Narcissism.

[atenea]

Unless I'm wrong, it surprises me that there isn't yet a thread dedicated to Narcissism, which to me is key to the state of our current world.

 

Before I start, please read this disclaimer: Most people confuse Narcissism with having narcissistic traits, or with being 'egotistic' or 'only thinking of themselves'. True Narcissism is way, way beyond these little traits, and ONLY THOSE WHO HAVE BEEN INVOLVED WITH A NARCISSIST KNOW what they are and what they do. So, if you haven't been involved with a narcissist, I'd ask you to please be kind and respectful with what I am going to say, and ask any questions you may have. All my partners have had somehow narcissistic traits, but I have been in a relationship with a real one, a real narcissist, and I have done a lot of research and different therapy modalities to understand what had happened to me while being with the narc.

 

The narcissist is someone with no ego (ego, as defined in psychoanalysis). That means they have an empty core, so they need constant supply from others, mirroring them and having multiple masks depending on what the other person is going to give them. They not only take all they can from others, they also make sure to destroy them afterwards.

 

The narcissist also loses 90% of his memory, so the person they are today is not the same person they are tomorrow, so they can't keep promises, let alone commitments.

When you show the narc the proof of what they said or did the day before, they will say you're deluded, crazy and they'll call you a liar, and they'll think you're trying to manipulate them. They're never wrong. You are.

 

Also, the narcissist lacks love. They don't know what love is because they never had it, so whenever they bump into someone who loves them, they don't know how to handle it and they think the person is trying to manipulate them, and because of their own foreign feelings of true love, they feel threatened and try to anihilate the very person they love, in order not to feel those feelings that they cannot control. They need to always control everything.

 

They live in a permanent fantasy that they create in order to avoid themselves, and whoever represents reality and truth is seen as the enemy, as much as that same person might have been the "love of their lives" one fine day, etc.

 

So their psyche is inverted, the same as the psychopath, same as evil, same as what David Icke calls "inverted consciousness". They go against love, against truth, and against what is. And one never wins with them. They make the person they are with lose their mind, render them invisible, and one ends up unrecognizable, unable to find oneself, lost, as a zombie plodding along. The narc has a subtle way of entraining your brain in order to make you become like them, so subtly that you don't recognise who is who, they need to create an innanimate object of you in their mind, and they interact with that idealised object they've created, not with the real you. In their minds, you don't have autonomy, and when you snap out of that fantasy they have created and show the narc reality, they call you false, traitor, manipulator, etc.

 

I wonder if the narc is an adaptation to our current system, as there seems to be more and more narcissists apparently... our society is becoming more and more narcissist, it's all about AI, separation, deshumanization...

 

What experiences have you had with narcissists?

I'll be happy to answer any questions based on my experience.

 

[RobinJ]

Ive met a good few in the last 4 years in particular and it is definitely more prevelant now. I didnt recognise it at first, as I had no point of reference until very recently. Ive had other weird types of psyco around, but not that particular breed!

I think what may be happening is that things which were under the surface are now coming up. This is true of shattered persinality types etc and in particular the control freak types. I suspect this is because it is getting harder for them to hide now, especially with the big spiritual awakening thats going on. Its all coming to light. Folks are finally taking back their lives and not standing for the same crap that they may have before. Understanding our true power is a big motivator to clear out the trash and invite in the new ones who have love in their soul rather than control.

 

[BornFreeNowAgain]

Thanks for starting this thread. I must admit, around a year ago I used the search function here to see if there was much on narcissism and found very little which was a huge surprise. It is strange that something that is so prevalent, is rarely spoke about much in these types of forums. However, I think narcissism is still so misunderstood that people often don't even know they have been impacted by a narcissist or that they have one in their life and I include myself in this. 

 

Up until 3 or 4 years ago, I wasn't really aware of narcissists in my own life either. Over the last few months (even weeks), I have come to reflect on my life and have been able to see just how many narcissists I have 'attracted' in to my life. Those of us who would be considered 'empaths' are highly targeted by the narcissist, and sadly being 'givers' are a perfect match for the narcissist that loves to 'take'. In my personal situation, I was 'attracted' to a certain 'type' that quite often is a narcissist type too; not in physical attributes but in personality aspects. In many ways I was the perfect yin to the yang. 

