will have to leave this topic here. But leave you with this: The answers you are looking for are hidden in James Cameron's masterpiece. The movie is a codex, and has many layers. We cannot know for sure what happened to the ship, but Cameron is, in my opinion, our closest thing to a witness. His verdict is malfeasance; though he hides this message deep in the ocean of his film.

 

Thank you for an interesting discussion.

 

Edited May 6, 2024 by octoplex

[Occulus5]

Correction there. The Hawke collusion was on the 20th Sept 1911 not the 29th. And there is no footage of Titanic leaving Southampton. The only film of Titanic was taken at Belfast in February 1912 while she was still being fitted out and before the half enclosed A deck promenande deck was installed. What you said here makes some sense:

"This is a non-dependent issue. In the sense that: the intentional-sinking hypothesis does not necessarily require the switch to have occurred. There is more than one way to sink a ship."

 

That is one thing I have been often wondered myself. Maybe the switch was a cover story or red herring but they still intentionally sank Titanic for some other reason.

 

[Grumpy Grapes]

Twins have long been theme in fiction (including religion and mythology), as is confusing one twin with another. Who is the good twin and who is the bad?

 

"Analyzing “The Identical Twins Switch Places” Trope through Netflix’s Thriller Mini-Series Echoes"

 

"First, what’s this trope?

It’s two identical twins switching places for certain gain.

It seems more common (in fiction) for female twins to do this, and often there’s some sort of monetary, romantic or survival gain.

And usually, when the switch takes place, one twin is missing or dead.

Why do I hate it?

I find it quite unbelievable that two twins sound, act, dress so similarly. And I find it equally unlikely that no one around them who has been around them for years, if not all their lives, will be so clueless."

 

https://writing.pinartarhan.com/analyzing-the-identical-twins-switch-places-trope-through-netflixs-thriller-mini-series-echoes/ 

[Anti Facts Sir]

On 5/6/2024 at 1:30 PM, RobinJ said:

This thread is should be retitled "how to make a mountain out of a molehill "

Given the 112 years of regular media attention given to the apparently accidental sinking of one single ship, we could almost say the same thing about that.

[Occulus5]

16 hours ago, Anti Facts Sir said:

Given the 112 years of regular media attention given to the apparently accidental sinking of one single ship, we could almost say the same thing about that.

Actually, it's only within the last 50-60 years that the Titanic disaster has been so talked about. Prior to Walter Lord's book in the early 50s A Night to Remember and the film of the same name in 1958 most people had forgotten about it. Then came Cameron's Titanic which everyone seems to base everything about the disaster on.

[RobinJ]

Just now, Occulus5 said:

Actually, it's only within the last 50-60 years that the Titanic disaster has been so talked about. Prior to Walter Lord's book in the early 50s A Night to Remember and the film of the same name in 1958 most people had forgotten about it. Then came Cameron's Titanic which everyone seems to base everything about the disaster on.

The reason the media love it so much is because its about disaster, which is their favourite fear button. Add to that it killed off a load of rich people who thought they had a charmed life and you have a perfect fear story.

Cameron simply added a taboo (at the time) love story.