 

I think there are many reasons that the narcissist is on the rise; social media, shifts in the way society is shaped, parenting (or lack of) and the fact that a lot of the control mechanisms on this planet align with the narcissist MO. 

 

Honestly, even up until a couple of weeks ago, I have been identifying more and more people from my past who happened to be narcissists and I am quite shocked that this is the case. 

[Kiteran]

Archetypically, narcissists are metaphorically vampires. Many of the traits of vampirism can be seen in narcissists such as:

 

Needing a willing victim

Draining the other person for blood (energy)

Asking to be let in (not forcing their way into a relationship)

Lack of care or empathy of the other person

Using their 'victim' for their own fulfilment

Can't see themselves in mirrors (because with narcissists, there is no one really there, just reflections of a human)

 

If you have suffered under a narcissists spell, what personal responsibility did you/can you take for it happening? What boundaries were or weren't in place? I've worked with narcissists and created clear boundaries on our interactions and have also suffered for many years over a 'frenemy' narcissist, where I never knew if we were friends or if I was wanted or being used. It left me very confused for years until I cut them out of my life and feel very happy for doing so. They send me the occasional text to ask how I am and share some news but I never reply, happy I have cut off their supply. 

 

I've just started this new book by Alex Lowen, so the timing is good for this thread. 

 

Alexander-Lowen-Narcissism

 

 

Edited April 16, 2024 by Kiteran

[BornFreeNowAgain]

8 hours ago, Kiteran said:

Archetypically, narcissists are metaphorically vampires. Many of the traits of vampirism can be seen in narcissists such as:

 

Needing a willing victim

Draining the other person for blood (energy)

Asking to be let in (not forcing their way into a relationship)

Lack of care or empathy of the other person

Using their 'victim' for their own fulfilment

Can't see themselves in mirrors (because with narcissists, there is no one really there, just reflections of a human)

 

If you have suffered under a narcissists spell, what personal responsibility did you/can you take for it happening? What boundaries were or weren't in place? I've worked with narcissists and created clear boundaries on our interactions and have also suffered for many years over a 'frenemy' narcissist, where I never knew if we were friends or if I was wanted or being used. It left me very confused for years until I cut them out of my life and feel very happy for doing so. They send me the occasional text to ask how I am and share some news but I never reply, happy I have cut off their supply. 

 

I've just started this new book by Alex Lowen, so the timing is good for this thread. 

 

Alexander-Lowen-Narcissism

 

 

Great post! Indeed, narcissists quite often border on evil. 

 

In my case, lust and my need for others to take the lead were the two biggest factors in how I was attracting narcissists in to my life. In relationships lust was running the show and also my propensity to feel I needed an/other to achieve things because I was always indecisive. Not only that, but due to my childhood I never really had dreams for the future, so had no navigational system really. Narcissists tend to have very clear goals and dreams, or at least targets in which to get their supply, and also they need to take control and power (all of which as an empath I have never wanted or needed). In effect I was leaving an open door to take what they wanted. The lust element also attracts those narcissists who use sex as their main weapon (and many do). 

 

What surprised me however, is how many narcissists I have had in friendships. Again, my personality traits and lack of boundaries were an open invitation. Being a people pleaser as well as an empath, idealist who saw the good in people was not exactly perfect attributes to identify the narcissist. Thankfully over the years I have done a ton of work on myself around valuing self and in fact, a massive part of that was one relationship with an ex-narcissist that changed the course of my life. I have healed the lust to a large degree and now also have very strong boundaries. I am able to identify the narcissist a lot easier and cut them off as soon as I realise. I have cut 4 out of my life over the last couple of years and no longer engage with them if they reach out. 

 

Although the relationship with one was brutal, it honestly was the best thing that could have happened to me. It took me from being a love and light idealist, to someone who now knows that true evil does indeed exist and rather than trying to have empathy for them and try to help them change, you are best to run and then run some more. Have nothing to do with them because no good can come of it. 

[RobinJ]

I don't personally believe in evil as a thing. Perhaps they were just fulfilling their role / purpose in this game. After all, what they taught you is how to deal with that particular kind of psychological disorder and how to find a route out, thereby allowing your soul massive growth.

I feel those with previously hidden mental problems will become more obvious as this change in humanity continues.

We all need to heal from the system programming, some will take longer than others but we all need to get back to our true self and detach from the system umbilical cord. 

[BornFreeNowAgain]

1 hour ago, RobinJ said:

I don't personally believe in evil as a thing. Perhaps they were just fulfilling their role / purpose in this game. After all, what they taught you is how to deal with that particular kind of psychological disorder and how to find a route out, thereby allowing your soul massive growth.

I feel those with previously hidden mental problems will become more obvious as this change in humanity continues.

We all need to heal from the system programming, some will take longer than others but we all need to get back to our true self and detach from the system umbilical cord. 

I used to think like you @RobinJ, but I am not so sure these days. None of us know what 'this' thing is we are 'living in', who knows if it is malevolent or benevolent? Don't get me wrong, I learnt so much and am glad I did. I wouldn't change what happened in any way, but did that happen SO I could learn, or did I learn IN SPITE of what was thrown at me? And I don't mean to claim victimhood here, what happened although brutal, could have been so much worse, and I got rather lucky really. As I say though, much of what happened to me, could only have happened due to my 'consent', that being having the unhealed aspects of me bringing it in to my reality. Edited to add: I am talking here about attracting a narcissist from the perspective of being an adult. I know a few people who had a narcissistic parent who had no 'choice' (at least not in terms of this Earthly existence) who were brutalised in childhood. I cannot even imagine having a narcissistic parent even though I have seen the impact in friends.  

 

I agree that we will be seeing more of the veils dropping away and we will be seeing a lot of the dark being exposed. As we enter a new astrological era, hopefully the changes in society start to assist in the creation of community driven societies rather than the top down systems we have been living through. 

Edited April 17, 2024 by BornFreeNowAgain

[RobinJ]

8 hours ago, BornFreeNowAgain said:

I used to think like you @RobinJ, but I am not so sure these days. None of us know what 'this' thing is we are 'living in', who knows if it is malevolent or benevolent? Don't get me wrong, I learnt so much and am glad I did. I wouldn't change what happened in any way, but did that happen SO I could learn, or did I learn IN SPITE of what was thrown at me? And I don't mean to claim victimhood here, what happened although brutal, could have been so much worse, and I got rather lucky really. As I say though, much of what happened to me, could only have happened due to my 'consent', that being having the unhealed aspects of me bringing it in to my reality. Edited to add: I am talking here about attracting a narcissist from the perspective of being an adult. I know a few people who had a narcissistic parent who had no 'choice' (at least not in terms of this Earthly existence) who were brutalised in childhood. I cannot even imagine having a narcissistic parent even though I have seen the impact in friends.  

 

I agree that we will be seeing more of the veils dropping away and we will be seeing a lot of the dark being exposed. As we enter a new astrological era, hopefully the changes in society start to assist in the creation of community driven societies rather than the top down systems we have been living through. 

Yes, I take your point re the learning, however, you did learn via experiencing those things. Some folks don't, they stay in abusive relationships and internalise the pain never having the courage to say no. Hence, the controller also learns nothing about their own behaviour either.

 

I would guess you learned to take back your freedom too, isn't that what this is all about really? Certainly has been for me. Learning how to truly be free from destructive emotions or situations.

[atenea]

On 4/16/2024 at 12:20 PM, BornFreeNowAgain said:

Those of us who would be considered 'empaths' are highly targeted by the narcissist, and sadly being 'givers' are a perfect match for the narcissist that loves to 'take'.

This is very true. In my experience, the narcissist attracts always people who give him one of these 3 things: narcissistic supply (attention, adulation, etc), sex, material things or services. To them, relationships are business transactions. They are incapable of positive emotions (including love, of course).

 

Empaths and givers have it all for the narc. But narcs also feel attracted to borderlines, as borderlines have strong attatchment issues and they need a "god figure" to "protect them", and the narcissist portrays this very well with their grandiosity and false self.

 

To me, it's a lot about light/darkness, the narcissist being the darkness and the empath being the light, both need each other in order to have meaning in life. The purpose of the narc is to take, and the purpose of the empath is to give.

[atenea]

17 minutes ago, RobinJ said:

Yes, I take your point re the learning, however, you did learn via experiencing those things. Some folks don't, they stay in abusive relationships and internalise the pain never having the courage to say no. Hence, the controller also learns nothing about their own behaviour either.

 

Like @BornFreeNowAgain, I'll say the same thing to you, @RobinJ, that I didn't believe in evil as a thing, until the narcissist came in my life. Example: narcissist's mother dies, and in a split second, the narcissist says: "what an inconsiderate thing of you to do mum, to die without my permission". No emotion. No empathy, nothing. Another narcissist I know left his partner for dead on a car accident, she got off the car and left her man inside without calling an ambulance or saying anything to anyone. The narcissist hurts you, makes you cry inconsolably, then asks you why you're crying, then blames you for crying, then makes him/herself the victim saying you've hurt him/her with the same thing he/she's hurt you. The worst thing is that everyone believes them, and not you. If this is not hell, I don't know what is.

 

As I said in the beginning, one has to live it to believe it. And society tends to not believe things that are too far-fetched to be believed, and so people tend to call crazy, deluded, paranoid, etc, those who are on the receiving end of the abuse.

[BornFreeNowAgain]

7 hours ago, RobinJ said:

Yes, I take your point re the learning, however, you did learn via experiencing those things. Some folks don't, they stay in abusive relationships and internalise the pain never having the courage to say no. Hence, the controller also learns nothing about their own behaviour either.

 

I would guess you learned to take back your freedom too, isn't that what this is all about really? Certainly has been for me. Learning how to truly be free from destructive emotions or situations.

One of the things I feel most fortunate about, is that I have always had the trait of humility which has helped me to always be willing to learn, to accept when I am wrong, or to know when I need to learn or grow up. Because of this I have always tried to find the lessons in experiences. Put this together with my willingness to heal and it has been a formidable force. 

 

Exactly this. All my healing, all my research about the 'Grand conspiracy' all my hard work in raising my vibration/frequency, all my dedication t manifesting were with the sole (or should it really be SOUL) purpose of becoming free. Even now, most of my day to day actions are with the purpose of finding more and more freedom. 

[BornFreeNowAgain]

7 hours ago, atenea said:

This is very true. In my experience, the narcissist attracts always people who give him one of these 3 things: narcissistic supply (attention, adulation, etc), sex, material things or services. To them, relationships are business transactions. They are incapable of positive emotions (including love, of course).

 

Empaths and givers have it all for the narc. But narcs also feel attracted to borderlines, as borderlines have strong attatchment issues and they need a "god figure" to "protect them", and the narcissist portrays this very well with their grandiosity and false self.

 

To me, it's a lot about light/darkness, the narcissist being the darkness and the empath being the light, both need each other in order to have meaning in life. The purpose of the narc is to take, and the purpose of the empath is to give.

Indeed, business transactions is a good way of describing it. It is at its core a transaction of energy. 

 

Yes, exactly on the attachment issues. My ex was quick to identify (and use what she perceived as my) attachment style for her games. She was/is a psychologist so on top of the very well oiled narcissistic tricks, she was able to add her knowledge to those skills. Another aspect that I healed through this was a common empath trait - being a rescuer. Being a 'rescuer' has meant that I have always tended to see the good in people, but it also means that you tend to overlook traits in others that should cause alarm bells. There were many red flags prior to (and during) my relationship with the ex. Part of overlooking them, were the lust elements previously stated, but also that rescuer aspect that always saw the good in people and the potential. It meant that I had very dysfunctional boundaries. 

 

Yes, I would agree with that. As you say, they 'compliment' each other perfectly on one level, and certainly in my case I can see clearly how the unhealed aspects were a perfect match for the narcissistic. From the higher perspective, perhaps we do need each other as they are almost perfect polarity aspects. Certainly in my case, it was only through the brutality of that relationship, that I was forced into saying to myself 'how did this happen, what did I do to bring this in, and how can I make sure that this never happens again'. 

[RobinJ]

46 minutes ago, BornFreeNowAgain said:

One of the things I feel most fortunate about, is that I have always had the trait of humility which has helped me to always be willing to learn, to accept when I am wrong, or to know when I need to learn or grow up. Because of this I have always tried to find the lessons in experiences. Put this together with my willingness to heal and it has been a formidable force. 

 

Exactly this. All my healing, all my research about the 'Grand conspiracy' all my hard work in raising my vibration/frequency, all my dedication t manifesting were with the sole (or should it really be SOUL) purpose of becoming free. Even now, most of my day to day actions are with the purpose of finding more and more freedom. 

Ah humility, that was a big learning curve for me. Definitly agree re this first paragraph above. I doubt many will experience true freedom as they tend to prefer to hang on to the old broken system which abuses them daily! One of the biggest lessons for me was letting go of all that bullshit. Having said that, as a personality it is in my nature anyway- not to hang on to stuff which is harmful. For many years I have been practicing hacking off old relationships of all kinds if I felt they were not good for me. Best thing I ever did. It is very liberating to be able to walk away and not look back. During covid I moved to another country based on messages I was getting in my head. Took a leap of faith in my guidance system, got rid of all my stuff, sold my properties and left with 2 suitcases!  A lot of folls were scratching their heads on that one :-)

Since then I have had some of the most amazing experiences of my life. Ive learned a ton and become a much nicer person. It just takes courage and faith in your own judgement.

[BornFreeNowAgain]

10 hours ago, atenea said:

Like @BornFreeNowAgain, I'll say the same thing to you, @RobinJ, that I didn't believe in evil as a thing, until the narcissist came in my life. Example: narcissist's mother dies, and in a split second, the narcissist says: "what an inconsiderate thing of you to do mum, to die without my permission". No emotion. No empathy, nothing. Another narcissist I know left his partner for dead on a car accident, she got off the car and left her man inside without calling an ambulance or saying anything to anyone. The narcissist hurts you, makes you cry inconsolably, then asks you why you're crying, then blames you for crying, then makes him/herself the victim saying you've hurt him/her with the same thing he/she's hurt you. The worst thing is that everyone believes them, and not you. If this is not hell, I don't know what is.

 

As I said in the beginning, one has to live it to believe it. And society tends to not believe things that are too far-fetched to be believed, and so people tend to call crazy, deluded, paranoid, etc, those who are on the receiving end of the abuse.

Yes, quite scary to realise how 'dark' some people truly are. I was talking to a fairly new friend over the last 6 months whose mum was a narcissist and the depth of 'evil' is staggering at times. And I say evil in this context because that is the word he uses himself. One of my ex-partners mum is a narcissist and again, some of the brutality bestowed on my ex was horrific and for no other reason than power, control, and a fragile ego. 

 

So true. After all we see this in the 'masses' who are too 'weak' to face reality about what is happening in the World, who is running it, and what they are willing to do to keep control. People would prefer to pretend that this is not possible so they can stay in their 'comfort zone'. Before my experience with the ex-narcissist I was lucky that I had not experienced the truly dark aspects of it, even though now I can see that I have had many narcissists in my life. But this one was a brutal awakening not just to the depth of what the narcissist is willing to do (and lie about despite the truth being obvious), but also what they will do when exposed. The Amber Heard/Johnny Depp trial was illuminating for many (and me tbh) because it so brilliantly showed the narcissistic game, but how it works. It works generally because the people that they do their most damage to, are people that have love for them or are attached to them, or perhaps have some ties to them like lust in my case and likely the same for Depp. Depp and Amber's sister were able to be controlled and manipulated because they wanted to see the good in her, they had likely fallen for the fake crying when exposed or victim playing that is common. The narcissist can believe they are brilliant, but it works only because of the bond. What we saw during the trial, is that none of it is really that sophisticated. If you are not emotionally attached, the manipulation, the lies, the deceit, the lack of logic is so obvious. 

Edited April 18, 2024 by BornFreeNowAgain

[DaleP]

11 hours ago, BornFreeNowAgain said:

Yes, quite scary to realise how 'dark' some people truly are. I was talking to a fairly new friend over the last 6 months whose mum was a narcissist and the depth of 'evil' is staggering at times. And I say evil in this context because that is the word he uses himself. One of my ex-partners mum is a narcissist and again, some of the brutality bestowed on my ex was horrific and for no other reason than power, control, and a fragile ego. 

 

So true. After all we see this in the 'masses' who are too 'weak' to face reality about what is happening in the World, who is running it, and what they are willing to do to keep control. People would prefer to pretend that this is not possible so they can stay in their 'comfort zone'. Before my experience with the ex-narcissist I was lucky that I had not experienced the truly dark aspects of it, even though now I can see that I have had many narcissists in my life. But this one was a brutal awakening not just to the depth of what the narcissist is willing to do (and lie about despite the truth being obvious), but also what they will do when exposed. The Amber Heard/Johnny Depp trial was illuminating for many (and me tbh) because it so brilliantly showed the narcissistic game, but how it works. It works generally because the people that they do their most damage to, are people that have love for them or are attached to them, or perhaps have some ties to them like lust in my case and likely the same for Depp. Depp and Amber's sister were able to be controlled and manipulated because they wanted to see the good in her, they had likely fallen for the fake crying when exposed or victim playing that is common. The narcissist can believe they are brilliant, but it works only because of the bond. What we saw during the trial, is that none of it is really that sophisticated. If you are not emotionally attached, the manipulation, the lies, the deceit, the lack of logic is so obvious. 

 

Under the facade of confidence & power, there is a fragile ego as you say.

It's all deception.

There was a narc thread in the previous forum and we discussed in depths since we have many empath members.

The only way to remain healthy is to 1. recognise the signs quickly, 2. place boundary or cut the tie. And quite often it's the parents. There is no way about it.

 

[RobinJ]

11 hours ago, BornFreeNowAgain said:

Yes, quite scary to realise how 'dark' some people truly are. I was talking to a fairly new friend over the last 6 months whose mum was a narcissist and the depth of 'evil' is staggering at times. And I say evil in this context because that is the word he uses himself. One of my ex-partners mum is a narcissist and again, some of the brutality bestowed on my ex was horrific and for no other reason than power, control, and a fragile ego. 

 

So true. After all we see this in the 'masses' who are too 'weak' to face reality about what is happening in the World, who is running it, and what they are willing to do to keep control. People would prefer to pretend that this is not possible so they can stay in their 'comfort zone'. Before my experience with the ex-narcissist I was lucky that I had not experienced the truly dark aspects of it, even though now I can see that I have had many narcissists in my life. But this one was a brutal awakening not just to the depth of what the narcissist is willing to do (and lie about despite the truth being obvious), but also what they will do when exposed. The Amber Heard/Johnny Depp trial was illuminating for many (and me tbh) because it so brilliantly showed the narcissistic game, but how it works. It works generally because the people that they do their most damage to, are people that have love for them or are attached to them, or perhaps have some ties to them like lust in my case and likely the same for Depp. Depp and Amber's sister were able to be controlled and manipulated because they wanted to see the good in her, they had likely fallen for the fake crying when exposed or victim playing that is common. The narcissist can believe they are brilliant, but it works only because of the bond. What we saw during the trial, is that none of it is really that sophisticated. If you are not emotionally attached, the manipulation, the lies, the deceit, the lack of logic is so obvious. 

Oh the crying! Yes. Definitely recognise that. The thing is now I am more open i do cry more too but its linked to the love I feel or, more precisely, a connection to it. I can feel even in certain songs or entertainment now, the emotion behind it if its real or genuine.

But the narc uses crying as an advantage or a tool to rope you in to their game of pretend empathy. 

I'm often wary of those who label themselves empaths because many are still stuck in ego. I try not to label myself as anything, I just describe how things effect me and if that helps people open themselves up and disconnect, then I will share as much as they need so they can start to shed the fear of being open.

Sometimes it can get thrown back at you, but watching truth in action is a powerful motivator and I'm tough enough to handle the control freaks.

People always reveal their true self in the end, you just need to be patient and pay attention.

[atenea]

On 4/17/2024 at 11:57 PM, BornFreeNowAgain said:

She was/is a psychologist so on top of the very well oiled narcissistic tricks, she was able to add her knowledge to those skills. Another aspect that I healed through this was a common empath trait - being a rescuer.

I also relate.

 

Also, the greatest narcissists are mentors, psychologists, doctors, teachers, gurus... and public figures who are meant to 'lead' others somehow. Which makes it even worse for many reasons.

 

And yes, as empaths/light bearers, we have to learn to work on those boundaries, and in my view it is precisely thanks to experiencing the narcissist that we get the chance to truly change that. I can say today that I have achieved it. We wouldn't have changed if it wasn't for them in our lives. The narc is different, though, they don't change by being in the presence of our love, on the contrary, they become even worse.

[atenea]

On 4/18/2024 at 2:16 AM, BornFreeNowAgain said:

Yes, quite scary to realise how 'dark' some people truly are.

 

So true. After all we see this in the 'masses' who are too 'weak' to face reality about what is happening in the World, who is running it, and what they are willing to do to keep control.

 

The Amber Heard/Johnny Depp trial was illuminating for many (and me tbh) because it so brilliantly showed the narcissistic game, but how it works.

Agreed.

[BornFreeNowAgain]

On 4/19/2024 at 9:43 PM, atenea said:

I also relate.

 

Also, the greatest narcissists are mentors, psychologists, doctors, teachers, gurus... and public figures who are meant to 'lead' others somehow. Which makes it even worse for many reasons.

 

And yes, as empaths/light bearers, we have to learn to work on those boundaries, and in my view it is precisely thanks to experiencing the narcissist that we get the chance to truly change that. I can say today that I have achieved it. We wouldn't have changed if it wasn't for them in our lives. The narc is different, though, they don't change by being in the presence of our love, on the contrary, they become even worse.

Yes, totally agree. Only certain 'personalities' crave to be leaders. 

 

Absolutely; boundaries are really important for both sides. Those not putting in boundaries with loved ones really rob that person of having to learn, grow up, take responsibility for themselves and their actions and many other possible scenario's. I would not have changed had it not being for the 'brutality' of the relationship I had with the narcissist. The only way that I knew I could protect myself in the future was to heal those aspects that brought her into my life, kept her there, and in many ways consented to much of it. 

 

So true on the 'become even worse' part. My ex seemed to have been previously 'held in place' by co-dependent relationships with her ex and her family that in many ways kept her 'in check' to a degree. But when we got together, she seemed to find a freedom she had never had which unleashed an absolute monster, with no chains or restrictions. She also started to easily 'manifest' things which I think was her 'using'  my energy/light (I have been good at manifesting for a while now and that is getting stronger each year as I raise my vibration). So what happened is, she suddenly had this extra 'power' (along with freedom) that unleashed a beast. I am pretty sure that when things ended she 'threw me under the bus' with her family and her ex, and twisted the story so she was the victim to be able to pick up her life where she had left it prior to us. I got lucky because thankfully, I figured her out relatively quickly, and called her out on it too. One day when she realised I had her figured out, she went silent for 5-10 minutes before she told me her 'excuses' and after a long and elaborate story (like a scene from a movie) she ended with 'I feel like I am such a horrible person' accompanied by 'sobbing'. Instead of me saying 'of course you aren't, mistakes happen', I said 'yes, you are'  and she got out of the car and stormed off. That relationship taught me so much. 

[DaleP]

8 hours ago, BornFreeNowAgain said:

Yes, totally agree. Only certain 'personalities' crave to be leaders. 

 

Absolutely; boundaries are really important for both sides. Those not putting in boundaries with loved ones really rob that person of having to learn, grow up, take responsibility for themselves and their actions and many other possible scenario's. I would not have changed had it not being for the 'brutality' of the relationship I had with the narcissist. The only way that I knew I could protect myself in the future was to heal those aspects that brought her into my life, kept her there, and in many ways consented to much of it. 

 

So true on the 'become even worse' part. My ex seemed to have been previously 'held in place' by co-dependent relationships with her ex and her family that in many ways kept her 'in check' to a degree. But when we got together, she seemed to find a freedom she had never had which unleashed an absolute monster, with no chains or restrictions. She also started to easily 'manifest' things which I think was her 'using'  my energy/light (I have been good at manifesting for a while now and that is getting stronger each year as I raise my vibration). So what happened is, she suddenly had this extra 'power' (along with freedom) that unleashed a beast. I am pretty sure that when things ended she 'threw me under the bus' with her family and her ex, and twisted the story so she was the victim to be able to pick up her life where she had left it prior to us. I got lucky because thankfully, I figured her out relatively quickly, and called her out on it too. One day when she realised I had her figured out, she went silent for 5-10 minutes before she told me her 'excuses' and after a long and elaborate story (like a scene from a movie) she ended with 'I feel like I am such a horrible person' accompanied by 'sobbing'. Instead of me saying 'of course you aren't, mistakes happen', I said 'yes, you are'  and she got out of the car and stormed off. That relationship taught me so much. 

 

RESPECT! Tell the truth.

[BornFreeNowAgain]

9 hours ago, DaleP said:

 

RESPECT! Tell the truth.

It seems for me, there is no other way . I seem to now have an in-built mechanism that does not allow for not being truthful. It is why I struggled in my last job with all the politics that comes with big organisation's and the hierarchies. Don't get me wrong, I was good at my job, but the meetings, supervision, the monitoring and the 'performance review' stuff were tough for me as I speak my mind no matter the costs and I also stand up for what is right. Sometimes you have to fight for others, in my case clients and consumers who often didn't even know there is a fight as the organisation tries to change something that will impact on the quality of the services etc. David Icke was right, you 'have to do what is right, not for me, but what is right'. 

[DaleP]

15 hours ago, BornFreeNowAgain said:

It seems for me, there is no other way . I seem to now have an in-built mechanism that does not allow for not being truthful. It is why I struggled in my last job with all the politics that comes with big organisation's and the hierarchies. Don't get me wrong, I was good at my job, but the meetings, supervision, the monitoring and the 'performance review' stuff were tough for me as I speak my mind no matter the costs and I also stand up for what is right. Sometimes you have to fight for others, in my case clients and consumers who often didn't even know there is a fight as the organisation tries to change something that will impact on the quality of the services etc. David Icke was right, you 'have to do what is right, not for me, but what is right'. 

 

Problem is, many people don't know what is the right things to do. According to which standard etc....

[BornFreeNowAgain]

4 hours ago, DaleP said:

 

Problem is, many people don't know what is the right things to do. According to which standard etc....

Yeah true. A lot of people don't have that 'inner guidance system' which is why they are so easily led and controlled of course. People like us on this forum simply just 'know' or 'feel' what is right and we also look out at the World an instinctively see things that we know are not right where others don't see a problem. In a way this all came to a head during the scamdemic of course, where a lot of people saw no problem with stickers on the floor measuring distances and other ridiculous things, and for us, we saw it all as oppression straight away. Intuition helps of course. 

[DaleP]

5 minutes ago, BornFreeNowAgain said:

Yeah true. A lot of people don't have that 'inner guidance system' which is why they are so easily led and controlled of course. People like us on this forum simply just 'know' or 'feel' what is right and we also look out at the World an instinctively see things that we know are not right where others don't see a problem. In a way this all came to a head during the scamdemic of course, where a lot of people saw no problem with stickers on the floor measuring distances and other ridiculous things, and for us, we saw it all as oppression straight away. Intuition helps of course. 

 

Danny sums up nicely on your point.

https://forum.davidicke.com/index.php?/topic/13250-the-war-on-awakening-technological-imposition-on-kundalini-energy-dna-endocrine-system-/&do=findComment&comment=541256

 

[BornFreeNowAgain]

On 4/18/2024 at 11:42 PM, RobinJ said:

Oh the crying! Yes. Definitely recognise that. The thing is now I am more open i do cry more too but its linked to the love I feel or, more precisely, a connection to it. I can feel even in certain songs or entertainment now, the emotion behind it if its real or genuine.

But the narc uses crying as an advantage or a tool to rope you in to their game of pretend empathy. 

I'm often wary of those who label themselves empaths because many are still stuck in ego. I try not to label myself as anything, I just describe how things effect me and if that helps people open themselves up and disconnect, then I will share as much as they need so they can start to shed the fear of being open.

Sometimes it can get thrown back at you, but watching truth in action is a powerful motivator and I'm tough enough to handle the control freaks.

People always reveal their true self in the end, you just need to be patient and pay attention.

Yes, I relate to the being more open now and the way tears can flow easily. About a year ago I watched a clip on YouTube of a girl playing piano, and burst in to tears, what was weird is that I was simultaneously crying at both the beauty in the World and at the destruction. I had never really experienced anything like it for being caught in that perfect balance point. And these tears were deep, gut wrenching ones that lasted for about 5 minutes straight. 

 

They sure do. Ahhh intellectual empathy is what I term a lot of it and having been saying this for years. Having worked in an industry where 'empathy' is sort of a prerequisite you see those that have genuine empathy, and those that only have intellectual empathy (saying the right things but with no feeling, care or integrity behind it and at times simultaneously rolling their eyes as they 'offer support'). Now I have come to see empathy as potentially toxic. Compassion is a much higher perspective to offer support to others that does not involve as much of self as empathy. 

 

I agree on labels to a degree. I think they can be problematic for sure. However, at times, I use them because they are the easiest way to convey something to another without having to write an essay (especially when online of course).